In many ways I literally owe them my life as I very much doubt I would still be here or have an ounce of sanity left to me without their support. Whoever says online friendship mean nothing has never had one!
I am so sorry his timeline was not up to par!
So was I Poopy♥ one of the things I have great difficulty believing is that WH claims he didn't know the women were hookers until they were in his hotel room and naked... then they asked for money to fuck him. Up until that pouint he claims he thought he just "got luck"... yeah, like two women 25-30yrs younger than him are going to offer him a threesome for free after 30mins acquaintance just 'cos.... he's all that! I don't want to bag out my WH appearance but... BULL-FUCKING-SHIT!
I have trouble believing that hookers would take the risk of travelling to his hotel (45 mins away from the bar where they pick up their 'johns') and then being turfed out upon making the request for cash. I mean these women are fucking for money, it's the way they make their living (if you can call that "living") so I have great trouble believing they would travel the 45mins to his hotel without informing him of the charges beforehand and take the risk of him saying "no". They would have been out the money for the cab ride back, with no money for fucking for the night, their chances of picking another 'john' would be dimisished as it was getting late in the night (or rather early in the morning)... they risked their whole night being a very nonprofitable one IYKWIM They fuck for money, they want to make money, I can't see them taking that risk.
The timeline was also missing things that I already know about... his signing up to adult dating sites (his reason... just to "see what was on offer" because he was 'thinking' of going down that road too) that was not even mentioned. My biggest doubt in all this is that, given the fact he has travelled for so many years, I will NEVER know if this was the "first and only time" he had ever cheated on me. I was hoping the timeline would have been his opportunity to come clean with anything else I needed to know, I was hoping he would use that opportunity to be totally honest with me.
That doubt is not helped by the fact that no less than 3 counsellors have expressed the opinion that, in their experience in dealing with this kind of thing and knowing all his history (his porn use, looking at those "find a fuck" sites and lying to me about so many things, his apparent inability to be honest with me in the months following DDay) they all feel this was not his "first and only" infidelity. They see a pattern of behaviour that they have seen too many times that inexorably leads to only one conclusion, that he is in fact a serial cheater who has done this before but finally got sloppy and got caught. Who to believe... counsellors who deal with this day in day out... or my WH, who is now a proven liar?
Tough call. The optimist in me that is clinging onto hope wants desperately to believe my WH but the new me, the pessimist who's soul has been crushed by all this, who doesn't even know which way is up anymore fears the worst.
I am so disappointed because I had thought that just maybe after I had the timeline, an accurate and detailed timeline I would know, once and for all I would know exactly what and how my WH had betrayed me in everyway and I would then know exactly what it was I was being asked to forgive IYKWIM
I think in order to even be heading towards R he really needs to be honest and maybe you can check out the passive aggressive forum in ICR
I have read in there and also a lot of other resources too. WH now finally agrees that he is PA, has always been PA and is trying to change... slow process to alter a life of behaviour. I think that one problem is is that in dealing with his PA behaviour I too have delevoped some PA tendancies, not as severe as his but... it doesn't help IYKWIM I am hoping that if he retruns to MC with me this is one thing that might help with, better communication skills for both of us (after over 30yrs of dealing with his PA and CA ways I have some unproductive behavioural patterns that I have developed over that time that I need to break too)
[This message edited by Want To Wake Up at 3:09 PM, August 26th (Friday)]
"Unhappy marriages don't cause infidelity. Being unfaithful causes infidelity."
I would have a very, very hard time being optimistic in the face of all that. I'm really sorry to say that. ETA - I'm sorry, that sounded really short and curt. I'm just really drained right now and I'm having a hard time writing anything really deep.
Hi lala and tsol, hope everything is going well for you two!
PLT, devestated, how are you? Anyone else out there I'm missing? I miss hurting like crazy but I understand it's probably best for her not to be here anymore.
I'm having a rough day. I went to see the doctor about my anxiety. It's the same doctor that Mr. G saw last year after all this shit happened. I wanted to go to him so I wouldn't have to rehash all the details, since he already knew them. That man listened to me like he was a counselor. I talked with him about everything for probably half an hour. He was lovely, but I feel raw now. He prescribed Pristiq, 50 mg, and I go back in a month to see how I'm doing.
[This message edited by JanaGreen at 3:54 PM, August 26th (Friday)]
Was curious if anyone put a "time limit" on their R from WS's ONS and if so, how long?
Also, a few posts back I think someone commented on being tested for STD's. I totally agree and wanted to add as just an FYI (and certainly not to scare anyone but it's something I was totally unaware of)-WS used a condom and contracted a pox-type skin STD from his ONS. It generally doesn't show up for several weeks (a few months in his case). Good news (did I really say good news!?!? ) is that it is only contagious once "bumps" are present and once they are gone, you should be all clear-It doesn't come back.
Yes Jana, it's very hard to believe that this was his first time at the rodeo
ETA - I'm sorry, that sounded really short and curt. I'm just really drained right now and I'm having a hard time writing anything really deep.
LOL no worries that happens to me all the time... but luckily I don't always hit "submit message"
Was curious if anyone put a "time limit" on their R from WS's ONS and if so, how long?
ttlshocker, I don't think you can put a time limit on it (I know I can't) you heal when you heal. When you are ready to begin R you begin but I don't think you ever truly stop, it remains a work in progress IYKWIM
My WH has tried to suggest that I should be healing faster and making better progress since it was "just sex" or "just a ONS"... there is no "JUST" when it comes to this kind of thing.
I think my husband thinks I should be "over it" by now. Clearly I am not.
The Pristiq . . . well. I have taken three doses now. I was told that it would take a month before I started feeling better. But I feel kind of weird. I am pretty sleepy when I go to bed but then I wake up early and have trouble going back to sleep. Also I'm a little nauseated.
I think after my appointment Friday, after he prescribed the medicine, I kind of gave up the charade of trying to act like everything was ok. Just kind of like, well, now I can quit pretending and just wait for this to kick in. So I have been feeling pretty depressed the last few days. I think mostly it's just exhaustion from the constant anxiety of the last few months that's caught up to me.
[This message edited by Want To Wake Up at 10:46 AM, August 29th (Monday)]
Pity party?... Yep, I have an 'all access' pass today
So a belated welcome to everyone who's found our thread since the last time I posted.
The first week or so I was taking the ad I had awful side effects but they do usually get better. The sleep was the worst of them, I think there was 3 days where I got like 2-3 hours each. I totally relate to that feeling of exhaustion when so much anxiety catches up with you.
I made a lot of time frames, that's just the type of person I am. A lot of them ended up being shifted. Like being over it in 2 weeks? Ya..I obviously didn't meet that deadline I had a big one for the 1 year point which I actually think made it harder come that point. I don't think time frames work in this situation, you kind of just have to go with it. Say you were in a car accident and broke both of your legs. Would you say "I need to be able to run 10 km in 1 year or...". No, you might say "I would like to be able to run 10km in 1 year" but you can't force it. In this situation you can check in to make sure that you are moving forward in your progress (even if it's baby step) and that that is the direction you still want to be going. You can check to make sure that your ws is making progress in a direction you are ok with (even if it's baby steps).
Did you tell wh that his timeline isn't acceptable? I'm sorry this sounds so frustrating. On a side note, pre-si I was one of those people who never really believed in online friendships. But yes I do see that they can be a lifesaver.
I did that numb state for a month. I just functioned until I couldn't anymore.
How are things going? Any updates?
Thanks ttlshocker♥ I feel a little weak and pathetic when it hits me but... **sigh** it seems there is not much I can do about it when it happens.
Hope things go well with new therapist. Have you ever considered EMDR?
I am hoping this one will be better than the last one (she was a 'counsellor' as opposed this new one who is a psychologist) and this one specialises in infideltiy related issues, PTSD and has a number of methods for dealing with the trauma of infidelity... according to her blurb that is (although she is published so that says something I guess) I'll let you know how I go.
Did you tell wh that his timeline isn't acceptable?
Yes I did tsol and the resulting conversation was what sent me into the abyss, he has flatly refused to give me the details I want/need to move forward. I am the type who needs to know exactly what transpired between him and the hookers but he is unwilling to fill in the blanks. I know most of the details but I feel there is more to it that he is leaving out IYKWIM He spent 3-4 hrs with them and his account was only a two short paragraphs in length.... what the hell did they do the rest of the time, play scrabble? He has said he'll go back and add information to it (some of the things I already knew were omitted) but once again refuses to agree as to wehen he will get it done (and there is no use in pushing the point because I can't force him to do it IYKWIM the only consequence I could have for him would be S then D)
I'm sorry this sounds so frustrating.
I am beyond frustrated at this stage. I was hoping to at least put that night to rest with the detailed timeline but his version of events changes with each telling which leaves me wondering if I'll ever know the truth. He claims he has tried so hard to block out that night that he can't remember... I call bullshit on that! I cannot believe that the only sexual experience in his life with someone other than me cannot be remembered... Hell, I can remember my "near misses" from 33yrs ago before I met him!
It leaves me feeling I am either not worth the truth or the truth just too awful. I have that sinking feeling that this was not the first time he'd done something like this (I've had that awful gut feeling before this when he had returned from being away) and was hoping against hope that he would use the timeline to come clean.
On a side note, pre-si I was one of those people who never really believed in online friendships. But yes I do see that they can be a lifesaver.
Before this happened I'm sad to say I really didn't put too much stock in my online friendships IYKWIM but since this... well let's just say that my online friends (here and elsewhere)have been far more supportive than my RL friends.
((Wtwu)) I'm sorry you are having a rough time. Lately I'm just so angry that anyone has to go through this hell. I hope the new psychologist is wonderful!
I'm feeling better overall with regard to side effects but it's only been one week and the pristiq has murdered my sex drive. Greaaat. It's like someone unplugged my nerve endings in that region. Oh dear.
Somebody riddle me this - what GOOD reason would he have for saving her number under A DIFFERENT NAME in his contact list?
Want to Wake Up-funny I just used the word 'pathetic' myself on here to describe how I was feeling the other day. But let's be honest, we are certainly not the ones who are pathetic!
I am so sorry you are going through this. When did this "facebook incident" happen? Could he have saved it during the 'initial incident' and never deleted it?
Thanks Jana♥ I'm heading into a very 'triggery' time this weekend. This was the weekend (2 yrs ago) the first date with the OW occurred. The date he'd spent a month planning with her via email, the weekend he'd organised his schedule to travel to her country for work so as to be there over a weekend. A weekend long date!
To top it off, it's Father's Day weekend here and this was the weekend he was wining, dining, dancing, partying, lounging by the pool, teaching her to swim and again taking her to dinner... This was the weekend SHE was in his hotel room, showering and changing inbetween swimming and dinner... this was the weekend he kissed her... all in between our children skyping him for Father's Day and him saying how much he 'loved and missed' them and how much he 'wished he was home with them' Crappy weekend ahead for me.
I hope the new psychologist is wonderful!
I'm hoping so too.
what GOOD reason would he have for saving her number under A DIFFERENT NAME in his contact list?
Ah, crap Jana♥ have you asked him why? Sorry to say but I can't think of any 'good' reason why he would do such a thing.
let's be honest, we are certainly not the ones who are pathetic!
You're right ttlshocker♥ they are the ones who are pathetic but unfortunately our WS's previous actions and present attitudes can make us feel that way.
I used to be a fairly opimistic person... not so much anymore.
Lying to your kids on Father's Day of all days? What kind of man, what kind of father does that?
Father's Day is going to be a non event in this house, since our kids all know (2 adult and one mid-teen) none of them feel anything about Father's Day anymore... and shame on me but I can't blame them. They'll go through the motions in the smallest way possible but there will be no joy, no celebrating him as a father... I doubt they'll ever do that again, they love him, he's their dad... but he's lost their respect entirely.
(don't mind me, just getting it out and off my chest, I have to steel myself for the day ahead)
Your 'French' is well and truly pardoned Jana♥ if you're anything like me all this shit we are dealing with has brought out the foulest language of your life... has he given you any reason (good or otherwise) as to why he saved her number under another name?
Ironically my WH had his ONS on his birthday while he was a way on a business trip... Right after my kids and I called him to wish him a happy birthday! Maybe she was in the room, because he sounded so different!
I don't get why he would save her under a different name??? Odd...
What are your instincts telling you!?
Will we ever get over this?
In other news... LOL... I had my first session with the new MC today and I was impressed! I doubt very much that my WH will be as impressed as she agrees that EVERYTHING I have asked of my WH is not only reasonable but mandatory for R. WH has often said that I expect too much from him... she feels differently. I am feeling very validated at the moment and that's a feeling I have not had in a very long while (yes, I am needy in the area atm but you get that) It also reassured me that she was very disturbed by WH's continued lies to me post DDay and agrees that that has caused as much (if not more) damage to our relationship that anything else.
She asked what my goals were and feels she has the ability to help me/us achieve them... now to get WH totally on board... Ah well, I never thought any of this would be easy **sigh** He has already called to see how I went and I told him he has his solo appointment next week for her to get his POV on things. Fingers crossed that goes well but I am feeling very positive about this woman.
WTWU, I hope everything goes well with this new counselor!
Because of the way I discovered how this number is saved, I can't really confront him about it without revealing my source. I can see his contacts when they're synced on the computer. I just happened to notice the number, and remembered it was hers, and it was not under her name. BUT it's under ANOTHER woman's name - his old manager, who he can't stand. I do NOT understand why he'd put it under another woman's name - isn't Cheating 101 that you put it under a man's name?!?
This weekend I was able to get into his phone briefly. He had a lot of beer on Saturday and fell asleep with his phone in his hand, unlocked (yeah, he PW protected it after our big blowout about this FB girl - said he was tired of my snooping). So I looked through his texts and his facebook messages. Nothing. Nothing from her. Then I looked at his contacts, to see if she was still in there under the wrong name. Yup. Except I'm not used to his phone, so I accidentally flippin' called her! At 1:07 in the morning! Then while I was trying to figure out how to end the damn call, I called her again. FFS! So I did NOT know what to do. Finally I hit on the brilliant plan on tossing the phone under the blanket with him. So he would think he rolled over on the phone and butt-dialed the number in his sleep! LOL! But as far as I can tell, he hasn't called her back and she hasn't called him.
Honestly, I know this is kind of naive of me, but she just doesn't seem the type to cheat with a married man. I think he was being INCREDIBLY thoughtless on his trip and drank more than he let on to me. I think he was being INCREDIBLY thoughtless by calling her without letting me know. I know she's an old friend. I've had lunch with one of my old college friends before without him there (granted, dude is gay, but even if he weren't, I'd still want to have lunch with him). I really don't think there is anything going on. I want to think he either saved it that way by accident (BUT HOW?!?!) or, maddeningly, to keep me "off his back" or whatever about something he knew was harmless.
I know that one of his friends had his phone that night and texted several people, and Kay (that's the manager whose name FB manager was saved under) was one of the people he texted. I think that must have something to do with why that name of any others was used. I'm so fucking confused, you guys. I hate being in this place where I have to find things out by being sneaky and I cannot just talk to him.
I'm so frustrated. Minute by minute my feelings change about what I think I should do. He's so excellent and loving with our daughter. He takes good care of our house. He works hard and had built a successful business out of nothing in a little over two years' time. I do think, in his own way, he tries. But then I go back to the feelings of doubt and uncertainty. It's been a YEAR and I'm more conflicted now than I was in the days following D-Day. How long can I take this?!?!?!