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User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 4
Razor
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Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, March 22nd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

oscar.

it was a few years into counseling until one counselor told my wife she shouldn't attend family gatherings if the OM was going to be there. Imagine that,,, and I thought I was screwed up, by not getting over it.

Most MC are not worth shit. Most advice they offer actually hurt the M and chance of R. Every MC we went to (and there was allot) did not know shit about infidelity. May be they read a few books but thats it. Oftimes they find ways to blame the BS citing problems in the M that made the A happen. And this makes the wound we bear all the greater.

You are feeling these things because all issues with the A are not resolved in you mind. You still suffer with them. So they have not been healed and have not had a chance to do that esp since you WW continues with some contact with OM.

You WW have no regard for you feelings. She dont care. So how can you possibly heal. She may make allot of tears over this. But with out empathy she is only crying for her self. Not you and the pain you bear that she caused. That she chose to cause. And kept choosing.

Some people are sociopaths. There is no redemption for them. They can not have empathy for those they hurt because that part of they self that can do that is missing. They care only for they needs and wants and any one in the way gets run over and doesnt matter.

I will echo what others say here. Seeing the OM again is horribly cruel. It is a thing some one who feels they are entitled do do what ever they want with out consequence would do. It is cruel and inconsiderate and unfeeling beyond measure. And you have every right to be hurt by it.

Razor


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3086 | Registered: Sep 2007
resigned
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Member # 12903
Default  Posted: 4:11 PM, March 22nd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wow oscar, 25 years is a long time to still be dealing with this. Your situation shows that time doesn't heal, it's what happens during that time. Particularly what the WS does to help their BS heal.

You are absolutely justified being anxious about your FWW and the OM having a good time together without you there. I can't tell you how incredibly cruel I think that is of your FWW to do that.

And then to try to put it on you when you reach out to her for help. No wonder you feel like you're going nuts.
She's torturing you and telling you it shouldn't hurt.

I'd say at a minimum she needs to end all contact with the OM. That shouldn't be negotiable.


Posts: 453 | Registered: Dec 2006
oscar
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Member # 27958
Default  Posted: 11:06 PM, March 22nd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes it is blessing to be able to talk to friends who do really know where one is coming from. I don't believe any of my friends who I might confide in could ever understand why after 25 years this should still bother me. It would seem crazy to me.As I said earlier, it was maybe the 5th or 6th counselor(not session), that told my W, no contact. You all know this,,, I didn't.
But it is not a matter of trust anymore, my W was correct when she asked me if I thought she would sneak in his room,,,,, I don't/didn't think that in the slightest. I think it is more a matter of my ego or pride or something I don't know yet.
I believe that it was not because I knew better that I didn't do the same thing, I grew up so naive about everything. I grew up on a remote dairy farm and had no idea. My W was the first(and only) person I ever had sex with, I'd never watched porn, no soaps,, and if it had been me,, I would have thought it wouldn't be anyone's business but my own. I realized only after the A how devastating it is.
Well, yes 25 year si a long time, it hasn't helped that we all livein the same valley, My W and I built our house together, I had a good teaching job,,, but hindsite,,,we should have moved. However, I wonder, if one does not control/kill his Jaberwoki(sp?), will it just get bigger? I remember living in the house where some of the other sex had happened. There were certain areas of the house that killed me,,, after we moved out, it was the whole house.
ay, I'm starting to ramble ,,, I just can't think straigh now.
I do appreciate everyone's thoughts, and caring. It is a bitch isn't it!

Posts: 5 | Registered: Mar 2010
TimMe
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Member # 25220
Default  Posted: 10:55 AM, March 23rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BrokenBadger

Wow, so Iím talking with the W last night and we are getting the house fixed up a bit. I was telling her that I know she doesnít want to be where we live and doesnít want to be with me anymore. She goes on about ďwhy would I want to do all this work on the house if I didnít want to be here..Ē,

Not to alarm you BB, but I was with my XWSO for over 7 years........during that time, I spent countless hours renovating not only our old primary home, but a get-away house on the lake.Before I found out about the OM, we had nearly completed a beautiful addition to complement the old home. We (I should say "I" did much of that work) spent months planning/designing/decorating it.

Then I found out about her OM and was asked to leave the home (typical " I need some space" BS) No common law here in NH (we both were fine w/o a marriage certificate as we had no children). Both of us were cheated on by former spouses - hence the lack of desire to make it formal. Still, I believed that the house was also mine (not in the beginning but after X repeatedly reminded me that it was ours)and it was for our future.

She never had the courage to explain or answer anything to me- just thrown to the curb with no compassion.....utter callousness. She even had the nerve to tell her new BF to call and taunt me about his enjoying all my hard work. "Thanks man - you did a good job on the house".

Needless to say, I had thoughts of doing them both in, but I'm a non-violent person. Shows how that rage which others describe can come out with a bang.

A big part of the infidelity problem is that despised "no fault" law that most states have - where the innocent victim not only has to split 50% of assets when they chose not to cheat, but if children are involved, they get screwed even more for CS (over and above the wish to care for their children). I guess I'm lucky we never had children- married or not, but I still feel used and damaged- particularly when "she" was cheated on herself. The stories I heard about how she reacted (out of control basket case) to her WWH's philandering underscores the irony and hypocrisy in all this. He married her BFF.

I tell you all this because unfortunately, it "can" be true that she might be stringing you along and I'd hate for you to blind-sided as I was. I'm not sure if you have any cards in a row, but obviously it happened to me.I wouldn't wish it(or any other cold and insensitive behavior) on anyone. It devastated me and after this being the second instance of infidelity for me, I'm not sure if I can ever recover my self again.

If you'd like to talk, please feel free to PM me.

Tim


and also that we should ďstart overĒ and rekindle the M. Sounds goo d to me. Until I hear via VAR what she had been saying to the ex-bf just a few hours earlier. That she is done with me and want to fix the house up to get the best price for it, etc. She plans on being with him in the future and just keeps stringing me along. WTF guys, I just donít know how much more damage I can take. How somebody who claims to love you can be so devious, even when I tell her that I know what is up. Clearly fíd up in so many ways. I just feel myself shaking from the betrayal.


What is moral is what you feel good after.

Ernest Hemingway


Posts: 253 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: NH
TimMe
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Default  Posted: 11:08 AM, March 23rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wincing_at_light

Well, hell, I'd rather have my pain than my wife's, too. In almost every possible way, I've healed more, better and faster than she has *because* all I had to do was get over the hurt done to me by a complete idiot.

I never had to face the prospect of *being* the complete idiot.

But like Jimi and, I truly believe, a great many -- even most -- BH's, I've never seen anywhere near the sort of effort, insight, work, etc., out of my wife that ladies like BR and Fallen, Maia and DS have put in.

I can probably count on one hand and a couple of extra fingers the number of WW's I've seen even around here who I felt at the end of the day had really done significant work to become someone better/different/non-fucked up.

How many times have we seen newly-NC'd WW's desperate to keep their husbands declaring "I've changed! It's been three weeks since D-day! Why can't he see how much I've changed and how much I'm not that person who snuck around and lied and cheated for all those years?!"

And then 3 months later, they're "mutually" divorcing because their BH wouldn't ever go all in and "it takes two to R".

Lies, bullshit and dumbasses, I say.

Most people have just enough self-awareness to realize they made a mistake and to spin a new set of lies to help themselves sleep at night. I'm grateful that my wife has taken steps to deal with her bipolar disorder (which was a significant contributor to her affairs) because it means I'm not getting screamed at every day of my life.

But my wife's solution to the affair stuff itself has been 1) don't talk about it and 2) if you can't avoid talking about it, be defensive and blameshift while still acknowledging that it was completely wrong. Add in that my wife is now even *more* jealous/paranoid about me than she was before the affairs (and she was fucking psychotic about it before), and it's clear that she's made no progress at all.

My wife actually bombed her nursing boards last month. Know why? Because she decided that if she actually got licensed and could get work that I'd probably leave her because she'd be able to take care of herself.

That's right back into affair-think.

So, yeah, most WW's aren't like BR. Most are just trying to get some sort of guarantee that the BH is going to hang around (since so many of them have massive abandonment issues), and as soon as they're satisfied, they stop working, stop progressing and go back to making it all their husband's fault (i.e., "well, he just can't get past this and won't fully commit to R...that's what our problem is").

They don't learn to self-soothe or meet their own needs and just transfer the who need-meeting dynamic back to the BH...except now they're often too afraid to bring things up because they've been a lousy cheater/don't deserve to have the needs met, so we get penalized for not meeting needs *and* not mind reading (which most of us experienced prior to the A anyway)...but we also are labeled as cruel and insensitive because we ought to know how hurt/broken/miserable they are now that the whole world knows they're a tramp.

That seems like the more "normal" dynamic to me.

The BH's heal eventually because there wasn't anything wrong with us in the first place. The WW's don't, and they either become increasingly diminished and miserable in the marriage and resolve to just life empty, hopeless, unfulfilled lives.

Or they decide the problem really was the BH all along and he couldn't/wouldn't ever meet their needs (i.e., the one's they wouldn't ever dream of trying to meet themselves...that's what other people are for!) and decide they need to be divorced.

Then they get to tell the new chump about what an awful, emotionally abusive guy you were...a guy who drove them to cheating because we wouldn't love and support them enough...a guy who shattered their self-esteem by not ever giving them the love and attention they needed ("I just wanted to be loved!!!"). And before you know it, you're all that was ever wrong with her and she wasn't ever broken and she's off sucking some other guy dry with her bottomless hole of need for validation.

For me, this was an amazingly insightful post as to the dynamics (irrational at that) of many WW. I also believe this post underscores a big reason "why" most divorces are initiated by women. Damned if you do, damned if you don't sort of thinking. Many speak of WW's distorted logic, blame shifting, etc. as seemingly read from a manual. It's amazing to me how natural it is for WW's to spew all that BS in order to save face. Whatever happened to accountability and actually hanging your head in shame a bit?

I will be starting graduate studies for marriage and family counseling (specializing in infidelity) this coming fall. I thought I'd be starting earlier, but my dad recently passes away.

I assure you that I will strive to be UNLIKE most therapists who think they understand infidelity. I have a lot of experience under my belt and plan to utilize it. If I can salvage a marriage and stave off the pursuit for greener grass, I'll be ecstatic.


What is moral is what you feel good after.

Ernest Hemingway


Posts: 253 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: NH
lostcause111
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Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, March 23rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I had no read that wincing quote in a while. Thank you.

Another site worth checking out is:

http://shrink4men.wordpress.com/

In my readings and two plus years post d-day really except for a handfull of WS everything .... and some I previously could not accept is true and boy does it hurt.

I have come to believe this. Oftem our WW have always and been always out for themselves. That is a given.

It is stage two that frightens me. Because hurting you was not their intention it is your fault that you feel the way you do.

I believe this and it scares the hell out of me ...


Posts: 934 | Registered: Apr 2008
TimMe
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Member # 25220
Default  Posted: 11:53 AM, March 23rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lostcause111

I had no read that wincing quote in a while. Thank you.

You're welcome LC......it does make you wince a bit :)


Another site worth checking out is:

http://shrink4men.wordpress.com/

Thanks - I'll look into that.

In my readings and two plus years post d-day really except for a handfull of WS everything .... and some I previously could not accept is true and boy does it hurt.

I know how it hurts LC and I'm sorry you've been so adversely affected by it all. I mentioned that this is the second time for me and not only does that suck, but this time it was with a therapist who was previously cheated on herself. "That" is what scares me.

I have come to believe this. Often our WW have always and been always out for themselves. That is a given.

Tough to process and accept LC, but I'm beginning to believe that as well - especially since I feel used discarded.I try to focus on her brokenness and the fact that unless she(they)gets some help and actually looks inside for answers, she'll /they'll continue to be miserable. Constant validation is an impossibility and an unfair, unrealistic notion for anyone. Trouble is that someone else will most likely be the next victim and NOT them. It's their screwed up life.....you and I can sleep at night - even if sadness and disappointment is a given.

Just look at them as placing their baggage on someone else's doorstep. Not only is it the same baggage, but the someone else is usually NOT a good mixture for a foundation. If it's based upon deceit, then the likelihood of success - true success- is minimal indeed.
They can validate each other all they want, but in the end it's an illusion. Real love is unlike their fantasy.

It is stage two that frightens me. Because hurting you was not their intention it is your fault that you feel the way you do.

Yes, it's scary, but what do you expect from cowards? Unhealthy ones at that? That's their only device in shifting the guilt and blame.It's as if they think we're suddenly stupid. All of a sudden the displeasure with the relationship is magnified to the nth degree and they don't even realize what they're saying or doing. I like the word "cowardly" - it explains the real and undeniable truth.

I believe this and it scares the hell out of me ...

I think it's scary to believe that there are many more out there like our X's, BUT hope is essential.......if nothing else, reading from the female BS's will lend to the fact that there ARE good and decent people out there. I think they're harder to find (in this day and age), but they're out there.I'd really hate to think that people in general enjoy being miserable,cowardly, and shitty to others.What kind of world would that be?


What is moral is what you feel good after.

Ernest Hemingway


Posts: 253 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: NH
64fleet
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Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 11:57 AM, March 23rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'd really hate to think that people in general enjoy being miserable,cowardly, and shitty to others.What kind of world would that be?

this world right here, we are living in it.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
TimMe
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Member # 25220
Default  Posted: 12:14 PM, March 23rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

64fleet:

this world right here, we are living in it.

If you mean SI, you're absolutely right. So much devastation and sadness.


What is moral is what you feel good after.

Ernest Hemingway


Posts: 253 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: NH
TwiceTorn
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Member # 13895
Default  Posted: 1:08 PM, March 23rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I often wonder if these MC's really know what if anything about infidelity. Because everyone I ever went to would make me share the blame in the affairs. I guess I just could never wrap my head around it. Yes I spend to much time on the computer, watching TV, taking pictures, making my business work, working, all in my own little world. But heres the difference, its all constructive and doesn't destruct.

I mean really, nothing I did would make someone do stuff. I didn't tell my XWW or my XWF to go out and find someone else. That shit was broken in them, thats the heart of the matter. Sure I have faults and all that, putting a magnified eye on me when I wasn't the one that made the choice to cheat. But of course after the fact its easier to blameshift to problems in the M or relationship. All of the MC's encouraged that behavior, like they were afraid to upset the wayward, and tip toe around it. To me it all seems like a waste of time, it benefits no one, nothing gets fixed or even resolved.

Heck the whole concept of no-fault divorces pisses me off, there is fault! Someone broke the legal contract, I have proof. But in the end, I lost my business, my home, and the ability to be a full time father, forever garnishing wages to make up time I should be with my son. All because my XWW wanted to re victimize herself for sexual gratification. It doesn't matter how much you do for the M, or how anything. They will minimize it, turn it around to justify their own actions. They can and do live with that, and can blame it all on our shoulders to sleep at night.

Yet here I am almost 3 years after my Divorce, picking up pieces of myself. Very few people in real life get this shit, not my family, not people I work with. I'm lucky in a way, because I do have friends that have gone through it. Because it just doesn't end after the D. Hell my neighbor across the street was D'd in 1989 from a 20 year M, infidelity of his WW. For the last 20 years he has had this fuck it attitude from this. Now this summer, hes getting Married again. I can't tell ya how great it is to have a guy in real life to talk to shit about, thats actually been through this wringer.

I'd really hate to think that people in general enjoy being miserable,cowardly, and shitty to others.What kind of world would that be?

I grew up pretty much sheltered, not seeing this shit. Now I have an attitude of "your gunna have some of that."


You've got to trust your instinct
And let go of regret
You've got to bet on yourself now star
'Cause that's your best bet~311 All mixed up


Posts: 3597 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Minnesota
TimMe
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Member # 25220
Default  Posted: 2:31 PM, March 23rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TwiceTorn

I often wonder if these MC's really know what if anything about infidelity. Because everyone I ever went to would make me share the blame in the affairs.

That's because they either have no clue (haven't never experienced it first- hand) or they suck in their expertise. I've read countless books - both re: relationships and infidelity (and I plan to have them in my office some day)and not one of them blames the BS for the affair. Most experts (as well as this board)do admit that any marital issues are shared as far as responsibility (I question that contention when mind reading is assumed) and 100% of blame for the A on the WS.


I guess I just could never wrap my head around it. Yes I spend to much time on the computer, watching TV, taking pictures, making my business work, working, all in my own little world. But here's the difference, its all constructive and doesn't destruct.

That's the difference....both need their individual space, so unless there's absolutely no communication and daily silence, then it shouldn't be deemed destructive. And if that separation(or individual space)is a problem for one of the partners(or both), quite simply, it needs to be communicated. Again, they think we're mind readers."If" EV is a problem with them, then that's a whole different ball of wax.Self sufficiency applies to emotional as well.

I mean really, nothing I did would make someone do stuff. I didn't tell my XWW or my XWF to go out and find someone else. That shit was broken in them, thats the heart of the matter. Sure I have faults and all that, putting a magnified eye on me when I wasn't the one that made the choice to cheat. But of course after the fact its easier to blameshift to problems in the M or relationship.

You're absolutely right. not only are humans flawed (to think otherwise is naive at best), but so many fail to see those issues we carry into adulthood.People try to change others and most adults are established with their patterns- whether positive or negative. It's so easy to blame someone else for unrealistic expectations not being met. Healthy adults step back and say: "hmmmmmmmmm- let me take a look at myself". This is a life-long process, but when love and compassion is at the helm, those faults are entirely able to change or be modified. It's the commitment part that's so important - not giving up when we get into the hate part of a love-hate relationship.


All of the MC's encouraged that behavior, like they were afraid to upset the wayward, and tip toe around it.

Well, that's BS........blame (a compassionate tone of)should be assigned "appropriately". More credence to their lack of resolve, knowledge, and expertise. You can hit someone over the head with a 2x4 "if" it's done in a caring and compassionate way. I certainly don't care to be blamed when innocence is apparent.

To me it all seems like a waste of time, it benefits no one, nothing gets fixed or even resolved.

Heck the whole concept of no-fault divorces pisses me off, there is fault! Someone broke the legal contract, I have proof. But in the end, I lost my business, my home, and the ability to be a full time father, forever garnishing wages to make up time I should be with my son. All because my XWW wanted to re victimize herself for sexual gratification. It doesn't matter how much you do for the M, or how anything. They will minimize it, turn it around to justify their own actions. They can and do live with that, and can blame it all on our shoulders to sleep at night.

You sound like very moral and decent person TT....I've been raised with the same thinking as you, however reality these days (and acceptance by some)dictates that moral doesn't always win out......unfortunately for innocent victims.

Yet here I am almost 3 years after my Divorce, picking up pieces of myself. Very few people in real life get this shit, not my family, not people I work with. I'm lucky in a way, because I do have friends that have gone through it. Because it just doesn't end after the D. Hell my neighbor across the street was D'd in 1989 from a 20 year M, infidelity of his WW. For the last 20 years he has had this fuck it attitude from this. Now this summer, hes getting Married again. I can't tell ya how great it is to have a guy in real life to talk to shit about, thats actually been through this wringer.

TT - look at all the people on this board who've been affected. Look at the divorce rate......sadly, it's part of a broken society and the best we can do is to be true to ourselves- to our morals and ideals.If some don't care about admirable traits, then quite simply, it's their loss OR they're not capable of sustaining a healthy relationship.


I'd really hate to think that people in general enjoy being miserable,cowardly, and shitty to others.What kind of world would that be?

I grew up pretty much sheltered, not seeing this shit. Now I have an attitude of "your gunna have some of that."

Sometimes I think I'd like to live in a cabin- close to nature with a dog. On the surface, that might seem adequate to some, but the bottom line is that we're social human beings and unfortunately there's some risk when we become vulnerable. Hard lessons, yes, but reality nonetheless.

Hang in there buddy.:)


What is moral is what you feel good after.

Ernest Hemingway


Posts: 253 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: NH
BrokenBadger
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Default  Posted: 3:20 PM, March 23rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tim,
You made the statement/question: It's amazing to me how natural it is for WW's to spew all that BS in order to save face. Whatever happened to accountability and actually hanging your head in shame a bit?
The problem is that there is no accountability anymore. We (Hís) are somewhat disposable items now. If we donít meet the media induced criteria that these women have for us, well then some other guy will. That is only after youíve been through the ringer giving away so much of yourself back to this dysfunctional liar. Iíve seen too many good guys screwed by the legal system and the goods go to the WW. I havenít been in those shoes and will work hard to stay out of that.
You said some guy taunted you about your hard work he was enjoying? Iím not a violent person either, but you taunt me and MF I will bury you. Then I would cruise around town with his scalp hanging off my rearview mirror. I wonít start a war, but when attacked Iíll go full fury until it is done.
Itís so hard to ďlook the other wayĒ when we know we are being screwed over. I kid you not when I say that Iím facing true deviant behavior in my M. Her trying to be sweet to me (all words, no real action) while at the same time gushing to the ex-bf about how she want to be with him, have a life together, etc. And it just gets more wacked from there if you can believe it. I just donít respond anymore. Iím done and this bag of shit M will be brushed to the wayside in the hopefully not too distant future. I just want to get out of this with my dignity, pride, and everything that is rightfully mine intact. I didnít do anything wrong and will stand firmly for myself.

Posts: 210 | Registered: Jan 2006 | From: Hell
wonderingbull
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Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, March 23rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The MC that the ex and I saw was simply worthless... I stormed out of there 2 times and didn't go back after that... Hell, the woman tried to minimize every crazy thing the ex was doing and the final straw was when she brought a gun to my house and stole my dog...

The MC was just like..."Oh that's ok we'll get through this"... I was so pissed that the ex had turned my life into a fucking Jerry Springer episode and it was being minimized to the max by the MC... I finally stormed out and filed a police report about my stolen dog...

I really wanted to tell the dumb ass MC that her H would be as disgusted with the situation as I was if she were caught messing around on him...

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5893 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
TwiceTorn
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Default  Posted: 3:27 PM, March 23rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah, I know I have good morals, and I also know I'm a good person. But from what I have found, people out in real life are looking for a relationship to complete them. Like somehow we are all supposed to be mind readers of what they want out of a relationship. Maybe I'm too simple, stuck in a mindset of what a relationship is supposed to be. Their are so many broken people that have made mistake after mistake, yet feel they are still the victim. It sucks that at my age (37) the single people that are available all seem to be so stuck on not being able to be true to themselves. From what I have experienced, I'm to for-go their past and choices. Yet I am held up to undo past damages that they incurred. Like somehow I have to over compensate, because they got hurt at one time.

The damage in my M was too much to overcome, I don't regret getting D'd, it had to be done. I wouldn't mind being single the rest of my life, but I made that choice when I got married to have someone to share my dreams and failures with. Someone to walk through life with me. Now in the dating realm, I keep finding broken people, that are not able to move forward. Too scared and scarred. What they want or are looking for is so far off from reality. The game that is being played of being chased, wined and dined, then they chose if they wanna move forward or not. Its all so frustrating, and a form of control. So all in all its a lose/lose situation any way you look at it.

Seems to me, no one wants to make anything work. Its easier to cut and run, instead of taking the time to make it work. From that I have seen the all about me attitude has permeated to everyone.

Sucks it really does...


You've got to trust your instinct
And let go of regret
You've got to bet on yourself now star
'Cause that's your best bet~311 All mixed up


Posts: 3597 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Minnesota
Just Crushed
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Member # 24852
Default  Posted: 3:33 PM, March 23rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Great page on this thread guys!

I haven't been on this thread in awhile, but I needed it today. I haven't seen WALs post in awhile.

Damn...I'm living that shit. Seems like just an eventuality at this point...LOL, what a joke.

ETA: I reread my post and wondered if anyone might take my reply wrong. I guess what I meant to say is "very insightful page", not "great page". Don't want to imply that our f'd up sitch's are "great" in any way

[This message edited by Just Crushed at 3:43 PM, March 23rd (Tuesday)]


BH
*details in Profile*

Posts: 843 | Registered: Jul 2009
TimMe
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Default  Posted: 5:37 PM, March 23rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BrokenBadger

Tim,You made the statement/question: It's amazing to me how natural it is for WW's to spew all that BS in order to save face. Whatever happened to accountability and actually hanging your head in shame a bit? The problem is that there is no accountability anymore. We (Hís) are somewhat disposable items now. If we donít meet the media induced criteria that these women have for us, well then some other guy will. That is only after youíve been through the ringer giving away so much of yourself back to this dysfunctional liar. Iíve seen too many good guys screwed by the legal system and the goods go to the WW.

And that's the shame of it all BB - good and decent guys getting the short end of the stick- mainly because of that no-fault crap.BUT... not sure if you heard about the recent 9 million dollar award to the BS in NC? Yes, NC is one of 7 states that allow for suing the third party re: infidelity cases. Well, she won (BS) I just might move there :)


I havenít been in those shoes and will work hard to stay out of that.

I'm glad you're on your toes BB - it sucks that one has to be so mistrusting after all the history and has to take a defensive posture. That's another fallout from their selfish actions - more amplified mistrust of others.


You said some guy taunted you about your hard work he was enjoying? Iím not a violent person either, but you taunt me and MF I will bury you. Then I would cruise around town with his scalp hanging off my rearview mirror. I wonít start a war, but when attacked Iíll go full fury until it is done.

Believe me BB- the rage I experienced (after I found out the new BF had moved in) was the worst I've ever experienced. I was somewhat close to acting on it, but again, I had the foresight to remember that the two POS wouldn't be worth time in jail.There is no comparison to when I found out about my XWW.Think about what a classless POS the BF is and my ex thinks nothing of it, hence la la / fantasy land. Two peas in a pod living an illusion.

Itís so hard to ďlook the other wayĒ when we know we are being screwed over.

Yes it is BB - very tough. I like the word "finagler".

I kid you not when I say that Iím facing true deviant behavior in my M. Her trying to be sweet to me (all words, no real action) while at the same time gushing to the ex-bf about how she want to be with him, have a life together, etc.

Devious, callous,insensitive, selfish, etc. You know all the appropriate words.My ex lied through her teeth while she thought she was throwing me off with her fake kisses and tears. Actions,actions,actions.


And it just gets more wacked from there if you can believe it. I just donít respond anymore. Iím done and this bag of shit M will be brushed to the wayside in the hopefully not too distant future.

I know you wish things were going differently BB, but now it's a question of dignity and self respect- something they know nothing about.


I just want to get out of this with my dignity, pride, and everything that is rightfully mine intact.

As I just mentioned.....you deserve way better than this crap. Please remember that eventually they both will implode.

I didnít do anything wrong and will stand firmly for myself.

Of course you didn't and don't ever let her/him make you feel so. when you strip all their BS away, it comes down to only one question:

"How would you feel if the roles were reversed and the show was on the other foot"? Do you know anyone(other than those in a doomed or unhappy marriage) that would simply not care? I don't. I'll take that bet any time.

Tim


What is moral is what you feel good after.

Ernest Hemingway


Posts: 253 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: NH
TimMe
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Member # 25220
Default  Posted: 9:01 PM, March 23rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TwiceTorn

Yeah, I know I have good morals, and I also know I'm a good person. But from what I have found, people out in real life are looking for a relationship to complete them.

I believe many are that way because they're ignorant (not derogatory) of how much childhood issues play into adulthood - one of them looking for - as you say- someone to complete them or fill some void(s). Extremely unrealistic and unfair thinking.


Like somehow we are all supposed to be mind readers of what they want out of a relationship.

Hence the importance of proper communication...any therapist who's worth their weight will tell you that. It's not as easy as most people think "because" we're not taught how to effectively (and nonagressively) communicate, but it's certainly far from being difficult. Many tend to fight or argue as a way to communicate.


Maybe I'm too simple, stuck in a mindset of what a relationship is supposed to be. Their are so many broken people that have made mistake after mistake, yet feel they are still the victim. It sucks that at my age (37) the single people that are available all seem to be so stuck on not being able to be true to themselves.

Being true to yourself or discovering the true "self" is of utmost importance in finding intimacy - both in yourself and others. One of the things that enables us to get there is quiet. Just being.

From what I have experienced, I'm to for-go their past and choices. Yet I am held up to undo past damages that they incurred. Like somehow I have to over compensate, because they got hurt at one time.

That's not taking hold of your "own" change or growth. Someone can be empathic or compassionate to their past, but it's up to them to do the work.


The damage in my M was too much to overcome, I don't regret getting D'd, it had to be done. I wouldn't mind being single the rest of my life, but I made that choice when I got married to have someone to share my dreams and failures with. Someone to walk through life with me.

You did the best you could and that's all we can do. It takes two to make it work...period.

Now in the dating realm, I keep finding broken people, that are not able to move forward. Too scared and scarred. What they want or are looking for is so far off from reality. The game that is being played of being chased, wined and dined, then they chose if they wanna move forward or not. Its all so frustrating, and a form of control. So all in all its a lose/lose situation any way you look at it.

Hope(even though the frustration and disappointment deters it) is the only way to experience joy again. First you bring joy to yourself - find your own intimacy and then understand that risk is unavoidable. Hopefully, experience will tell you when to disqualify and try again. I know it's difficult, but unless you succumb to isolation and solitude, you have to put yourself out there (as you are), change anything that needs to be changed, and then if others can't or won't do the same, then it's "next".

Seems to me, no one wants to make anything work. Its easier to cut and run, instead of taking the time to make it work. From that I have seen the all about me attitude has permeated to everyone.

And most likely they're still miserable and looking just like you - difference is "you"
can gain even a greater definition of love solely based upon your experience. You may be soured a bit, but from here you've maintained the same dream that many people want to still believe in. Perfection is never possible, however a choice to love someone is easier than you think.

Stop looking for a while and just be - just nurture and care for yourself (as in loving yourself) and it will eventually come when you least expect it.


What is moral is what you feel good after.

Ernest Hemingway


Posts: 253 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: NH
TimMe
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Member # 25220
Default  Posted: 9:13 PM, March 23rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wonderingbull

The MC that the ex and I saw was simply worthless... I stormed out of there 2 times and didn't go back after that... Hell, the woman tried to minimize every crazy thing the ex was doing and the final straw was when she brought a gun to my house and stole my dog...

A good MC guides - not hampers growth. Right and wrong does not and should not have to be learned in counseling courses, nor should it be. Common decency is predicated upon it.

The MC was just like..."Oh that's ok we'll get through this"... I was so pissed that the ex had turned my life into a fucking Jerry Springer episode and it was being minimized to the max by the MC... I finally stormed out and filed a police report about my stolen dog...

Good move - you knew it was going nowhere and that's good.

I really wanted to tell the dumb ass MC that her H would be as disgusted with the situation as I was if she were caught messing around on him...

I would have done that myself. Just the fact that you have come to this board and "learned" puts you way above IC's who have no clue. Always remember that. And remember the next time ANYONE doubts how you should feel, throw it right back at them and ask "How would you feel if your wife/husband was screwing someone else?"

Besides a possible and abrupt silence, most answers will be similarly negative.

I enjoyed reading you WB (and everyone here).

Hang in there!

Tim


What is moral is what you feel good after.

Ernest Hemingway


Posts: 253 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: NH
TimMe
♂ Member
Member # 25220
Default  Posted: 9:17 PM, March 23rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just Crushed

Great page on this thread guys!

I haven't been on this thread in awhile, but I needed it today. I haven't seen WALs post in awhile.

I did not take it as such JC - I knew wexcatly what you meant and I'm glad it helped you today.

Hang in there and much strength to you.

Tim

And you make it even better by being here JC.

Damn...I'm living that shit. Seems like just an eventuality at this point...LOL, what a joke.

Joke (or more appropriately pity) is on them JC, but I know what you mean.

ETA: I reread my post and wondered if anyone might take my reply wrong. I guess what I meant to say is "very insightful page", not "great page". Don't want to imply that our f'd up sitch's are "great" in any way


What is moral is what you feel good after.

Ernest Hemingway


Posts: 253 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: NH
wildturkey
♂ Member
Member # 13629
Default  Posted: 9:29 PM, March 23rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Gentlemen! I haven't been around for a few years, but for some reason decided to log on, and this thread jumped out at me.

After years of MC and IC (still in), I finally came to my decision to D. My final realization was was pretty much exactly what WAL has said.

I didn't see the effort put into trying to figure out what the hell was wrong with her that I saw her put into the A. Most of the angst was her insecurity about the future.

I finally decided that I needed to D. Her need for outside validation is really a bottomless pit. It's an itch that can never be scratched. So rather than limp along with "good enough" until she blames the lousy M on me, I just made the decision to throw in the towel.

Good to see some familiar people here again .


Me - BS
Her - WS
married 20 yrs


I'd like to believe in the healing hands of time
but the truth is I really can't say,
if I'm getting better,
or just used to the pain.

Tracy Lawrence


Posts: 512 | Registered: Feb 2007
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