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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's IV
girlinthemirror
♀ New Member
Member # 24894
Default  Posted: 2:18 AM, February 21st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My question is this:

My WH ended his A and came back home. Out of the blue the OW calls him up, and now they are talking/emailing ect on a regular basis. He tells me they are just "friends" and it is not right of me to ask him to give up that friendship. That it is innocent. As a WS is this a normal thought process? Did any of you feel that you could be friends with the OP?

I guess I am wondering if this is a normal step and if it is something I should be ok with. From your perspective is this a normal feeling, want or desire. And from someone who has been on that side whats the best way for me to handle this?


Me - BW, 36
Him - WH, 33
Married - 11 years

Broken, Alone and Afraid....


Posts: 19 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: BC, Canada
Tryin2010
♀ Member
Member # 27216
Default  Posted: 10:14 AM, February 21st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question:
FWH tells me that he never compared sex (of any type) from when he was with me to when he was with OW.
He compared makeup -the way we cooked, the way we dressed, the type shoes we wore. I think he HAD to compare sex - he swears no, he never did that even when he was younger and 'dating' Isn't it reasonable to think that there were comparisons made? She was much younger, but 70lbs heavier or so, and he said she was the 'bad girl' he always though of me as the 'good girl' that's why he was so easy to have certain types of 'encounters' with her and not with me - even if I'd wanted to..... Help! Insight please


Mom of 5 - yours mine and ours
Together 16 years
His A 9 months before I found out on 5/09 and locked him out
Reconciliation 9/09
Still 'Tryin' to move on
Therapy weekly!

Posts: 113 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: New York
Tryin2010
♀ Member
Member # 27216
Default  Posted: 10:19 AM, February 21st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

girl in the mirror,
There is no such thing as "Just" friends. As a matter of fact putting the Just in front of friends usually means they're not. After an A is over there is to be total NC from the WS to the OP. So no, do not accept this unless you are always willing to be the 3rd person in your marriage.


Mom of 5 - yours mine and ours
Together 16 years
His A 9 months before I found out on 5/09 and locked him out
Reconciliation 9/09
Still 'Tryin' to move on
Therapy weekly!

Posts: 113 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: New York
SI Staff
Moderator
Member # 10
Red  Posted: 11:13 AM, February 21st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Reminder for BSes in this thread:

Questions in this thread are directed at WSes and should only be answered by WSes. Please do not answer other BS' questions.


Posts: 10000 | Registered: May 2002
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 2:19 PM, February 21st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

girlinthemirror,

It is a normal thought process for a WS still in the fog. Actually, I knew I could never be friends with OW, so I felt it was all or nothing.

So while it is normal behaviour, it is totally unacceptable and needs to stop now. there is no way for R to happen if OW is still in the picture.

As far as what to do, there are standard things you can ask for but it is up to your WS whether or not he is going to pull his head out of his ass. There are things a BS can do, you will get your best advice from them, with a little adjustment for your own situation.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6061 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
leftoolate
♀ Member
Member # 22658
Default  Posted: 2:52 AM, February 22nd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi girlinthemirror,

As a WS is this a normal thought process?

That's a contradiction in terms, I'd say. No, seriously, BaxtersBFF is right. It's a common occurance, but that doesn't make it right. I only gradually started to see the need to avoid the other man, all in all it did take a few weeks. Your husband has no business being friends with the other woman. What on earth is worth losing you over that he 'shouldn't give up'?

Did any of you feel that you could be friends with the OP?

No. Did figure I could handle being in the same space as him, though.

I guess I am wondering if this is a normal step and if it is something I should be ok with.

It's a lapse, he gave in, it's not OK.

From your perspective is this a normal feeling, want or desire.

Well, yes. It takes a while for the other person to be purged from the system. The addiction analogy works well in many cases. Withdrawal can take a long time, but it can't start if he's still getting high.

And from someone who has been on that side whats the best way for me to handle this?

Handle it like you'd handle an affair - because that's what it is. I'm so sorry.

He might benefit from SI, if you'd be willing to share that with him and if (big if) he'd give up the other woman.

Sorry I don't have more advice for you.

~L.


If you came this far, you're looking for something. - Jrazz

Posts: 811 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Europe
leftoolate
♀ Member
Member # 22658
Default  Posted: 3:06 AM, February 22nd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sadanddistressed, I really don't mean to be flippant her, but really... Do you want him back?

Answer that first, then take it from there. If you still have contact with him, make sure you focus on you for now. That's not playing hard to get, that's just plain sensible. I'd say let him know what you expect from him. You'll probbably get better advice on this in the General forum.

~L.

[This message edited by leftoolate at 3:14 AM, February 22nd (Monday)]


If you came this far, you're looking for something. - Jrazz

Posts: 811 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Europe
leftoolate
♀ Member
Member # 22658
Default  Posted: 3:13 AM, February 22nd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi lostinlove4ever,

Do you think he will realize what he did and will eventually called to make amends?

He may, under the right circumstances, eventually realize what he did. In that eventuality he may, under the right circumstances, try to make amends. You can, perhaps, contribute to the circumstances, but you can't control them, or him.

Or is he ready to just move on with his life?

No, he seems to be ready to move on with his delusion.

Get your own mental, emotional en practical ducks in a row. If you feel he's dependable, invite him to get his ducks in a row. See if the rows match.

~L.


If you came this far, you're looking for something. - Jrazz

Posts: 811 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Europe
leftoolate
♀ Member
Member # 22658
Default  Posted: 8:48 AM, February 22nd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Tryin2010,

Question:
FWH tells me that he never compared sex [...] I think he HAD to compare sex - he swears no, ... Isn't it reasonable to think that there were comparisons made?

Yes, very reasonable. Reason has very little to say in most affairs, though. Excessive compartimentalization works wonders in keeping the different worlds separate in the wayward mind. At least it did for me. I remember the few occasions when reality and idiocy collided vividly, they shocked me quite a bit (though obviously not enough).

I only started having real trouble (triggers) after the affair was outed - somehow I had to 'integrate' my different and incompatble views and actions. That was hard - but if you cope by putting stuff in different, separate, and closed boxes, it should be no big problem.

How did your husband rationalize the affair? That gave me the clues I needed to the issues that needed work.

~L.

[This message edited by leftoolate at 8:49 AM, February 22nd (Monday)]


If you came this far, you're looking for something. - Jrazz

Posts: 811 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Europe
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 9:12 AM, February 22nd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We've been in R since D-Day - nearly 6 months ago. We've had a few setbacks, but at the moment things appear good. My h has even begun reading some of the articles I've printed out for him from this site & seems to be getting something out of them. (I'm sure he'd get more out of them if he'd read them more quickly - but he's not a big reader...)
Anyway, I continue to worry about his engaging in another A or retuning to the same ow in the future. (I believe she'd take him back in a heartbeat.) In a nutshell - we both ignored our relationship while we worked & raised 4 young children. I became increasingly resentful of him, believing that he wasn't contributing as much as he should to our family responsibilities. He became increasingly frustrated with my lack of interest in sex & lack of attention to him. He says that if our relationship was good, he doesn't think he would've had the affair & that it was hard to ignore someone giving him so much attention when he wasnt getting any at home. (I fully realize the A wasnt my fault- I'm just giving you the background). Anyway, I told him I am considering us to be dating & at some point we would have to make a decision about whether we want to be together. I told him that if I knew someone had an A I wouldn't even go on a date with him - so why should I reconcile. I told him I'd rather lose him than go through another DDay. He swears it will never happen again. He says he doesn't plan on having another A - never had one for years & years. I told him that I doubt he planned to have this A & he said he would never do it again because it's just not worth losing everything. I felt this fell a bit short. (We've talked about the A at length so I suspect he feels everything's been said already). But, I told him to me, that answer just refers to the penalty for doing something wrong - so if he doesnt think he'll get caught... He also said he doesn't want to hurt me again, but the broken nc & lying to me about his whereabouts on the 2 occasions that I know of - have hurt me a great deal. Edited because I just remembered what my question was - lol I'm totally losing it- I guess I want to hear that he doesn't have any need to have an A. I guess I feel that his answer about the A not being worth it implies that it would be great to have sex with someone else, but it's not worth losing me/our family. In his situatin, he had an A with a coworker, they didn't really have a real relationship in the sense that she made absolutely no demands upon him, they never fought & he really has nothing negative to say about her - doesnt even think her having an A with a married man is wrong. I'm worried that he must have experienced some really great stuff in this A (He hasnt said so, but the girl exudes sex & I believe she's a lot more expressive & attentive than me - I'm way more conservative)and I'm worrying that - like a drug- he may want to experience that again. I realize that everyone is different & there's no crystal ball here - I guess I was just curious as to whether this is an ongoing battle. Your thoughts would be appreciated.

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 9:21 AM, February 22nd (Monday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
EmptyCup
♀ Member
Member # 22909
Default  Posted: 9:24 AM, February 22nd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood -

I think of my A as a "perfect storm". Many things came together to get me there -- my marital problems, external things such as my kids being old enough to give me a little breathing space, AND flaws within myself. Of course we want to improve our marriage, but it's as important if not more so for me to fix those flaws within myself that let me make the terrible choice of having an affair instead of dealing with my marriage problems in a different way.

I think it's seeing this in me - that I'm working hard to ensure I can never be that person again, no matter what else is going on my my life, that gives my husband the feeling of safety.

Do you see that in your husband?

[This message edited by EmptyCup at 9:24 AM, February 22nd (Monday)]


FWW, reconciled with my best friend <3

Nothing much but love to give you, even less have I to hide - Tim O'Brien


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Feb 2009
heartache101
♀ Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 10:03 AM, February 22nd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WS Hufi-Pufi and BaxtersBFF thankyou.

I guess what I was really looking for is.
How does that statement make you feel inside? Does it trigger you?


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3141 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
dismantled
Member
Member # 26887
Default  Posted: 10:13 AM, February 22nd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Of course we want to improve our marriage, but it's as important if not more so for me to fix those flaws within myself that let me make the terrible choice of having an affair instead of dealing with my marriage problems in a different way....
I think it's seeing this in me - that I'm working hard to ensure I can never be that person again, no matter what else is going on my my life, that gives my husband the feeling of safety.

I wish so much that my WH would understand that his efforts would be so much better focused here than on "us". He seems to be getting there, but I wish so much he would just go all in with it, go to IC, and fix himself so that I could have some hope to respect and possibly even trust him again. Focusing on the issues in him that allowed him to do this is the one thing that could ever earn my trust.


Me-BW
Dday: 1-24-08, Two years of false R and Dday after Dday after Dday after Dday ever since...

It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
-- Agnes Repplier


Posts: 216 | Registered: Dec 2009
roccodom
♀ Member
Member # 19714
Default  Posted: 10:23 AM, February 22nd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm going to explain this the best I can - but it's complicated.

We are 18 months or so out. He has shown signifigant changes - better in many ways than he has ever been. And I make sure to let him know.

As time goes by - our conversations and confrontations about the A have diminished which I'm sure is common. But last night - I tried to talk with him about how I was feeling. In the past, we have had long conversations about how he feels attacked during these times. We've covered it in MC and on our own. It's been a problem for us for years. How do I talk to him. He has admitted that he's not sure there is a way to talk to him where he doesn't feel attacked.

So... I start off with telling him how wonderful I think he has been in the past few months and thank him for it. And that I just want to share with him what a difficult time I am having recently - feeling heart-broken, and having racing thoughts and just wonder whether I have all the pieces?

I can visibly see him withdraw from me and put up a wall.

I ask him whether I have the whole truth and whether there are lies of ommission. Very coldly he responds "You have the truth - what more do you want. Those lies were a function of being in an A. Could you find inconsistancies if you go over every detail - probably!"

I ask if other woman flirt with him and proposition him "Yes, all the time"

Ask if he approaches these situations and work differently because of the A and his understanding of it now - "No, I don't do anything differntly. I don't have some new way."

Ask if he thinks there is something he does to invite all the propositions since I find it unusual. His answer "No and I'm sorry you think it's so unusual"

Really this is just an example of how these conversations go. He is almost defiant and provacative on purpose. It's very hurtful, but it's as if any conversation is adversarial and so that is his posture and that is how he reacts to questions.

I will tell you, I am very careful as to how I speak. I try never to be accusatory.

This is just one topic - he does this about everything.

Then - he'll come back later and tell me he is sorry and talk about the subject or not.

I can't understand why he would be so hurtful when he has seemed remorseful and caring.

He will often throw in there, "We are better now so it's not an issue (the other woman at work)"

This irritates me because for 4 years before the affair (ever since he came home from Iraq) - I tried to talk to him. I knew something was going on with him. And talking to him was like talking to him last night. NOt about US, but about him acting as if he were attacked and thus spiteful, rude, adversarial comments.

I am trying to work on bringing up my difficulties with him because our MC tells me I can't suppress all of this. I need to get it out and share with him so he can help. But it scares the crap out of me that I am going to get THAT person.

I will say that he has improved this and more often is open. But what do I take from these difficult conversations? Is that the truth? Is that how he feels? It just undercuts everything? Please help me understand.


BS - me (45) WS - him (45)
married 16 yrs (DS 11yrs, DD 9yrs)
#1 PA - DDay 12/97
#2 PA DDay 5/08
#3 PA DDay 2/12
Trying R
Buddhism teaches that a craving for things outside ourselves causes an unhappy and pointless search for security.


Posts: 789 | Registered: May 2008 | From: MO
Godsgirl
♀ Member
Member # 27521
Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, February 22nd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I posted this question on the reconcilation site but I guess I should have posted here.

My question is how do I get my WH to understand that lying to avoid hurting me even more does not help?

My WH swears that he should have never come clean because all it caused was devastation and pain for me and our relationship will never be the same again. He claims that the lies were to protect me not himself. He is opening up about the A's but he is also holding back. I can't get him to understand that TT is more painful and I can't rebuild trust with him if he thinks lying by omision is better.

Is this just something WH has to figure out on his own?


Me-BS (38)
Him-SAWH (38)
4 precious kiddos
Multi DDay's,False R
4 Ea's, 1 ONS, 3 STA's, & 2 LTA's & 1 OC

I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength!


Posts: 836 | Registered: Feb 2010
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 11:39 AM, February 22nd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

heartache101-

Once A Cheater Always A Cheater
.

How does that statement make you feel inside? Does it trigger you?

For me, the statement does not trigger. The fact is... I will either cheat again or I won't. Like anyone else. Whether I do or not has nothing to do with the fact that I have already done so. It depends on how much I work on myself, how much I keep communicating with my husband, how much I want to be the kind of person I want to be.

I am not outraged by the statement, not saddened, not dejected. The statement doesn't really affect me one way or the other.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
onlysolution
♀ Member
Member # 23160
Default  Posted: 2:01 PM, February 22nd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

girlinthemirror.

It is very common for the WS to believe he/her can be just friends with the OP after the affair is over. This is because the WS does not want to give up the OP completely and convinces himself he can be just friends. All it will do will prolong the feelings he has for her. It does not work.

I know that if I had not read all that I have read and if my H had not been adament about no contact and if I had not my past experience with believing the 'just friends' myth, I would have convinced myself once again that I could be friends again with OM just to have a little fix. Just to not have to give that up completely.

I is all right for you to ask him to give up that friendship, in fact you need to demand it. If you do not, there is a good chance that affair will start again.


FWW: Me 52
BH: 54
Married 34 years
Recovery - Over 4 years

Posts: 448 | Registered: Mar 2009
gerrygirl
♀ Member
Member # 26294
Default  Posted: 5:16 PM, February 22nd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

whoops, forgot to sign on as BaxtersBFF again...

[This message edited by gerrygirl at 5:24 PM, February 22nd (Monday)]


Me(BS)-45; Him (FWH)-43 (baxtersbff)
M - 20 years
DD - 16; DS -12
D-day #1: 8/12/07; D-day #2: 11/18/07; D-day #3 5/26/2010
Real R Begins - 5/27/2010

Posts: 962 | Registered: Nov 2009
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 5:25 PM, February 22nd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Here is what I just posted under my BW profile...sorry for the mix-up.

Heartache,

How does that statement make you feel inside? Does it trigger you?
This is about the "Once a cheater, always a cheater" comment, right? It makes me feel sad and resigned. Maybe there is some fear mixed in there too because I never thought I would be a cheater in the first place and look what happened. I am sad that I will feel compelled to prove that this statement does not describe me, but resigned that I will always face that challenge.
It doesn't trigger me. I'm under the impression that triggers for the WS are about the AP whereas for the BS triggers are about the A. Does that make sense? So the "once a cheater, always a cheater" statement doesn't trigger me about my OW, it just reminds me of the pain and sadness that I have brought into my M.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6061 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 5:35 PM, February 22nd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Godsgirl,

The reason I didn't come clean and kept on with the TT was that I wasn't letting go of the OW and the EA. The end of TT and the letting go occurred simultaneously.

The devestation already exists and now the only way to get through it is to get it all out there. He is not protecting you (you know that), he is protecting himself. It's the band-aid scenario...pull it off slow or rip it off fast. Both ways hurt, but it has to be done.

Ultimately, I don't think your WS wants to let go of it all yet.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6061 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
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