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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's IV
Tried23
♀ Member
Member # 21076
Default  Posted: 4:32 PM, April 5th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

jollum - Please know your feelings are foremost in this situation. I know my husband was close to leaving. His profile on SI says he is staying for the kids. I read this and it hurt like hell but I know I was the one responsible and am at his mercy. I know I have to work my ass off to move this marriage forward after he offered to continue to rebuild.

I will never take another day of our marriage for granted.

Do what you need to do to find peace. Maybe she will pull her head out of the ground or maybe not. You can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped. I'm so sorry you are going through this.


Me: FWS (me) 48
Husband: BS 44
Married: 14 Years, 2 kids (14 and 13)
D-Day 1: 07/27/08
D-Day 2: 4/15/09 Same OM
D-Day 3: 3/2/2010 All disclosed
Reconciling

Posts: 375 | Registered: Sep 2008 | From: MN
cuckhold
♂ Member
Member # 25015
Default  Posted: 6:24 AM, April 6th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Rise and shine. In reference to the "body memory" question, NOT facetious!

[This message edited by cuckhold at 6:25 AM, April 6th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 716 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: michigan
painpaingoaway
♀ Member
Member # 27196
Default  Posted: 7:46 AM, April 6th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

eyestothehills,

However, when I am triggered or scared (say of his facebook account, for example), he gets angry and defensive instead of protective and sensitive. He said "What do you want me to do? I feel like you are trying to control me. I can't help what other people write on my wall." I feel like if the tables were turned, I'd say "babe, I can see you are upset because the facebook account scares you. Your safety is more important that my social networking. Would you feel better if I shut it down or made it a joint page? I want you to feel safe in this M again." That seems like protection. That seems like I'm a priority. His reaction makes me feel like his freedom is more important that my safety.

And when I trigger, it is the same. Angry and defensive. "In all honesty, your hurt makes me angry. I feel like it is getting in the way of us having a good marriage." Why can't he say "love, I'm so sorry your hurting. I hate that I've put you in a place where you have nightmares. I want to help you get back to your old self." That seems like love. That seems like empathy. His response makes me feel like my pain is a burden. So what does this mean? Does it mean that he just doesn't care like I want him to? Is it a male/female difference? Or is there something more to this?

I'm a BS, and I feel exactly the same way you do. I am having a really hard time with this same issue.

BUT, I ask myself 'was WH able to communicate like this and respond to me they way I wanted pre-A?' And, unfortunately for me, the answer is NO. So, I do believe that if they were not 'sensitive souls' before the A, they are probably not going to change dramatically post-A. Although, I must say, my FWH has changed for the better much more than I ever dreamed possible. So, that's a good thing.


me BS female 55/him WS 58
Married 33 years
D-day July 09/he gave me his slut's STD
Watch my movie: "My wayward husband's adventures in STD land":
Episode 1: youtu.be/9Jv0-d_CdYc
Episode 2: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tz822H82Gk

Posts: 6763 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Coastal South
WHavoids
♀ Member
Member # 26847
Default  Posted: 1:40 PM, April 6th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question:

Have any WSs determined, after the fact, that they just don't or didn't want to be married anymore?

I'm beginning to think that my FWH just doesn't want to be married anymore, but won't admit it. He made some comments to the OW about choosing b/w her and the single life rather than me and the single life...and he's never been truly remorseful. I've put up with it for waaaay to long, but can't back up now. Basically he keeps claiming that he wants to be married to me but that "we just can't seem to make it work," that he's emotionally tired, and that he's "tried and tried and failed."

I'm feeling like it's bs and he just wants to live the single life. OH, the year before the A he was spending increasing amounts of time with a recreational softball team drinking beer in the parking lots, going to bars, etc. and this is years past college...


me BS 29
him FWH 32
together 10 years
married 4 years
d day 09/10/09
DIVORCED

Posts: 139 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: NC
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 2:11 PM, April 6th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

eyes2thehills -

So...maybe he doesn't know how

Do you want to tell him literally what words you want him to say? He probably really does not know how.

Not the same situation at all... but I told my husband about how to listen so that I feel heard... If he would just say "uh huh.... yeah?... uh huh... right...", then I would be very happy. Like I said, it's not the same situation at all, but after I did that, and the next time he did do that... it was really, really cool.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6043 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 2:18 PM, April 6th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WHavoids -

He made some comments to the OW about choosing b/w her and the single life rather than me and the single life...

Well, if he did choose her and the single life, it wouldn't really be "single", right? 'Cause he'd be stuck with her and all the warts would come out and it wouldn't be as wonderful as he thinks it would be.

and he's never been truly remorseful. I've put up with it for waaaay to long, but can't back up now.

This is your choice. At any time, you can always say "I've had enough". "I've waited long enough" and now I'm leaving.

Have any WSs determined, after the fact, that they just don't or didn't want to be married anymore?

I have thought this. I have told my H, too, that that was what I was struggling with. At the time, I didn't know what my internal conflict was - superficially it was feeling guilty, wanting to hide from my H, wanting the "single life" - but not really, 'cause I was always going to do exactly what I've always done with the kids. No matter what, they would always be my priority.

Now that I know what I know (sex addiction), it was just the desire to act out. (Which is different from living "the single life".) For me, it was like saying, I want to go somewhere where I can drink in peace. (Except drink is not my compulsion.) When I handle my compulsion, I don't feel the need to run away.

So... that probably doesn't help you at all!


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6043 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
WHavoids
♀ Member
Member # 26847
Default  Posted: 2:58 PM, April 6th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for your thoughts, UnexpectedSong.

To clarify a bit, my FWH and I are in the process of D. I gave the L the $ and list of our terms this morning. So in essence I have said "I've had it" due to his failure to commit, lack of remorse. BUT it just annoys me to no end that he keeps saying "Well I WANT to be married to you...but it just seems like we can't make it work..." I'm wondering if he really just doesn't want to be M anymore and won't man up to it.

Any other thoughts from WSs?

THANKS


me BS 29
him FWH 32
together 10 years
married 4 years
d day 09/10/09
DIVORCED

Posts: 139 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: NC
pollybuddy
♀ Member
Member # 20742
Default  Posted: 3:34 PM, April 6th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Quick background: A discovered 11/19/07, R began, was false R, A discovered again 4/30/09. OW was very close friend/employee. H never wavered on wanting to stay married. Quick enough?

Put VAR in his car last week for the first time since last April (Antiversary coming up, had to see OW last month, just feeling 'uneasy'), and overheard the following (H talks to himself a LOT while driving).

I still miss her, I miss everything about her....then the phone rang and he never went back to those 'thoughts'.

I confronted him next day, but initiallly 'lied' and said I'd had a dream about that. Two seconds after I said that, I admitted I'd lied and that I'd recorded him.

He denies missing her, says he thinks 'lots of different things' and says them out loud, it's his 'private' and alone time. That he wants only me, wants nothing to do with her, that he hates that he hurt me again, but that I'm 'reading it wrong'.

We have talked a few more times, but I still feel horrible. I thought R was going well, but if he is still missing her, this late in the game, I really feel like there is no point to continuing this marriage.

I don't want to be married to someone who is still longing for someone who did so much damage to 'us'...

I know none of you can answer 'for him', I guess what I'm wondering is if anything similar went through YOUR minds.

And please understand, I have been nothing but compassionate and understanding from the very start of this whole mess. I never yell, scream, or thrown things in his face (literally OR figuratively).

I am still hurting badly, and he is a horrible communicator, but I have been very, very patient about healing.

Finding this out has got me so down, and yes, angry, that I just dont' know what to do from here.


ME: BW
HIM: FWH
Married 11/1989
One child, daughter, born 2/99
Affair: EA turned PA for 4 1/2 months.D Day 11/19/07 OW WAS employee/friend.
D Day 2, 4/30/09:OOPS turns out it never ended, I've been in false R for a year and a half.
Status:

Posts: 1004 | Registered: Aug 2008
uncertainone
♀ Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 5:13 PM, April 6th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Polly, I'm so sorry. My sitch is a bit different, but no, I never missed the other person.

I read one of your other posts where you said you don't want to waste your time waiting for him to get his head out of his ass.

I don't blame you and that's exactly where it appears it is at present.

Again, I'm so sorry and wish you the happiness you deserve.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
pollybuddy
♀ Member
Member # 20742
Default  Posted: 5:33 PM, April 6th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks uncertainone, I wish I knew for sure that his head IS up his ass,because other than that comment I taped, he is doing 'everything right'...well, as right as someone who is emotionally immature CAN be, you know?

I just hate that after all the pain and work and trying to heal, I'm faced with leaving my H because I caught him saying he misses her, and that when confronted, I'm told he DOESN'T miss her..well, then, why SAY it?


ME: BW
HIM: FWH
Married 11/1989
One child, daughter, born 2/99
Affair: EA turned PA for 4 1/2 months.D Day 11/19/07 OW WAS employee/friend.
D Day 2, 4/30/09:OOPS turns out it never ended, I've been in false R for a year and a half.
Status:

Posts: 1004 | Registered: Aug 2008
Kwills
♀ Member
Member # 13172
Default  Posted: 5:34 PM, April 6th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Have any WSs determined, after the fact, that they just don't or didn't want to be married anymore?

I struggle with this question as a FWS. FOM is long gone (NC since 2007, PA ended in 2006, EA began to end after NC instituted). But I still question whether I want to stay for ME. Whether I am happy enough being married to give up what I am giving up career wise. Whether I am really a loving spouse or stay because it is convenient and it is too much hassle to make a decision and get a divorce. Whether I really want a divorce or am really happy being married and just hate to admit it because that means I NEED soemone and I hate needing people, just like any good little controlling ACOA person does.

in short, I'm fucked up. The only difference between pre-A and post-A is now I realize i'm fucked up and it has nothing to do with my husband or marriage. It is all me.

Kwills


Posts: 1052 | Registered: Jan 2007
uncertainone
♀ Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 5:38 PM, April 6th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Polly, You should always be first to your spouse. That is not only a reasonable expectation it is truly the only acceptable outcome.

I hope he can do the work on himself needed to be able to give you what he promised in the first place.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
pollybuddy
♀ Member
Member # 20742
Default  Posted: 6:53 PM, April 6th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks again uncertainone..my problem is that he says I AM first...but I'm trying to figure out how to believe that, when I heard what I heard.

I truly hate this stuff. It's draining. He doesn't think he needs any work,or rather, he thinks that us 'working on it together' is what he needs....that he's 'changed'..I was starting to believe that until last week.


ME: BW
HIM: FWH
Married 11/1989
One child, daughter, born 2/99
Affair: EA turned PA for 4 1/2 months.D Day 11/19/07 OW WAS employee/friend.
D Day 2, 4/30/09:OOPS turns out it never ended, I've been in false R for a year and a half.
Status:

Posts: 1004 | Registered: Aug 2008
Tried23
♀ Member
Member # 21076
Default  Posted: 10:15 AM, April 7th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Pollybuddy

I still miss her, I miss everything about her....

He may say he wants to be with you but he is still foggy. He is still romancing what they had. His reaction towards the OP should be one of disgust.

It takes time (alot of it in my case) to get out of the fog and I still had lingering thoughts that I needed to push away but I can honestly say that I look at all my OP's as just faceless, meaningless people that I used and they used me to validate our low self esteem. Saying it doesn't make it real though and your husband needs to dig deep to see why he still has these lingering feelings.

ETA - This doesn't mean that your husband doesn't want the marriage. I was in the same boat and wanted the feelings to go away as I knew I wanted my marriage to survive. IC and disclosing all truths finally brought me back to reality. It was what I needed to move forward.

[This message edited by Tried23 at 10:18 AM, April 7th (Wednesday)]


Me: FWS (me) 48
Husband: BS 44
Married: 14 Years, 2 kids (14 and 13)
D-Day 1: 07/27/08
D-Day 2: 4/15/09 Same OM
D-Day 3: 3/2/2010 All disclosed
Reconciling

Posts: 375 | Registered: Sep 2008 | From: MN
nothereorthere
♀ Member
Member # 20530
Default  Posted: 11:28 AM, April 7th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow! I've heard from some that over four years from finding out about the affair should be long enough for me to let it go. Yet, here I am upset again and as usual my only trigger is my FWH. We was at my Mom's house yesterday for her birthday. My brothers were also there. We ordered pizza and when the pizza person pulled up in their vehicle, my FWH jumps up out of his seat and looks out the window while saying, "I'll check and see if it's a girl, maybe she's hot." He says I'm making a big deal out of nothing, it was just a joke. Can anyone understand why I'm not laughing??? Almost five years after the A and he's still behaving immature and dosen't seem too remorseful or care about my feelings! He thinks he should be able to say and do stuff like that because it's been almost 5 years since his A. When is such behavior ever appropriate in a marriage?!

Posts: 81 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
EmptyCup
♀ Member
Member # 22909
Default  Posted: 11:44 AM, April 7th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nothereorthere,

If it's unacceptable to you, then it's never appropriate, no matter how much time has passed. You need to be assertive and set this as a boundary. Try saying something like "when you do xxx, I feel yyy. I really need you to respect my feelings and stop, even if it seems harmless to you".

I would HATE that kind of behavior as well.


FWW, reconciled with my best friend <3

Nothing much but love to give you, even less have I to hide - Tim O'Brien


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Feb 2009
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 12:25 PM, April 7th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

pollybuddy -

I still miss her, I miss everything about her....then the phone rang and he never went back to hose 'thoughts'.

This is a tough one.

On the one hand, actions matter much more than words. There are plenty of WSes who say the right things, but they don't do them. Words mean nothing in those cases.

And then there is privacy of thoughts and therapy... A lot of thoughts happen, or a lot of statements are made in therapy, that are transient and really do not mean anything that are written in sand that gets blown away by the next breeze, but if the BS hears them, they become this indelible quote etched in bronze.

I am of the opinion that thoughts do not matter, only actions. And in general, one doesn't get to eavesdrop on another person's thoughts.

In your husband's case, he verbalizes his thoughts, so you're kind of stuck hearing them if you use a VAR on him. But, they are still only thoughts.

Can you try to treat them like the brief tracings on sand that they are?


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6043 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
nothereorthere
♀ Member
Member # 20530
Default  Posted: 12:52 PM, April 7th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

EmptyCup

That's the problem, I have already told him how it makes me feel and also that it is unacceptable to me and I need him not to do it. I have told him this so many times, before the A and especially after the A. Counsellers have told him in the past. Everytime, he tells me he won't do it again and yet he does. First, he gets angry and tells me I'm making a big deal out of nothing. Then he says he shouldn't have done it and he's sorry and won't do it again. Then he tells me don't get upset when he changes and his personality is different then. Sounds like manipulation to me and him wanting me to accept his bad behavior. I'm tired of having to say it so often and not getting results. I'm exhausted by it all. I'm fed up with it.


Posts: 81 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
pollybuddy
♀ Member
Member # 20742
Default  Posted: 1:12 PM, April 7th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Unexpected Song, I think I know that what you say is right, that I'm supposed to go by actions and not words (or thoughts), and I do understand what you are saying...I think that I'm just so disappointed to hear that he still misses her, even if it's a deep down,private thought.

I have worked hard, really hard, during this ordeal, and put up with a lot of crap, and it makes me really, really angry that he still has these feelings.

I understand what you are saying, that this is the kind of stuff he would talk about in IC if he went...and that's what he called it, his therapy.

I appreciate your answering this very much, I always get something from your posts.


ME: BW
HIM: FWH
Married 11/1989
One child, daughter, born 2/99
Affair: EA turned PA for 4 1/2 months.D Day 11/19/07 OW WAS employee/friend.
D Day 2, 4/30/09:OOPS turns out it never ended, I've been in false R for a year and a half.
Status:

Posts: 1004 | Registered: Aug 2008
pollybuddy
♀ Member
Member # 20742
Default  Posted: 1:16 PM, April 7th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He may say he wants to be with you but he is still foggy. He is still romancing what they had. His reaction towards the OP should be one of disgust.

It takes time (alot of it in my case) to get out of the fog and I still had lingering thoughts that I needed to push away but I can honestly say that I look at all my OP's as just faceless, meaningless people that I used and they used me to validate our low self esteem. Saying it doesn't make it real though and your husband needs to dig deep to see why he still has these lingering feelings.

ETA - This doesn't mean that your husband doesn't want the marriage. I was in the same boat and wanted the feelings to go away as I knew I wanted my marriage to survive. IC and disclosing all truths finally brought me back to reality. It was what I needed to move forward.

Tried, thank you also for answering, it is so nice to be able to ask these questions and get answers from 'real' people.

I guess that is where I struggle...saying it does make it real to me. I don't want to be with someone who is still 'longing' for someone else, I've told him that from the beginning. It shouldn't be so much 'work' to stop thinking about her, it shouldn't be so much 'work' to want only me. He SAYS all the right things,he DOES many of the right things,but if he isn't FEELING it, it depresses me.


ME: BW
HIM: FWH
Married 11/1989
One child, daughter, born 2/99
Affair: EA turned PA for 4 1/2 months.D Day 11/19/07 OW WAS employee/friend.
D Day 2, 4/30/09:OOPS turns out it never ended, I've been in false R for a year and a half.
Status:

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