if it's OK to join in
I'm glad you brought up the Red Herring... We normally like to talk bird stuff here... So what would that Red Herring be? I guess that the reality of infidelity is... the length of the A just doesn't matter, it all hurts the same, be it a ONS or 20 year A.... I have said that before too.
I feel you and pray you peace.
[This message edited by trynhard at 5:39 PM, January 12th (Tuesday)]
i disagree with tryn, a ons cannot compare to an lta....the emotional connection that takes place during a lta is devastating at best...it all hurts, but not the same to me....the deeper the emotional connection to the op the greater the pain...jmho
so if and when you would like to share your story we are here.....
and about figuring it out after 9 years...i never figured it out until we were together for 23 years, she was there before me and all the way through...and he added a few more in between...
totally not your fault, if you thought you couldn't trust him you would have been looking...but you didn't know so you couldn't look could you..
these ws who carry on for years and years are of a different breed of liar...quite good at it obviously....
this is not a burden for you to carry, the whole affair thing is always 100% the fault of the wayward....no matter what transpires, an affair would never fix it...
then the texting led to chit chat about what next steps he is taking in his career ... blah blah blah ...
then the texting turned toward OW ... shocker right ... it was all at my doing me asking the questions him trying not answer and me forcing the issue till he did ...
and surprise guess what I got hurt ... again ...
I asked him if they had marriage plans, moving in together, or was he hanging around when her boys there yet ???
he said no, no & no ... so good I guess, although part of me thinks he is lying bout the living together thing, not on a full time basis, but more than he claims ...
anyway it turned to then do you all date ??? like go to dinner or movies ect ...
he said no they stay in and watch movies and cook at her place ... because yes he said this ... he cannot afford to pay for them to go out ...
not that we are still married, I would be embarrassed(sp) if someone saw us out ect ... nope blamed it on not being able to pay for her slutty ass to have popcorn or steak
so when I asked ... yes it is still me doing all the asking and him trying to evade or just not answer and me still forcing the issue till I get what I want, which is to basically torture myself and make myself sad
anyway I asked what do they cook ... who does the cooking ??? he says they cook ... together
and they just cook normal stuff, like hamburgers ect ...
so basically like a real H & W family household ... just not her kids there ... YET !!
that hurt the worst and has been dragging me down for a day & a half now ...
that hurt worse than him saying he cooked for her or vice versa ... together implies intimacy and a real relationship ....
god I hate my life ...
I am also going to post this in double betrayal ... cause guess what ???????
the whore WAS a friend of mine/ours for the last 11+ years ... her BH and mine stbxwh were BFF's since the 7th grade ...
oh shit just read my profile if you want it is a long sick story that does not have a happy f-ing ending ...
I am so sorry I am not mad at anyone on here I am projecting ... sorry
god I hate my life ...
It sounds like he has moved on to this OW. You know what no contact means? I suggest you go ahead and tell your H "no more contact with you until you fall out of love with him..." Tell him you are now making the choice not to love him. Let him face the grief of losing you. and tell him to please respect your decision, do not try and call you until you let him know you are through this.. Then do your hardest to not see him, text him, call him, anything for a while. Take care of yourself. Do things you always wanted to do... a new job, trip, etc... It's up to you work to get through this... I so wish and pray for your peace.
Iwant... I was stating the red herring! I really think the pain depends on the person.
oh well... off to not think about this stuff until another day.
[This message edited by trynhard at 5:24 AM, January 13th (Wednesday)]
holding on is serving what purpose for you? what purpose will is serve to contact him?do you really believe in your head that his responses will change to what you really want to hear? sweetie i am so sorry that i don't believe that is going to happen for you....and yes it hurts like hell and back.....i know that pain all too well...but we cannot make them into who we believe they could be or should be or even would be if he wanted to be....and yes it all sucks a big giant moose head....
booger bear you need to let him go out of your heart and head....no contact, no contact, no contact...
do what tryn has suggested and love your life...start out by loving yourself....
Read this today and just had to share. Hope you read something in it that at least makes you feel a little better!
WISE OLD DONKEY
One day a farmer’s donkey fell down into a well. The animal cried piteously for hours as the farmer tried to figure out what to do. Finally, he decided the animal was old, and the well needed to be covered up anyway; it just wasn’t worth it to retrieve the donkey.
He invited all his neighbors to come over and help him. They all grabbed a shovel and began to shovel dirt into the well. At first, the donkey realized what was happening and cried horribly. Then, to everyone’s amazement he quieted down.
A few shovel loads later, the farmer finally looked down the well. He was astonished at what he saw. With each shovel of dirt that hit his back, the donkey was doing something amazing. He would shake it off and take a step up.
As the farmer’s neighbors continued to shovel dirt on top of the animal, he would shake it off and take a step up. Pretty soon, everyone was amazed as the donkey stepped up over the edge of the well and happily trotted off!
Life is going to shovel dirt on you, all kinds of dirt. The trick to getting out of the well is to shake it off and take a step up. Each of our troubles is a steppingstone. We can get out of the deepest wells just by not stopping, never giving up! Shake it off and take a step up.
Remember the five simple rules to be happy:
1. Free your heart from hatred - Forgive.
2. Free your mind from worries - Most never happens.
3. Live simply and appreciate what you have.
4. Give more.
5. Expect less from people but more from God
Be back later tonite I hope.
Sure wonder and worry about everyone, especially the oldies. Where is everyone? Hope you are hanging in there!
P.S. "Breathing" extra hard on you IWAM!!
I am woman, hear me ROAR!!
What you accept, you teach!
Me 53, WS 54
Reconciled for life!
DD 24, DS 27
In one way, I don't really feel like I *know* my whole story because there are still so many questions I need/want to ask my WH. I got some information and then just didn't want to ask anymore. I decided I didn't want to know more if I was going to D -- and I didn't know if I was going to D. But yesterday I decided to give my M a real try to heal so I'll be asking him more questions tomorrow. I've got a babysitter so we can go out to talk; it's hard with the kids all over us here at home.
Ok -- back to they story. WH and OW have been having an affair since they were in college about 20 years ago. They graduated, lost touch for a little while, then got back together the weekend before she got married. She got married anyway. I'm not sure if or how often they were seeing each other after that, but at any rate, she was married for a few years, he was dating other people, maybe her too, I'm not sure. Like I said, there are still questions to ask.
So, WH and I met at work. I was married, but my XH became very mentally ill when his father unexpectedly died. He was mis-diagnosed with depression but was really bipolar, though he did not know until years after we D. He spent crazy amounts of $, stopped working, etc. and eventually got violent and beat me up. That's when I knew I just couldn't help him and it wasn't safe for us to be together anymore.
So, I moved out and the place I moved to was near to WH. He started flirting with me (he had moved to another job) and we started dating (coincidentally the weekend OW had her first child.) I was still M but legally separated, did not know where my XH was living and was NC with him and had a divorce attorney, so I didn't really think much about dating being a bad idea.
About 8 months into my relationship with WH I got pregnant and after much debate we decided to keep the baby and buy a house together. That was his idea. I had originally suggested adoption (I was 25 and had just been accepted to law school) but he's older and wanted to keep the baby and raise him alone if need be, so I agreed to give parenting a try. It was hard for me the first 2 1/2 years; I didn't take to being a Mom so well emotionally, but I still did a good job.
The first time I met OW was when my DS was 4 1/2 months old. She came with her second child to a party we had (her boy is about 3 mos younger) He posed her as an old friend from college and she was there with her whole family.
WH and I got married about 2 months later.
WH and OW kept getting the families together as friends. Having 2 kids about the same age was a great excuse and cover and her DS and mine were best friends. I *thought* OW and I became friends too. The kids played sports together, had playdates, we occasionally went out as couples without them.
When our DS was 3 I miscarried and had post-partum psychosis. I needed about 6 mos. of intensive psychiatric treatment to get better, and now take bipolar mediation for life. But I did get better. She had just had her third child.
We took vactions with them, etc. When I finally had our second child he wound up in the hospital very ill and she took our older boy to her house so we could be at the hospital with the baby. Our families were so enmeshed. Our nanny was her nanny's sister; it was just nuts.
Anyway, WH and I have had more than our share of heartache. We've lost 4 babies, have had several close relatives die, etc. There has always been something to blame for some of the stress in our lives.
But, things have calmed down and there was still something off I just couldn't put a finger on. Then, this summer I opened my cell phone bill and found 1200 texts from my WH to his ex-girlfriend from HS, who has apparently moved back to the area. We had a big fight about that and I started watching him about his BS. (Yes, I think she's OW2 though WH has not admitted it yet.) He started drinking heavily, was absent, coming home smelling freshly showered, etc. It was pretty clear something was up so I got snoopy and while I was looking for proof on OW2 I found naked pictures of and sexy texts to OW1 on his cell phone.
Since I know OW1 I knew she'd cave if I confronted her, and she did. I confronted WH first, but he was still giving BS excuses. It was only when OW1 sold him out that we finally got it into the open.
I would have found it if I'd looked. I never thought to look at his cell phone, or the computer cookies, or his bank statements, etc. It's all there. Charges for hotels on days he's supposed to be at work, etc.
But, they had their routine down long before we met. So I don't feel stupid, and I picked up on OW2 almost immediately, so I know I'm not stupid.
DDay (officialy when OW1 caved) was Dec. 1.
Where are we now? I'd say in half-assed sort-of R that is about to turn ugly (or maybe cold is a better word?) if he doesn't get his head out of his ass. I'll post more on that some other time. I'm surprised I still love my WH and that I have decided that I think I'm capable of a true R. I didn't really know until yesterday -- but I had that epiphany that yes, it's possible. Not easy, but possible. But I'm still perfectly willing to D. There is NO WAY I'm going to live like this, it's bullshit. I'm so glad I know what the *real* problem in our relationship has been. I was almost ready to D anyway before I figured it out. Now, I think with bringing this into the light there is a real chance to fix my M and even if it can't be done, I will always know that I did my best and knew what it was that really needed to be fixed.
And by the way, you are not stupid for not figuring out the OW#1. How on earth could you have? I bet you have been analysing every memory looking for clues but unless you are really looking, its v hard to detect. So quit beating yourself up, Ok?
I guess you must have 2X4'd yourself every which way already, so I am going to give you a big hug instead.
Take that night as your turning point - I will echo the others here - where you start to get to know and love and cherish and nurture the most important person you know. YOU.
Maintaining NC is hard, but you can do it. Everytime you feel yourself weaken, post here. Get lost in a book. Go for a walk. Call a chatty friend. Dont hurt yourself anymore, my friend.
Way to go with DD!!
Seeing OW's face everywhere..yikes. Lets gather up all our Tribe mojo and channel some of Dipstick's birds to go "mark" all those pics.
I am sorry if my words brought you down. I havent been in the best of places emotionally recently and I guess that reflects in my posts.
Back at ye.
Why dont you just ask H what he was thinking at the wedding?
Have you ever asked yourself what you would want/need him to do to get back into your heart again? Or has that door closed forever?
[This message edited by Lost Heart2 at 1:09 PM, January 13th (Wednesday)]
Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.
Please don't beat yourself up anymore!
m334455, ugh. I am so sorry for the pain and betrayal you have been through. I KNOW people cheat but it's still so challenging for me to understand how someone could marry while carrying on with another person. I just can not wrap my head around that behavior. I know it happens, but I truly can not fathom how anyone can do it!
LH2, I hope you have better times soon!
Greetings to everyone else!
it's still so challenging for me to understand how someone could marry while carrying on with another person. I just can not wrap my head around that behavior.
Exactly. The first thing I asked him was why they didn't just marry each other?! Ok, maybe the second thing. The FIRST thing I asked him was "What have I EVER done to you other than love you and care for you and bear your beautiful children?"
No need to be sorry about what you wrote. I just thought it was a pretty complete statement, so I couldn't think of much to add. How we feel should reflect in our posts. It helps to get it out. We can't clown around all the time.
That is a good idea about getting the birds to mark those pics for tryn. I washed the truck today and I think I was hit by flying cows and birds! What a mess. So we need to send birds and cows on this mission.
We're doing great overall, but still have some REALLY bad days. Wrote the following poem during one of those days...
It skulked along the shadow’s edge
For twenty-two-plus years.
Now and then I’d catch a glimpse
That sharpened all my fears.
Eventually there came a time
It could no longer hide.
It tore a hole into my heart
And nestled there inside.
The pain was unlike all I’d known,
Near’ more than I could bear.
Then it settled down to sleep
As if it didn’t care.
And so it dwells within me now;
It’s resting for awhile,
But ever watchful I must be,
For I know of its guile.
It only takes a sleight of mind
To wake the hungry beast,
And now forever raw, my heart
Provides a ready feast.
I've just accepted that it is now a part of me, and keep in mind that it is a part of him as well (that's a little more difficult).
Hope 2010 has started out well for everyone.
Hugs and prayers for all!
WS-59: LTA (22+ years)
MOW-54: H's old girlfriend
D-day 08/11/08 (3 days before 25th anniversary)
Working hard on R
I call this... A Cheater's Disposition
It just happened...
time and time again.
m334455... thanks for sharing your story. It is touching me. I just hope you H can somehow find a way to overcome his Disposition... I wrote this for you the other day but took it off.. The past month or so I have given hours and hours of thought to a person having a Cheater's Disposition... It is Satan. I think, why take a chance being a person to break a commandment? Stuck in lust perhaps. My poem is in the comments..
I have such a sweet wife... good to me in so many ways. Why betray your best friend, the one you made a commitment to God? My wife said, "It just happened." But it didn't. It is/was in her disposition. I know her enough to say she can change and has changed.
Lovinlife.. That was a good story.. so I will quit thinking about infidelity for now.
PS... I would love to see a Dip poem! oh heck everyone write one...
[This message edited by trynhard at 7:12 PM, January 13th (Wednesday)]
C’était le fin de l’amour,
Le fin de moi.
Mon cœur est crevé.
Je suis si triste.
L’homme que j’aimais est mort.
Il y a un autre qui l’a remplacé.
J’espère que je pourrai l’aimer un jour.
Mais je ne sais pas.
Peut-être je ne saurai jamais.
started out feeling really good about my H, about reconciliation etc.
I had a work thing today at a different site. Needed help setting up for a presntation and no one could help me... except my FWH!
We really bonded over this . He helped me over the weekend and then early this morning we drove in two cars to the location so he could help me set up, carry materials etc.Then he drove to his job.
It was a little triggery as we had to drive right past his old work place (where the skanky OW still works)...but
I did ok..drove past in the morning without a more than a twinge and fought off the urge to drive through the parking lot and stalk her on the way home! LOL
well...here I am feeling all warm and fuzzy about our weekend plans and.... I need to use his computer for something.
I haven't snooped for months...but for some reason decided to check history and found two visits to porn sites in the last 2 weeks!
Ironically, this was what I found on the computer 3 yrs ago December and then as I started monitoring how often he would go on porn... I stumbled upon the emails from the OW...and then the whole story unraveled!
so..stumbling on porn triggered me big time.
I struggled for an hour or so about what to do.
Am I being too ridiculous?
I know men look.
But, considering he had a 5 yr long pornographic affair with the skank... I thought I had made myself clear....
no more porn in my house ever!
For him...its a gateway drug.
and for me... I can't handle the thought that he needs more outside stimulation.....
I wrestled with this..should I talk about it tonight? or ruin the weekend for myself? should I get a keylogger and start surveillance to help me feel safe?
I decided to talk to him about it and make it clear that it is not ok with me.
And... I was planning on getting a keylogger to monitor and see if he complies with my wishes..etc.
That was my plan....
so, what happened? he claims that he has not gone on a porn site in 3 yrs (since d-day).
He started yelling and carrying on about how I will never get over this , that I don't trust him, that he is transparent about everything...that I am destroying any chance of our marriage surviving..that I have to ket this go...
so.. I asked him.. how did it get there? it said it was in the last 2 weeks...
my son was home for Xmas...
I asked my husband if I should call my son to ask if it was him?
My husband said that I can do whatever but it was not him! This was all said with a lot of yelling , stomping feet and drama... I was calm (took a Xanax before the confrontation). He kept pointing out how I had attacked him with this info.and how could I not trust him?
I looked at him and asked.... I will never trust you 100% ever again...
I will always feel the need to double check to make sure...
like I do with the lock on the door...
he just got stuck on why would I torture him and me by checking up on him at all? if I knew how upsetting this would all be...
If it were me, I most certainly would call my son and ask him. I would tell him that I need him to be completely honest with me and that the issue isn't about the porn. It's about taking responsibility for one's actions and that I needed him to be honest.
I am concerned that your H blew up at you. When I have been concerned about something that triggered me, my H might have been a little exasperated, but moreso at himself for putting me in the position to feel uneasy. In every case in the last couple of years, he has acted in ways that made me feel relieved and safe. Yelling at you certainly did not make you feel relieved or safe.
When I read your post, all I could think was the old adage, "The best defense is a good offense." If he were truly innocent and REMORSEFUL, why yell? Why not just explain that perhaps your son was looking at porn and that he is sorry you were feeling uneasy and that his behavior caused you to react negatively.
Blah on him!
love that story and love the breeze even more...ty..
m334455: thank you for sharing, i know how hard that must have been , to put it all down in writing..makes it even more real, and it already felt too real i am sure..
i too have a ws who had his ow firmly in place before he ever met me, and there she stayed for 30 years, til d-day...she is still there in the deep recesses of his mind and his heart...and she most certainly is always there in my mind...i know that horrid wretched feeling of never having a before...everytime i read one of those affair books and it tells you to look at before it would make me so damned angry because i could not do that...so now what i would yell at the book i just threw across the room...now what....
you have been through so much pain, starting with your first husband...you will get through this mess...it will take time ( i hate that word "time") and it will take some work on your part...you will be working for you to put you back together again, and you can do this...one step at a time....
you still have a lot to deal with, so you really do need to take a step back, evaluate and then proceed one step at a time...
lh2: its good to see you posting...
hey dip: i told my dd today about the bird messenger thing and that you posted about your own message so to speak...she was hysterical, as was i...
kalamity: nice poem...and i am sorry that you had some bad days but so so happy that you seem to be having way more good days...so yay...
tryn: love that picture...as for me writing a poem...not my thing at all..i hate poetry, always did...but i would love to read a poem by dip too....
fairyfriend: now i could honestly say that i did not get your poem, and i know that you will not take offense...and if you do take offense...well ...show off...
you are in a tough position, because your son may lie to you too...but i agree that your husband doth protest to loud...it looks as though he may be telling a lie...i am so sorry....i can't believe i am going to say this but i really hope it was your son...and i think you do too...
and your ws needs to know that this is a process that has no time limit, it takes as long as it takes and he needs to do his part until...and that is it....his entire reaction to you is so uncalled for...sounds like a fear based argument....take it one step at a time...
and to the rest of this very very quiet tribe...i hope you are all finding peace...i hope we all find peace...
I was not on the roller coaster, I could see clearly as the fog was gone today for once ... and on the 180 AGAIN full steam ahead ...
wish these new normal days would be forever ... I keep dreading the next roller coaster ride ... wish I had warnings for them, guess that would defeat the name roller coaster lol ...
and they are not good normal or bad they are what I like to call functional ... lol whatever that means ...
hope you all have a great day as I am about to sleep now ... to hard for me to function in the day yet, so I have become a vampire for at least another 3wks then I have school, so I have to be human again ...