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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's IV
Kwills
♀ Member
Member # 13172
Default  Posted: 1:47 PM, April 7th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am of the opinion that thoughts do not matter, only actions. And in general, one doesn't get to eavesdrop on another person's thoughts.

In your husband's case, he verbalizes his thoughts, so you're kind of stuck hearing them if you use a VAR on him. But, they are still only thoughts.

Can you try to treat them like the brief tracings on sand that they are?


Hmm.. I guess I am of a different opinion on this. Everything starts out as a thought. Good things, bad things. Thoughts are more powerful than we realize because often, even if slowly and nearly imperceptibly, we can begin to work toward actualizing them. Sometimes before we realize what is really going on. That has certainly been the case for me. If I am not addressing my thoughts and feelings, especially say in an addiction, then I could find myself "white knuckling", meaning I'll act in an acceptable way but my thoughts and feelings are not in congruence. I'm doing what I should be doing but I'm thinking & feeling miserable. That is a relapse waiting to happen. Of course, changing behaviors first often works too, the more we do or do not do something the more likely we are to change how we think & feel about it over time.

I liked this quote that a friend kept on her door at my old job:

Watch your thoughts; they become words.
Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits.
Watch your habits; they become character.
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.


Kwills


Posts: 1052 | Registered: Jan 2007
heartache101
♀ Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 1:48 PM, April 7th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have yet another question..

Okay for you WS that was the OPs KISA.

My husband keeps asking who is your hero? I keep looking at him like not you nut.
Okay soo what you WS want to now be the BS KISA??? Like how do you expect that to happen.. Sorry 2 questions..
Thanks...


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3141 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 3:13 PM, April 7th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

heartache101,

Okay for you WS that was the OPs KISA.
*raises hand*

My husband keeps asking who is your hero? I keep looking at him like not you nut.
Do you mean am I my BW KISA? I was a long time ago. Do I want to be again? Yes. Can I? I don't know (explained below).

Okay soo what you WS want to now be the BS KISA???
I don't know that I want to be a KISA anymore. I mean, yes, I do, but being a KISA means that you get a bit too much validation from others.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6061 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
heartache101
♀ Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 3:20 PM, April 7th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess that the KISA is kinda the allure of the OP too. Some more of that high feeling too???
Now he is like I am your hero aren't I? I seriously have said what YOU my Hero NOT! Sorry WS not picking on ya. But seriously?

I just can't grasp that either... I thought it was me making a mountain out of nothing again but I thought I was right. Hmmmm.
Sooo what Baxter you think we BS being too harsh on the WS that is truly remorseful and that we should open up a bit more an live in the present get our heads (or asses) out of the past???
I appreciate your answers much!!


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3141 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
EmptyCup
♀ Member
Member # 22909
Default  Posted: 3:26 PM, April 7th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That's the problem, I have already told him how it makes me feel and also that it is unacceptable to me and I need him not to do it. I have told him this so many times, before the A and especially after the A. Counsellers have told him in the past. Everytime, he tells me he won't do it again and yet he does. First, he gets angry and tells me I'm making a big deal out of nothing. Then he says he shouldn't have done it and he's sorry and won't do it again. Then he tells me don't get upset when he changes and his personality is different then. Sounds like manipulation to me and him wanting me to accept his bad behavior. I'm tired of having to say it so often and not getting results. I'm exhausted by it all. I'm fed up with it.

Well, that sucks. The truth of the matter is you cannot change his behavior, only yours. You have to decide what you will do if he continues with this behavior. There's really no other way around it. You can only motivate him with positive or negative consequences.

If you really do think he's acting in a manipulative way and not trying his best, but failing, then he certainly knows he can get away with this.

[This message edited by EmptyCup at 3:27 PM, April 7th (Wednesday)]


FWW, reconciled with my best friend <3

Nothing much but love to give you, even less have I to hide - Tim O'Brien


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Feb 2009
nothereorthere
♀ Member
Member # 20530
Default  Posted: 3:42 PM, April 7th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks again EmptyCup.

Any other opinions from any other FWS? Does it seem like he's being manipulative and doesen't really have remorse over the A? Is there no hope and I should just move on without him?

[This message edited by nothereorthere at 3:44 PM, April 7th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 81 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 3:43 PM, April 7th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess that the KISA is kinda the allure of the OP too. Some more of that high feeling too???
KISA was a way of life for me. I don't think that I saw my OW as my KISA. Don't know if it is a gender-biased thing. Would be interesting to research that.

Sooo what Baxter you think we BS being too harsh on the WS that is truly remorseful and that we should open up a bit more an live in the present get our heads (or asses) out of the past???
Yes and no. First off, the WS has to pull their head out of their ass. If a WS is truly being remorseful, then hopefully the BS will recognize it and be able to live in the present. But at the same time I think the BS has a right to deal with everything on their own schedule. If a BS is being harsh and not living in the present, maybe the WS isn't truly remorseful (the BS gut feeling thing). Then there is always the possibility that a BS will choose to not let the A go despite the WS efforts. R takes two. The BS has the right to not R, the WS has the responsibility to either commit or not commit to R.
I appreciate your answers much!!
You are very welcome. Thank you for asking questions that make me think.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6061 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 4:04 PM, April 7th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

pollybuddy -

I understand what you are saying, that this is the kind of stuff he would talk about in IC if he went...and that's what he called it, his therapy.

I do agree that there may be something wrong if a lot of time has passed and he's still thinking that he "misses" her. However, if he has never gone to IC and has thus never processed this properly, it may be he's just processing more slowly.

I told my IC that I liked being able to talk to the xOM, that Taxi and I "didn't talk anymore" (I know you've heard that before). The IC said, yeah, well, that's what the beginning of all relationships are like. What would have happened if you'd stayed with the xOM? Whereupon I snorted and said, if I were single, I wouldn't have dated him beyond a couple of months.

Do you see what I mean? A lot of processing goes on in "therapy" and if your H has not had help, he is probably stuck.

If he were in therapy and said "I miss her", the T would have said "why?" He would have to come up with "well, she listened to me" and "she smiled at me". Then the T would say, "if you were married to her - really visualize this, you have a different house, different cars, it's been a couple of years - how long would she listen to you?" And he would probably say, "I'm not happy thinking about that" and the T would say "just try it... visualize moving out of your current house, getting married to the OW, buying another house, dealing with the day in and day out stuff", etc., etc.

And the thing about the therapist is that the T is unbiased. You are not, so if you asked "why do you still miss her?", you have entirely different motivations and he has an entire defense system in this exchange. The T would ask "why?" and it would be more clinical and your H would have to really analyze the answer.

Therapy demystifies supposed thoughts and feelings.

Do you understand? A thought is just a thought. He hasn't processed it. And I'm sorry that you had to hear it - because I believe it is transient.

[This message edited by UnexpectedSong at 4:07 PM, April 7th (Wednesday)]


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
mourningtheloss
♀ Member
Member # 24917
Default  Posted: 3:33 PM, April 8th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My FWH says he has no lingering feelings for his MOW but I don't know if he is telling me the truth. He is a major conflict avoider and I believe he keeps much of his feelings about her from me for fear it will reverse our R.

For you WS out there that fell in love with your AP, how can you not still think loving thoughts about the OP if back then you felt you were in love? If you are in love, you are in love right, and will still have lingering love feelings for the OP right? How long does this feeling last?


BS: Me, 52
WS: Him 51 - 7mo EA/ 2mo PA
27 years Married
DS 24, DD 15
DD#1: 04/28/09 Found email from OW and demanded NC and was promised
DD#2 05/15/09 - False R, C never stopped
"Lose a Cheater, Gain a LIFE"

Posts: 513 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Ca
heartache101
♀ Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 5:42 PM, April 8th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WS...
I want to thank you again for all your replies.
I can only imagine the pain you feel and answering our questions is heart wrenching I am sure. It is sooo appreciated that you take the time to answer honestly no matter how hard it hurts.
Again thank YOU!!


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3141 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
icbtih8
♀ Member
Member # 23797
Default  Posted: 8:55 AM, April 9th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Help me interpret this:

I was bawling my eyes out last night telling him how much i was afraid that he would cheat again and i would have no way of knowing. he was trying to calm my fears by telling me how he was doing things differently. he then said "before, you were letting me do..." and then my face froze. he noticed, and told me that he wasn't blaming me but he using email, texting, etc. to chat with women but now i have access to these things which i didn't before.

is he subconsciously still blaming me?

early on he told me that he couldn't believe that i didn't know what he was doing. that i should have somehow known. i guess he felt i had women's intuition or something. he felt during his A's that if i hadn't brought it up then it was as if i was giving him permission to continue because he was sure i knew.

this isn't a sentiment that has been brought up lately or really since then. since "owning his shit" he has always made the effort to show me that his A is not my fault.

his comment yesterday just shocked me. was his comment just a brain fart or do you think he is still blaming me?


D-day #1 - April 29, 2009

Beauty is a calling...a call "to transfigure what has harden or was wounded within you"
-- John O'Donohue


Posts: 5424 | Registered: Apr 2009
jekelnhyde
♀ Member
Member # 6297
Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, April 9th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

am a BS who has frequented this forum on and off for 5yrs. Orig DDay was in 04 but have found I have been trickledtruthed and lied to all along. I asked H to leave this week (which he did) and now am starting to deal with the many things I have found out. My question has to do with the lying.What would make a WS constantly lie and yet swear that he wants the marriage and to work on things. I have gotten really sick over this whole thing but that hasn't even stopped him. He has always been free to leave as I always told him it was okay. I don't understand it and I can't see it from the other point of view. Pls help me to understand the mindset. Thanks
Jekel

Posts: 131 | Registered: Jan 2005 | From: canada
TICKED OFF
♀ Member
Member # 8291
Default  Posted: 6:43 PM, April 9th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question.....How do you as a WS feel when any mention of an a is brought up on the news? Do you get the least bit upset over it, do you feel guilty at all, or do you just not even give it a second thought.

I ask this because of all recent stories that seem to be coming out on the news lately. Again last night I was sitting with my h watching tv and the story about the woman who was murdered in Cancun came on.

I started to wonder what the hell h was thinking what with all the press these stories are getting. If I were in his shoes, I think I would rather not have to listen to any story about infdelity.


Posts: 2390 | Registered: Sep 2005
manAscending
♂ Member
Member # 26919
Default  Posted: 7:12 PM, April 9th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@TICKED OFF

How do you as a WS feel when any mention of an a is brought up on the news?
Most of the time it's not that bad for me. I find it easy to be objective about the news--it's just the newscasters job to report about what is going on in the world.

What really triggers me is songs on the radio. Or when colleages of mine talk about infidelity-related topics in my presence. When that happens, I kind of zone out. I find it hard to engage with people who discuss infidelity so casually when it is an all-consuming part of my life. I feel that those people couldn't relate to my contributions to the discussion, so I say nothing at all. I become angry when people talk about infidelity-related news like they're experts on the subject. "If they only knew," I often think. Or something like, "What the hell do you know about infidelity? Have you ever caused someone that kind of insufferable pain? How could you possibly relate to the self-loathing I sometimes feel. Just shut up, okay?" But, of course, I would never say these things to unknowing company. I bottle it up and move on with my day--and if it bugs me too much, I post about it.


Posts: 1648 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Ontario
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 9:58 PM, April 9th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ticked Off - For me, infidelity takes a very far back seat to other issues in the world. I "trigger" when people speak misconceptions of: autism, mental retardation, and child sexual abuse. Most people don't know squat about those, and really, as horrible as I know my affair was, there is no worse pain than working as hard as I can to help my son maybe be self sufficient someday and realizing that is likely a futile dream.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
justine_88
Member
Member # 5667
Default  Posted: 12:42 AM, April 11th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for any WS that can answer this question.

Husband had a LTA that has been over for almost 5 years. We did all of the hard work to get where we are today, which of course I wish we didn't have to do that the first place because of his A. but that is water under the bridge.

My question is, Maybe I put my WS on a pedestal. Ours was a long time marriage and I was blind-sided. I fell in love with him because of his kindness, intelligence and his strong convictions of morality of what right and wrong in every aspect of his life. We have NEVER been religious or practiced religion.

He instilled that same sense of morality in our children, which in turn devasted them when they found out about A. They questioned their very being and identity, and like anyone that went through this, have felt that they were living a lie in all aspects of their lives and were fooled by him.

Okay, here is the question FINALLY.
I adored my H as well as the kids. He was the best husband, father and he was treated and appreciated as that. Shown, told, and there wasn't a day that went by that he KNEW that he was loved and appreciated.

I don't have him on a pedestal anymore. Does he miss this? Do you notice any difference in your BS actions or behaviours in the way that you are perceived now?
Is there any grieving on your part, that your BS doesn't quite look at you and feel the same feelings that they did pre-affair? I love him, but it is a different kind of love now. Not the adoring, trusting love that he had before from me.
Thoughts? And Thanks for insight.


Posts: 104 | Registered: Oct 2004
1DLW
♀ Member
Member # 21971
Default  Posted: 3:54 AM, April 11th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

justine_88,
I know I miss it. My BH was very much like that with me. Now, not so much. I still sees that he loves me, and the fact that he is still with me shows to me a stonger kind of love kwim?
I jumped off that pedestal myself, and I will never get back up there. I know that is my fault.
I think it just depends on the WS, and how they think, and how remorseful they are.
Some I guess would wish for the way it was before, I see the fact that he is willing to R as a gift that I will take exactly as it is given, no returns, no alterations, exactly as is and enjoy it!


WS 42

Posts: 483 | Registered: Dec 2008
Ethelred
♂ Member
Member # 23332
Default  Posted: 12:20 PM, April 11th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BS question for WS

For those WS who had sexual attraction for your AP, I want to ask a question about your sexual relations with your BS.

- Did you continue to feel sexual attraction for your BS?
- Did having sex with your BS help your relationship with your BS in any way?
- Did you ever feel any kind of a breakthrough in your relationship with your BS due to the sex?

OK, to simplify what I am trying to ask. Assuming a WS and a BS continue to have opportunities to have sex, is there any point in doing this even if other parts of the relationship might still be "stuck", "broken" or "difficult". Can sex between the WS and BS ever mean anything?

Was there anything your BS did for you that enabled you to enjoy it more, even given what was going on in your life at the time? Is there a way for a BS to have sex with a WS that is not needy and would not reduce respect for either party? Thanks for any responses.


Me: BH
Her: WW
Married: almost 20 years
D-Day: 2009 (cybersex for over 5 years, associated EAs); in the dark about PAs, no full disclosure.

Posts: 271 | Registered: Mar 2009
looking forward
♀ Member
Member # 25238
Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, April 11th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To Justine_88:

I don't have him on a pedestal anymore. Does he miss this? Do you notice any difference in your BS actions or behaviours in the way that you are perceived now?
Is there any grieving on your part, that your BS doesn't quite look at you and feel the same feelings that they did pre-affair?

I will grieve for the rest of my life.
Without a doubt, the way my BH perceives me now is the most painful attitude I have ever had to bear. My BH adored me for decades; now, I know he loves me still, but, of course, it will never be the same. We are in R, but there are many times that I know he thinks of me with, not so much disgust any more, but deep, deep sadness.
We are in our 60s. God willing, I have 20 more years on this earth; but will these years be happy and content? I can only hope and pray that, with time, comes ease of mind, comfort, and joy.
I desperately want joy back in our lives.


Memory and hope; one looks backward, and the other forward; one is of today, the other of tomorrow.
"Find a place inside where there's joy, and the joy will burn out the pain." (Joseph Campbell)

Posts: 2804 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: Where a river runs through it
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 6:42 PM, April 11th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Justine_88 - There is no discernible difference in how my H perceives me, at least, not obviously to me. But, personally, I don't care if there were. I didn't have the affair because of anything to do with my H and I'm not fixing myself for him. In the marriage, yeah, we both have to work on stuff. But pedestal? A pedestal is so artificial. IF my H ever had me on one, I would be upset to hear about that. No one is perfect. I would hate to find out if ANYONE ever had me on a pedestal!


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
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