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User Topic: BS Questions for WS's IV
nothereorthere
♀ Member
Member # 20530
Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, April 27th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BTW, when I said I know he had the A because of
Oppportunity, validation, self esteem, selfish
he denies that's any of it. He claims he wasn't being selfish and it was because his son was in Iraq and other things was bothering him.

Posts: 81 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 3:49 PM, April 27th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UnexpectedSong.

Thank you for the reply. Alltho it hurts I do acknowledge this is true. What bothers me is that she say she have fond memories of the A.

To use you analogy I guess this would be like a junkie looking back at how they felt while high. Remembering how good that felt.

From me POV. This is like a rapist telling his victim that he remembers the rape fondly because the sex was good. While may be true. It certainly does not go down well.

Thanks again.

Razor


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3084 | Registered: Sep 2007
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 4:08 PM, April 27th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Razor -

To use you analogy I guess this would be like a junkie looking back at how they felt while high. Remembering how good that felt.

Except that "good" is subjective. I'm sorry that your wife thinks of her affair fondly. What I think of my affair is ... it was exciting at the time, but oh so disgusting, and at what price?!? That changes the "exciting" from "good" to "bad".

I don't know how to describe it.

Maybe ... you thought your marriage was one thing. Now, because of this new knowledge, you feel as if the entire marriage was false.

In the same way, the affair could have been one thing (i.e., "good"), but because of the new knowledge one gains, the entire affair is now viewed in a different light and it's not what it was thought to be at the time.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
notthesum
Member
Member # 16172
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, April 28th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Soon after Dday me WW say to me how she ENJOYED the A. She say she enjoy the attention of OM. Even enjoyed 2 men competing for her (even tho I didnt know I was competing). She enjoy the break from difficulties and resentments and responsibilities that come with being M. She enjoyed the dates. The vacations. The romance. The new and different sex.

She say that any WS that say they did not enjoy they A is lying. Just saying what they need to say to either keep BS or to make them be quiet.

First....wow.....the teenage defiance attitude is ridiculous. Is that where your difficulty in accepting the her statements lies?

Like the above poster said....if affairs were like cleaning the toilet, of course no one would have one.

So yes, I enjoyed mine while I was in it. Just like I enjoyed every single quarter pounder with cheese meal and extra large fries. After living that kind of indulgent lifestyle however, and now looking at my body and seeing the damage I have done to myself....I wish I wouldn't have done it. And I don't look back fondly on those cheeseburgers anymore. Because now I have to eat right, establish portion control, and exercise to repair the damage I have done to myself.

My affair was the same. Yes, I loved the attention. My husband put his job before me. My husband had sex with me maybe once every two months and would not talk to me about it. xOM would meet with me while he was at work. He thought I was sexy and beautiful and wanted sex all the time. He listened to me, he didn't dismiss my opinions.......of course I "enjoyed" my affair. Who wouldn't like that kind of attention, that kind of validation? It's only after I actually got out of the affair, and started examining why I enjoyed it so much that I realized how broken and selfish I was, and how much damage I had not only done to myself, but others as well. My "great time" resulted in changing my xBS forever. It laid another layer of brokenness to him and he eventually went out and had two RAs.
It destroyed xOM's marriage....his BS will never be the same again. Nor will his 3 children.

I look back on my actions now with regret and shame. I mean really...sex anywhere and everywhere, like a damn cat in heat?
All the lying and the TT?

I lost my marriage, a job making a little more than twice what I make now, my home, I'm having to actually save up so that I can file bankruptcy, the respect of my family, etc, etc, etc.

So yes...I enjoyed the affair. Was it worth what I lost because of it? No way.

Some people hit bottom and come out of their "high" relatively quickly. Some people have to lose everything before they realize how messed up they are. And some will never realize it.

[This message edited by notthesum at 1:09 PM, April 28th (Wednesday)]


Time heals nothing. It's what you do with that time that heals..or doesn't.

I'm not almost 40. I'm $19.99 plus shipping and handling. And insurance.

Sometimes, the person you would take a bullet for is the one holding the gun.


Posts: 1888 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: Rocky Mountains
heartache101
♀ Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 4:29 PM, April 29th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was going to ask if I was right on that.

My question was.

1)If you the WS look back now at the affair and find it disgusting and repulsive? Like a bad dream and you just want to push it out of your mind? 2)Is that why you get so upset when the BS keeps at it. You want it buried and we keep it in the air??
I told my friend Its like what we thought was true 20 years ago we look at it now and todays truth is different. Same story same plot just a different truth?
Sorry I really had 2 questions didn't I.


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3140 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 8:10 AM, April 30th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

heartache101 -

If you the WS look back now at the affair and find it disgusting and repulsive? Like a bad dream and you just want to push it out of your mind?

At first, this is exactly how it felt. Any reminder of the A was a reminder of just how awful a person I was capable of being. Over time, it's changed a bit. I want to remember it from the standpoint that I never want to lose sight of what I almost lost, and remember just how hard the work was to recover myself and to reconcile.

Is that why you get so upset when the BS keeps at it. You want it buried and we keep it in the air??

I think you'll find two schools of thought here. For those of us who are fully remorseful, you're thoughts are dead on. We work pretty hard to climb out of our pit that we dug for ourselves. When our BS brings things up, we slide a little further back down into the pit.

For those who are still in their A's or lack remorse, challenges from BS's attempt to break down the fantasy that the WS desperately wants to keep alive. It angers the WS because they don't want anyone interfering with the A in any way.

So which reason for anger can very depending on the state of mind of the WS.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
notthesum
Member
Member # 16172
Default  Posted: 9:57 AM, April 30th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Exactly what LC said.

It is very difficult situation to be in. Being a WS who truly wants to change is like walking a tightrope. You want to be positive, you want to change, and you want to focus on all the good things about yourself, and the good things you have changed about yourself. You know you have to be willing to discuss and dissect the affair with your spouse.
But sometimes your BS wants to constantly revisit every humiliating detail, every demeaning act. In my case, it was always extremely difficult to discuss details with my BS. His approach (which was rooted in anger/pain) was to humiliate me, or try to trip me up with details (attempting to catch me in a lie). And my defenses would come up. Because I was not that person anymore, because I was trying to be a better person.
Sadly, after TT, etc, he will never believe that my first A was a month and half long, and that I only had one sexual encounter with xOM.
There were a lot of questions he had that I had no real logical answer for (logical in his eyes.) Like with my EA, I exchanged sex scenario text messages and dirty pictures with xOM2. But I never met with him for sex. Never. He never believed that, never really even gave me the space to figure out that answer. He only wanted to hear that it did turn physical.
After months of him asking the same question, after he had already decided what the only acceptable answer was, I realized that talking about it in depth, or trying to analyze my actions was futile.
He could not get to the point where he could be open enough to actually hear me, and I couldn't be empathetic enough to hang in there. (I was dealing with my own distrust of him after an RA and his refusal of transparency/accountability, as well as catching him in several lies).

I don't blame my xBS/WS for his initial distrust and pain. Unfortunately, with the way we were both wired, his approach was not conducive to achieve what he was reaching for. And I wasn't emotionally mature enough to see past the abusive part of what he was doing to give him what he needed.
I think if he had approached me from a growth position, ie, why did you do x,y,z or say this or that during this occasion, and these are the reasons it hurt me, how do you feel you have changed, etc, we might have been able to turn everything around.

What we ended up with was my month and a half long A with one physical encounter, then abuse from him, then his first RA, more dysfunctional attempts to R, then his second RA (same OW), then my EA, then his 3rd RA.

What a mess. Check that.....what a minefield!

At this point I have walked away from him. Totally and completely. I just recently found out he is still with OW#2 after lying to me about her for a year. When I asked him any qs about it, I got the second example LC was talking about. He feels zero remorse for what he has done/is doing.

[This message edited by notthesum at 9:58 AM, April 30th (Friday)]


Time heals nothing. It's what you do with that time that heals..or doesn't.

I'm not almost 40. I'm $19.99 plus shipping and handling. And insurance.

Sometimes, the person you would take a bullet for is the one holding the gun.


Posts: 1888 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: Rocky Mountains
heartache101
♀ Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 11:02 AM, April 30th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LC and notthesum

Thank YOU. I find it sooo fascinating how the mind works... I am trying to open up my mind a bit more and more to truly understand peoples motives and actions while in the A and then after the affair it is sooo interesting. Painful but interesting.


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3140 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
littlebarbrat
♀ Member
Member # 28291
Default  Posted: 8:21 AM, May 1st (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Went to MC with WS yesterday. He mentioned to counselor that I want him to tell me daily if they had to work together or have any kind of interaction. MC says that by my "forcing" this of him I am making this a need based relationship instead of a faith based relationship and I am setting us up for failure. Any input on this from someone who OP was coworker and had this same request from BS.
He also suggested reading When Good People Have Affairs. I looked it up online and it seems to be a handbook of excuses but I don't know.
I have read Not Just Friends and I mentioned to WS that it had great advise for communication and so forth. He has started reading it on his own without my actually asking so I have hope. I'm concerned this particular counselor may cause us to back slide.
Any advice would be appreciated.


BS Me:30
WS Him: 40
2 healthy, active boys.

I'm still alive but I'm barely breathing
Just praying to a God that I don't believe in
'cause I got time while she got freedom
'cause when a heart breaks no it don't break ev


Posts: 75 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: Kentucky
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 11:45 AM, May 1st (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

littlebarbrat,

You aren't capable of a "faith" based relationship because your WH has already shown you that he can't be trusted. You are entitled to your having your needs met at this point. Your gut is telling you what you need for successful R. Go with that. You WH should go along with that because it is what you NEED. Make sure he isn't confusing his needs with excuses.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6047 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 2:27 PM, May 1st (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

littlebarbrat -

I agree that the MC's feedback is off base here. But there may be a way to change the communication path to ease things for you while not focusing on a daily negative "self reporting".

What if you were to say "I'm going to assume every day that you had to interact with the OP. You can choose to tell me when you didn't and what you did instead. You can choose to tell me when you did and what the interaction was. Or you can choose to not say anything, and let me continue to make my assumptions.

If you choose the last, you need to know that I will be assuming the worst. That you not only interacted with the OP, but that you were happy while doing so. That you might have shared a laugh or two and kept it light hearted. You also need to know that if you leave me with my thoughts this way, it's going to prevent me from being able to open up and let the possibility of R happen.

I'm leaving the choice up to you. This is not a mandate. But now I've shared what the outcome will be based on your choices. It's now in your hands to decide how you want to handle things next.".

The reality is that this is what is happening anyway. By changing the way you approach it, it becomes less of a restriction and more focused on the consequences of your WS's choices.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
tennispro4
♀ Member
Member # 27842
Default  Posted: 9:36 AM, May 3rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't think this is really a question but I would appreciate any insight on my WH's behavior:

Last week my WH (we are currently seperated) wrote me a very long email that basically detailed all the ways our relationship was a sham and how we never should have gotten married. Needless to say, I remember things slightly differently. Then he wanted to talk about it in person, I assume to continue to try to convince me he's right. But, instead of getting sucked into his blame shifting and re-writing, I just said I didn't have time to talk to him about it. He flipped a little and got kind of angry. So I 180'd hard that week, did not speak to him and at the end of the week exposed his A to his family.

Well, it looks like he still spent the weekend with OW. We exchanged some text messages yesterday and I can't help but get the impression almost that he was with OW as a way to get back at me? He said he was 'confused' why I wouldn't talk to him last week and outed his A. I said to him that he had obviously made his choice, but he still insists he doesn't know if our M can be saved, he cries about it every day, etc. And he still wants to talk about that b.s. email he sent me last week.

I know that my actions last week didn't drive him to continue the A, but I think that's what he's making it seem like. Is it possible he's getting deeper into the fog? I thought everything I was doing generally had the opposite effect?


I don't know if I'll make it, but watch how good I'll fake it

Posts: 1140 | Registered: Mar 2010
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 10:34 AM, May 3rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tennispro4,

Your WH is trying to force you to make the decision to D. I tried doing that to my BW too. Your WH is trying to justify his A by re-writing and blame-shifting. He may be thinking that if he can get you to believe the M is a sham that you may realize that he isn't worth it and you should D. That way, since it would be your decision, you would be more okay with it than if he said he wanted a D. This is just my take given what you have described.

What my BW did to me was to hold her ground as far as the re-writing our M. She wouldn't accept it from me. She did own her part of the pre-A issues and still does, but she was not about to let me twist that in order to D.

The biggest thing here is that the 180 ultimately needs to be for you, not to try to turn him around. Stick with it. Don't let him push you into a desicion that he can't make himself. My BW doing that to me forced me to look into what I was doing and at some level I realized I didn't like what I was doing. Not all WS will react that way, but some will.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6047 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
tennispro4
♀ Member
Member # 27842
Default  Posted: 10:53 AM, May 3rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Baxters.

I told him a couple weeks ago that it seemed like he was trying to force me to make the decision to D so he wouldn't have to and he denied that's what he was doing. But last night he did say things like "Why would you still want to be with me anyway" and "You'll never trust me again" etc. I still think he is subconsciously trying to force me into ending it, even if he won't admit it.

I just don't understand the proclamations about how he is so broken up over this and cries about it every night when his actions directly contradict that.

I will keep doing the 180, I know it is ultimately for me. I will not accept the re-writing, and I think in some way that made him angry at me?

Thanks for your input.


I don't know if I'll make it, but watch how good I'll fake it

Posts: 1140 | Registered: Mar 2010
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 11:21 AM, May 3rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tennispro4,

Yes, he is angry because you aren't giving him the easy way out. By doing what you are doing, you are forcing him to really look at what he is doing.

It may take him a while to see what he is doing. It is up to you to figure out how long you are willing to wait. My BW waited almost two years for me, and that is two years neither of us wants to remember. If you have it in you, take the reigns.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6047 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
crushed again
♀ Member
Member # 26138
Default  Posted: 3:51 PM, May 3rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First off let me say that the WS's on here are the best! I can only pray for the day my WH would become 1/10 as great as you all.
Now my question. I know defensive almost always means the A is still on. I'm done fooling myself. But why would you continue to lie when the facts are right in front of you? I swear WH actually believes that if he says it did not happen, then it really didn't. Also is it that you are just so used to being defensive for so long that even after the A is outed you can't stop? I've caught WH crying remorsefully but only when he thinks he's alone. To me he is just pretending everything is fine. Maybe he is crying over the OW. I guess I have a second question- if the OW was so wonderful then why has WH begged me never to tell any of his friends/family? He NEVER took her anywhere in town. Only out of town and I found out the one trip they flew on, they were actually on seperate planes! Sounds like alot of denying of someone you were supposedly so in luvee with!


"Don't you worry your pretty little mind because people throw rocks at things that shine!"
~I guess living in limbo is my "new normal"- stinks!~

Posts: 713 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Dreaming of a far better place!
tennispro4
♀ Member
Member # 27842
Default  Posted: 3:54 PM, May 3rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One more question for the day.

I encouraged my WH to come to this site and look at some of the information and the WS forum since he's all caught up in "not knowing". I told him it would be good to sign up and start posting b/c he can talk to people that have been through the same thing. About a week after that I asked if he had ever looked at anything on SI and he said he had but was on information overload from it.

Is there something more specific I can direct him to? Did anything on here in particular help any WS's figure out what they wanted?


I don't know if I'll make it, but watch how good I'll fake it

Posts: 1140 | Registered: Mar 2010
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 3:59 PM, May 3rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tennispro4 -

If it helps, he is free to PM me directly. I'm happy to hear the story from his side, share insight and maybe steer him to specific threads that will be most helpful to him.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
heartache101
♀ Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 12:20 PM, May 4th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WS

Okay I have been doing a ton of reading. I have another question.
Would you be offended if your spouse asked you the following question.
Do you feel in order for your life to be complete that you have an internal need to have sex with other people? Like a driven type of desire?


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3140 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 12:26 PM, May 4th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

heartache101 -

I wouldn't be offended by the question at all. In fact, it's worded very gently based on a legitimate concern that I'm sure many BS's would wonder.

The answer for me is pretty straightforward. No, I don't feel a need to have sex with other people. But my A wasn't driven by some maniacal sexual drive. It was based on a super low self image (raising the value of compliments from others) and a fear of conflict (which kept me from opening my mouth at home about things that bothered me). So in my case, it was something that started small with a few compliments and then rapidly got out of control.

The answer from someone diagnosed as SA might be very different. So the answer is going to vary based on the person being asked. But I think the question itself is a fair one and reasonably worded.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
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