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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's IV
heartache101
♀ Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 12:36 PM, May 4th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Listeningclosely

Thank You for your response.


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3140 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
DaniGirl
♀ Member
Member # 28436
Default  Posted: 2:03 PM, May 4th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why is my WH so angry? Why does he want to just divorce and not try to work on stuff?Only good would come from it? he just says to my face "I WANT NOTHING MORE to do with you." There is no harm in trying. What are your reasons for not even attempting an R if the BS really wants to?

[This message edited by DaniGirl at 2:05 PM, May 4th (Tuesday)]


Me:BW (35)Him: WH(36) 3boys 8,5,1
Married 13 Years False R- Now Divorced!!He's with Skank #3 a "dancer"
Read my story "Merry Christmas, Douchebag"
http://www.amazon.com/Merry-Christmas-Douchebag-ebook/dp/B006OIA2IW/ref=sr_1_1?

Posts: 346 | Registered: May 2010
tennispro4
♀ Member
Member # 27842
Default  Posted: 2:04 PM, May 4th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok, I am officially desperate.

I just got this email from WH:

Given my feelings and actions, I think it is clear my heart is not set on working on us. I think I am way too far past that point. Honestly, I think I was past that point a couple of years ago. I wish I handled things differently and addressed things sooner or not proposed/bought a house when I did. I think I just thought those were the next natural steps. I NEVER meant to hurt you. EVER. But I cant stay in this because I feel guilty…that’s not a reason.

Moving forward, I would like to figure out what to do about practical things such as the house, taxes, money, etc. I have no problem giving you time for all of this but I do think we need to start discussing those things. I never have money and you cant afford that house on its own. Putting on the market now would be better because people buy this time of year.

Also, I would like to discuss the money withdraws. I obviously have no problem giving you everything but in order for me not to be completely broke, I think we need to make a plan.

When can we talk about those thing?

I obviously am still interested in therapy.

He's interested in therapy to "ease the transition."

I wrote back:

You are taking the easy way out. Your heart is not set on working on us because you are too wrapped up in your AFFAIR. I did not want to talk about your email because I am not allowing you to re-write our history together, the whole point of your email was to try to convince me that our whole relationship was a sham. You said you wished you could turn back time to when (you thought) our relationship was happy, but when we have the opportunity to do that you won’t even try, because it is harder to work on things then to cut and run.
You wanted a 3rd party to asses our relationship and tell you whether it was worth working on or not, all the indications I got from her were that it was worth working on but you still won’t believe it. Did she tell you differently last week, because she didn’t tell me differently?

I am appalled that you are trying to tell me that our marriage is over through email in the middle of the day, and I will not continue this conversation through email.

He said sorry for emailing, but he can't go on in limbo, we both deserve better and he would stop emailing. He didn't bring up when he allegedly wants to talk about things.

I know he's deep in the fog and believes his re-writing, but is there any, even the slightest bit of hope? Can a WS be this far gone and come back? Or do I just need to accept that it's over?


I don't know if I'll make it, but watch how good I'll fake it

Posts: 1140 | Registered: Mar 2010
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 2:10 PM, May 4th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DaniGirl -

What are your reasons for not even attempting an R if the BS really wants to?

Your WH has chosen not to face his own flaws and instead remain in the fantasy land he created around his A. The anger comes form anyone or anything that tries to shine a light of truth on the lies he has convinced himself to believe.

The only solution I've seen work in this case is consequences for actions. Basically, a 180 at a minimum and D papers if the 180 doesn't get the WS to move forward. One of two outcomes happen. The severity of a D is enough to snap the fog and get the WS to see what they are doing. In those cases, R is possible. The other outcome is they allow the D process to go through. In those cases, it's unlikely anything would have saved the M in the first place.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
DaniGirl
♀ Member
Member # 28436
Default  Posted: 2:11 PM, May 4th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow, tennis pro, I am right there with you! Those emails could have been written by me and my WH! I want mine back too! Good luck!!


Me:BW (35)Him: WH(36) 3boys 8,5,1
Married 13 Years False R- Now Divorced!!He's with Skank #3 a "dancer"
Read my story "Merry Christmas, Douchebag"
http://www.amazon.com/Merry-Christmas-Douchebag-ebook/dp/B006OIA2IW/ref=sr_1_1?

Posts: 346 | Registered: May 2010
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 2:15 PM, May 4th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tennispro -

I know he's deep in the fog and believes his re-writing, but is there any, even the slightest bit of hope? Can a WS be this far gone and come back? Or do I just need to accept that it's over?

The response I gave to DaniGirl above would apply in your case too. Different WS's, same state. Until they are confronted with an either/or choice, things remain stuck.

I made the decision within 48 hours of D-Day to commit to the process of R (though I was really unsteady for quite some time). But I did so because my BW has always been a woman of conviction. When she told me I would make the call - either counselor or attorney - I knew she meant it. It was that confrontation that forced me to face the situation and make my choice.

You need to do the same thing. If you call him on it and file for D, he will either wake up and change his course or let the D go through. Either way, it will be the outcome that was likely to happen anyway.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 2:34 PM, May 4th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tennispro4,

Again, I said those same types of things to my BW. I told her a few different times that I wanted a D. I was re-writing the M history, I was going to give her everything and just walk away. I thought she would take me up on it after what I had done to her.

DaniGirl,

I don't remember getting outwardly angry, but internally I was pissed that my BW was not going along with me on wanting a D. I wanted a fantasy that felt very real at the time.

Your choices are to let your WH continue to stay in their fog, let them gas-light and blame-shift, let them try to convince themselves (and you) that they are horrible and not worth keeping, or you can put your foot down and not take their crap.

I put my BW through what you are going through for two years. Once she REALLY put her foot down (REALLY, as in I finally believed her) I fell off my fence and started coming out of my fog. When she put her foot down, she was at that point of being willing to do what she needed to do. Know what that was? She was going to leave me and leave the kids with me too. She wasn't going to let me escape into my fantasyland. She was going to have the life she deserved instead of letting me have the life I thought I deserved. That was a reality check. And once I got that slap in the face I started seeing how crazy I was being and how much of a fantasy everything was in regards to the A and the OW.

I don't know if any of this helps, but it just seems your WH's are doing what I did to my BW and I don't like being reminded of it...

As HUFI would say, Be Strong


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6047 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
DaniGirl
♀ Member
Member # 28436
Default  Posted: 3:49 PM, May 4th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Okay so my WH and I are going to a joint counceling session next week. I am sure he is looking at it as an "exit interview" and I wam going to make one last pitch for reconcilliation.

So to you WS, how do i best go about this? i really want to say "look i made a committment to you and I will no longer take your marriage rewriting and your gaslighting and your blame. You should step up and accept my offer that we are in this together, that I am not here as your wife right now but rather as a partner and a friend willing to stick by you through this to help figure things out. There is no hurt in trying. If it doesn't work at least we can say we did everything to save it and maybe feel better about parting ways in the process.

How would you respond to this WS? Thanks!


Me:BW (35)Him: WH(36) 3boys 8,5,1
Married 13 Years False R- Now Divorced!!He's with Skank #3 a "dancer"
Read my story "Merry Christmas, Douchebag"
http://www.amazon.com/Merry-Christmas-Douchebag-ebook/dp/B006OIA2IW/ref=sr_1_1?

Posts: 346 | Registered: May 2010
sadandtrying
♀ Member
Member # 19246
Default  Posted: 6:03 PM, May 4th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is it common for a WS to still have thoughts about the OP - at 2.5 years out?

My H has been NC with OP for 2 years, and we are working on R-ing, and just started MC.
Things have been better, worse, progress, set-backs, the works.

Recently I asked my H if he thinks about OP - he said, reluctantly, "Yes". I asked him what kind of thoughts, and he said "sometimes I wonder how she's doing, sometimes I think about the sex."

This really hurts - but is it common, and something I need to accept????


Posts: 1064 | Registered: Apr 2008
Kwills
♀ Member
Member # 13172
Default  Posted: 10:56 PM, May 4th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think it is common.

Your H was very brave to be that honest with you.

Kwills


Posts: 1052 | Registered: Jan 2007
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 9:50 AM, May 5th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DaniGirl,

I am sure he is looking at it as an "exit interview"
I'm sure that is what he is hoping this will be.

i really want to say "look i made a committment to you and I will no longer take your marriage rewriting and your gaslighting and your blame. You should step up and accept my offer that we are in this together, that I am not here as your wife right now but rather as a partner and a friend willing to stick by you through this to help figure things out. There is no hurt in trying. If it doesn't work at least we can say we did everything to save it and maybe feel better about parting ways in the process.

I don't think this will have any effect on him. You have already used similar arguements with no change in his attitude.

I know this sounds extreme and you have a baby, but take a packed bag with you to your joint session. If he continues his attitude and continues to say he wants a D then let him know that he will be explaining this to your kids and he will also be taking care of them (except for the baby assuming you are nursing him). This is what my wife did to me. She was going to be the one to leave. She wasn't going to let me leave to pursue my fantasy. She was going to have the life she felt she deserved and the life that I said I wasn't willing to give her, a life with a spouse who loved her. My BW actions knocked me out of my fog, not her words. At that moment, I believed that she would follow through with her plan.

Again, I don't know exactly how/if this could work given that you have a very small child and two other young children, but the point is that you need to do this for you, not him. Don't let him throw you aside so he can pursue his fantasy. I am assuming that he thinks he will be the one to leave, that he will give you everything. Don't let him do that to you. Take the reigns and play hardball. Do what you need to do for you.

If I am way off-base here, then I apologize, but the things you have done to date have not helped, so change the game.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6047 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 12:21 PM, May 5th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DaniGirl -

So to you WS, how do i best go about this? i really want to say "look i made a committment to you and I will no longer take your marriage rewriting and your gaslighting and your blame. You should step up and accept my offer that we are in this together, that I am not here as your wife right now but rather as a partner and a friend willing to stick by you through this to help figure things out. There is no hurt in trying. If it doesn't work at least we can say we did everything to save it and maybe feel better about parting ways in the process.

My husband did it best. He said, basically: You will snap out of this or I will divorce you and take the kids away.

I would have fought him on the kids, but I believed him.

Look, you're married. You are not being mean or bitchy if you say "snap out of it or else". Don't be so nicey-nice.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 12:23 PM, May 5th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tennispro4 -

Or do I just need to accept that it's over?

File first.

Snap him out of it. Don't give him control.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 12:27 PM, May 5th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

heartache101 -

Would you be offended if your spouse asked you the following question.
Do you feel in order for your life to be complete that you have an internal need to have sex with other people? Like a driven type of desire?

No, I would not be offended at all. My husband and I have discussed my SA in depth and many, many questions have already been asked and answered.

I ask you... what will you do with his answer?


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
heartache101
♀ Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 2:26 PM, May 5th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Unexpectedsong

Well if he would of answered yes I guess I would of went to my therapist and said now what he said Yes he needs sex with OW?? IDK?? I did ask him though and he answered a very big NO. Like are you nutz NO. Sooo I asked. Basically I am concerned that sooo many people hide who they are. I don't but I know a lot of people hide their sexuality. I think that is sad. You shoud be proud of who you are!


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3140 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 2:33 PM, May 5th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sadandtrying,

Is it common for a WS to still have thoughts about the OP - at 2.5 years out?

I did. My relationship with OM when I was single had been over since 2006. I had a D-day over text messages that those here would define as an EA back in summer of 2007 when I was engaged to BH. 2 years later, after NC except for work matters for that entire time, I started up EA again and then progressed to PA. I don't know if it's common, but it happened in my case.


"sometimes I wonder how she's doing, sometimes I think about the sex."

Pretty much how I thought about him during the years of NC. And I second Kwills...your H was brave in being so honest.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce


Posts: 1916 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
sadandtrying
♀ Member
Member # 19246
Default  Posted: 3:03 PM, May 5th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thank you Kwills and Heartbroken -

regarding H still thinking of OP 2.5 years out -

Okay, so, hard as it is to hear, it is common...

But how do I know if I have something to worry about (meaning that he may want to see her again and resume contact?)

And, how long does "thinking about OP" go on?


Posts: 1064 | Registered: Apr 2008
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 3:27 PM, May 5th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

heartache101 -

Basically I am concerned that sooo many people hide who they are.

Are you concerned about "people" in general or is "people" a code word for your husband? You are concerned that your husband is hiding who he is?

I don't but I know a lot of people hide their sexuality. I think that is sad. You shoud be proud of who you are!

So, if your husband had answered "yes", do you think he should be proud of who he is? Someone who needs sex from a lot of people?


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 3:49 PM, May 5th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But how do I know if I have something to worry about (meaning that he may want to see her again and resume contact?)

I wish I knew the answer to this one, Sadandtrying. I didn't think I'd ever resume that type of contact, much less turn it into a full-blown affair. My only suggestion would be for him to ensure strict, total, complete NC FOREVER. My A started up when I texted the OM in September with a personal comment (i.e. not work-related). As an aside, I should never have even texted him regarding work, even, because it was not necessary as a function of my job. If I hadn't still been in occasional work-related contact, I would never have sent the September text. And if I hadn't sent the September text, none of this would have happened.

Because of this, my stance is that the ONLY way is complete, total, unbreakable NC no matter what as the only way to prevent relapse. Honestly, I am a hard-liner now. I don't care if a WS's exOP's mother, father, brother, sister, or child die...no contact. I don't care if a WS's exOP has been evicted and is living out of a box. No contact. I don't care if a WS's exOP is ON FIRE and needs someone to piss on them---no contact! I am not even joking, although I sound like I am. Because contact, no matter how long the affair is over, is a slippery slope and it leads to what I experienced...complete loss and devastation. And my BH's loss and devastation is a thousand times worse.

ETA: As far as how to ensure the WS does not WANT to resume contact in the first place...I don't know. I only can guess that it must be a combination of willpower and complete transparency...so even if they lack the willpower they can't get away with it. I know it's a shitty way to live, but if it's the only chance, I guess it's the only thing to do. Yeah, it would've sucked having my BH checking my phone every day---but guess what? If he had, I couldn't have gotten away with contacting OM in the first place.

[This message edited by heartbroken0903 at 3:52 PM, May 5th (Wednesday)]


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce


Posts: 1916 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
sadandtrying
♀ Member
Member # 19246
Default  Posted: 5:27 PM, May 5th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow...heartbroken, this is a really hard one for me.

I really question whether I can stay with my H. "what if" my H gets sent back to work in the neigboring state in which she lives and sees her again?
This happened 7 months after dday, I was with him, and I could feel the desire for her. What if I hadn't been there????

I really don't know if I can live with him having, however intermittant, any secret desires for her.
I really need to think about whether I'm the kind of person who can reconcile that.

As much as he says he is committed to the M, and however much he says I am "wonderful, a turn-on, etc", I just don't know if I can accept that there may always be a desire for her.

I mean, is someone really "committed" to a diet, as long as nothing is put in front of them to tempt them?

Thanks so much for being there...


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