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Newest Member: ThrownAwayTwice (43226)

I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's IV
always-hope
♀ Member
Member # 27814
Default  Posted: 11:08 AM, April 1st (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UnexpectedSong

I love WH, he does have many good qualities, can be & has been a loving & giving husband & father.

There were many good times, when he was loving & giving towards me, maybe not as much as me but that is my nature. There is more good than bad, the bad just sticks out more right now.

I think right now if WH would own up to the EA & do my must-haves then we can work on the other stuff. He is stuck on we have to work on the other stuff first & the EA is nothing, wants me to get over it or leave it as is.


BW me- 51
WH 50
3 DS
M 27 yrs
STD/PA? in 91 Many EA's, LT(10 yr)EA/PA
DDays: many -started 2005
TT never stopped, don't think I will ever have the full truth
SOW- WH's former HS 'friend/whore'
Limbo

Posts: 307 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: The Heartland
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 1:11 PM, April 1st (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

always-hope -

I think right now if WH would own up to the EA & do my must-haves then we can work on the other stuff. He is stuck on we have to work on the other stuff first & the EA is nothing, wants me to get over it or leave it as is.

Nothing happens in isolation. You say if he owns up to the EA, etc... But, has he ever owned up to other things in the past? Does he own his DV history? If your IC suggested you carry around pepper spray, my guess is that some small part of you believes he will be violent again. Do you truly see him changing? Do you think you can convince him that an EA is an affair? (And you really think in 4.5 years that it never got physical?)

What does your life look like in 5 years? In 10 years? In 30 years?


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
always-hope
♀ Member
Member # 27814
Default  Posted: 2:05 PM, April 1st (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If your IC suggested you carry around pepper spray, my guess is that some small part of you believes he will be violent again.

I don't think he would be stupid enough to do that to his image again.

(And you really think in 4.5 years that it never got physical?)

She lives in another state far away & I'm convinced usless I get proof that it never got physical with her.

Thank you for your reply, I am taking all the precautions for my safety as well as my kids.


BW me- 51
WH 50
3 DS
M 27 yrs
STD/PA? in 91 Many EA's, LT(10 yr)EA/PA
DDays: many -started 2005
TT never stopped, don't think I will ever have the full truth
SOW- WH's former HS 'friend/whore'
Limbo

Posts: 307 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: The Heartland
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 2:43 PM, April 1st (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

always-hope,

He also said I should listen to the Pastor, forgive & let go of my grudges. (NC & NC letter) Am I holding a grudge by asking for NC & NC letter?
Wow. Your WH is very manipulative. How can you even question yourself about this?

Your questions about whether or not you let his EA go on to long are misplaced. You didn't let it go on too long, he did. It's just that you should have called him on this long ago.

You are being treated like crap right now. Your WH doesn't need to just admit that this is an EA/PA, he needs to realize own so much more of his own shit than he is right now.

She lives in another state far away & I'm convinced usless I get proof that it never got physical with her.
Even this statement is you enabling him. Does he travel for work? Did he take any trips alone over the last five years? Who's to say she never visited your home town. In a way though, whether or not it was a PA doesn't matter. an EA is just as devestating.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6056 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
healingwife
♀ Member
Member # 23912
Default  Posted: 4:47 AM, April 2nd (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Unexpected, thank you for your thoughtful response to my issues. I am sorry it has taken me so long to let you know how much I appreciate a WS's input to my particular situation.

You are right: I would rather have a successful R than to be right. Our MC told us that much of our work at this point will be in "shades of gray" rather than "black and white." And it's so hard, because our first antiversary is coming up in a couple of weeks, and I can honestly feel the underlying tension and sadness building -- I am truly trying to process much of it myself. At 11+ months out, I find myself in the anger stage -- which certainly doesn't make one desirable in the least, right?

As for seeing past depression... how much do you know about depression? You know that part of depression is apathy and being unable to see past the depression itself, right? It really does not help the depressed person to say "the sun will shine tomorrow" and "after the storm comes the rainbow". If your H is really depressed, he can't get himself out of bed, much less put it aside to help you.

I wanted to address this particular part of your note, as that subject has been at the root of so much.

You see, I have been suffering from depression since about a year pre-A. I was seeking help both mentally and physically, working through issues so that I could get well. During the time of the A, my career came to a screeching halt when a contract fell through...I was laid off for the first time in my life. At the same time, I felt my H pulling away and detaching from our relationship and the family; I just didn't understand why. All I knew was that I was alone and frightened of these deeper feelings of being cast aside.

In the meantime, my H watched me as I went deeper, but did nothing except detach further. I was frantically trying to find another job (I did), and at the same time handle the household and two (amazing) daughters. Unbelievably, we still had an active sex life -- I forced myself to try harder, as I thought that if I could keep him happy in the bedroom, it would somehow damper what I thought was difficulty living with a depressed spouse (me).

When I found out about the EA that August (2008), he immediately threw the OW under the bus -- of this I am certain. Other than the final NC, there has been no other contact with her or anyone else.

So I feel like I saw past my depression to try and please him -- and he took it and strayed anyway. So I give him the gift of R, and he can't do the same. I know everyone is different, but it feels so unfair that he seems to get it in so many other ways...just not here.
I know he loves me. It's just that this sex issue has been slowly getting worse over the last 18 months, and I often wonder how he is going to ever reconcile everything.

I see that someone bumped a thread in this forum that deals with the very situation I am facing -- Dealing with spouses who don't want sex. I read that forum for a long while and found many other people who have been able to articulate this delicate issue better than I could here.

Anyway, thank you again for your response. I hope that other WSs could give me more insight.

(Oh, if there are any WS's who could post in that "don't want sex" forum, I know it would be greatly appreciated!javascript:AddSmily(' ')


BS - me
FWH - him
married 20 years
Lovingly in R
EA/PA from April-August 2008
Discovered EA - 8/28/08
Discovered PA - 4/17/09 (admitted on his own)

Posts: 482 | Registered: May 2009
always-hope
♀ Member
Member # 27814
Default  Posted: 7:15 AM, April 2nd (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

baxtersbff

Your questions about whether or not you let his EA go on to long are misplaced. You didn't let it go on too long, he did. It's just that you should have called him on this long ago

I did call him on many times starting five years ago but got the 'just friends' speech. I wasn't strong enough emotionally & had no support systems. I was a mess back then, I'm getting better now & I am learnng to stand up for myself & the kids.

Does he travel for work? Did he take any trips alone over the last five years?

No he doesn't travel at all. The bar stuff & going away for the weekends were from our early marriage. The only weekend he took in the last 5 yrs was Dec '09, five days before he moved out.

I still have a gut feeling that it is EA only. He admits to phone/emailed/texts, there was nothing physical so in his mind it wasn't an A.

he needs to realize own so much more of his own shit than he is right now

Yes he does need to own everything about the EA(s) & his part of the pre-EA problems as I am owning (& working on) my part of the pre-EA problems.

He is so defensive to me right now which is why I think if he does go to IC & is told by a relative stranger that it was an EA because of A, B & C he will begin to see that I am not over-reacting.

Thanks for your reply, it is helpful talking to people who have BTDT.


BW me- 51
WH 50
3 DS
M 27 yrs
STD/PA? in 91 Many EA's, LT(10 yr)EA/PA
DDays: many -started 2005
TT never stopped, don't think I will ever have the full truth
SOW- WH's former HS 'friend/whore'
Limbo

Posts: 307 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: The Heartland
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 1:46 PM, April 2nd (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

always-hope -

I think if he does go to IC & is told by a relative stranger that it was an EA because of A, B & C he will begin to see that I am not over-reacting

If he'll read a book, get him "Not Just Friends". That book explains everything.

The issue with getting an IC is you have to make sure the IC understands infidelity. If you get one like my first one, who asked my H what was so wrong with an open marriage?, that won't help a non-remorseful WS. (Even in my foggy state, I knew that wasn't the "right" stance for a therapist.)

[This message edited by UnexpectedSong at 1:46 PM, April 2nd (Friday)]


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
stuck808
♂ New Member
Member # 24976
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, April 2nd (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My W says that she doesn't want the M because she just doesn't want to be M anymore.

That's what she's said from day one 2 years ago. We're separated, yet she hasn't filed papers or done anything to move forward. We still do many things together with the kids and this past weekend we ran into one of her coworkers and she introduced me as her husband.

So does she really want a D? I wanted to get things moving towards R and I was thinking of suggesting C. She never wanted to before.

What should I do? How can I get the loving feelings back from her?


Posts: 27 | Registered: Jul 2009
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 2:48 PM, April 2nd (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Stuck,

What should I do? How can I get the loving feelings back from her?


I would recommend you read the book, "Fall In Love, Stay In Love", by Dr. Willard Harley, Jr.

Tons of information that addresses you questions perfectly!


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
stuck808
♂ New Member
Member # 24976
Default  Posted: 3:46 PM, April 2nd (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Card. What if she doesn't want to do anything. Will it work if I put in all the work alone?

Posts: 27 | Registered: Jul 2009
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 7:01 PM, April 2nd (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

stuck808,

Is she still working with OM? What are her reasons for not wanting to be married? How much communication have you had recently regarding the A?

Two years seperated is a long time.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6056 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
stuck808
♂ New Member
Member # 24976
Default  Posted: 9:22 PM, April 2nd (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BFF and others.

No she is no longer working for him. He retired about 4 weeks ago and she actually had the nerve to be planning his Retirement Party. She actually told me that she didn't realize it would hurt me.

2 years is a long time, but just now I see her coming out of her fog a little. For the past few weeks, she's been talking to me, engaging in conversation, but hasn't actually taken any initiative to call me. It's always I have to do something.

Last weekend we ran into one of her co-workers and she introduced me to her as her husband.

Does this sound like someone who wants a D? Or in the fog? Should I pull back and see if she follows? I don't know what to do anymore.


Posts: 27 | Registered: Jul 2009
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 12:46 PM, April 3rd (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Stuck808,

I was in my fog for 2 years give or take. During that period, there were glimmers of the H my wife wanted that would shine through. It sounds like you have seen that with your WW. If OM is out of the picture, then she may be emerging, but it isn't like she will just step out of it and be done, sometimes there is another fog bank to go through before you finally get out in the clear air again.

She may be at a point where she is ready to start working on things, whether it is R, the M, or her own stuff. There have been to threads on SI recently that show what it is like for a WS (or potential WS in on case) to finally see the light. But in both cases, they sort of knew something was amiss with their thinking and they were both sort of ready to recognize the truth of what their situation really was. One is in the Wayward forum, the other is in General.

As far as pulling back, the 2 year seperation is a problem. I think other BS's would be in a better place to tell you whether something like a 180 would work.

If you have seen some change in the last 4 weeks (since her OM retired), then maybe this is her time to start seeing things as they are, as you have seen them. If she is there, it may still take her a while to move to a point where she can see saving the M or R'ing with you.

Does she know about SI? Maybe you could find that one post in the Healing Library that fits best, print it off and read it with her.

For the most part, every WS thinks they are completely unique and that their situation is different than everybody else, that noone will ever understand it. I was that way. Your WW may be the same way, but hopefully she would be able to see beyond that and recognize her story in ours.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6056 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
Rise And Shine
♀ Member
Member # 27513
Default  Posted: 1:47 PM, April 3rd (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've never used this forum so I'm not sure if I'm supposed to jump in with a question or if there's a specific procedure to do this. So, sorry if I'm doing this wrong...

My question for the WS's has to do with body image.

I'm looking for the truth. Not what sounds good, but the whole dirty truth

My WH's brief A was with a MW 11 years younger then myself. Not a very attractive woman but she had a body. Very tall and thin.

I'm 46, the proud mom of four children. I've always cared about my appearance. I run and am all around active. My weight fluctuates between a size 2 and 4. I look good in clothes, but, I'm 46 and I have children, and I breast fed those children, and I'm 46

I was always proud of my stretch marks and the new lines that formed around my eyes each year. Never wanted to have my breasts hiked up. Didn't mind gravity. I always said that my imperfections were natures way of telling the world that I'm a proud mom with life experience.

I'm not feeling that way much any longer.

My WH has been great since dday almost 1 year ago. I guess you could say I'm lucky as far as WS's go. But this new self body image is a real stumbling block for me.

I can't compete with a body 11 years my junior. Why do I feel I'm competing? I guess because men are so visual by nature.

He tells me that this is all in my head. That I'm beautiful. That he loves my body...blah blah blah...

But I don't see how he can. I mean, it's not like other aspects of an A. I'm not in anyway threatened by his infatuation or their 'great conversations, or the nice things she said to him and about him...all of that stuff, in my mind and his mind, is just temporary. It doesn't sustain in the long term. But going from a great body back to a real woman's body has got to be hard. It's got to leave a lasting impression.

My question: If your AP was younger or in better shape or whatever, how did that affect your physical desire for you BS? For how long? What goes on in your mind regarding this?


April 25, 2009

Posts: 3263 | Registered: Feb 2010
GroundZero
♀ Member
Member # 27853
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, April 3rd (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

R&S,

I am a female WS, so that may impact where I am coming from, but my younger OM's body wasn't better than my BH's. Of course I found OM very attractive, but physically my BH was more attractive. I think as for most people in love relationships, the sexual attraction sprang more from feelings of intimacy than from appearance. And I can tell you that for myself, confidence is the sexiest thing of all.

I can totally understand how your self esteem took a hit post-A. But I am certain that you are just as beautiful to your H as he says you are. And it sounds like you were really confident before. I have had a lot of success with the "fake it til you make it" theory on this front. E.g. "Damn right I am beautiful and you love my body - I am beautiful and you're one lucky man to have me." When I act confident, even if I do not believe it one iota, I start to actually feel confident and I know that my confidence makes me more attractive without changing a thing about my physical attributes. If you start pretending you feel the way about yourself that you did before, you may find that you start to feel that confidence come back.

I'd also like to point out that I am about the same age as the OW in your case, and I look pretty good in clothes too. But I've had kids and have the battle wounds to show for it. And my body was far from perfect even before I had kids. Just because she's younger and thin does not mean that she's got you beat appearance-wise. There are plenty of 46 year old women who would smoke me in the looks department - I bet you're one of them.

But even if OW had the body of a Victoria's Secret model below that not-so-attractive face, your love, devotion, and confidence will make you sexier any day. And not to degrade myself, but I'd say that the neediness and brokeness I exhibited entering into the A and especially as the A continud made me far less attractive as well, no matter how great my body may or may not be.

I hope you'll hear from WH's in response to your question too, because I know you are particularly interested in the male opinion.


Out of clutter, find simplicity; out of discord, find harmony; in the middle of difficulty lies opportunity. Einstein

Posts: 1777 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: Land of the Sweet Lovely Kiddos
Rise And Shine
♀ Member
Member # 27513
Default  Posted: 2:53 PM, April 3rd (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

GroundZero, thank you. You're wonderful! I appreciate your response very much.

I hear you. I practice all the time what you're saying:

"Damn right I am beautiful and you love my body - I am beautiful and you're one lucky man to have me."

But it's not working so well for me.

I feel like he's settling for carob after eating chocolate. Like I'm a veggie burger after he's had a real hamburger.

Crazy, I know, but this one is my BIG issue.

My H is a few years older then me and I find him very sexualy appealing despite his age appropriate body. But that's because I'm a woman and woman tend to be physically attracted to a man because of their mind or what's in the man's heart.

Men aren't like that. Even if they are, even if I can train my mind AND his to believe that his wife is the most beautiful and sexy woman on earth...

I'm still carob!


April 25, 2009

Posts: 3263 | Registered: Feb 2010
EmptyCup
♀ Member
Member # 22909
Default  Posted: 3:17 PM, April 3rd (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Men aren't like that. Even if they are, even if I can train my mind AND his to believe that his wife is the most beautiful and sexy woman on earth...

I'm still carob!

OMG, you're a size 2-4 and you think you're carob? R&S, my A was mostly an EA, so I can't comment on your questions from that perspective. I can really understand your self-esteem being hit after your husband's affair, but there's *always* someone out there who's more attractive than you are. If that's all your husband was interested in, he wouldn't be with you. I know men are physical, but for them it's also about the whole package, the whole person. You have her beat in so many ways, and he obviously thinks so because he's with you, not her. This really is in your head, which isn't fair, because his actions put it there.

It's terrible that women think they have to compete against this one standard of young and thin. Not everyone is young, not everyone is thin, but we can all be beautiful. Real beauty comes from the inside.


FWW, reconciled with my best friend <3

Nothing much but love to give you, even less have I to hide - Tim O'Brien


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Feb 2009
Rise And Shine
♀ Member
Member # 27513
Default  Posted: 9:15 PM, April 3rd (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

but there's *always* someone out there who's more attractive than you are

I know, Emptycup, but I just didn't think he'd be with one after we married.

Here's the thing, it's not that I don't feel attractive or that I lack sex appeal. I feel really good about myself when I'm out in the world. It's when I come home to him. That's when I lose it.

If that's all your husband was interested in, he wouldn't be with you.

I know he's with me for the whole package but I can't help feeling that this one aspect he can 'live with' in order to have the rest of the package.

It's just a shitty pill to swallow. I've never felt this way before.


April 25, 2009

Posts: 3263 | Registered: Feb 2010
nothereorthere
♀ Member
Member # 20530
Default  Posted: 11:31 PM, April 3rd (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My FWH and I was at his Mom's house when he brought up to her something out of the blue. For ten minutes he went on and on about a friend of ours that asked him why he has me in his cell phone contacts with "Wife" in front of my name. Finally, I commented that maybe our friend was concerned for me. Well, he then jumps up out of his chair, throws his hands in the air and while looking at his Mom says, "they think I'm a chronic cheater!" First of all, they do not think that. Second of all, his Mom had asked him the same question not too long ago and so did I. Third of all, yes it triggered me. Yet when I told him in the car as we were leaving that I didn't like it and asked him why he said what he did, he said it's because it makes him mad that our friend asked him that twice. (She asked him that MONTHS ago) He got angry and didn't even seem to get that I told him it hurt me that he said that in front of his Mom when we was all just sitting there talking nicely before he started all that. WTF was that all about??? Yes! He did cheat on Me!! AND, he cheated on his first wife!How does he expect me to feel about what he said?! I felt like I was watching a grown man throw a tantrum. Sometimes, I feel like he thinks he shouldn't have to put up with any of the aftershocks of his A. He's the one that brought this mess into our lives and he's the one that triggers me by saying or doing something when I'm doing perfectly fine. What is his problem???

[This message edited by nothereorthere at 11:42 PM, April 3rd (Saturday)]


Posts: 81 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 8:04 AM, April 4th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nothereorthere,

I guess I am not 100% sure what you are asking. Is it more about why did he get upset or why does he not seem to realize that you were hurt by his actions?

So it sounds like your WH has cheated twice that you know of. Once on you, and once on XW. If he is upset about the chronic cheater label that you, his mom, and your friend have asked him about, then I could understand that it would be upsetting to him to be perceived this way. I remember telling my BW one thing that was absolutely true. Sadly, it was the only true thing I told her about the A and she didn't believe me. At that moment I got very upset. Looking back now I can see that she would doubt me on anything. But that feeling of not being trusted is tough to deal with even though most WS know that we dug our own hole. Sometimes that frustration is going to boil over, so that may be part of why he got upset and frustrated by the perception that people are labelling him a chronic cheater.

In instances like these, thoughts of how our actions, or in this case reactions, appear to be self-centered are not there. Your WH is not going to pick up on all of your triggers. And even though you told him, his indignation and frustration got the better of him on this point.

If he only cheated twice, in his mind does that qualify him as a chronic cheater and does he deserve to have three people who are close to him question him on this? If he has cheated more than that, then maybe he is having a hard time accepting that he may indeed be a chronic cheater.

That period before a new realization occurs can be frustrating as hell. It has happened to me a few times, where I have believed something so strongly and then realized that I was wrong about it. The more frustrating times have been when it was my BW who was right about something all along...


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6056 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
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