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User Topic: Long Term Affair Thread X V I
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:48 AM, December 8th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for all the comments on my Art.. I sometimes can chuckle about them now...

Wife is concerned I cannot move forward by visiting SI... I told her, "my actions speak for themselves."

Reality is that I have come to believe that a wayward will never feel the pain unless it has been done to them. My friend cheated on his wife... when his A wife cheated on him... he understood... yet said he deserved what he got.

oh well have a nice day.. peace.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:46 AM, December 8th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fairyfriend:

will also say that just because you read something in a book most emphatically does NOT make it so
!

i know this, its not my rational mind that think these thoughts but my emotional one, the one that knows he loved her enough, and never me enough...and yes he did love her...and i believe he still does, i think he just put her in a box because he cannot handle it now.....

When I confronted my H with the A, he was literally shocked that it had gone on for so long. He really had no idea

he knew how long it was going on, and had no intention of ever ending it.....and its funny in such a sad way, he had 2 lta's simultaneously, and the 12 year one he really had no idea the length of time til he gave it some thought, the first one though, he knew immediately upon my discovery of the the email exactly how long she was in the picture...which shows just how important she was....he ALWAYS made love to her and had SEX with me...and for the past 17 years or so i was his "hole"...the substitute...

he and i had a small caht last nite, me actually doing most of the talking...it started merely because he said he really loved me...with that i informed him that no he really doesn't, love is a verb, and all his actions especially since d-day, his lack of meeting any of my requests demonsrtate perfectly what he feels for me....love is a verb...and there is no action backing up that word...so for him to me it is just a word....

I

didn't even have to ask for his help. He offered it willingly. In years past, it simply would not have occurred to him to offer his help.

Sad, huh?

try a new perspective on this: not sad for the present, not sad for the future, not even sad upon reflection, because now you can appreciate the changes he has made for you and for your marriage...

perspective has power, power to change so many aspects, emotions and life.....

you may need/want to talk to your IC about your feelings.

i do....

lh2:

I think you should do something really special for your H's bday...something for YOU!
A nice bracelet? A pamper treat?

lovin:

So sad to hear your sad... I am around if you need to talk.

thank you for the offer....

i am not sad all the time...its that darned rollercoaster, only its kind of been a minute by minute thing..

and thankfully most times i can shake it within a reasonable time period...there are just so many of those damned periods because of all those damned triggers.....

seems like damned is my word of the hour

I am worried about my Dad, he is 90, and just plain tired of being here... just wants to join my Mom-and the holidays really depress him.

now thats a tough one, its both a sad sich and an understandable one...he misses her, they must have loved each other tremendously and that is way cool....

tryn:

Wife is concerned I cannot move forward by visiting SI... I told her, "my actions speak for themselves."

2 questions for you

1. does she read what you write? you write so much positive on your marriage and your journey, you have such a loving take on your sich, its loving and its very realistic because its not covered in all hearts and candy...you are "actively" loving her, and you have a plan should she not reciprocate...

2. what is she afraid of?..people tend to put down what they fear or what they do not understand...so which is it for her....

this one would be a productive one for her to answer?..it might help give her some insight into her own issues...

Reality is that I have come to believe that a wayward will never feel the pain unless it has been done to them.

no, they really will never feel the same depth of pain, because when we find out we had that innocent trusting love, we are not jaded prior, we are not even remotely thinking about infidelity on any spectrum...the ws was always thinking about it on some level, they have no innocence on the matter...they will be hurt but not nearly on any level close to what the initial infidelity does....payback is a bitch but its not the same....


as always
((((hugs to all))))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 10:45 AM, December 8th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

iwantamiracle.. you hit that one...
people tend to put down what they fear or what they do not understand
This site I have protected for myself... she knows I visit a site like this.. sometimes she can see I close the page when she walks in the room... Thus her fear!

And you know of course I write special things for her... I don't show her the "hurtful feelings" stuff... no postive comes with rubbing her nose in it...

This is my favorite...

My wife's nickname is "T"

my tea
A very special flavor
Everybody seems to love it.
Yes.. It’s tea
Incredible aesthetic appeal
A high, an energy, to soothe
Awakening, but blinding it can be.
Careful now…it’s a special blend.
This tea is best made with
Impurity free water, and filtered…
it’s always been sweet.
Today, I am very possessive of my tea
It will not let it boil over
Steamed only with my personal care.
My tea to be finer…
Yes, a good tea it is.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 12:58 PM, December 8th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just saying I’m here and lurking a little. FWH is away again.

Hi weepy, sounds like no change for you. If anything, moving further apart now that you have given up trying. It has to be a two-way street and your H just isn’t up to the task. Something will give at some point and I reckon it will be you. I hope you can secure a decent job soon, what he thinks about it really doesn’t count. It’s for you, not him. as you say, get him off your back. Unfortunately there is nothing you can do about his stupid lying. Try not to let him get to you.

However, he also said he wants to try really hard to find that "spark" he had for me in our youth.
It doesn’t happen like that. Feelings develop and mature. That “spark” is the initial attraction of what gets you together in the first place. You have to make time for each other, make yourselves look attractive for each other, give compliments, show interest, encourage, invite. All those things you did for each other back then. It’s no good him saying he’s looking for the “spark”, he needs to look to himself and see what he’s doing wrong. He needs some plans in place for when he comes home.

i say tell him and be done with it,
I don’t know if he’s looked at her facebook. She’s had the same pic for a few weeks now. I wasn’t bothered about the Friendsreunited site as H’s email address was an old work one that was obsolete. I wrote to the administrators pretending to be him and got his profile deleted. I just think he should set his own boundaries and be able to do things without recourse to me all the time. Trouble is, he just doesn’t think. I’ll deal with it after the weekend (I’m away Fri til Mon).

Fairyfriend, they do manage to say the dumbest things. Sorry hon.

Lovin, it’s a hard time for your dad and quite understandable. I’m sure you’ll all be doing your best to help him enjoy it just a little. I’m down to my parents this weekend and will be returning full of guilt that I’m not having them and my IL’s up for Christmas with us for the third year running. The last time was 2006 – I got through with a lot of alcohol. I have 3 siblings, but somehow it’s too much effort – or something. It’s been assumed that I’m the one to do it all. I used to be good at it, doing the food and the house, getting presents and wrapping them all, seeing people. Now it doesn’t seem to hold any meaning and I just don’t want to even try. I have no reason to feel bad, but I do and it just makes it all worse. It would have helped if FWH had done something about getting away, it’s not as if I’ve suddenly decided I wanted to not be here. We talked about it around the time the boys left – that was 10wks ago.

It’s a hard time of year for most of us. Maybe more so for those Christmas memories have been tainted year on year. The pretence of it all and FWH sitting there so smug.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
fairyfriend
♀ Member
Member # 11208
Default  Posted: 3:48 PM, December 8th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

iwam, I am sorry your H is so immature, so self-centered, so full of entitlement that he saw nothing wrong with being involved with multiple women simultaneously. You deserve so much better than that.

I LOVE the idea of your getting yourself a bracelet. In fact, I think you should consider getting yourself a Trollbeads bracelet. That way, every time he pisses you off, you can go buy yourself a new bead for your bracelet to remind yourself of how phenomenal you truly are!

HUGE hugs. Take care of yourself.

ff


DDay 1--Feb 99
Crappy IC, false R--spring 1999
A ended around April, 2003
DDay 2--September 26, 2004
DDay 3--September 26, 2005 when I found out the REST of the truth
8/8/09--Doing very well due to hard work on my and H's part

Posts: 1607 | Registered: Jul 2006 | From: far north Chicago suburbs
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:37 PM, December 8th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tryn:

This site I have protected for myself... she knows I visit a site like this.. sometimes she can see I close the page when she walks in the room... Thus her fear!

have you asked her directly what it is that she does fear, maybe a revenge affair...if you are being secretive and she is obviously an insecure woman her mind will probably go to where she did go...to someone else...

tea btw is my all time favorite beverage, drink about 10 cups at least a day...mostly decaf...want to stay healthy...

its nice that you write for her, i see so many of the ways you "love" her, what are some of the ways she "loves" you...and you could skip the parts that have to do with sex, i really do not need to be reminded of what i really really want for xmas...

ukgirl:

I just think he should set his own boundaries and be able to do things without recourse to me all the time. Trouble is, he just doesn’t think.

yes he should set his own boundaries, but he apparantly doesn't know how...and seems incapable, and also doesn't seem to care to...

and no, most ws's don't think, if they did they wouldn't have gotten into the messes they got into in the first place...and men are wired differently most of the time...no offense tryn and dipstick....

i would just think getting it all out there is so much better then living with waiting for that damned shoe to drop...i never did do the limbo very well....i like knowing where i stand all the time, even unfortunately if i am standing in a sack of shit, which ironically i am....or we could take that a slight step further and say i am living with a sack of shit..

would have helped if FWH had done something about getting away, it’s not as if I’ve suddenly decided I wanted to not be here.

why wait for him, book a trip yourself, why not book a trip to go see your boys? take the initiative with your desires and implement them...and if doesn't like it...too bad....although he might actually like it, being taken care of...and that would indeed be a catch 22 for you...

if i remember correctly didn't he plan the last trip you two took..?


fairyfriend:

thankyou for the hugs, the well wishes and the advice on the gift...and yes i do deserve to have it all, and i will...someday i will have it all, i deserve it and i will go after it...but in the meantime i need to bide my time..at least i no longer have to bite my tongue, which can be quite sharp...

and when your husband is a total idiot, it makes the tongue even sharper and in constant practice...

as always

((((tribe))))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
fairyfriend
♀ Member
Member # 11208
Default  Posted: 10:54 PM, December 8th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Umm, I don't want to be rude, but when you wrote

i am living with a sack of shit

Did you forget to insert the word "USELESS" between "a" and "sack?"

Just wondering


DDay 1--Feb 99
Crappy IC, false R--spring 1999
A ended around April, 2003
DDay 2--September 26, 2004
DDay 3--September 26, 2005 when I found out the REST of the truth
8/8/09--Doing very well due to hard work on my and H's part

Posts: 1607 | Registered: Jul 2006 | From: far north Chicago suburbs
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:52 AM, December 9th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

iwantamiracle...
what it is that she does fear
I'm not going to have a revenge A... I'm sure that's what she may think.. She just asked me "what was that?" and I told her... and told her I wanted to keep it private because it is helping me.
OK here goes...
what are some of the ways she "loves" you...

- She often tells me she loves me
- She attended Retrouvaille to reconnect
- She writes loving things to me
- She cooks meals and makes me neat drinks, pours me glasses of wine... after work
- She sits and we just talk now.
- She will lay down next to me on the couch, cuddles in the morning before we wake and gets up.
- She brings me small gifts.. I love kettle corn.
- She makes sure I have the most up to date clothing.
- She reminds me of key dates to show other I do care
- She works to support our family.. (2 going in college by fall)
- She calls at least once during work hours.. most of the time about 2 times.
- She is a great caring nurse when I got sick.. nagged me to go to the Dr..
- She listens when I complain.
- She and I have the same faith... and believe.
- She overlooks my bad habits
- She does not tell me what to do when to do it… nag.
I’m sure there is more.

BTW.. As I don't view having just sex as true love. I think sex is a large leap above holding hands...it really is just one part of a marriage relationship. I do believe lust and all those feelings as the beginnings of love... Sex feelings are mostly emotions, physical feelings and I know brain related… like crying maybe? Sustaining those loving feelings of lust seems to come and go.. sex is only part of a love relationship… For me, my feelings have always been to spread sex to every good looking woman I see… to control that emotion must be something special. Some loud mouth A-hole on TV is saying, “Give Tiger a break” ALL Men cheat, I hope A-hole’s wife cheats on him! He falls in that category of ”not understanding” what it means to devote yourself to one person, marriage, God… I still wonder why I never cheated. I Just didn’t when I could have. Why? Maybe because I’m not one of those people that get stuck in “Lust Mode”.

I do believe people change. I’m pretty sure my wife is not the same person she was a couple years ago. I think the OM is getting a divorce. I’m mixed about trying to find out. In some way, I want my wife to be tempted again… because I would rather know now if my wife just is incapable of having a married relationship with me. I can then move on in my life… maybe get back to those Lion like, carefree, worry free, let it go, who cares, focus on living, total trusting, type feelings I once had… I have to really try hard to make myself think positive again. It is an everyday task.

Oh well, peace out…

I call this... Stuck in Slut

Some people are just stuck in lust, never to change, never to understand what true love is, never know a true relationship.... Just Another Romantic perhaps

[This message edited by trynhard at 7:56 AM, December 9th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
kalamity
♀ Member
Member # 21802
Default  Posted: 3:38 PM, December 9th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((LTA)))

Don't have much opportunity to get online anymore so there is just no way I can really catch up. Just glanced through at topics and wanted to share a few thoughts...

Facebook - H and I share a facebook account. MOW and her BH also share an account. Both have placed privacy filters and we will never be "friends." I do look them up now and again to see if there is a new profile photo, as I'm sure she does. I, too, was a little hesitant to tell H that I'd found them, but here's why I did...[Sometime's isn't it just fun to be juvenile?!] We decorate hugely for Halloween. In the window of the bedroom where they engaged in sexual activity I put "Ding Dong the witch is dead! Which old witch?..." followed by a copy of her FB profile picture. I had to tell him where I got the photo. And that leads me to the next topic:

How I feel about MOW. Does it show? Actually, I still waffle. We received a note of apology from her asking for our forgiveness. I doubt its sincerity. H says it is better for us if we believe she is sorry and has moved on with her life. He is probably right. I cannot imagine hating another person, but I think I come close sometimes.

My H was a good H (except for the affair thing). This is true. But what we have both come to understand is that he was a good H for himself - not for me. He wanted other people to see that he was a good H. It was just one more responsibility to add to all his other responsibilities (yes, he was quite the martyr). I truly believe his motivation has changed.

On the trust issue...I don't believe I will ever really trust him again. Trust has been replaced by a selfish indifference (as long as I'm getting what I want, what I don't know won't hurt me), and resigned preparedness (if I do find that it happens again, there will be no discussion - I'll be gone). If I continued to question and act out of suspicion, I'd drive myself nuts. Don't want to go there.

fairyfriend posted that her H said he wasn't used to all this thinking. Ditto for my H. Sometimes he calls for a day when he doesn't have to think. I try to give that to him once in awhile (only when we're together).

Now - a question. At what point is it detrimental to share your feelings? When we came home from a movie last night there was a light snow falling and our house with the Christmas decorations just looked very cool and H said "Aren't we lucky to be able to enjoy this?" My gut reaction was that I don't feel lucky at all. Lucky would be living in a two-bedroom trailer house with a husband who adored me and never cheated. I don't hide my feelings well, so he knew I was bothered. Eventually I had to tell him something, so this morning that's what I told him and asked him if he knew that I would trade everything we have for him to have been faithful. He said yes. We really are doing well, but once in awhile something like this comes up and when I tell him what I think and how I feel, it sets him back so far. That doesn't help us move forward at all. Everyone is right, the WS CANNOT understand what we go through if they haven't experienced it, so isn't there a point when telling him how what he did hurt me over and over again becomes a very negative thing?


When it feels like your life is falling apart, perhaps it is falling in place.

BS(me)-56
WS-59: LTA (22+ years)
MOW-54: H's old girlfriend
D-day 08/11/08 (3 days before 25th anniversary)
Working hard on R


Posts: 104 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Nebraska
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 4:07 PM, December 9th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

trynhard.

I abandoned you for a few days. Computer problems suck. Good on the art again.

I have always felt that a WS will never really feel the pain they have caused, even if it is done to them. What your friend said backs up what I feel. He said "he deserved what he got." I don't think many BSs would say that. I do think a WS that becomes a BS will most often think this way.

To me the WS turned BS, will understand the pain the BS felt, but they will never, ever truly be able to feel the breaking of the trust. The trust was already broken. I would guess that a RA is not really as effective a punishment as us BSs would like to believe because the original WS is just going to think that they got what they deserve.

miracle.

Men are wired different?? Some women even claim that men are pigs! Sadly, a lot of the time they are right.

Tribe.

I have lots of thoughts, but so little time. Hugs to all.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 6:57 PM, December 9th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The Tiger Woods story has been triggering me... the worst was actually at work...where a group of co-workers were discussing Tiger...and saying that his wife would be an idiot to take him back...
I just slipped away from the group... eager to get away from the discussion...only to be bombarded with the story everywhere...


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:52 PM, December 9th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fairyfreind:

i am sorry i have to correct you, pfm is not useless, he is great at making money and fixing the house....everything else though yes, he is useless ... ...all the things that matter most, unfortunately...


tryn:

did she do all those things before or after?

and for the om getting divorced, i probably would want to push the envelope...cut my losses asap, the only thing worse then staying in a bad relationship where you know its based on lies for lets say a year, is staying in that relationship for a year and a day...everyday that is added is another day lost in being healthy...

kalamity:

good to hear from you...

its good to see that you have learned to accept your relationship as it is and are prepared for whatever...you have not only seemed to accept is but found some happiness....yay for you...hopefully you happy days will not only outnumber the not so happy days but hopefully knock them out...it is possible....trust may never be freely given, but that is o.k....you both know where you stand....and more importantly you stopped going after more....you stopped analyzing everything, you realized that by doing that your only purpose would be to drive yourself nuts ....that was why i actually stopped all investigations...there just was no point, i found out enough, and he was never going to admit to them without my being in his face, and at that point there was no point...he either wants to do everything he can or he doesn't..and pfm made his choiced again and again, and he always chose his fears of truth over everything else...oh well...it is what it is...

Now - a question. At what point is it detrimental to share your feelings?

this should be never in a healthy relationship, and while your relationship seems to work for you it is not a true healthy relationship...

one partner should never be afraid to share any feelings whatsoever with the other partner...within reason people...telling your partner that he/she is really ugly is not a productive truth... ...anways...fear of talking to one another should not exist, if it exists you need to decide if fighting for it is worth it...just like your unending questions or investigating, will get what you truly seek, even if there is a chance that you will, i say go for it, maybe he will learn not to take it personally and take it more as a need on your behalf just for some reassurance...if you feel he is not capable, then will this sharing be productive, and can you learn to meet this need without him...and will you resent him for this...so you need to ask yourself some of those hard questions, and answer yourself honestly...why do you need to ask him whatever and what do you seek...and is he capable or do you need to do this for yourself..???

dipstick...yes i am sorry to burst your bubble but yes men are wired differently..

Some women even claim that men are pigs!

and on this i agree some men are pigs, but so are some women...lots of other women are pigs..

njgal:

yes the tiger story is getting uglier and uglier...he's the guy no one would have ever though this of, i am married to one of those ...no one ever suspected him, not even a freind who he had hit on many many moons ago....she just forgot what he had done and put it away, never giving it a second thought, he only tried once and that was it...at least with her...

the tiger story will stay big til the nect big story hits..the media is finicky like that, it moces on rather quickly if there are other stories...however if more shit keeps coming out then its merely a dog with a bone,,,and until that bone is chewed up it will continue to exist..

as always
(((tribe)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 5:45 AM, December 10th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

njgal480... Those people at work have no idea what they are talking about. They talk high and mighty until they are face with the choice. I said same before I was faced with this… In fact, my wife thought 100% divorce was coming after dday. My wife didn’t ever think I could forgive. But guess what, I can forgive. How about this comment to them. I wouldn't every wear or buy a damn thing with Tiger Woods name on it... That says.. I'm a cheater! He's a pig. Let's see the way he handles this.. (Andre Agassi's book.. now he's changed and has it right today!) People can change.

I was reading about what Happy People do.. I like this one… but the all have friends and family.. Interaction with people!

The following are my 5 secret qualities of happy people, in no particular order:

1) Absence of Toxic Shame: In the book, "Healing the Shame That Binds You," John Bradshaw describes the difference between healthy vs toxic shame in that, "Healthy shame is an emotion which signals us about our limits...and keeps us grounded," where "Toxic shame is experienced as the all-pervasive sense that I am flawed and defective as a human being." Truly happy people have a strong sense of themselves and their value, in other words, an absence of toxic shame. This usually comes from a nurturing, loving and supportive experience in their families of origin. There are many reasons why people struggle with toxic shame. I find it often lies at the core of some depression, anxiety and perfectionism.

2) Absence of Resentment: Really happy people seem to be more successful at forgiveness. In addition, they often haven't personalized the experience to the degree that others do. When you are good at letting things go - you don't drag the burden of resentment around with you. Those who hold onto anger or grudges towards others for long periods of time can experience internal emotional distress that leads to bitterness, frustration and often health problems. They can also struggle with depression and excessive anger.

3) Living their Passion: People who are doing work that is satisfying to them, whether they simply enjoy showing up every day - or is more rewarding on a deeper level - tend to be happier. The same applies to those who have found a hobby or cause that brings them joy, whether it's associated with work or not. Those who dislike their jobs and truly hate getting up every day to go to work tend to have an underlying baseline of life dissatisfaction that can lead to unhappiness. This is particularly true if they're not engaging in something outside of work that touches that energizing place inside of them - which could atleast partially offset the impact of their unrewarding job.

4) Dreams for future: Those who have hopes, plans and excitement for the future are typically happier. They believe they can carry out their dreams - and can actually visualize them coming true. People who struggle with imagining what their futures might hold often don't really believe that good things could actually happen for them. It's possible their past or present have been so dismal that they're unable to project positive things for the future. This is a very common belief of those struggling with depression. They may believe, "I can't," or "I don't deserve."

5) Connections to People: Happy people usually are connected to other people by supportive and loving relationships, no matter whether a few or many. There could be an argument that there are exceptions to this, but by and large, people need other people. From the time we are born, we seek to form attachments to our primary caregivers. Depending on the quality of these attachments, we will usually seek to form friendships and then - intimate partnerships. I've found that many unhappy people feel disconnected in some way to others - which can be very painful. Sometimes they are afraid to connect and other times their behavior is disconnecting. Regardless, for those who believe they need other people - and feel alone - a deep sense of unhappiness is common.

Iwantamiricle...

did she do all those things before or after?
Mostly not! Lol… OM getting D? I figure, if she wants to be with him… I cannot control that.. Let’s see.. He is a multi millionaire (ego boost - I don't do too bad thought).. But! A drunk, A cheater, A liar, Angry Fits, Big gambler yet cheap to his employees…. Hu,mmm… His wife should D him… He is incapable of having a health relationship.. unless he changes after this. Maybe he can, but I would bet on it. Unless he gets help with his alcoholism, No chance IMO. Oh well, if the other shoe drops.. It's gonna be fun.

Kalamity… That apology is a way for her to clear her mind to be Absence of Toxic Shame.. For us… how can we be Absence of Resentment?

UKgirl... hang tough!

Hey all .. Let's make that first spark! never know what might happen from there

Oh well… off to a romantic weekend in the mountains.. I'm making a choice to be one super great person this weekend.. give give give expecting nothing in return! Cya Monday..

Peace all..

[This message edited by trynhard at 6:05 AM, December 10th (Thursday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
lostsuol
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Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 9:13 PM, December 10th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

yes the tiger story is getting uglier and uglier...he's the guy no one would have ever though this of, i am married to one of those...no one ever suspected him,

Yes, my FWH also. Nobody would think this of him either. His business reputation is not marred by anything. Some of his staff may know or suspect but I have not seen any sign of disrespect there. Yearly open house is this Saturday... I'll smile and be the corporate wife. Thank goodness OW (seasonal) won't be there.

Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
iwantamiracle
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Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 7:06 AM, December 11th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hey tribe,

well yesterday was pfm's birthday...2 of my kids bought him cards, the last one made him a card, a card that made you smile and cry at the same time...so he did...he was all happy with the gift i picked up for him from the kids, the keurig coffee maker...bad me, i did tell him afterwards that the gift was just as much for the kids...it was something i had been thinking about purchasing for a while now...originally when we redid the kitchen i was planning on getting it, but then we recieved a mini coffeepot that did the same thing so we lived with that mini one til now, 2 years later....anyways i knew i burst his bubble...and i didn't care...i knew i needed to do the right thing for my kids and i did, he could know how much i resented having to do so....but its a resentment i know will not last....thankfully...i know feelings of resentment are completely non-productive and toxic to me...so this i know i will change, for now though i am hating him beyond reason, actually its really not beyond reason, the reasons are quite good and clear... ...anyways i hate him super big time, and during this triggerful month the hate is enormous as is the hurt...much easier to live at the moment hating him rather then feeling the pain of that hurt...i also get alot of shit done out of fustration so i guess its productive hate... ...gosh i am a ramblin mess this morn... ...ironically though i feel o.k....there are parts of this upcomming holiday i am actually looking forward to....this coming week is a really rough one emotionally, its the week he spent with the last ow...everyday it was her in some form and the other 2 also...he had thebusiest week of his life, its also the week that i believe he still has not given the full truth...this 1 week had more holes then his 30 year affair and his 12 year affair combined....

o.,k. end of this ramble...now time for a question:

why are the details so hard for them to give, so hard for us to accept when we don't get them...and those details are so easy, those details in the grand scheme really don't matter, once you know the basic truths, the hurful truths like the fact that he loved this woman enough....you know how long, you know the feelings that were involved, you know most of the who's....doest the rest really matter if there is no reconcilliation...i think the fact that i know that i will never get it all is one of the biggest factors in deciding that i didn't want to reconcile with this man...and i already know the answers to those rhetorical questions....just feel the need to get them out...wow, i know i don't need those answers to get on with my life without him, i know enough to know what i don't want...i need to accept that...i need to accept that...

ok...here's a question anyone can help me with...how does one reconcile with themselves....how does one learn to accept that which you cannot change...why do so many of us still try to change it....what stops us from just saying, actually doing it....really letting go of all that stuff, it is such a waste of energy...there are much better things to be felt out there....harboring all this shit is just smelly business... pardon the pun....

sorry dipstick i couldn't help myself, i needed to ramble away...i will step away from the keyboard now....

((((tribe))))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
old dipstick
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Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 11:12 AM, December 11th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

miracle.

Why are the details so important? Even if you do not plan to R. Here is a goofy theory for you.

I think it is sort of like reading a mystery book with 20 chapters, and when you get chapter 18, it is not there. Somebody cut out the last chapters! Sure you have all this information. You can draw conclusions, but you do not know the real conclusion.

What if that book was the only book that existed? Suppose your WS had read this book before the pages were missing. You ask WS to tell you how the book ended. WS says I can't remember or I can't handle talking about it. So now you think you will never know the ending. It will always be a unsolved mystery. That tends to piss some people off. It does me and it seems to bother you too.

Your last question about how to quit harboring all this shit. Well I suppose we could follow the WS handbook and "Just get over it!!" Wouldn't that be nice. I guess for some temporary relief, a distraction might be in order. Cleaning out the closet might help.

I know what you mean about this month sucking. The colder, shorter days and the holiday stress are bad enough. As always having to deal with the A related stuff just adds so much more.

njgal.

I understand how you feel. I have heard so many people say what they would do they were in the BS situation. Of course they really have no idea how they would act. After my Dday #1, I said to my self that I would leave if this happened again. Well it happened but I am still here.

Since my Ddays are so long ago, I have experienced the triggering from the celebrity A related news coverage for years. This Tiger story will slowly fade away and at times resurface. It is on its own rollercoaster just like we are. I wish I could say that there will be no more stories like this one but you know that it will happen again. Perhaps the next one will not bother you as bad.

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
trynhard
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Default  Posted: 9:41 AM, December 14th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey iwantamiracle
how does one reconcile with themselves....how does one learn to accept that which you cannot change...why do so many of us still try to change it....what stops us from just saying, actually doing it....really letting go of all that stuff, it is such a waste of energy...there are much better things to be felt out there....harboring all this shit is just smelly business

Here is what I think… It is a battle with our brains. It begins with a very conscious choice. Then you make a plan and then execute. For me, I still battle everyday. I made a choice to reconcile. So I battle many things.. everyday I pass that office she worked at, a leather couch the F’d on, the Staybridge Hotel and all those Hotels right in that area I pass while heading on the interstate I travel. I try to force myself to think about something else. I try to think about the good and not bad. I took medicines to help my chemicals in my brain work for me. You have to talk positive and do positive things. You have to pray. Learning is from repetition. As you play over and over in your mind the tragic event, it becomes more emotionally dull… All this has helped me get some happiness back.

If you chose not to reconcile, I think a couple of things… First, you need to be content with being by yourself if you do not choose to have a partner in life. This is why I think you hurt so much iwantamiracle. I personally think you will never be healthy without a partner. You sound like to me you need a good loving man... to go along with your family. I think once you make a choice to leave your husband and be with someone else, it is only a matter of time the brain chemicals start to flow and you become obsessed with finding and meeting that new person. You will always have your kids. You may even get to love new kids if the man you meet has kids... I come from a divorced parents. I love my step mother, step-father, step-brothers and sister. They all have brought value to my life.

I heard on TV this week during the Tiger debates some expert say only 35% of married couples after infidelity is discovered make a choice to reconcile. Who know if this is true or not, but that didn’t sound too good. I would wonder how many of those make it? I know this, 100% of every divorced couple I meet are happy when they divorce. My friends that are divorced say after the document is signed a huge burst of emotions are lifted. They all go on to find other people. Some have found good people, some not. All continue have some sort of relationship issues…. Be them large or small. I know people that are stuck in lust… relationship after relationship they cheat. It’s because they are looking for something they will never find.

For me, I am 100% sure I will stop obsessing or thinking about my wife’s infidelity if I move on. It’s because I will be totally focused on find the next piece of ass or mate… Heck, I think it would be so fun and romantic...

I quit taking my AD’s last Thursday. Even after an OK weekend.. Colt winning too, it is amazing that yesterday on my flight home how sad, depressed, unhappy, revisiting I felt. If my wife would just have some lust feeling and initiate more… would that get me out of my “lost ego” feelings? It is amazing how you get that knocked out of you. I come home last night to see more Tiger crap, to see OM’s TV commercial on the local channel. It drove me to react.. to only lie to my wife about what I was feeling…. I am too afraid she will give me the... “you will never get over it comments" at the same time remembering what love is... love "keeps no record of wrongs"...
I so feel infidelity should be against the law. It’s too bad Hollywood has made everyone in America’s values lowered to it being not that bad to do this… until it happens and you feel what you feel.... yet the evilness of infinity’s damages go back thousands of years as written by Moses…

Ok now my turn… I feel I have an obligation to let the OMW #1 (dates back to 1987) know about my wife A if they are even still M. I know his name but not correct spelling or where he is… But I feel his wife needs to know! Not out of revenge but out of kindness for her to know who she married. I hate it… I hate having to ask my wife where this guy graduated HS. I'm going to have to have more Info to find this A hole. I fear it may set back our R. What do you fine folks think?

Peace

[This message edited by trynhard at 11:28 AM, December 14th (Monday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
UKgirl
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Default  Posted: 4:47 AM, December 15th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

At what point is it detrimental to share your feelings?
If you are having a reactive thought that is simply negative when a discussion will leave nothing but guilt on his part and a void between you, I’d say let it go. I have so many thoughts that if they left my mouth would only serve to kill us by a thousand cuts. I could say something every time we have a conversation about anything, but I don’t. If he is being particularly insensitive, I tell him. If I am having a hard day, I tell him. If something triggers me badly, I tell him. They are things he can do something about and it can be positive. It’s treading the line between the two. I don’t want to throw the affair in his face all the time, but it is something I live with everyday. And he should know that much at least.

if i remember correctly didn't he plan the last trip you two took..?
Yes, he did – in the end. Today he is booking for us to go to Ireland for the Xmas period. I wanted him to do the holiday for the two of us simply because it had always been down to me. I realised that after dday. He did book a short break soon after dday – I was falling apart and the NC letter hadn’t been sent, although he had stopped responding to her. He was in KISA mode, so that made it easy. This year I wanted him to do it because he managed those fuckfest sojourns with her a couple of times a year, which were far more complicated than having a holiday with me. Initially I wanted to see the boys for Xmas, but the plane flights to NZ are almost triple the cost for the rest of the year. So then I suggested some unusual places – Istanbul, Dubai, Marrakesh, then cities: Prague, Seville, Paris. Finally, how about London. I made it clear I did NOT want to be at home.

everyday it was her in some form and the other 2 also...he had thebusiest week of his life, its also the week that i believe he still has not given the full truth...this 1 week had more holes then his 30 year affair and his 12 year affair combined....
why are the details so hard for them to give, so hard for us to accept when we don't get them...and those details are so easy, those details in the grand scheme really don't matter,
It’s truly mind numbing how they can organise such a complicated double life and I think (just sayin’ for my FWH) that some periods were so hectic and changing moment by moment that they cant remember. The RAM has gone into overload and things are being lived without being consigned to long term memory. I never got all of the big things and some of the small things I could have done without knowing.

and told her I wanted to keep it private because it is helping me.
Tryn’, that’s how I feel too. FWH doesn’t come here, I think he finds the WS bashing too much. But heck, I’m here because of him so he can’t complain. Here I can say what I like and receive advice that I wouldn’t get if things were just going around in my head. And I too wonder if my H could resist another affair, or resist MOW if she wanted a shoulder to cry on. It’s easier to just not give him that 100% trust. He has maybe 80%. If he had thrown everything on the table in those first few months, if he had gone immediately NC and dealt with her, if he had sought advice and listened, then things might have been different. We might be one of those couples who, like you, can reconnect and overcome this betrayal. It’s good to read that things can turn around.

I heard on TV this week during the Tiger debates some expert say only 35% of married couples after infidelity is discovered make a choice to reconcile.
And the LTA is the most unlikely to reconcile. We are the few, I guess. Not sure what that makes us, some say amazingly strong and others say pathetic and weak. But the choice is ours. So “statistics” don’t really apply.

Ok now my turn… I feel I have an obligation to let the OMW #1 (dates back to 1987) know about my wife A if they are even still M. I know his name but not correct spelling or where he is… But I feel his wife needs to know! Not out of revenge but out of kindness for her to know who she married. I hate it… I hate having to ask my wife where this guy graduated HS. I'm going to have to have more Info to find this A hole. I fear it may set back our R. What do you fine folks think?
As you may know, I told MOW’s BH 17mths after dday. By letter. One page, short and to the point, containing the bare bones and leaving my mobile number for contact. I said it was only fair to bring in the last member of the quartet and that I would feel doubly betrayed if the tables were turned and I’d found out later that he chose to not tell me. It’s entirely up to you. I told FWH some days after I’d posted it, just in case he felt obligated to warn MOW.

I like your Happy People assessment. I’ve copied it, but unfortunately I haven’t found a way of taking the ideas intravenously. Damn, wish I could!

Dipstick, your book analogy: FWH said his affair was like reading a book. He’d pick it up, be engrossed reading a few pages or chapters, put it down and get on with his real life. Trouble was, he carried that bloody book with him everywhere!

Finally, the Tiger (now known as Cheetah, love that joke!) Woods story should be a warning that infidelity is the gift that keeps on giving whether you are Joe/Joanne public or a celebrity. Time for it to be out of the news now. I am sick of hearing about it. FWH looks like he wants to throw up every time it’s on the tv. He gets this fixed blank expression, like he’s just sitting it out waiting for the next news item.

Better get on with my day. Weekend was ok, stressed myself out rather than had it thrust upon me. Families!!!


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 1:50 PM, December 15th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hey UK.. thanks for input... me too, same feeling about double betrayal.. already wanted to kick OM's best friend's ass too (at one point I was going to punch OM's best friend because I know he knew and never told me a thing... always acted weird around me.. lol)...

So How do I approach my wife with this Q... What was this guys name again, where did he go to HS and age?

I'm afraid she is not going to like that Q... But, I have not asked tough Q's in a long time.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 3:33 PM, December 15th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To be really desired
To have that pride
I want to say sex is not all that
But it is
To be really desired
With your pride... is this real?

[This message edited by trynhard at 3:34 PM, December 15th (Tuesday)]


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