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User Topic: One Night Stand Support Thread - II
poopylala
♀ Member
Member # 30119
Default  Posted: 10:05 PM, July 24th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

PLT, I think if there are major questions you're still having, then you need to ask them. I know that if something is bothering me, it would haunt me in my dreams until I resolved it. Wbf didn't do any of the stuff I see some of the WS in Wayward forum do or talk about. At first I was afraid that meant wbf wasn't remorseful but I knew in my gut he was very sorry he did what he did. I wanted the letters and little love notes, the apologies as long as a novel, etc. I wanted the niagara falls-in-tears thing. I wanted the down-on-one-knee begging to be given a chance. Did I get any of those grand gestures? NO. You know why? Because half that stuff is from movies and movies are idealized. Also I realized that wbf has his own ways of showing things and I took the 5 languages of apology quiz online and mine (forgot the actual name) was basically where I felt in my gut wbf truly meant he was sorry. I needed sincerity. Wbf in the beginning would not talk about things and would shut me out. Eventually when he realized that wouldn't make things go away and he opened his eyes more to my pain, we began to talk more and go to counseling. That to me was how I knew he was remorseful. He didn't want to go but he wanted to help me feel better and wanted to show he would do what it took.

What is your H's love language? Wbf and I learned we had to speak to each other's love language rather than just our own which I think alot of people mistakenly do. Seeing him try to plan quality time to speak to MY love language was awesome. He planned a date for us and he opened up to me in a deep conversation about a problem he had with online gaming. I mean all of this was huge for me and THAT is how I knew we were heading in the right direction. Look at his LL and maybe take the apology quiz and show him so he can see personalized ways to show you he's remorseful perhaps?


Tsol, that train of thought is scary but I really doubt he would have done anything and not told you. I mean he told you about ons so I would bet all my life savings that he didn't do anything. (((tsol)))


BGF (me)- 24
FWBF (him)- 24
in a LTR

forgiven and in R :)

"To err is human.
To forgive,
divine"


Posts: 956 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: Houston, TX
JanaGreen
♀ Member
Member # 29341
Default  Posted: 10:04 AM, July 25th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well it's been a rough time for us. I think you've all seen my posts on R. Not sure whether to count today or tomorrow as the anniversary of the ONS - on the 25th he was out getting hammered, and the actual contact with the girl took place early in the morning on the 26th, maybe around 2:00ish from what I recall from the phone logs?

Either way, UGH. UGH. UGH.

Yesterday I went to Borders looking for some books that MC had recommended for me - one being "Courage to Change" - which is an Al-Anon book, and the other being "The Seven Principles That Make Marriage Work" (that title might not be completely accurate) by John Gottman. Gottman is the researcher who started observing couples back in the 1970s and now writes about the way they interact and what it says about their marriage. He says that he and his team can predict with 91% accuracy which couples will be divorced in four years. Pretty crazy stuff.

Anyway, I was mad b/c Borders didn't have either book, so I went to B&N and ended up getting not the Gottman book I was looking for, but another one titled something like Why Marriages Succeed or Fail. Also purchased Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay and stayed up for a very long time last night reading that one, and just managed to confuse myself more (which is depressing considering that that book is geared to help you work through your ambivalence). So I started reading the Gottman book and I think there are some really good lessons in there. I'm going to read that and order the other books.

Courage to Change is to help me hopefully stop expecting ABC from Mr. G when what he is capable of giving is XTZ.

I don't know what's going to happen. Things have been calm and peaceful but I am still reeling about his doubts and his hesitancy to recommit to me.

We did have an interaction yesterday that I found pretty encouraging. H has worked with a lady, we'll call her R, in the course of his business. She works for another company but they are not paying her enough salary + commission for her to live on, and she's approached H several times via email about working with him. She seems bright and aggressive, he's discussed her with me before. We both agreed that he's not really sure whether he'd be able to pay her enough to make it worth her while, but that she has exactly the right kind of personality. He told me yesterday that he is going to meet with her on Wednesday to discuss ways they can work together. Which gave me an anxious feeling BUT he told me. And he didn't have to tell me - the only way I would have known is if I had randomly happened to go to lunch at that Panera that day, which is pretty unlikely given that it's generally crowded as hell and I don't have time to deal with that during my lunch break.

So I'm encouraged that he told me, and I bit back the interrogation that wanted to spill out of my mouth at that point. Because this is exactly the kind of thing I WANT him to tell me, so I don't want to punish him with 20 Questions about whether he thinks R is pretty etc. etc.

So eh. Who knows. At least by Wednesday the anniversary of the ONS will be behind me. Then I just have to wait for the anniversary of D-Day to pass and I will know at that point that I made it a year and didn't die.


We're both in our 30s. One awesome 4-year-old daughter.

Posts: 6171 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Somewhere in the South
phoenix34
♀ New Member
Member # 32007
Default  Posted: 1:57 PM, July 25th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Because half that stuff is from movies and movies are idealized

Poopylala you are very right here. When I was quite young I went out with a very charming boy who made all the grand gestures but sadly he lacked the ability to be genuine in his actions. He was a very unhappy person and it didn't end well, bless him.

Jana - sounds as though you are really going through it at the moment. This is such a rollercoaster isn't it? Is the anniversary of D day soon after the ONS anniversary?

I will know at that point that I made it a year and didn't die

It really feels like that, doesn't it? Well done. You made it. Year 2 will be a little bit easier.

Is the Gottman book the one where he talks about contempt shown by partners towards one another? if so, I think I read a summary of that in a magazine about relationships that came with a newspaper. It was very interesting - do you think the whole book is worth a read?

I spoke too soon about feeling okay. I am so stupid, I went onto the forum she posts on today and discovered she's back, posting again. Nothing about us, but just noticed she has a boyfriend and said she's loving living in London. Really pissed me off, I like to imagine she's not that happy. I don't want anything bad to happen to her, or for her to be really miserable, but just a bit... unfulfilled in her life. Anyway, it just started me thinking about it all over again and feeling sick. Hopefully tomorrow will be better.

[This message edited by phoenix34 at 1:59 PM, July 25th (Monday)]


Starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel now!

Posts: 50 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From: UK
JanaGreen
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Member # 29341
Default  Posted: 2:36 PM, July 25th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is the Gottman book the one where he talks about contempt shown by partners towards one another? if so, I think I read a summary of that in a magazine about relationships that came with a newspaper. It was very interesting - do you think the whole book is worth a read?

Yes, I think so. I'm 45 pages into Why Marriages Survive or Fail. I haven't gotten into the Four Horseman section (these are the marriage killers) but just by flipping forward I see that I am guilty of two of them and he is guilty of the other two. Um, whoops. It's already causing me to evaluate my behavior (not saying I'm responsible for our problems, but I am the only person I can control).

OK, in case you're interested - Four Horsemen are:

Criticism (different from complaint b/c you are attacking character, not action)
Contempt
Defensiveness
Stonewalling

ETA: D-Day is Aug 10. He told me two weeks after the fact.

I'm sorry the slut puppy is posting happy stuff. Remember that she probably only posts the good stuff. If you looked at my Facebook page you'd think I lived in Puppies and Rainbows land, because that's all I feel comfortable putting out for mass consumption by all my friends and families. I wouldn't believe everything she posts. It might not be all unicorns and glitter in her life, you know?

[This message edited by JanaGreen at 3:17 PM, July 25th (Monday)]


We're both in our 30s. One awesome 4-year-old daughter.

Posts: 6171 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Somewhere in the South
tsol25
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Member # 29461
Default  Posted: 4:04 PM, July 25th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jana,
I'm sorry things have been crappy lately, I hope they pick up regardless of the directions things go. Hopefully you feel better after all this dday stuff passes. I'm not looking forward to the end of August at all, except may as you put it, to say I survived. I'm kind of interested in the book, I know I'm guilty of some of those as is wbf.

Pheonix,

Year 2 will be a little bit easier.

I certainly hope so.
Wbf was huge on the grand gestures in the beginning of the relationship. And for a while I missed that he stopped doing it. At this point I've come to enjoy the comfort of not having to try to one up each other (I couldn't let him win) all the time.
eta: I also don't post about the bad (except for here ) Aside from SI, the 1 friend I told about the ons (who I haven't discussed it with since Nov or Dec) and wbf, we have the picture perfect relationship to all others who many inquire or observe from afar.

I might have jinxed things a little as well, this weekend got a little bit rocky. He went out on Saturday and I had my mind made up that we were doing something (oh, no no I didn't tell him this) so while he was out I started to panic about what could be going on. Then I had a dream about me finding his secret stash of cocaine and the police finding me and our baby. I usually don't remember my dreams but this did sort of make sense - the cocaine was the ons I was worried he was having. A lot of this comes from his current lack of cell phone so I get worried when I can't get ahold of him. He's been doing good about sending me a message on facebook if he can borrow someone's computer for a minute but often I don't check fb.

[This message edited by tsol25 at 12:25 AM, July 26th (Tuesday)]


me - tsol, that's all for now

Posts: 1208 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Canada
peacelovetea
♀ Member
Member # 26071
Default  Posted: 6:30 PM, July 25th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Our MC had us read Gottman's Seven Principles book first thing when we started. Its very good stuff, for sure. We did the exercises at home for awhile, I think it was very helpful for WS since he hadn't really done any FOO work or anything before, less so for me since I had been in IC before. Gottman is the leading researcher into marriage and his stuff really stands up.

lala, I am still asking, I just don't know if we'll ever have answers. He has to be willing to do the work to come up with them and I don't know if he will. He has spent so much time trying to divert attention, avoid, go around, insist he is tryyyying, etc that its like asking a 4 year old to clean their room. The only thing missing was the temper tantrum, though I guess I got an adult version of that more than once too!

Its not that I want the movie reel apology (well, ok, I would take that haha) its that I have given him tons of suggestions of things that would help me, and he either does them once and then never again, or he just... doesn't. I have gone out of my way to do his love language (set up a weekly babysitter for goodness sakes -- he is quality time) but my problem is that he keeps trying to use his LL on me, even though my LL is words of affirmation. I just kinda feel like, its not so much WHAT, as that I feel the urgency to fix it, that I feel like he is totally committed and willing to do things that are out of his normal pattern to do it, not just what's easy. My IC says that I will know, to trust my gut, but there's no sustained effort, you know? Then I start to wonder why the hell I am willing to go all in if he isn't, and my lose respect for him as someone who isn't intent on doing everything to make a situation he created right, and I think I am settling or overcompromising and do I really want to spend the rest of my life with this person? Then I think about my kids and my going to school in the fall and the refusing-to-die hope that he will actually GET IT one day and round and round I go.

Jana, I am so sorry this is all happening. I can't believe he is being this way! I just finished reading The Emotionally Unavailable Man and thought it was really useful -- I totally thought to myself Jana needs to read this! I think a lot of WHs fall into this pattern, and that's part of their "why" of the ONS -- I gave it to WH to read yesterday, will report back if it seems useful to him. I really liked it, it has a "for men" side and a "for women" side. Maybe? Hang in there, I hope the antiversaries pass and things get better. Do you think WH was triggering because of the DDay and was stupid as a result? I often forget WH triggers too, because his are so unconscious even he doesn't know what is happening until his IC or I point it out.

tsol -- sorry you had a triggery weekend. Those suck.


BW, SAHM
D-Day: 6/5/09, drunken ONS on business trip, confessed immediately, transparent, remorseful but emotionally clueless
M 11 years, 3 kids
4/12 Tried to R for 3 years, have decided to D
12/31/12 D final

Posts: 526 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: PacNW
Want To Wake Up
♀ Member
Member # 31583
Default  Posted: 11:06 AM, August 1st (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I haven't read this entire thread (37 pages... yikes!)and I haven't posted that much (oh look, 66 posts, I guess that is 'much')... but I suppose I belong in here, kinda, sorta... it's a complicated story (aren't they all?)

My story is too long to go into detail (again, aren't they all?) but the short version is WH spent much of 2009 travelling overseas for work (around 70% of the year... much, much more than ever before and for much longer periods than ever before) and ended up having a ONS with two hookers (yes, two at once **blerk**... does that technically make it equal to a 'two night stand'?)


I discovered it at the end of 2009 and have been living the nightmare since. So that's my sad criteria for poking my head in this thread... but he also had at least one EA & inappropriate behaviour with women while overseas (the EA I discovered he actually 'dated' several times... I saw some of the emails arranging it all)


Don't really know where I am going with this post, it's very late here and my mind is wandering off on a tangent... I think it (our M) may all be over after tonight... I guess I just want to belong... somewhere.


Me 50+
WH 50+ (SlowUptake)
DDay '09
"He didn't cheat because I wasn't enough, he cheated because HE wasn't enough"

"Unhappy marriages don't cause infidelity. Being unfaithful causes infidelity."


Posts: 456 | Registered: Mar 2011
JanaGreen
♀ Member
Member # 29341
Default  Posted: 9:54 AM, August 3rd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Want to Wake Up, hello, welcome. I am so sorry you're dealing with all this pain. How are you feeling, you mentioned when you posted that your marriage may be over?!?! Is everything ok?

This thread has been slow lately but please keep posting, it may be a few days but eventually someone will bump it up and see your posts. I hope you're feeling better today.


We're both in our 30s. One awesome 4-year-old daughter.

Posts: 6171 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Somewhere in the South
Want To Wake Up
♀ Member
Member # 31583
Default  Posted: 6:33 PM, August 3rd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Jana, thanks for the reply.

I don't know where my M is headed atm. I gave him until the end of July for a detailed timeline... and I am still waiting and close to giving up on him, our marriage, our life.

I'm 19mths into this living hell and still I am waiting, waiting for signs of true remorse (and all that goes with it) not just signs that he's sorry he got caught out and now has to deal with my reaction to it IYKWIM

My story is in my journal (I'll uncheck it from being private in case you want to read it, the main story on the 4/22/2011 entry... the rest is pretty much me ranting and raving)

I have had IC (but honestly it didn't do much, I'm trying to find another one who has experience with dealing with the aftermath of infidelity) and we did have MC last year but he wasn't really co-operating with that. It's a waste of time and money when he goes to MC and lies!

His lies are the big problem, they are his 'fall back', always have been. He is a passive aggressive, conflict avoider who has used lies (either directly or of ommission) to "handle" our relationship (handle me!) for over 30yrs, I have only truly realised this since DDay.

Now he tells me he no longer lies to me about anything but... after realising you've lived with a liar your entire adult life it's a bit like the boy who cried wolf.


Me 50+
WH 50+ (SlowUptake)
DDay '09
"He didn't cheat because I wasn't enough, he cheated because HE wasn't enough"

"Unhappy marriages don't cause infidelity. Being unfaithful causes infidelity."


Posts: 456 | Registered: Mar 2011
tsol25
♀ Member
Member # 29461
Default  Posted: 10:27 AM, August 8th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey, I'm still around, I've been following but haven't been able to get a legible post out. I've been kinda triggery lately. Too much going on this month.
-exams (over the next 2 months)
-trying to find a placement for fall
-adjusting to new work hours
-moved last week (re. packing my life, unpacking my life and not being able to find any of my things -including my mind)
-my sister is up to her usual 'can't get life straightened out' behaviour
-upcoming Aug 24

wtwu,
sorry you are here, but welcome. We are a smaller group in here so like Jana said, sometimes were slower. I have some ea to my story, they do all differ a little.
Did you tell him of a consequence of not giving you the timeline by July? Do you know what consequence you are comfortable with?

(((plt & jana)))


me - tsol, that's all for now

Posts: 1208 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Canada
Want To Wake Up
♀ Member
Member # 31583
Default  Posted: 1:19 PM, August 8th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wtwu,
sorry you are here, but welcome.

Hi tsol & thank you,

Did you tell him of a consequence of not giving you the timeline by July?


I (stupidly) didn't tell him of any consequences because he agreed to have it completed on time, he promised me (yep, I took him at his word because that's worked sooooo well for me in the past... NOT!)


I have since asked when he'll have it completed but all I get is a vague "I don't know" or "it's hard for me to think about it all" He doesn't like the negative emotions it causes within himself (yeah, I know, he's protecting himself from pain... at the expense of mine)


He doesn't feel it's necessary as we have talked (ad nauseum) about the details but... they keep changing. Little descrepancies creep in to the point that I don't know that I have the whole story, and I am one of those BS's that need the whole story.


I was about to say that the only real consequence I could give him is ending the M but you've got me thinking. I feel we need to go back to MC (he refuses point blank to have any IC) I need an outside perspective on all this and I think he would benefit from it too. Many times he's had a turning point was when someone else (besides me, the wounded wife) would tell him 'what for' IYKWIM


Reading here has improved his attitude quite a bit. It doesn't matter that it's exactly the same things I say I need from him, hearing it (or reading it) from someone else makes him pay more attention.


I'll discuss resuming MC with him in the next few days and let you know how it pans out. Money is an issue atm but I think it will cost us far more to continue the way we are in the long run.



Me 50+
WH 50+ (SlowUptake)
DDay '09
"He didn't cheat because I wasn't enough, he cheated because HE wasn't enough"

"Unhappy marriages don't cause infidelity. Being unfaithful causes infidelity."


Posts: 456 | Registered: Mar 2011
poopylala
♀ Member
Member # 30119
Default  Posted: 9:07 PM, August 8th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WTWU, why don't you try setting up consequences now? It's never too late to start? I knew I could never follow through with the consequence of breaking up so I said "I need X to feel safe. If after some time I still don't feel safe, I'm going to reevaluate this relationship. I don't want to leave as of right now but I need to feel respected and safe"


OW#2's SO messaged me back yesterday. and by messaged me back I mean he replied to the message I sent him in January.. But he said he split up with her and she told him her side of the story but she kinda clouded his judgement. I'm glad I sent him a message about what had happened and I'm glad he messaged me. We had nice supportive words for each other and now we are on our separate ways and I wish him all the best. I told wbf this guy contacted me and he was okay with me talking to him briefly but I did not accept his friend request. I told the guy I wasn't going to but that I was glad he messaged me and if he had any questions in the future he was more than welcome to message me again.

Wednesday will be 9 months since DDay and I feel good! We have successfully gotten through any arguments recently by using what we learned in CC about communication. It's been great knowing that we're still working together on things. He is about to buy his first car and he's so cute- he's talking about next year when I can buy mine and then how we can live together and how he's proud of me for sticking with a difficult major and weve been talking a bit about the future.

It's taken a lot of work but it's very nice to see it paying off. I talked to my mom about if she was happy (my dad cheated multiple times on her before she kicked him out when I was little) and she said she would rather be single than be in a bad relationship. I think when you learn your boundaries and your bottom line, you are more confident in sticking up for yourself and as much as I hate knowing my mom was hurt like that, this also serves as inspiration to stick up for myself. I'd rather be single than be with someone who was as bad as my dadw was to her.

Anyways, I hope all is well with y'all! Summer is almost over


BGF (me)- 24
FWBF (him)- 24
in a LTR

forgiven and in R :)

"To err is human.
To forgive,
divine"


Posts: 956 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: Houston, TX
JanaGreen
♀ Member
Member # 29341
Default  Posted: 10:02 AM, August 9th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ugh, WTWU, I know what you mean about him getting it if he hears it from someone else. I think he thinks I just enjoy wallowing in misery or something and am doing this for fun.

lala, glad to hear things are going well for you guys!

As for us . . . well. We had the discussion a few weeks ago where we talked about how we both have doubts about the marriage. Things have been overall calm but it feels like thin ice over an abyss. Do you like my mixed metaphor? I ugly cried on Saturday because he made a cutting remark about my friends. I would have shrugged it off were we doing fine, but when I don't really know how he feels about me, it felt like total condemnation. We talked that out, so that was good.

What's killing me right now is that he is talking about selling our house (it's on the market), and renting some small house or condo and buying a house at the beach. Because he hates living in TN and he sees this as compromise with me because I don't want to move. And he's not sure if he wants to have another baby, even if we do stay together.

I am devestated by this and feel like I had the thing I wanted the most on this planet dangled in front of me and then snatched away.

He said, "I just don't think having another baby will solve everything." Well NO, of course not! I don't want to have another baby to solve things with us. I want to have another baby because I WANT ANOTHER BABY. Shortly after D-Day, he told me that it would make the happiest man in the world if somehow we could stay together and have another baby someday. I want to cry every time I think that I might not get to have another child.

And the whole rent here, buy at the beach thing? WTF? It almost sounds like a MLC. It's not uncommon for him, when we have had problems in the past, to want to run off on a big fancy vacation. But I mentioned how I wanted to have a big backyard, etc. for Baby Green, and he said that she'd be fine without that. Well, shit. He wants to lower our standard of living here so we can buy a condo at the beach for vacations? It makes no fucking sense.

What makes it even MORE non-sensical is that in his line of work, he gets a lot of free hotel stays and free nights at cabins/condos all over the place, including several beach areas. Why buy a place at one beach when you can take vacations free at several different places? OMG you guys it gives me a headache. Seriously. Advil time.

I am hoping all this is his way of dealing with the anniversary stress (D-Day anniversary is tomorrow). I am trying to keep myself calm and ride this out until after D-Day and try to work on keeping things in our marriage positive. But whenever I think about the baby issue, I start getting panicked.

So this was a long ramble. Sorry!

[This message edited by JanaGreen at 10:04 AM, August 9th (Tuesday)]


We're both in our 30s. One awesome 4-year-old daughter.

Posts: 6171 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Somewhere in the South
tsol25
♀ Member
Member # 29461
Default  Posted: 12:50 PM, August 9th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wtwu,
I think we all have troubles adding consequences to the boundaries. Like, with children it seems normal, there's a variety of options. But with your SO, "I'll take away your computer" just doesn't fit. I think mc might help especially if he's more receptive to other people. You could even tell mc about the timeline issue.

Jana,
that does sound like a predicament. I really don't know what to say, but oy! And what a bomb to drop about the baby #2 issue. Has he gotten any of the questions you have about when you're going to have baby2? I wouldn't expect it as much, him being the guy, but maybe that's gotten him worn down and thinks taking kids off the table would make it better? Or maybe just because things are so rocky lately he's not sure about adding another baby right now and rather than saying that (because we know verbiage isn't really his strong point) is seeing it as all or nothing? I'm seriously about to bang my head off my desk repeatedly for you, if you are doing the same, grab a pillow


me - tsol, that's all for now

Posts: 1208 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Canada
Want To Wake Up
♀ Member
Member # 31583
Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, August 14th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you all just for being here♥ it helps just knowing I am not alone in all this (although it also breaks my heart knowing I am not alone too IYKWM I'd rather no one else ever had to go through this)

WTWU, why don't you try setting up consequences now? It's never too late to start? I knew I could never follow through with the consequence of breaking up so I said "I need X to feel safe. If after some time I still don't feel safe, I'm going to reevaluate this relationship. I don't want to leave as of right now but I need to feel respected and safe"


Lala, the only consequence would be ending the marriage and like you I too am not ready to do that. I have told him that ALL of my needs so far have been about my feeling safe and secure again within this marriage but all I get is "I'm trying" or "It's not in me to do that"

Ugh, WTWU, I know what you mean about him getting it if he hears it from someone else. I think he thinks I just enjoy wallowing in misery or something and am doing this for fun.


Jana, I have heard those exact words from him, that I enjoy wallowing in this pain. Funnily enough he has asked in the past why I don't "just stop" feeling this way. I countered with why didn't HE "just stop" feeling the way he was before he screwed around on me... he didn't have an answer for that.

wtwu,
I think we all have troubles adding consequences to the boundaries. Like, with children it seems normal, there's a variety of options. But with your SO, "I'll take away your computer" just doesn't fit. I think mc might help especially if he's more receptive to other people. You could even tell mc about the timeline issue.


tsol, there's not a lot I can come up with as consequences other than ending the marriage.


You make me LOL with the "I'll take away your computer" line as I have just instigated that with DD14 as a consequence of her actions of late (or rather inaction, why can't teenagers keep their rooms tidy?) I know you didn't intend for it to be a consequence for my WH but if you knew how many computers were in this house you'd laugh too. He is very tech savvy and builds the darn things (there are only 5 of us living here yet we have 6 PCs and 5 laptops here!)


I talked to him last week about the timeline being completed and he doesn't see the need as he's told me everything already. I countered with it's MY need, he doesn't have to see the value in it, he doesn't have to agree with my reasoning... he just needs to do it.

He told me again he'd "work on it" but I pressed for a deadline and he said he'd work on it this past Sunday (yesterday I was out much of the day so he would have the time to do so)


I have just checked the file on his computer and he hasn't even opened it. I am at my wits end.


I do want us to resume MC but there are a few issues there as well. Money is one as our health insurance doesn't cover any type of counselling unless it is under the mental health act (we have to get our doctor to refer us) and then it's not available for couples under insurance, just individuals and only for a max 12 sessions a year.


Last time we were in MC (last year) WH continued the lies and also ignored the advice given (as in his eyes it didn't apply to him) I'm a bit hesitant to fork out the dollars for him to sit and say "yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir" to the counsellor only to have him walk out and ignore all that was said IYKWIM He really doesn't like being "told what to do"


His main complaint atm is that I show him no affection, that he is "getting nothing" from me. I feel he is attempting to manipulate me into getting what he wants without giving me what I need. I have explained that I am not capable of showing him affection and meeting his needs until I feel safe once again.


I am very upset that he didn't even attempt the timeline this weekend as I thought we had had a productive discussion about it, I though I had made him understand my needs.


Any suggestions any of you have as to appropriate consequences would be appreciated at this point as I feel he is still being passive aggressive with me (he is passive aggressive and conflict avoidant) and only saying what I want to hear to end our conversations about it all as quickly as possible IYKWIM Once again putting his comfort level ahead of mine.

[This message edited by Want To Wake Up at 1:05 PM, August 14th (Sunday)]


Me 50+
WH 50+ (SlowUptake)
DDay '09
"He didn't cheat because I wasn't enough, he cheated because HE wasn't enough"

"Unhappy marriages don't cause infidelity. Being unfaithful causes infidelity."


Posts: 456 | Registered: Mar 2011
poopylala
♀ Member
Member # 30119
Default  Posted: 9:24 PM, August 17th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Have y'all taken the love language quiz? It sounds like his LL might be physical touch and in order to feel the love, you'd have to speak to his LL but that also means for YOU to feel the love he'd need to speak to YOUR LL. This quiz really helped wbf and I with making each other feel special and loved- just google 5 languages of love quiz and each of y'all take it and discuss the results.


As far as his actions, I really don't think they ever understand the gist of what it feels like to not feel safe. Wbf never got it in the beginning and it wasn't until I worked with IC to be open and vulnerable and feel the emotional stuff. THen I became like a giant walking heart full of feelings and I told wbf anything and everything that bothered me because essentially I couldn't sleep or I had horrible nightmares if something was up and I didn't address it. But I had to get to the point where I was strong and independent rather than the co-dependent person I was before. I didn't fear what life would be like with him. I was empowered to live my own life and I think that really helped me stand up for myself and wbf was affected by it too. Initially when I told him what I needed and he didn't follow through, I 180ed his ass so hard. I needed him to take responsbility for part of the relationship because I had done it for so long. I told him that he needed to do the calling, the texting and the initiating plans because I refused to do it anymore and that I hoped it'd help him understand even a smidgeon (spell check?) of what I'd been doing the whole time he checked out of the relationship and started other ones. At first he didn't do anything and then one day he called me out of the blue to see how my day was going so I thought he was understanding and willing to work it out. Then he started complaining that I never texted him, that i only texted when he texted me. And I told him that was because it was his responsibility to initiate everything until I felt like we could move on but for then I needed that. He didn't get why but he certainly got irritated and yes I even went so far as to say "now you know how I've been feeling only I feel that frustration 1000x worse than you do now."

And then in the spring when I had the self-empowering feeling, wbf made a comment one time that he felt like I didn't need him anymore and I told him I didn't, that I was in the relationship now because I chose to be not because I felt I had to be. That was a huge shocker for him. I said I could be with him or without him and I was okay with either because I knew I would survive.

Actually when I was feeling all this independence, it was because I started making time for ME. I found myself again. I was my own identity. I chose to hang out with friends or when he had plans to hang with me but got side tracked talking to his parents, I wouldn't wait around after calling once or twice. Instead I did something on my own. And when he would finally come get me (I don't have a car) I would be busy and told him I wasn't waiting all day for him to see me. One of the issues we had that was addressed in CC was communication (main issue) and I felt some resentment towards his family because either he would use them as an excuse to not do something with me (oh I don't know if I can go to XYZ friday, I have to see what my family is doing first- total BS if he told them he had plans they'd be cool with it) or he would forget to tell me he was running late because he was talking to his dad which I would understand so instead it was like I was always coming in second place.

Whew sorry I don't even know what I've just written it was more like typing vomit? You know, as in word vomit when you just say a bunch of stuff? yeah.. lol


Okay wtwu, I say all the above because I think the best thing you can do for yourself right now is to take wtwu-time and just do things for you. When y'all do have talks, tell him point blank that your heart and your safety go hand-in-hand and if you don't feel safe you don't feel affectionate; tell him people don't want to hug on or smooch their rapist or their murderers and if he gets upset that you're comparing him to a rapist or a murderer, tell him the need for safety is all the same, that your world has been turned upside down and to even begin to rebuild trust you need to see from him that he's even willing to help you out. Because trust doesn't just happen, it's earned and right now he is really making your trust bank go into the negatives- he's in trust-debt. Rather than say "do this or I'll __" tell him you need what you need in order to feel safe and then when trust is being earned you'll be more open to affection. It's like when you're first dating- you don't go straight into sex you take the time to build the relationship through being vulnerable and opening up and building that trust.

Jana, I am so sorry :( Did he make the remark about your friends out of spite or was it totally random and not in the heat of the moment (although that doesn't excuse it anyways..)? I think it's awful that he might possibly deny you another child that you obviously want. Have you asked him why he has changed his mind on that issue? As for the house thing, I think renting a beach house and owning a home would be much smarter but I understand people's priorities change. Could y'all sit down and have an honest talk about what you each need right now and what you each want and what you want to focus on right now? I know after DDay my priorities changed majorly. I suddenly wasn't interested in marriage, kids, etc. I stopped talking about those kinds of things altogether. In fact I was more focused on myself which I needed to be but I talked with wbf about it when we were having our serious talks.


Things with us have continued to progress as have things with my dad. I haven't had the chance to talk with him but I actually enjoy his company now and I feel so much of what I've learned through SI and IC and CC has helped me understand my relationships with those around me so much better.

On a totally random note, I am under dr orders not to talk because I had a chronic sore throat this summer from talking so much at summer camp (I teach dance and talking over music is difficult sometimes) and the irritation of that caused nodules on my vocal chords along with some hemorrhaging so if I don't want my voice permanently sounding like I chain smoked for a few years aka raspy/scratchy/hoarse, I can't talk and if that doesn't help I'll need speech therapy to freaking learn how to cough and clear my throat correctly who knew there was such a thing School starts next week for me and in teh spring when I learned wbf stayed with OW#1 in her dorm room for a weekend, I thought I'd never be able to have him stay in mine without me triggering (he lives <10 minutes away from school so he never stays with me, I'd stay with him rather) but I've been more focused on the present rather than the past and although sometimes thoughts about both OW pop into my head I don't really feel so triggery and upset anymore. It's more like "it is what it is and we've moved forward" and that feels good. I read an amazing book tonight about 3 unlikely friends who weathered a hurricane together and grew as individuals because of this friendship and it totally reminded me of how much I've grown since DDay and how I've built some very unlikely friendships. I mean as much as I hate it all, tsol and I have become super good friends because we met here. it just made me appreciate where I am today and how much I've grown as a person.

So I shall say goodnight as I need to sleep tons and hope my throat heals sooner rather than later

And I apologize for my total ramble tonight. I'm just not coherent in thought haha


BGF (me)- 24
FWBF (him)- 24
in a LTR

forgiven and in R :)

"To err is human.
To forgive,
divine"


Posts: 956 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: Houston, TX
Want To Wake Up
♀ Member
Member # 31583
Default  Posted: 10:07 AM, August 24th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Rather than say "do this or I'll __" tell him you need what you need in order to feel safe


Poopy, I have tried multiple ways of wording my requests from simple requests for what I need to feel "safe" with him agaim to outright demands... neither have much effect on him. He really doesn't like being told what to do! He's somewhat passive aggressive (it varies, sometimes he is very PA, other times not so much... or maybe I am so used to it now I can't even see it for what it is and after 30yrs it has made me somewhat PA too ) and he is very, very, very conflict avoidant.


I finally got the timeline... and what a piss poor effort it is, a very santisied account of one mans descent into debauchery. None of the details I requested (yep, I am one of those that needs to know the nitty gritty) The account has changed from his previous versions.


While there was some new information (upsetting but I'd rather know that not) there is no real detail IYKWIM


I'm just glad I have made an appointment with a new MC for early next month (although truth be told, I don't know if he'll go... but I'll have IC at any rate)


then when trust is being earned you'll be more open to affection.


One of his main complaints about me is that he is getting nothing from me, no affection, no encouragement and that's true... BUT (and I have told him this) the reason for that is that whenever I have shown any affection or encouragement he regresses. It's as though he 'ticks' that box as 'done' and stops and goes back to living his life as though none of this happened IYKWIM so yes, I don't (and I won't) 'give' until he starts to give to me... with no expectation of anything in return for the time being at least. He still has to prove himself to me. He'll do most of the right things (not all, never all) for a few days and when he sees no change in me it all stops. I think he expects too much too fast from me IMO He wants 'instant gratification', he wants a 'pat on the back' without putting in any consistent effort.


We are not in R atm we are only working towards R (or at least I am trying to) and I have yet to be convinved that he has what it takes to R. I know at some point I have to take that risk but I am not there... yet. I don't feel he's done the hard work yet, not really looked into himself enough to find his "why" IYKWIM (he flatly refuses IC) Maybe the MC will help with that although since he lied last time in MC I have my doubts he'll be honest this time, he doesn't feel comfortable discussing intensely private issues with a stranger... yet strangely he could fuck one (or more correctly, two strangers)... go figure!


Sorry for the ramble, it's late here and my mind is racing (and my fingers are typing wayyyy too fast)


Me 50+
WH 50+ (SlowUptake)
DDay '09
"He didn't cheat because I wasn't enough, he cheated because HE wasn't enough"

"Unhappy marriages don't cause infidelity. Being unfaithful causes infidelity."


Posts: 456 | Registered: Mar 2011
brokenandfedup
♀ Member
Member # 33186
Default  Posted: 2:28 PM, August 24th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi everyone,

I briefly read through the last 37 pages, and I have so much that I would like to say to you all individually, and promise to get to that at some point over the next couple days...

For now, I feel compelled to just post it out into cyberspace that on the evening of November 30, 2010, after putting my three beautiful children to bed, my husband changed the course of my life forever. Through tears, and I'm sorry's (countless I'm sorry's) he admitted to having a ONS with a woman he met at a bar during a business trip to South America the week before.

I'm sure you can all relate to how devastating the news would be. I didn't cry, I didn't yell, scream, get angry... I just asked him if this was the first time. He said yes, I walked away, and went outside for a cigarette.

I was numb.

For days, I walked around in a haze. Trying to act "normal" for my kids... until one day the flood gates opened and I bawled my eyes out.

I feel broken... as I'm sure you can all relate.

I feel like every piece of me, every joy, sadness, success and failure are a lie. The only truth, the only certainty, the ONLY thing I know for sure is that I have three beautiful kids, and I am their mother. Every other part of my life feels like a lie.

I will post a better version of my story. A more complete and detailed story, but just "putting it out there" after holding it in for so long feels so good...

Thx

[This message edited by brokenandfedup at 2:30 PM, August 24th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 519 | Registered: Aug 2011
poopylala
♀ Member
Member # 30119
Default  Posted: 10:04 PM, August 24th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Broken, My dday was Nov 10-13, 2010 so I'm not far ahead of you. We unfortunately do completely understand the shock (feeling numb) right after DDay. I was lucky to find this place within a couple of days of DDay so I felt a sense of relief immediately, talking and getting support and some direction as to where to go. I am so sorry you find yourself here ((((hugs)))) Have you read the Healing Library? Are YOU in IC? This forum is a little slower but we are all here for each other The road to R can be very difficult and it can totally be worth it, but it's up to you. I hope we can be of some help to you when you do get a chance to post more about your story.

WTWU, I am so sorry his timeline was not up to par! I think in order to even be heading towards R he really needs to be honest and maybe you can check out the passive aggressive forum in ICR? I'm not sure if you already have but maybe learning how to talk to someone who is PA/conflict avoidant would help. Wbf was conflict avoidant so in CC,we both learned how to talk to each other and one thing was if he could answer my questions within the week, I became open to askinng my question and then letting him take the week to asnwer it because when I would push for an answer right then it would push him to retreat into his little shell. But as I began to back off he came out more. It was so hard to trust that he would get back to me but CC helped us understand that I learned to push because my dad did that to me and then when wbf retreated I was reacting to my dad's conflict avoidance so I'd push harder. It opened both our eyes to what was going on. Maybe in MC you can bring up that he hasn't been honest and he won't try harder and you're beginning to lose faith that he is even committed to making it work. It took about 3 months before I felt wbf was actually trying. But those 3 months were very trying, I won't lie.


Everyone else, I hope you are doing okay! Much love and support from the south, y'all!


BGF (me)- 24
FWBF (him)- 24
in a LTR

forgiven and in R :)

"To err is human.
To forgive,
divine"


Posts: 956 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: Houston, TX
Devestatedx5
♀ Member
Member # 16557
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, August 25th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome to the club NONE OF US EVER wanted to join, brokenandfedup. Our stories are SO similar - but there is hope.

I, too, can relate to the "numb - here in this world but not" feeling.

Keep reading and posting here, we can help you through this.

Have you -- and he -- been tested for STD's? If not, you both need to ASAP.


FBS-me (49)
FWH(57) ONS 8.19.07
Dday: 9.19.07
Married +26 years
RE-MARRIED 4.28.11
----------
Proverbs 31:10-31
Sometimes people are SO open-minded that that their brains fall out.

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