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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's IV
justine_88
Member
Member # 5667
Default  Posted: 2:18 AM, April 12th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks to all who answered my question!

UnexpectedSong, after reading your take on the idea of being on a pedestal, I realize maybe that word in itself, probably wasn't the right word that I should have conveyed.

I myself wouldn't want to be on one either.

I guess I have changed, as so many BS's do, as far as always protecting your heart.

Even though no matter how much time has passed and you have to enter in a "new" beginning for your marriage, I grieve for the man that he presented himself to be.

I just wondered if a WS felt the same, because of course, I am not the same woman who loves my WS "unconditonally" anymore.

I was so affectionate and supportive to my WS, emotionally and physically, and now that is changed. It's not a matter of willfully holding back. It's just the collateral damage that can't be undone I guess.

My sister was a WS and she is very ANGRY that her BS doesn't treat her like a "queen" anymore. (Her exact words). Her A has been over for 3 years and she says that she hates seeing glimpses of comtempt from my brother-in-law.

She actually said that she "misses" being on a "pedestal" in the way that my brother-in-law used to treat her.

Sorry for the book! I just wanted to hear from WS perspectives on their experiences in this with their BS.


Posts: 104 | Registered: Oct 2004
newnormal
♀ Member
Member # 21925
Default  Posted: 7:32 AM, April 12th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To icbtih8

you were letting me

Iím not sure if I am answering your question, but that phrase jumped out at me as a co-dependant statement. Has FWH been to IC? My FWH has huge co-dependant issues. He was unable to say NO - wanted to always please the person he is with in the moment (male or female). Your quote appears that he is asking subconsciously for your permission back then, as a way to enable his self image as a good man to allow him to continue to be nice to OW (be involved an A), if you give permission per se. Iím sorry Iím not explaining this very well, but see if co-dependency is an issue for him. Then, check his recovery from those maladaptive behaviors. I took his current statement that he still struggles subconsciously from it, and as such, is at risk for repeating. The good news is that he sounds like a good man underneath, and if he is willing to work at his behaviors, is willing to change Ė he can.

((((icbtih8)))


BS 43 (me)
FWH 48
D-day 9/07

Dont retreat, reload.
"Pull that knife out of your back - and sever the fuel line to that bus you got thrown under" Bufffalo


Posts: 1030 | Registered: Dec 2008
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 12:13 PM, April 12th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Justine_88 -

UnexpectedSong, after reading your take on the idea of being on a pedestal, I realize maybe that word in itself, probably wasn't the right word that I should have conveyed.

I did ask my H about the "pedestal" concept. He said that, no, he never had me on a pedestal, which concurs with my perception.

I grieve for the man that he presented himself to be.

I just wondered if a WS felt the same,

It's very strange for me. Of course, I wish that I was the upright person I always thought I was. However, there was always this demon inside me, and now that it has been expressed (and unfortunately, my H had to suffer the damage), I am living more authentically than I ever have before. And I like this person. I like that my H knows about my demons, that I myself am more aware of everything about myself.

This authenticity... it makes everything so clear. I don't want to exchange this clarity for what used to be - the muddy, plodding along... merely existing. Given the choice, I would rather be the person I am now.

I was so affectionate and supportive to my WS, emotionally and physically, and now that is changed.

My H still is. He is my rock. Everything that I have accomplished is because of him.

My sister was a WS and she is very ANGRY that her BS doesn't treat her like a "queen" anymore.

I am sorry for your sister. It seems as if she still does not fully know herself. My H has never treated me like a "queen", thank goodness. I would not have married him if he did.

Thanks for a great question!


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
heartache101
♀ Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 5:35 PM, April 12th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Okay here it is.

Why stay with your BS?

I mean you cheated your marriage had a flaw or you would not of went outside the marriage right? And why would you want to stay and fight to be who you want to be when you could be that person with someone else without all the crap.. You know the history of the crap??? It just mind boggles me that a WS would want to stay after they cheated. Any clarity on this for me???
See I think well if I would of cheated ain't no way I would go back and put up with the crap I was trying to run from.. Am I making any sense????


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3141 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 5:48 PM, April 12th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

heartache101,

Integrity? Being true to ourselves? Having morals and values? I think that for many of the WS here these things exist. And even though we throw it all away and have an A, some part of us still exists that wonders what the hell we are doing having an A. That little glimmer of what is truly inside us is enough for many of us to want to fight for what is right inside of us. Yes we eff'd up, but that doesn't make us horrible. Those of us here are examples of individuals who know we have done something wrong and are going about finding a solution.

We could all ask the reciprocal question of the BS, why do you stay?

And why would you want to stay and fight to be who you want to be when you could be that person with someone else without all the crap..
Because I wouldn't be the person I want to be if I left my BW for another woman.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6054 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
heartache101
♀ Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 6:32 PM, April 12th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Baxter

As a matter of fact I am asking myself that question. But mainly my main question was if I was the WS why would I stay when I could walk away and start anew...I never looked at as if integrity an such


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3141 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 7:31 PM, April 12th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

heartache101,

I tried seven ways from Sunday to walk away and start anew, but that wouldn't have fixed or changed anything inside of me that I knew existed pre-A or which led to the A.

It is difficult for a WS to think of integrity or anything close to it, but at some point we have to start recognizing there is some good in us.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6054 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
nothereorthere
♀ Member
Member # 20530
Default  Posted: 2:01 AM, April 13th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Baxter

It bothers me that you didn't mention the reason for staying as being in love with your BW. As a BW, I too asked myself why I stayed and my answer is because I am still in love with my FWH. Of course, if he didn't make changes I wouldn't stay out of love. But, your answer struck me funny because I and I think alot of other BS worry that a WS stays just because they think it is the right thing to do and that somehow rights what they did wrong. So, nothing personal, but your answer makes me uneasy.

[This message edited by nothereorthere at 2:06 AM, April 13th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 81 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 10:13 AM, April 13th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nothereorthere,

My answer troubles me too. My BW and I are working on this. I know she loves me and always has, but there was a time when I truly believed she didn't. I let go of my M at that point. Unfortunately, my next experience with "love" was with OW. I know now that it was more limerance than love, but I have also figured out that I didn't know what love was before. The only love I really knew about was that love that occurrs early in the relationship. I never knew what long term love looked like. BW and I never worked on it. The love we did have became like a coaster that has fallen off the end table and roll under the couch and has a thick layer of dust on it. Sure, we knew it was somewhere in the house but we didn't look for it and we just got tables that didn't require coasters to protect them. So in my answers to heartache101, the integrity, being true to ourselves, morals and values are all what have kept me around to try to find that love with my BW. I know it was there. I know that I let go of it because I wasn't equipped to do anything else. Now I am learning and searching for that love and finding out how to fit it into my M. I'm not looking forward to my BW reading this post, but this is where we are at. The only thing I can say is that we are working on it. We are doing the little things that keep us going from day to day. Neither of us is letting this issue become forgetten. We talk about it when we can. Last night BW and I agreed that it is time to do something about all of this. So we are going to work on it together.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6054 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
tennispro4
♀ Member
Member # 27842
Default  Posted: 10:33 AM, April 13th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question:

Our DDay was just a week ago, and happened when my WH told me he was having an EA/PA with a coworker. He left our home last week after he told me, slept there Sunday night, and has left again. He said they tried to go NC before but couldn't. I asked him last night to tell me all the details and go NC, and he wouldn't. But he wants to go to MC. This might be a too individualized question, but what does this mean? I didn't ask for MC, he did. Could MC be the thing to get him out of the fog? Make him want to end the A? Or is he just trying to play me?

Thanks for any input.


I don't know if I'll make it, but watch how good I'll fake it

Posts: 1140 | Registered: Mar 2010
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, April 13th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tennispro4,

One week seems awful quick. There are two possibilities as to why he may be asking for MC. One, he is thinking that MC really is what you want and so doing what he thinks you need in order to give himself some time to think. Two, he needs you to help him. MC would be a relatively safe setting for him to be able to receive help from you.

My BW wanted MC right away and I went along with it. It sort of helped, but didn't really make me change anything. Once I got to the end of my rope, I started turning to my BW to help me.

Has he provided passwords? Does he answer your questions? It is a fearful time for him right now too and he may not even know what he wants or what he is looking for. NC has to happen.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6054 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
tennispro4
♀ Member
Member # 27842
Default  Posted: 11:02 AM, April 13th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for your reply Baxter.
I've had passwords all along because we share all accounts, the A was going on at and after work. He will not answer questions and will not agree to NC because he doesn't know what he wants. He seems to think that a MC will tell him what he wants?


I don't know if I'll make it, but watch how good I'll fake it

Posts: 1140 | Registered: Mar 2010
RUKiddingMe?
♀ Member
Member # 27967
Default  Posted: 11:08 AM, April 13th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Baxter & Nothere

I have been reading your conversation and had some thoughts I wanted to throw out there. And here is "my" take on some things. And these are the ideals that I will POUND into my children's heads for when they are in a marriage one day.
Love is a verb. Not a noun. There will be days when we are tired and emotionally drained. Those are the days that our determination and commitment to win over this beast kicks in, if even just to carry us through today. We know that "feelings" aren't consistent. Some days we will feel this and some days we will feel that. Marriage is knowing that your partner has your back, no matter how they "feel" about you at the time. It makes me think of when my teen son & daughter are fighting like cats and dogs and "hate" each other, but God forbid anyone else treat them with disrespect. They may hate each other at the moment, but will protect one another from outside threats no matter what! I can bank on that. And they know that they can, too. There would NEVER be circumstance where they wouldn't have each other's backs. NEVER!
Remorse and guilt are feelings but protecting your marriage is an action. My ultimate goal is to KNOW that NO MATTER WHAT my FWH may be "feeling" about me or himself on any given day, he will always PROTECT this marriage in the future. We can't always dictate our "feelings" but we CAN dictate our "actions".
Sometimes we allow our heart to guide our head when it should be other way around. When our heart is weak, our head needs to step in to lead us to do what is right. I think that sometimes when we force ourselves to do what may be painful, but what we know is right, it brings our hearts to the right place, too. When my son doesn't want to study for a test, but does, and then makes a good grade on it, it makes him feel good. SO the next time its test time, he "feels" more incentive to study because the end result felt good.
I hope you can find some correlation in here and some of these ideas make sense to you.

[This message edited by RUKiddingMe? at 11:11 AM, April 13th (Tuesday)]


DDay(s): 12.20.09 & 2.23.10
Trickled Truth
Me: BS 42
Him: WS 48
Grieving the fact that we're "Just another statistic" and we can't get a "Do Over"
Married: 20 years
Children 3: 16, 15 & 11
Reconciling

Posts: 262 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: Texas
heartache101
♀ Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 11:23 AM, April 13th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Baxter

I keep knocking on your door doll!! Okay here we go..

I stayed because #1 I loved my spouse deeply (remember this is 18 years ago) #2 because I refused to not fight for my marriage (hard headed) my family!
At this time and age I Believed in Love and romance. the ever ever after. I believed in US.
(Yes I am writing in the past because I don't believe in love and romance and the US) I am just blah in that area of life blah life..

Okay fast forward my stupid spouse has done whatever okay we will get to that in life. When I can handle the answer level headed.

But get this Baxter I asked my spouse why he stays in this marriage what did I get for an answer. Now he thought long and hard before he answered. Loyalty.. Not love Because I of all people have stood strong by his side thru all ( believe you me) all his stupid moves in life... Now that just raped my heart.. I don't get that answer at all. As a matter of fact it just slapped me upside the head. I am just like a freakin dog!
So Baxter I liked how you spoke of the love you knew you had that it was there you just had to dust if off. Yes life can sneak up cover things up I get that. I even get that a person can make a serious mistake I get that. But what kinda answer is that Loyalty?

Oh and not to really back hand you but really integrity? Don't get me wrong just because someone cheats does not mean they have NO integrity. I get that some people truly truly make a mistake when committing adultery. Others are just doing that having a well wanted affair. Period no mistake just being selfish. I like to call it as it really really is. Black and white no inbetweens.
Oh an my therapist said I would really see things different this week. Soo I am hitting you with all my questions before I go smack my WS with these too. He is not going to be happy camper..


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3141 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
nothereorthere
♀ Member
Member # 20530
Default  Posted: 11:27 AM, April 13th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Baxter

If you feel that love was once there, then you do have something worth working it out & from your posts, it looks like you are trying. As for your BW reading this post, I think your honesty counts. And also, where you wrote "I know it was there" meaning love, will probably be a positive for her. I wouldn't worry about your BW reading your post. Even if it bothers her at first, I think she will be glad how you took a good look at where your at and still gave an honest answer. I, as a BS, appreciates when my FWH is honest with me no matter how he fears my reaction and more then likely your BW will see that as a positive too.


Posts: 81 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
nothereorthere
♀ Member
Member # 20530
Default  Posted: 11:53 AM, April 13th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Whoa, let's not beat up on Baxter. Life is not always black and white and as much as we would all like to say "we would never do what our FWS's did", we can't really know that. I think that many people that have A's are really messed up emotionally at the time. It's not an excuse, it's just a fact. That dosen't make for clear decisions. So, yes, logically we should always make the right choices. But, in reality, we all are human and make mistakes. It's what we learn from our mistakes and make the necessary changes not to repeat those same mistakes that builds our integrity. I would like to think if I had the A instead of my H, that he would give me a chance to prove myself. All I meant earlier is if two people feel they were in love before the A, then they have a foundation to build on, so R is possible. True love dosen't just disappear when the relationship takes a hard hit. You might have to find it again, but deep down it's still there if you started out with it.

[This message edited by nothereorthere at 12:59 PM, April 14th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 81 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 11:56 AM, April 13th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RUKiddingMe? -

My ultimate goal is to KNOW that NO MATTER WHAT my FWH may be "feeling" about me or himself on any given day, he will always PROTECT this marriage in the future. We can't always dictate our "feelings" but we CAN dictate our "actions".

Baxter, as well as all the other Waywards here, understands this very well. We are not your children, nor your H. We don't really need anything to be "pounded" into our heads... We pound on ourselves (and each other) already.

[This message edited by UnexpectedSong at 12:11 PM, April 13th (Tuesday)]


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
heartache101
♀ Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 12:05 PM, April 13th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow there is a lot of info flowing today..
Baxter you know I am not picking on you right?? I find your writing very insightful. I think your BS is lucky to have a thoughtful WS.. You really look inside yourself.. I don't want you to think I am picking on you cause I am not... Okay..
As a matter of fact for all WS that answer here a big thank YOU! I know it has to be hard to come on here and answer some of these questions.. It is sooo appreciated.. It really is!!
I know I am not a perfect person. I have made my share of mistakes in life. I told my WS that also.
Again thanks all you WS that answer!! You are appreciated!


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3141 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 12:09 PM, April 13th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

heartache101 -

I mean you cheated your marriage had a flaw or you would not of went outside the marriage right?

I did not cheat because of my marriage or my husband. I cheated because of something fucked up inside me. I am now working on fixing myself - not for my marriage or for my husband, only for me.

Why stay with your BS?

Because I never stopped loving him and I never wanted to leave the marriage. And I want this family.

(I did want out, desperately, after DDay because I could not face my husband anymore. But that was not the reason for the affair itself.)


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 12:28 PM, April 13th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

heartache101 and nothereorthere have brought to light the elephant in the room for my sitch. I haven't told my BW I have loved her in almost 20 months. Because of my responses here on SI, and especially today in ICR, BW and I are in quite an email conversation because we are both at work...

heartache, I think my BW feels the same way right now. She longs for me to say "I love you" and she see's so many WS here on SI saying they love their BS. I haven't done that. If I say "I love you" I will mean it with all my heart. But I used to say it long ago and I got hurt pre-A.

It takes a few days to put pieces together sometimes and I am wondering if my answers regarding integrity, true to myself, etc. are still valid answers. If that love was there, which it was, then it shouldn't be discarded just because I believed, however incorrectly, that my BW didn't love me.

Loyalty is not a nice term in this instance. I suspect your WH knows the answer you want, but he can't figure out how to say it and feel it. It is also a matter of trust in himself. If he says it, can he follow through?


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6054 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
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