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User Topic: One Night Stand Support Thread - II
Devestatedx5
♀ Member
Member # 16557
Default  Posted: 11:45 AM, October 5th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't think he is remorseful at all nor is he telling the truth about that night bc he gets irritated if I bring the night up and tells me it was no big deal when we argue about it.....he is very cold about it.

If my husband had gotten or shown ANY SIGNS of being "irritated" about my questions after Dday, D(iscovery) Day would've been D(ivorce) Day. He answered EACH and EVERY question I had about that night, from the moment he left the job site, to the moment his feet hit US soil.

He knew what the score was - 100% honesty from him (no matter HOW HARD it was for me to hear/learn about it) or the marriage was over. I was, and still am, an ALL or NOTHING type of person, and in a marriage, I feel that that's the way it should be - all or nothing. I won't settle for less.


FBS-me (49)
FWH(57) ONS 8.19.07
Dday: 9.19.07
Married +26 years
RE-MARRIED 4.28.11
----------
Proverbs 31:10-31
Sometimes people are SO open-minded that that their brains fall out.

Posts: 2598 | Registered: Oct 2007
poopylala
♀ Member
Member # 30119
Default  Posted: 4:25 PM, October 6th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Exactly what dx5 said!!!

I knew in my gut wbf was lying about so many things. I began to dig for the truth and I confronted him each time I got it. It made me more and more upset that I found the truth on my own rather than him just confessing. To be honest I told him when his irritation or frustration upset me. "You're feeling interrogated? I'm feeling lied to!" I spoke my mind like I'd never done before. Anything he complained about I had an angry quip ready to reply with. Eventually he realized how hurt I was by his actions and he agreed to MC. Things got better although were still rough. He was contacted by 2 different toxic friends and each time defended their friendships. They were people wbf had met on an online video game (he had an addiction to online video games for a while) and I understood that it was harder to let go of old "friends" but finally I told wbf he had to be honest and pick them or me. I would not be in a relationship where some girl he had only talked to online/the phone who lives in another state was more important than my feelings. My point in all this is that he is still concerned about himself. He doesn't see how this affects you. You have to be open with your emotions and show him how hurt you are. Tell him that when he says it's not a big deal he is ridiculing your feelings and minimizing the situation. If it wasn't a big deal he should be able to account for every dollar spent. Wbf answered all the questions I had on DDay but after that he was very difficult to talk with because he would get frustrated and lash out. In counseling we figured out that while I created lists on my phone to keep track of my questions for my sake, the list triggered wbf to put his mental wall up because he felt he was being interrogated. I also say this because maybe you should look at what you do before you talk to see if maybe any of your actions cause him to put a wall up? You can ask him how would it be best for you to approach him when you have questions so that he can tell you and if he gets upset then you can say "i'm trying to do this the way you suggested so work with me here".. I don't like the idea of catering to the WS when it comes to questions but finding a way that makes it as smooth as possible for everyone really makes a difference. When wbf and I had our first talk after counseling I didn't use a list. I just talked and asked questions. Turns out my lists made me more like a robot so it was just ask and answer, next question, answer, etc. I didn't stop to truly listen or talk about the answer. So wbf felt his answers weren't even really heard.

On a side note I think you should look at the 180 (in the healing library to the upper left in the yellow) and give yourself time to focus on you. This allowed me the strength to tell wbf he needed to answer my questions now or he could do it later, which was his preference. I had the balls to stand up for myself. When he broke NC with a toxic friend, it gave me the independence and the courage to say "I need a week to think about things. I don't know if I can be in a relationship with someone who lies to me and seems to care more about a friend you met online who lives several states away... rather than caring about your girlfriend of 4 years feelings. You need to think about what you want because there is no point in me considering R if you can't or won't commit to it yourself." That week was the best week ever. I had NC with wbf, I focused on ME and I had a good time doing it. Then we talked and wbf said he felt toxic friend was manipulating him and there was NC with her since the last talk. I knew she was manipulating him but he didn't see it himself. The thing is, the 180 helped me see that I can't control wbf. He will do whatever he wants. It's just up to me to live with his choices and stay or leave if I don't approve. We now are doing really well. We have healthy friends of the relationship, we don't lie to each other and the one time he did lie to me he confessed immediately and he could see that even a lie about his car could hurt me and we've been open to talking since then. But it's only because I did the 180 and got the strength to stand up for myself.

Sorry for telling you a chunk of my story but I wanted to tell you that we understand how it is. I always said I would do things a certain way but you know what? BS on that.. Once you're actually in the situation it's so much different than that. I never reacted to anything the way I said I would. In theory yes I'd leave if he got irritated at my questions. In reality I couldnt and didn't. I'm glad i stayed because we're happily in R BUT it's because he works at it too. You should figure out your bottom line and tell him the absolute needs you have to stay and that what he is doing is pushing you away and that is not okay if he wants y'all to stay together.


((((((hugs))))))


BGF (me)- 24
FWBF (him)- 24
in a LTR

forgiven and in R :)

"To err is human.
To forgive,
divine"


Posts: 956 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: Houston, TX
JanaGreen
♀ Member
Member # 29341
Default  Posted: 4:32 PM, October 6th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi and welcome - I'm sorry you're here in this situation.

I have to say . . . $6,000?!??! The escort that my husband . . . how do you call it? Ordered? Like a pizza? was only $200. I understand that she was probably not a high-end call girl, but if the going rate for an escort is around $200 and he shelled out $6K - oh hon, he is lying through his teeth. But you know that already.

I'm so very sorry.


We're both in our 30s. One awesome 4-year-old daughter.

Posts: 6125 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Somewhere in the South
JanaGreen
♀ Member
Member # 29341
Default  Posted: 4:32 PM, October 6th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi and welcome - I'm sorry you're here in this situation.

I have to say . . . $6,000?!??! The escort that my husband . . . how do you call it? Ordered? Like a pizza? was only $200. I understand that she was probably not a high-end call girl, but if the going rate for an escort is around $200 and he shelled out $6K - oh hon, he is lying through his teeth. But you know that already.

I'm so very sorry.


We're both in our 30s. One awesome 4-year-old daughter.

Posts: 6125 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Somewhere in the South
Devestatedx5
♀ Member
Member # 16557
Default  Posted: 6:07 AM, October 7th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Confirming JanaGreen's post, my husband spend $200 (for a 2 hour session) and $60 for the taxi ride (for "it") back to the strip joint. (Even though his ONS occured in S.A., $200/hour or two seems to be the going rate even in the US. Not sure about Vegas, but it's easy enough to find out. There are "forums" out there that "rate" various joints throughout the USA (and internationally) with cost to enter, cost for "take out", cost for "VIP", cost for drinks/cover charges and individual "ratings" on the prostitues themselves and their "services".


FBS-me (49)
FWH(57) ONS 8.19.07
Dday: 9.19.07
Married +26 years
RE-MARRIED 4.28.11
----------
Proverbs 31:10-31
Sometimes people are SO open-minded that that their brains fall out.

Posts: 2598 | Registered: Oct 2007
Want To Wake Up
♀ Member
Member # 31583
Default  Posted: 2:54 PM, October 7th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks poopylala♥ I know I have faults (don't we all?) but now is not a time when I feel ready to have them pointed out... especially not by my WH... kind of feels as though I am being kicked while I am down IYKWIM


(((Inmylife))) Wow! $6000 ??? I know it was your WH and a client but still... that's an awful lot of money!

I don't know the prices of prostitues in the US and my WH's "encounter" (such a sterile word, don't you think?) was in an Asian hell hole and he spent close to $500 and that got him two whores for around 4 hours of anything he wanted


I'm heading into an extremely tough week (and will gladly take any and all sympathy, hugs or kind words of encouragement that anyone has to spare)... it's our 30th wedding anniversary this week and again I feel... cheated. Cheated out of what should have been a time for joyous celebration that will now be nothing of the sort. I have asked that WH ignore it entirely as I don't feel ready to "reclaim" that day (and I don't know that I ever will) It shouldn't be too hard a task for WH as he has "forgotten" it so many times over the past 30 years anyway.

We also have our first joint MC session (the day after our wedding anniversary... bad timing!) WH had his first session last week (they had a cancellation so I grabbed that session for him) but I don't quite know what to expect and I'll admit I feel as though I might be heading into an ambush since he got to tell "his side" without me being there to know what he's said (thinking that might have been not such a good idea now)


He hasn't really told me what he said in that session (other than tell 'his' story) so I have no idea what I am walking into.


My nerves have been frayed the past couple of weeks, nothing in particular 'set me off' I guess it's just all sinking in IYKWIM (reality BITES... and bites hard!) I've been a weepy mess for a week (seriously, I could not stop the tears from flowing) followed by a few days of being raging shrew. I wish I felt more... stable, more in control, more focussed...I am just so very tired and worn out... maybe the MC can help me with some of those feelings.



Me 50+
WH 50+ (SlowUptake)
DDay '09
"He didn't cheat because I wasn't enough, he cheated because HE wasn't enough"

"Unhappy marriages don't cause infidelity. Being unfaithful causes infidelity."


Posts: 454 | Registered: Mar 2011
Want To Wake Up
♀ Member
Member # 31583
Default  Posted: 3:02 PM, October 7th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bit of a t/j

There are "forums" out there that "rate" various joints throughout the USA (and internationally) with cost to enter, cost for "take out", cost for "VIP", cost for drinks/cover charges and individual "ratings" on the prostitues themselves and their "services".

OMG there certainly are Devestatedx5

I had no idea... I went to one such site and read the mens "reviews" of the hookers

The worst (for me) was the guy that described himself as "a typical family man, married with 3 kids, bbq (I think you call that a cook out?)on a Sunday while knocking back a few beers and watching the game... who just likes to spoil himself once a month or so, so he indulges in sex with hookers as a treat.

Sadly, I now know this is a not rare attitude. I have a friend whose son was recently horrified when his new work mates invited him out for a few beers on a friday night and he discovered their usual thing was to start at a strip club and then move on to the local brothel for a "bit of fun"... it was just what they did at the end of a hard week of work.


Me 50+
WH 50+ (SlowUptake)
DDay '09
"He didn't cheat because I wasn't enough, he cheated because HE wasn't enough"

"Unhappy marriages don't cause infidelity. Being unfaithful causes infidelity."


Posts: 454 | Registered: Mar 2011
tsol25
♀ Member
Member # 29461
Default  Posted: 12:58 PM, October 9th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm sad to see so many new people having popped in here. Sad understanding those feelings. GAHRRRR

It seems like the ons could all have been so avoidable. Like there was no reason it had to have happened. I guess that's the same as with any A but when it comes to the ons I get annoyed, because there was so little to it. Like, at least in my case, there was little time for anything to....develop. No sliding down the slope -although I guess things in the past could be connected to the slope sliding. But somehow this situation presented itself and within an hour the damage was done. There wasn't time to get those feelings of "wow, ow really ___ (loves, listens, whatever) me more than I feel in my relationship". It was just "oh, look here's an opportunity"

I put more thought into what to eat for breakfast than wbf did in destroying a relationship


me - tsol, that's all for now

Posts: 1208 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Canada
Inmylife
♀ New Member
Member # 33060
Default  Posted: 1:41 PM, October 9th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you all for sharing your experiences. I called the strip club and all of the money is accounted for....2 girls, expensive champagne room and expensive bottles of champagne...except for 1500 in tips, hmmmm wonder what that was for (I saw the receipts and the tips were not in his handwriting).

Posts: 23 | Registered: Aug 2011
Inmylife
♀ New Member
Member # 33060
Default  Posted: 1:43 PM, October 9th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wanttowakeup, sorry you are having a tough week. I have an awful time with triggers. Maybe you could secretly turn your anniversary into a day of spoiling for you.....go to dinner with a girlfriend, buy yourself something.

Posts: 23 | Registered: Aug 2011
Want To Wake Up
♀ Member
Member # 31583
Default  Posted: 8:12 PM, October 9th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tsol♥ funny you should mention the slippery slope. WH and I have started reading 'Not Just Friends' together and he has realised that he has always had fairly loose boundaries when it comes to the opposite sex (I've known for a long time but my protestations fell on deaf ears)


I kind of saw those boundaries slipping further when he'd tell me what he got up to while away (hanging out in bars-he's NOT a drinker at home-taking a street hooker to dinner because...he felt sorry for her... seriously? WTF?)and I tried to warn him of the possible outcome of hanging out in bars until late at night and consuming too much alcohol when he wasn't used to it but he didn't want to hear it. He wanted to have "fun" (and then I stopped being told about what he did while away, or at least the truth about what he did)


Fact was, he was sliding that slope for a long time. Porn was the first problem (and became a huge problem) then the flirting increased (he's always been a 'bit' of a flirt) then he dipped his toe in... behaving in a way he knew was wrong (basically behaving like a single man every time he went away) but he did it anyway, telling himself he was just having a "bit of fun" and I was the fun police.

By the time he had his ONS he had already made the conscious decision to cheat, it was something he'd convinced himself he could do... he'd already signed up to "have a look" at a couple of "find a fuck" sites here at home, so it was just a matter of where, when and with whom (or in his case... "whoms" plural
) The night he went to the bar and met the hookers he had sex with he was actually there to meet a woman he'd met the previous night and arranged a date with (she stood him up) and has admitted that had it gone "that way" he'd have ended up having sex with her.


I guess I should be thankful it ended up being only a ONS with a pair of hookers... nope not seeing any joy in that Maybe because I don't know that's all it was IYKWIM Maybe because it wasn't just the ONS. He claims he didn't have sex with anyone else (small comfort and conveniently unverifiable) but he did go on several "dates" with another woman while he was away... and flirted so outrageously with another that she offered him sex (seriously.... who IS this man?)

Wanttowakeup, sorry you are having a tough week. I have an awful time with triggers. Maybe you could secretly turn your anniversary into a day of spoiling for you.....go to dinner with a girlfriend, buy yourself something.


Thanks Tsol♥ It's a nice thought but I won't be doing anything much today at all. The one thing I asked of him today was to let the day go with no acknowledgement, leave it be, it's a 'non day' to me. So... what is the first thing out of his mouth this morning?... "I know you don't want to celebrate but... Happy Anniversary" FFS his excuse was he didn't realise I wanted to ignore it entirely... although I used those exact words! What do I have to do to get through to him... I WANT NOTHING OF THIS DAY!

(sorry, getting my angries out)

**edited 'cos when I am angry I can't spell for shit**

**that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it**

[This message edited by Want To Wake Up at 8:18 PM, October 9th (Sunday)]


Me 50+
WH 50+ (SlowUptake)
DDay '09
"He didn't cheat because I wasn't enough, he cheated because HE wasn't enough"

"Unhappy marriages don't cause infidelity. Being unfaithful causes infidelity."


Posts: 454 | Registered: Mar 2011
JanaGreen
♀ Member
Member # 29341
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, October 10th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

taking a street hooker to dinner because...he felt sorry for her... seriously? WTF?


We're both in our 30s. One awesome 4-year-old daughter.

Posts: 6125 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Somewhere in the South
Want To Wake Up
♀ Member
Member # 31583
Default  Posted: 7:55 PM, October 10th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah Jana♥ I know, it beggars belief doesn't it? That was when he was overseas and talking a stroll one night in what turned out to be a bad part of town (OK he'd never been there before but I know a "bad" part of town when I see one, the homeless beggars and street whores are usually an indicator... dumbass!) It was after that little revelation that I again warned him of the dangers of his behaviour while away (very politely too...I even joked and said "Honey, she's a hooker, don't you know you don't have to buy them dinner first?"... maybe I should have been a raging shrew about it but I doubt it would have made a difference) but yet again he would hear none of it. He was totally in control and nothing would happen, he was just having a "bit of fun"... yeah, right!


This street whore offered him a bj for $20 but he declined (I think I am supposed to be greatful for that just like all the other times he'd been offered a "bit" but declined... that's what's he's supposed to do or, better yet, NOT get himself into a situation of being offered it IYKWIM) anyhoo... he felt sorry for her and said he wouldn't have the bj but he'd buy her dinner They apparently spent the evening discussing his relationship with our eldest daughter who was around the same age as the hooker (gotta say that relationship is seriuosly strained now thanks to him and will never be what it once was, none of the kids feel the same way about him and I don't think he's really given that full consideration)... WTF's abound at many of his actions.


Got through the day yesterday, barely. God, I love my BFF! She rang me yesterday but didn't say "it" just that she wanted me to know she was thinking of me today and she knew how hard today was for me... Bless her little cotton socks!


I could barely speak to WH yesterday when he got home, it was just too hard. We have our first joint MC session today, fingers crossed we have a positive session.


Me 50+
WH 50+ (SlowUptake)
DDay '09
"He didn't cheat because I wasn't enough, he cheated because HE wasn't enough"

"Unhappy marriages don't cause infidelity. Being unfaithful causes infidelity."


Posts: 454 | Registered: Mar 2011
Want To Wake Up
♀ Member
Member # 31583
Default  Posted: 3:54 AM, October 11th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hmmm... maybe it's just me but the new MC seems to be more interested with our marital issues than WH's infidelities IYKWIM... hugely disappointed!


I need WH's infideltities addressed and the reasons for it before I am willing to tackle anything else.... and I got fucking homework! WTF!? Where's WH's homework? He's the one that brought this shitstorm down upon us and I'm the one with the fucking homework? Grrrrrr! It seems to me that I am the one being asked to do the hard work... again!


My homework is a list of questions I want answers to... big help Luv, I hate to reiterate but... once more for the dummies (her!)... he already knows what I still want answers to and has point blank refused to give them. I am, apparently, NOT entitled to know exactly what he did with his whores! That's "personal"! FMD... personal? I'll fucking "personal" HIM!

I'm feeling fucked over yet again... let me tell you.


Left there with the feeling that I just have to make a choice to "get the fuck over it" if I want this marriage to continue. Fuck me dead and sorry for all the profanity but... seriously? This is a so called "expert" in healing from infidelity that I am paying a not small fortune to see! (with no medical insurance claim back of the cost either!)Where's my Dr Phil? Where's my MC that agrees that after all he has done, all the lies and deceit afterwards that tells him..."You know what WH? Your BW gets to set the conditions for R Not you!... ?" I've alread made that "leap of faith" right after DDay when he again had to travel overseas. Look how fucking well that worked out for me? All I got was more lies and more deceit!


I really don't think I am asking too much to have more from him, more "giving" with no expectation of anything in return (for a while, until I feel secure again) before I am again willing to make another "leap of faith"!

Might have to have a word with her next month (dammit, she's so booked up that it was the first available appointment)and get her back on the track I feel I/we need to be on.


I know we have issues with conflict resolution that need to be improved (he's a conflict avoider from way bcak and apparently I am to just accept that... FUCK NO!! Not anymore! He can fuckingwell change that!)but FFS can we not forget that he fuckingwell fucked two whores, he had a fucking threesome (and everything else) and after all that I'm supposed to what?... Forget that fucking happened?... Deny MY pain?... My hurt?... Am I not entitled to feel the pain and heartache I fucking feel? Doesn't that count for something? AM I not 'entitled' (if you will) to 'demand' something more than I am getting from my WH just because he's the conflict avoider I have to make fucking concessions?

FMD I fel I have made enough fucking concessions! It's HIS fucking turn to give me some fucking concessions!!... OR do I have to just be the doormat and take it like a good little wifey-pooh?


(sorry, I'm on my third glass of wine for the night and I needed to get all that out... and I am soooo not a drinker!)

**edited because of that damn third glass of wine**

[This message edited by Want To Wake Up at 3:57 AM, October 11th (Tuesday)]


Me 50+
WH 50+ (SlowUptake)
DDay '09
"He didn't cheat because I wasn't enough, he cheated because HE wasn't enough"

"Unhappy marriages don't cause infidelity. Being unfaithful causes infidelity."


Posts: 454 | Registered: Mar 2011
JanaGreen
♀ Member
Member # 29341
Default  Posted: 9:27 AM, October 11th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You are absolutely entitled to your anger. It's completely, COMPLETELY justified, my dear. If this marriage counselor isn't working for you, fire her and get another one. Srsly.

Our marriage counselor "got it" in terms of what I was feeling - she did tell me at one point that I married Mr. G and not somebody else (in terms of expecting from him things that just aren't "him") - but as far as understanding the trauma - yes. She sat and explained post-traumatic stress disorder to my husband and told him that is what I was experiencing with triggers. Your MC should GET that. If she doesn't, she's worthless.

I'm sorry you're struggling. I hope you find someone who can help you.


We're both in our 30s. One awesome 4-year-old daughter.

Posts: 6125 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Somewhere in the South
Want To Wake Up
♀ Member
Member # 31583
Default  Posted: 10:01 AM, October 11th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Jana♥ I just feel she jumped straight into "let's see what we can do to repair this marriage" mode before addressing WH's cheating and it's affects on me. Maybe it has to do with WH's solo session, maybe it doesn't, I don't KNOW what was said so I can only guess.


We don't go back for another month (Ugh!) but in the meantime, in addition to my "homework" (Pfft!) I am the one who has to make the concilliatory moves... wtf?

Am I the one who cheated? No!... that'd be HIM! I was looking for suggestions to get us off the merry go round that did not consist of me just "getting over it" and starting R before MY list of requirements to R are met IYKWIM but apparently they mean nothing, all that's important is we start working together on R... my feelings be damned!

Doesn't help that this is EXACTLY what WH wanted to hear... I have to "move forward"... even if I am NOT ready to, even if he has NOT done all he can to aid me in that. GRRRRRRR!!!!! None of that matters, all that matters is moving forward, buggar me and my feelings.

Let me tell you in addition to that list (of now totally useless questions, 'cos he won't answer them and the whole reason why I wanted those details is out of the bag, rendering them useless to me anyway) she'll be getting a few questions from me!

Probably tmi (Ok, no 'probably' about it) but... the reason I wanted ALL the sordid little details of his night with the two hookers is... well... once we resume having sex I don't ever want to be in the exact physical position he 'had' them in IYKWIM I wanted to know these details so I could work on a way of varying those positions into something I could handle emotionally, so I would never be haunted (during sex) by the image that he'd 'had' another woman in this exact same position (if that makes any sense) Probably sounds stupid but that was my thinking as during our HB stage this was an issue for me and ended more than once in tears and... no sex that night. I was hoping that by never recreating those exact same positions I could resume a sex life with him again. But now that he's gotten out of me why I wanted that information...(I was quite distraught and under constant badgering of "why do you want to know, what possible difference can it make?" I gave up my reasons, stupidly thinking that would be enough for him to give me that information, not realising at the time that his knowledge of my reasons rendered that information useless to me)

Well, now I won't ever KNOW if what he tells me is correct or if he's lying to 'protect' his favourite variation of that sexual position IYKWIM I know he had sex with them in at least 3 positions there's a bit of disaparity with the number of times he actually had intercourse with them (depends on which version of events we go with, there have been several) it varies from 3 to 4. Go figure!

The positions he has admitted to were my/our three favourites and I'll be damned if I am going to lose them entirely to two fucking whores! The frustrating thing is I was trying to find a way to cope with the mental images during sex, to dispel the "fantasy" images and only have to deal with the "real" images, not repeating exact positions would have helped me with that... but he's taken that away from me too.


Tonight has not gone well so far... don't know where we are or where we're heading right now.

[This message edited by Want To Wake Up at 10:04 AM, October 11th (Tuesday)]


Me 50+
WH 50+ (SlowUptake)
DDay '09
"He didn't cheat because I wasn't enough, he cheated because HE wasn't enough"

"Unhappy marriages don't cause infidelity. Being unfaithful causes infidelity."


Posts: 454 | Registered: Mar 2011
Inmylife
♀ New Member
Member # 33060
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, October 11th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wanttowakeup.....I had a very similar reaction with our MC, she basically made me feel like my WH is who he is, to not take the ONS personal bc he did it to impress his client and that I left feeling like I had to do all the work and just get over it.

After a couple of days of calming down, I did start to feel empowered....sorta like a natural, unforced 180. I realized I won't ever change WH, I'm not going to leave him for his hopefully one awful mistake and that I am the one with self confidence that would never lower myself to his level and ever cheat. I am better than him, he is the insecure loser. I started to spoil myself and I go out with my girls once a week. Basically, im putting myself and my kids first. Don't get me wrong, I have my triggers and moments but it is getting better.


Posts: 23 | Registered: Aug 2011
Want To Wake Up
♀ Member
Member # 31583
Default  Posted: 4:01 PM, October 11th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wanttowakeup.....I had a very similar reaction with our MC, she basically made me feel like my WH is who he is, to not take the ONS personal bc he did it to impress his client and that I left feeling like I had to do all the work and just get over it.


Inmylife IMO that is a very 'dangerous' way to look at it. Just saying "don't take it personally because he didn't mean it personally". If that's the case and by that reasoning you can do anything to anyone and just say "I didn't mean it personally" and that negates their 'right' to be upset over it IYKWIM

In fact our MC said very similar to me about many things that my WH does (or doesn't do) i.e. he has long used his passive aggressive traits to 'deal' with me when I would ask for very reasonable home maintenance chores to be done if he didn't feel like doing them when I asked for them. I would ask, he would say "Yes, Dear" and then not do it claiming he "just forgot", instead of telling what he really thought such as "I've had a tough weeek at work, can it wait until next weekend?" He claims I don't/won't compromise but from my POV he didn't even give me the option to compromise. Passive aggressives are very adept, covert manipulators.

The MC says that because he didn't intend to 'hurt' me by "forgetting" I have to take that as Gospel, it's just how he is and I should not be upset... WTF? He'd already admitted that he didn't always "just forget", very often he just didn't want to do said chore (in my timeframe) and since you can't reasonably be angry with someone for forgetting something (because we all forget things sometimes, right?) instead of being upfront and telling me he didn't want to do it he'd just say "I forgot". Can you imagine how terribly wearisome that gets after you've heard "I forgot" for the umpteenth time?

The same was said over his very often "forgetting" our wedding anniversary over the years, since it was not his intent to hurt me by that I really shouldn't "take it personally" thereby again negating my right to my hurt feelings hurt about it. Never mind that I feel that if he has such a lousy memory, knowing that it hurts me should have been enough for him to take steps (note in his diary, reminder on his phone... something) to remember it.

I'm working on the "homework" she set me, that list of unanswered questions for my WH (futile but Meh!)but I think maybe she'll get a little surprise when I have a list of questions for her too. I need some clarification on a few of the things she said yesterday and I need her to take a wee step back and move away from the "Now you're in R, try this and see if it works" approach and address the whole issue of WH's infidelities and it's affects (traumatising!) on me.

I have asked that my WH "give" without neccessarily "getting" anything from me for a time as a show of good faith but because he's not the kind of person to do that I am to let that one go (I have repeatedly requested unsolicited apologies... not just when I am upset/angry or just when we are talking about it. An apology for no other reason other than that's what he feels IYKWIM not one I feel I have extracted from him)


Ummm... I hate to point this out but he also "wasn't the kind of person" to cheat but he managed to dig deep and find it within himself to do that. I don't think I am asking so very much to ask him to step outside his comfort zone for my sake if nothing else.

Yesterday I felt anything but validated, I was made to feel like an unreasonable shrew of a wife who is asking way too much of her poor, hard done by hubby. After all he's had a rough time of it, he felt soooo bad about himself he fucked two hookers in an effort to make himself feel good. Poor him, give him a break why don't ya? Yeah, I am willing to do just that.... once we are in R but that won't happen until he meets my requirements to begin R.


As for it being "one mistake" if that were the case perhaps I would feel differently but it was more than a ONS (I don't really "fit in" anywhere but I chose this thread becasue his sexual betrayal was the one night with the two hookers... as far as I know)


It's complicated... short version (sorry this really is the short version)... He'd made the decision that cheating was something he was ready to do, something he wanted to do... if the opportunity presented itself. Then he took steps to ensure that opportunity did present itself. First, he signed up to adult dating sites, just to "look at what was on offer" here at home. He started partying like a single guy everytime he went overseas for work, drinking until all hours, dancing and flirting with anything in a skirt. He grabbed opportunity with both hands and went for it one night with two hookers. When he didn't get his "happy ending" IYKWIM he figured it was maybe because he didn't feel any emotion for the two whores (lucky me, eh?) so he then started dating a women he meet while overseas contacting her through email and FB while he was home. They had 3 "dates" (that I know of) but it didn't end in sex (just a kiss) Then he continued to party like a single guy looking for another 'opportunity' and got close enough to another woman to be offered a fuck but he declined (but not until after he bought himself some condoms 'cos he was "thinking" about it) So you see it was a ONS... but then again... it wasn't.


(sorry for the length of that post I'm running on 1 hours sleep and not thinking straight, hence the edit)

[This message edited by Want To Wake Up at 4:09 PM, October 11th (Tuesday)]


Me 50+
WH 50+ (SlowUptake)
DDay '09
"He didn't cheat because I wasn't enough, he cheated because HE wasn't enough"

"Unhappy marriages don't cause infidelity. Being unfaithful causes infidelity."


Posts: 454 | Registered: Mar 2011
poopylala
♀ Member
Member # 30119
Default  Posted: 6:49 PM, October 12th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC in NO way should ever discredit your feelings. However, sometimes you may not see why what they focus on is important until after the fact.

Wbf and I did CC in Jan/Feb and his goal was to work on communication and mine was to trust. You would think that I would be upset with how the sessions went because we mostly focused on communication and why we felt the way we did about certain things. But ultimately, learning to talk helped us outside of the sessions with dealing with his As and before our last session, we had an open, honest 3 hour talk that was very crucial to our being in R now. We didn't actively focus on wbf telling me the truth in the sessions, we focused on what had happened during the week before the session and what made the biggest impact on each of us and why. Wbf learned alot about how my dad's verbal abuse really changed the way I look at things- my dad never followed through so when wbf was supposed to do something and didn't do it by the time he said he would I would be beligerent, thinking he didn't care about me, he didn't love me, I wasn't important enough to follow through for. He had no idea why it was so important to me and I had no idea I was not only reacting to him but also subconsciously reacting to my dad. Realizing these things made us more aware of what was going on in each others' minds and so we were more conscious of the nonverbal messages beneath the verbal ones. Through talking and opening up to each other, I eventually came to trust wbf again and we both work at being honest and supportive to each other. Sorry for my whole t/j but I really meant that you may not see the benefit of focusing on something in MC until after it's all over. You can ask MC in a session why she is focusing on whatever it is and ask if you can redirect the session to address something in particular. Remember, you pay them, so it's what y'all need. Our CC said if there was anything in particular we needed to bring up we could always do so.


So my 1 year antiversary is less than a month away- technically I have 2 important DDays with a third dday because of TT, but I mainly count the first 2. DDay 1 was nov 7 and dday 2 was nov 10. I found a letter written to OW#2 on nov 7 and confronted wbf on the phone. It was an "I've always loved you; you were the best thing that ever happened to me" letter. I had so much anxiety I couldn't sleep and I tried confronting wbf that night on the phone but it didn't do much as we were both tired and I didn't have much to go on. I continued digging around (from a distance) and found a ton more stuff and then we were supposed to talk nov 9 but wbf said he wanted to write me something and asked if we could postpone it until the next day. I was wary that it was a ploy but I agreed anyways. Well I was right BUT if we hadn't put it off a day I would not have found the email confirmation from the hotel he and OW#1 stayed at so the next day, nov 10 is when I confronted wbf with everything and he admitted about OW#1 but said OW#2 was an EA. I found out from her the night before our first CC appointment in Jan that they had a PA. She didn't know about me and was upset when she found out that he had a girlfriend the whole time so she empathized with my situation, hence I trusted her word. So I count Nov 7 and 10 as my ddays.

I have had a few nightmares lately about how wbf used to act. At like 530am I tried sending wbf a bbm (blackberry messenger- IM for blackberries) but it didnt go through. Well last year this time, he used to have these girls call him to wake him up in the morning- they were all from his online gaming, of which he was addicted to. When he is on the phone, my bbms won't send so I thought either he was on the phone or his phone died. I tried calling and it rang and he answered. He was driving to work and I told him my bbm wouldn't send so I asked if he had been on the phone. he said he wasn't and then I tried sending a bbm to tsol and it didn't send either! Then I learned that there's been a mass issue (like worldwide) with blackberries meaning no internet and no bbm! So that explained it. I didn't think he was talkin to any girls but it triggered me to remember last year. If anything I thought he was talking to his brother or his dad on the phone. So I went back to sleep and dreamed I was possessed by an alien so I was hidden away until it left my body (I think maybe the alien was representing insecurity?)and then when I came back, not a month later after leaving, wbf had been talking to like 5 different girls on his phone. His phone is how he used to talk to the other girls so it makes sense that my dream he was using his phone. I was devastated that he moved on so quickly. When I woke up I felt awful. This afternoon I could finally send wbf a bbm, although I still cant send any to tsol! But wbf said he didn't like that I had bad dreams but I had every reason to have this dream. I felt so grateful that he understood my pain and what all he put me through and I'm happy he is supportive. I know he isn't cheating on me. I feel it in my gut he isn't. That's the main thing IC and I worked on was trusting myself and my intuition. I don't need to search through his phone to prove it. I feel it in my gut.

So I hope that as nov 7/10 near that I don't have anymore crazy dreams They're freaking annoying.


BGF (me)- 24
FWBF (him)- 24
in a LTR

forgiven and in R :)

"To err is human.
To forgive,
divine"


Posts: 956 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: Houston, TX
Want To Wake Up
♀ Member
Member # 31583
Default  Posted: 10:25 PM, October 12th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC in NO way should ever discredit your feelings.

That's how she made me feel Poopylala and even my WH saw that too. He wasn't too impressed with the way she treated me either. Her whole attitude was "get over it"... or perhaps it was more "it happened, it's in the past, forget it... now let's look at where you want to be" I went there to look at where we are, sort that out... then focus on where we want to be IYKWIM


However, sometimes you may not see why what they focus on is important until after the fact.


The really silly thing is that we, on our own and with my IC's input have already worked all this out but this is a pre existing marital issue not an A issue and we went there for assistance and guidance, suggestions of methods for working through the effects of his infidelities.


IMO that is the crisis that brought us into her office and that is the crisis that needs to be attended to first. To me it's like leaving the critical patient waiting while you see to patient with the hang nail.


You can ask MC in a session why she is focusing on whatever it is and ask if you can redirect the session to address something in particular. Remember, you pay them, so it's what y'all need.


If we go back (and at the moment that is an IF, I might look around again and see if there is anybody else "qualified" in our area) I will definitely be insisting that we deal with his infidelities and the impact on me (and the marriage) I'm more than happy to modify my behaviours, find a common ground (but that also requires WH being upfront with his feelings, always a hard ask due to his FOO issues) but only after we have gotten through the worst of the affair stuff IYKWIM


She seems to be one of these MC's that want to put the "blame" for his A's on the marriage and even WH says repeatedly it wasn't the marriage, it wasn't me, it was all about what was wrong with him at the time.


Funny you should mention the problem with the blackberry messaging... my WH has gps tracking on his iphone and ipad so I can see where he is while he's at work. Unfortunately for me he works all over the place some days so it's not like he's in an office 9-5 (it's not much comfort but it's all he can do) The other day I couldn't locate the phone or the ipad and I must admit I freaked a bit. Apparently it too was a system wide failure that was rectified in a few hours... but that didn't help me the damage was done (Damn technology, it's a blessing and a curse at times) It took me straight back to the night I couldn't get him on the phone when he was away last year and he lied about the phone "not working" but in reality he was out partying... again.

I wonder if they ever have any idea as to the scope of what their betrayal has done to us.


P.S I have to say I love how you type "y'all" it brings a smile to my face everytime I see that, it's almost like I can hear your voice.

**edited for spelling... but I don't have wine as the excuse this time LMAO maybe later tonight**

[This message edited by Want To Wake Up at 10:27 PM, October 12th (Wednesday)]


Me 50+
WH 50+ (SlowUptake)
DDay '09
"He didn't cheat because I wasn't enough, he cheated because HE wasn't enough"

"Unhappy marriages don't cause infidelity. Being unfaithful causes infidelity."


Posts: 454 | Registered: Mar 2011
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