feelin quite sick the last few days, today is the first day i could actually hold my head up somewhat decently...so here i am...wanted to pop in and see if all did o.k. for the holiday....yesterday i did manage to sit with my family at the dinner table...and when we had to say what we were thankful for...that was it for me...my mom and pfm did the whole dinner, minus a few things that i would have beenn able to do...didn't really see the need, so the 2 of them with a little help from me did the dinner...they did a good job...and i have to say pfm in general has been wonderful in helping me and this has been wonderful for my dd17 to see.....
i will catch up on all another time...need to lay down now....
Our wayward husbands, needy and looking for someone to boost his ego, must look for someone beneath them, someone who will look up to him, someone who will make him feel superior, if only temporarily.
She hardly goes anywhere without me. The only time she would have a chance to cheat is at lunch. I have some lunches with her and she always calls me if we don't meet. I really do not have any reason to be suspicious of her. Like you said, we get lazy and too secure.
Tryn’, thanks for the image. He is a fat cat (well, perhaps dog would be more appropriate!) and although I may have passed on the cake-eater phrase, I have to say it was one I picked up from SI. That is the thing about the LTA WS, they truly are fence-sitting cake-eaters. Happy with swinging their legs from one side to the other, taking in the view and congratulating themselves on their clever ability to juggle their alternative lives.
Today, some people cannot believe, but I do forgive the OM. I dwelled for months about how I was going to kill or hurt him... today, not a single thought like that...
Okay. I think I’m caught up. Hope Thanksgiving went well for all over the pond. And Miracle, I hope you manage to shake off whatever it is you have. Hugs to all, glad to see Whatnow has dropped by and is doing well.
Have a good weekend (((((Tribe)))))
My wife wrote me the most beautiful letter and gave it to me on Thanksgiving. I was totally surprised. She said she would have gone on and on being this horrible person. She expressed in the most deeply way how grateful she was to still have me and how great of a man I was… and describe me and all my strengths. She gave me thanks for loving her. We’ve had both a good and bad holiday… good love, but bad luck.. Daughter was in major car accident but not hurt. He boyfriend hurt his knee. Car is bad.
Iwantamiracle… Dr. Phil says health is one of the most important things that can make you feel unhappy… I hope your feeling better.
Image for lovinlife..
[This message edited by trynhard at 9:32 AM, November 28th (Saturday)]
In my case, I am holding a big time grudge against the MOW....
she was married with 3 kids, a co-worker, who knew that my husband was married. She began the pursuit-big time... I have the emails to back that up... she continued pursuing throughout the 5 years of the affair!
And... the worst thing about the OW? She was a serial cheater... for all 30+ years of her marriage! She started having affairs 2 yrs after she got married....with a married co-worker. During the years of that LTA the MOW got pregnant twice (who knows who the father is!)...that affair ended after 6 yrs when the married affair partner left his wife and young children for another OW...not this one! A few years later her husband found out about the LTA... they went through all of the agony of d-day etc. She made all kinds of promises to him and lied ....
they decided to have another child together... and reconcile... meanwhile she continued drinking, partying after work, and screwing around on her husband!
Finally, when her youngest was 10 yrs old...my husband had the bad luck of moving his office into her building...she began her pursuit immediately....
so.... I do NOT have an sympathy for this spider...that has zero remorse or morals or ethics... who pursues married men for the excitement of it all ..the ego boost... she could care less about the men... and definitely does not care about the wives and families she destroys..
Let me give you another comparison. Your H is walking down the street and finds $100,000. He picks it up looks around looking for the owner. He thinks he can walk away with and nobody will know. He thinks, I’ll keep it because I want a boat and car. Do you hate the $100,000? Is it the $100,000 fault? That $100,000 has drug history that many are hooked on… It is a flaw in you H! not the money.
You are hating the wrong person. You should hate you H…. and if that is case, then you should begin a new life with someone else. People will have affairs until caught. People do change. Some don’t.
You need to accept you married a weak minded, greedy man.. Has he told you he has changed? He is a changed man? Is he being a good husband today? A good kind man? Caring toward you? If yes, then accept he was this man taken over by Satan… now start doing everything to be caring and loving to him…Care for him and do it for you.
And you know what? Your H may be a good person or not… but if he is not, you will know again… and deal with it. But in the meanwhile, you might as well do every loving thing you can until he does not love to you… Peace
[This message edited by trynhard at 8:02 AM, November 29th (Sunday)]
Thanks for my image... and for sharing it!
I sure wish that you could find some balance... I worry. Holding on to hate will keep you down.
As for the OW and hating or blaming... my OW was not very nice at all. She was single and caused alot of difficulties during our R. But it reached a point where I put her and her ghost away for good, and I refuse to look back! If we allow the OW and our hate of them to hold us back from healing, then they may as well still be here. KWIM!!
Let go and enjoy life!
Hope you are feeling better. Sending you healing thoughts and prayers.
tryn... happy to hear about the letter your W gave you. Hope you continue to move forward and away from the pain of the past.
The holidays are upon us. Hope we can all find some pleasure to look towards!
I am woman, hear me ROAR!!
What you accept, you teach!
Me 53, WS 54
Reconciled for life!
DD 24, DS 27
njgal and chic: what i think tryn was attempting to say is that blaming the op is really futile, your ws is solely responsible for his/her own actions....no matter what is thrown his/her way, your ws should be faithful to the marriage and to you, that is what marriage is....for us to concieve that the person we love most in this world could do something so hurtful to us is really hard to do, afterall, we could never even dream of being unfaithful, we tend to project onto others our pov's...but our ws's are/were defective in this aspect....no matter what came their way, they (the ws's) should have been not only strong enough, but not even tempted to stray....so within your marriage your ws is the one who brought the op into your/our lives...again no matter how predatory...the ws is solely responsible for his/her own actions....
having said this i too hate several of the op's.....but not because i blame them....the blame rests solely with pfm...but because of each set of circumstances and the fact that you just don't do shit like this period.....i also hate them for not being honest with me when i questioned them, i know this is really a joke...after all what really can there be thats honest about a person having sex with a known married man...
ukgirl: good to hear from you, you were missed...
yes he did affair down:....dbb said it well...your ws's ow was willing to accept whatever crumbs were given...and in that same gist my ws was both the affair down person as well as the person who affaired down ...i know really confusing...his first ow was married when he was not, he kept that relationship going and took pretty much whatever she threw his way and he did that to another....with ow #2...the judge who told him that she would take him anyway she could...
but bottom line is that the op is not the one who betrayed us, the op made no vows to us, the op made us no promises....unless the op is a friend or family member the op is not the betrayer..the ws is...
dealing with the op's motives is futile....it serves no purpose in trying to heal what has already been done....the motives of the ws are the only motives that need to be not only looked at but completely dissected....the ws is solely responsible for his or her own actions and will be forever....and part of this crap is looking at the possibility of this happening again...and we cannot control what others will present to our ws's....so the ws's need to learn how to be moral and true to their spouses, thier vows and ultimately to themselves....
I don’t really care.
do u really feel this way, or do you wish you felt this way?...i know i wish i didn't really care....it would make this whole process so much easier i would think...
how do you stop loving someone?..i have such a hard time with this one in particular....just as i loved pfm....it was all based on fantasy...the same thing for pfm and ow#1...he loved her, he loved her enough to accept everything she threw at him, loved her enough to abuse me, loved her enough to turn me into his hole, loved her enough to dream of her, loved her enough period...and it was supposedly based on fantasy....so why can he say he doesn't love her anymore...he loved her longer then knowing me, he loved her better then ever loving me...so how can he turn that love off?... and how can i?...i know i am working on it, but he seems to not be working on that at all, he is working on himself, but i do not see him grieving the lost relationship with her, only the lost relationship with me....so i wonder when will that lost relationship ever be delt with....or even the lost relationship with his parents who before this were "godlike" to him....so much he has to deal with, i guess they are all in his little compartments, put away, not put away where he can move forward, just put away in that obstacle course of his mind.....
tryn: good for you, having a thankgiving to be thankful for...and that last pic of you was indeed powerful and even more healing i would imagine because you are not that man anymore...you have evolved, that man is part of what brought you to be who you are today...and i do believe you are happy with who you are inside....and i believe that even when you stop the meds you will still feel as you do now....maybe have a little more sorrow over some things but generally content working towards happy...
There are a few details I would like to have the answer to. Not the sex part. She answerd that stuff. Just some other things I sometimes wonder about.
what are they?, i if may ask?...
I did have a gut feeling about a certain man at one time during her LTA. I just flat out asked her. She said no way was she interested in him. She did not end that sentence with "or anyone else." I guess I should have picked up on that. After her confession about her A, I asked about him again. I got the same answer. Who knows?
is this one of them? and when was the last time you had asked her, and would this be one of those things that you are afraid to question her about because of her reactions?
there are several people who have told me what does it really matter, how much do you need to know, the most important shit you already know, the details should not matter...and to move forward you need to know that its all in the past, that the ws is no longer that person, the ws will never do this again, the ws is now accountable, the ws is not going to cheat again....then there is that voice in the back of my head that says well if its so inconsequential at this point then why hold onto the information that will allow me to let it go, why hold onto information that may or may not seem important to you, it is important to me...and most of all why not show me that you can be honest, forthcoming, transparent in all things and do what i need as opposed to yet again doing what you need...when does it ever get to be about me? what about what i need.....and if i were still interested in reconciling i would need to have my needs not only met, but met with sincerity and joy in providing me with my needs....meeting each others needs to me is something that should be a dealbreaker....it is not wants but needs....and if the needs are not met by one they will be met via another, or another outlet.....it kind of goes both ways....
for me, for years i put alot of my needs on hold, i was busy being a mom, but needs were always being brought to the surface, and relayed to pfm, i refused to bury them...i knew that eventually pfm would have to meet them, or i would not only not be happy but i would find other outlets, for the time being my outlets were my 3 kids...when confronted with just how selfish he was with his own needs and stupid i must add, i realized that i will no longer put my needs on a back burner for anyone..my 3 kids are still my priority but i will make myself a priority as well....
I seldom venture into his head anymore, so I dont know what he is thinking. Maybe I am being a conflict avoider, but I guess I reached such a scary low at some point, that I decided to figure my ehad out first as a means of survival. I am still at it!
i think if you really mean this about not venturing into his head, it would probably do you good....but when trying to reconcile i would think that knowing what is going on his head would be necessary for survival of a healthy relationship.....isn't that what we would strive for...healthy reconcilliation....if its not healthy then it will quickly head towards disfunctional at some point in time....
hb: your well wishes were very well said...and its so funny that getting out of bed is exactly what i was thankful for on thanksgiving ...not because of this infidelity crap but because i truly was sick....
and i am even more thankful now that i am not only out of bed but somewhat functioning again..
lovin: thank you so much for your well wishes, and as always it so good to hear from the other side.. the healed side that is...
I am not fully healed, but consider myself a work in progress!
I still occasionally grieve, and still have times that hurt my heart. They are very few and for that I am thankful.
My H hasn't dealt with everything either, and I know he never will! Having said that, he has changed dramatically and is trying, and living the truth everyday now! I don't think that another A will be in our future, but who really knows what will happen?! I have just chosen to let tommorrow take care of itself and live for today. Today is good!
Have a wonderful week LTA!!
I will just try not to cry now.
welcome to si, please go to the healing library if you have not already done so....
i do not know your story, but whenever you are ready there are an awful lot of people who will be ready to listen, both here, in just found out or in general.....
i am so sorry that you are here, but it is a safe place to be...
I am sorry you are feeling bad. I understand why your feelings of hate towards OW would grow. I guess I always had a sense of sisterhood and doing right by other women, but I know now that was a very naive view on my part.
I harbored a great deal of hate for OW, but my IC told me that holding onto that hate was giving OW undeserved power over me. So I have worked to let go of the hate. I will never forgive her--not that she would ever ask because she was only remorseful that I found out, not that she had an A with my H. No, she didn't owe me a damn thing, and that was obvious since she stole what was rightfully mine, and my H aided and abetted her in the theft.
My H certainly A-down. My H was OW's fourth or fifth AP. I have reason to believe she likely had ONS in addition multiple A. About all she and I have in common is gender, age, and nationality. Otherwise, she can't begin to compare favorably with me. But really, the competition was never with her. It was with my H's sense of entitlement, immaturity, depression, lack of commitment to me and our marriage, ability to compartmentalize, and giving himself permission to cheat.
I love my H, and in many ways our marriage is the best it has ever been. But in my heart is a bit of bittersweet sadness for what was lost and broken and can never be mended or replaced.
I was feeling VERY down yesterday and today between this whole Tiger Woods mess and thinking of an old friend who just divorced Monday after years of dealing with her now XWH and his SA. I told my H that I would have preferred he divorced me than cheated on me. I would have been hurt, but NOTHING like I have been because of his A.
I understand how my H could have given himself permission to cheat. I understand his FOO issues, but at the heart of it all, I still can not quite come to terms how someone can believe s/he loves her/his spouse and have an A. I guess that is because the idea of doing so is complete anathema to me. I would sooner slit my wrists than cheat. I told my H today that I just can not understand how he could have spent all those years giving OW what he should have been giving to me. I know logically that what he gave her were lies, so uhm, now that I write this, I guess he gave me exactly what he gave her! Lies!
He told me that he hates what he has done and it hurts to see me in pain and know that he is the one who caused the pain. I know he is remorseful, but sometimes, I just think--and say to him--why the hell don't the cheaters just marry each other and leave the noncheaters alone because, after all, they are cheaters, so why would they care if their spouse were cheating too?
Ack! Then throw in the fact that I have OCD and that a spouse's A is about the absolute WORST thing that can happen to someone with OCD, and it isn't surprising that I STILL obsess about the A sometimes.
I'll be better tomorrow.
Hugs to everyone. This is a very challenging road we are all on.
Visit that Just Found Out forum... they will help you.
No proof? You go get it! Everyone makes mistakes and you will get your proof if something did go on... And don't stop until you have in your mind what you need. Do not fear because you H will become disparate and may lie to protect his hurt and pain. DO IT!!! starting today! Make a plan...
- start with a credit check. Get every credit card you have and get every bill. Look for hotels.
- Look at cash! To stay a hotels takes at least $100...
- Tell him you want a Polygraph.
- Look a phone records. My wife talked with OM everyday for years.. 20 minutes plus... and I thought it was business! No way.
- Confront your H. Asked him to help prove no Affair. Tell him you feel so scared, hurt and the pain is incredible but you need to know... AND THIS.. YOU WILL KNOW. Tell him this... The end is here if you have been having affairs... Tell him this... "I can forgive but you must tell me all now. All of it. If you cannot, then I might not be able to forgive you.
If he catches you looking... Do not fear.. keep going... keep going...
You are in my prayers...
I guess I kind of equate being too secure with unconditional trust.
It's funny, I have not told her to always call and I have not forbidden her to go places on her own, she just does it that way. Yes, I realize that without a camera phone, a call is just a call. Not total proof that nothing is going on.
It is good to hear that you had a nice part to the holiday. Sorry to hear about the wreck. I hope everyone involved is getting better.
I hope you are feeling better. Being sick on the holidays sucks.
When I wrote about wondering about some stuff, I said to myself, "I bet miracle will want to know what they are." I win that bet.
The answer is that it is all too long, and stupid to get into today. To answer your second question, no I don't think so. To answer your your next question, a long time ago. To answer your next question, I am afraid to ask her anything about the A because of her reaction. I hope I did not miss any questions.
This situation concerning a BS feeling toward the OP is one of the most two sided topics I have seen on SI. This is a place where so many opinions are so similar but this is not one.
I agree that to hate the op is very counterproductive and serves no useful purpose. People say why blame op, it takes two to tango. I agree with that. She is # one he is # two. That is why I feel that they are both in that 50% range of blame.
If I leave my house unlocked should someone just walk in while I am not there? While they are there should they steal from me? They know they are trespassing. They know they are stealing. Does it somehow make the op innocent just because I did not lock the door? Am I suppose to say, well thats o.k. I should expect this, since I did not lock the door?
I admire someone like trynhard, I really do. He is making a great effort to get past the A. I know he is going to succeed. I feel bad disagreeing with him about this subject. Maybe some day I will see it his way.
Be sure and come back. You can get some good advice here. It helps to know that you are not alone while dealing with these problems.
chicstyler, njgal, lovinlife, fairyfriend.
I am out of time, so I just want to send my best thoughts to you.
I TOTALLY agree with you that both OP and WS are equally guilty of cheating, except when the OP believed the WS was single. But no matter how we slice the blame for the A, the responsibility to stay committed is 100% up to the WS.
I don't have any kind words to write about my H's OW, and nor should I. Do I believe she owes me? Yes, but I have no illusions that she will ever be remorseful and apologize. So I don't expect anything from her. That way I can't be disappointed. I do, however, expect a great deal from my H. He is the one who stepped out of our marriage. He is the one who says he does NOT want a divorce and does NOT want to be with OW. He recognizes that he has almost nothing in common with her and would NEVER have chosen her for anything other than an AP.
I expect and have gotten apologies and remorseful behavior from my H. If I hadn't, I wouldn't be married to him today. I have found that while I am still a compassionate person, I no longer tolerate unacceptable behaviors from ANYONE, least of all him. I call him EVERY SINGLE TIME I think he is over the line. He knows I will, too. And, gee, today he THINKS before he acts (not always before he speaks yet, but he's working on that! )
[This message edited by fairyfriend at 3:56 PM, November 30th (Monday)]
I am not fully healed, but consider myself a work in progress
you may not be fully healed, but your recovery is remarkable and should be celebrated..and for the work in progress....all humans are a work in progress til the day we die...as it should be...we are a forever evolving species...changing, adapting and living with whatever comes our way, some of us just do it better then others... some of us get stuck along the way...but even when we are stuck, things, people, places and events are still ever changing...
your acceptance and i believe your forgiveness is inspirational...you have found a way to be happy, at least most of the time...and i really hope that your moments of grieving become a part of your past...i still remember your wedding pic....it was around the time i first started to really post...your faces were totally oozing with light and happiness....
I'll be better tomorrow.
totally excellent attitude...and it sort of reminds me of gone with the wind... ...but it really is a great way to look at everything really.....but i do hope that changes someday to "i'll be better today"...after all why put off til tomorrow what you can do today...
and yes, yes, yes and yes...so way much more easier said then done...you are so correct that this journey is a rough one...
"I bet miracle will want to know what they are." I win that bet.
yep, you win..
I hope I did not miss any questions.
This situation concerning a BS feeling toward the OP is one of the most two sided topics I have seen on SI. This is a place where so many opinions are so similar but this is not one.
i think the reasons for such differing views has so much to do with first are you the bs or the ws, and most importantly where you are in your healing and in your ability to face everything your ws has done objectively...
objectivity is a scarcity among most of us, we are too scarred and still scarring from our experiences...and when we reach the stage as lovinlife as reached, we still harbor some residual pain....a pain like no other...there are only a few hurts out there that i believe can equal the depth or surpass the depth of this one...
i will eventually get there to that place called happy...or at the very least content, but i will not settle for content for too long...i've settled far too much in this life as it is...i want happy, and i don't mean the dwarf either... and i want happy all the time happy, not just stolen moments...and i have decided that that is exactly what i will have...now, would be nice but i will settle for tomorrow...oops i is settling again...
[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 10:50 PM, November 30th (Monday)]
The pain a wayward causes is beyond what they can know for most people. For me, I had never experience any mental pain my whole life until last year.
I also felt 2Gullible’s pain… my image I call Brain Pain
[This message edited by trynhard at 6:40 AM, December 1st (Tuesday)]
I call this... Not Wrapped
Imagine my puzzled face when that wart appeared. What is it? Doctor says, “Don’t worry about it, it’s a virus and will likely just go away” An unwrapped gift; not a blanket... but blanketed me... This is no fairy land... it may be a gift that keeps on giving.
It was amazing only a brief thought came into my mind I could have gotten this from my wife. Doc said no big deal and no telling how I got it nor a word about this being a STD.... so I dismissed with unconditional trust.
BTW..I accept what has happened to me... Warts did go away after about 2 years.
[This message edited by trynhard at 9:39 AM, December 1st (Tuesday)]
Sorry. Took off on one there. I don’t know if she is trying to contact my H through some sort of ESP, but you can understand why I am thinking this way.
You need to accept you married a weak minded, greedy man.. Has he told you he has changed? He is a changed man? Is he being a good husband today? A good kind man? Caring toward you? If yes, then accept he was this man taken over by Satan…
Miracle, I don’t care. Really, I just don’t. What he says is what he says. There were so many occasions when he rang me when he was with MOW. At a hotel, or at her house. All I know is, if I find out otherwise, his stuff will be on the doorstep and he will be locked out. It’s the only threat I have to try and make sure he doesn’t do it again.
I seldom venture into his head anymore, so I dont know what he is thinking. Maybe I am being a conflict avoider,
why the hell don't the cheaters just marry each other and leave the noncheaters alone because, after all, they are cheaters, so why would they care if their spouse were cheating too?
I accept what has happened to me... Warts did go away after about 2 years.
UKgirl, my H gave me herpes, too. As far as we can figure, he likely had it when we married and didn't know. I got it some time fairly early on in our marriage but never had a really bad outbreak. I do remember having slight outbreaks but never realized I had herpes. After DDay #3 I had an outbreak that was so bad I ended up in the ER which is when I was diagnosed. Since then I have had many outbreaks, but I can tell when one is coming on, so I take a round of Valtrex--thank heavens for the meds!!!
You're likely correct that WS don't want to marry other cheaters. Probably also they don't want to be married to a cheater! My H said he didn't.
Can we say "hypocrite?"