"True nobility isn't about being better than any one else. It's about being better than you used to be." -Wayne Dyer
painful as that is, I would think having an affirmation like that that you did make the right decision will help you deal with the D, at least you should be spared the agonisation of second guessing yourself.
Trust is such a fragile thing, trust in yourself moreso.
I feel like I could have written some of your words. My ambivilence grows all the time. Sex drive practically tanked, and I was also always up for it.
I think FWW always felt some control inthe M from the sex angle, and now she has a hard time that she lost that. She only has me for financial support, etc., so I think she actialyl gets resentful ironic as that sounds.
Recently (7 Jan) I gave her a letter that juts put it all out there. Told her how I feel now, and what I need to get past it. She was defensive at first but finally (weeks later) seemed very willing to particiapte in my coping. She promised to
1. Write me a letter about what happened and her feeligns about it now.
2. To let me talk about it when I needed to (which was ammended to be Saturdays ONLY)
3. Be honest with me emotionally.
Sadly, I never got he letter, still haven't. If I bring this up I get such a shitstorm response (that I am throwing it in her face), so the talking one never happened, even Saturdays. Finally, the closest I got to the honesty is that YES, she did delete some call records to a guy recently becasue she thought I'd get mad about it (after many denials and I basicalyl proved that they were deleted).
So I am left with none of the commitments seen through, broken promises, additonal, new doubts, and no way to really communicate them.
Here is an interesting side note. Since I almost dread coming home from work these days, I work late occassionally. When I do, she'll always want to have sex that evening. She thinks sex somehow makes things more tolerable, solves issues or scores points, or something I'm being treated to. Depending on my mood (usually not good), I am finding it more difficult now to go through with it, as I am sometimes just too disgusted. Its almost always in some bizarre silent "check the box" type of attitude.
Every day seems like a crapshoot now of depression or elation. It sucks. The biggest problem for me is trying not to let it bleed over to my kids. I get short-tempered, so now I take somethign for anxiety on the way home. It helps.
I understand how you feel about your kids, Its been the same for me. I try and shield them from our turmoil as much as i can. But just as you describe i come with a much shorter fuse at the moment too.
Sometimes i am torn between just wanting to grab them and hold on tight, to spoil them, to make them happy, and raising them how they should be. None of them are stupid, they know that tempers are short and tensions are running high.
I hate it that my kids are confronted with so many split families, it seems like half their friends in school come from broken mariages, The other day in the car they were sitting in the back talking about one of my daughters friends, that she lives 1 week by her mum and the next by her dad....'But her parents get along' says my D. 'Why are they seperated then?' asks S, 'I dunno'....
I think about my childhood, I dont recall knowing about a single family where the parents were seperated, the first i can recall wasnt untill i was a teenager. I know times have changed, And perhapes because for the children of this generation its just a matter of fact that some parents seperate... that kids today may handle it beter. But i dont want to test that thesis on my kids.
titan, is your WW still denying what happened? Mine didnt deny it but didnt want to talk about it at all. For me the ongoing deception, deleting things to 'Protect me' would be a real big issue. It must also be really difficult to deal with someone that makes you feel like they are using Sex as leverage within the M. My WW doesnt make me feel that way, When we do, i still really enjoy it, its just a lot of the itme i cant really be bothered initiating. I guess i should ask my wife if its upsetting her.
On the upside, she has just told me that she has answered a whole raft of questions and that we should go through them tommorow. And in the last week or so she has organised a new IC, went and picked up some health test results, and even picked up and looked at the book 'Not Just Friends' which ive had lying on my bedside table for a couple of months. Now i no that im keen to see progress, and ill probably read more into it than there really is, but its nice to feel that glimmer of hope again.
Maybe this time she'll be able to help me keep it burning.
WW even wanted sex the other nite after her blowup-she told me "I am her problem" & then wonders why I don't want sex later.
The deleted items thing is a fresh thing that I may have read too much into. I may have been being reactionary because for me, this switch went off and its like this thing from 20 years ago just happened in my head for some reason (I suppressed). BUT she is totally lacking in the understanding part. She doesn't want to face it NOW, which in many ways I do understand.
That's my biggest issue though: I'm not really allowed to have these feelings, at least can't voice them. Of course she says things that sound supportive, but there is little if any action. The action I do see is that talking about it brings days of not speaking. For example, I never got the letter of answers, timelines, facts and feelings that she promised. And I asked for these things lovingly and as a support mechanism, not blame.
The sex thing is weird. She initiates now at least once every 2-3 days. That's almost unheard of. I know that she thinks if I'm getting sex I'll just be magically over it. Probably because historically the only issue has been that I like it more frequently than she does so often initiate, and frequently get rejected. Now I essentially never initiate. She thinks if we're having sex everyone is happy. I don't think its leverage really, sex is becoming more like an unspoken apology of sorts or band-aid she's trying to apply. [similar stories to 64fleet, she blows up, then asks for sex later]
She knows I am going through it now, and just that is helping me help myself, but ever so slowly.
My kids are a godsend. They give me purpose, resolve, and they don't even know it, but support. I am very protective of them, which fuels some continuing suppression, but in a totally positive way if that makes sense. They too are almost all from broken homes. Both my W and I come from parents who divorced, and all our siblings as well. I'm not even considering that (never did), but strangely, FWW implied recently that my current depressive tendencies could lead to that. I'm still not sure what that means. Iím still processing that.
Your profile doesnt mention if youve thought about getting either some IC or MC.
I dont think IC is the cureall that some do, But if you go into it with the right attitude and have a good IC that guides you in your self examination then IC could give you a forum where you can examine your feelings about what happened and whether its really had that much effect on your life, it may also help you deal with how your wife is behaving now.
Even if you decide to pass on IC, MC might be a good idea. Perhapes the very impetus of having a specific time and place to discuss what happened might encourage her. Having the MC there should make her feel a lot moe secure, a MC should not let you ambush her, and should not let her divert you. They will encourage you to open and continue a dialogue.
It sounds like youve realised that what happened has not really been fully resolved, and that some part of it is still sitting there festering away. Your W may not see that. She doesnt get to experience your flashbacks, your doubts, or your anguish when visiting your daughter. Sure you may have told her, but that doesnt mean she really understands what its like for you.
But it also has to be said that for her that is probably a chapter of her life that she would rather keep burried, that opening up that box and having to examine herself as she was then will dredge up a lot of bad feelings about herself.
I think if i was in your shoes, I would first try some IC, Maybe with some IC you can deal with your own issues about how your life has gone, what youve achieved, where things go from here...and your feelings about what happend back then. I would tell my W that since D has moved into that apartment complex it has been dredging up a lot of bad feelings, and that you are getting some IC to see if you can resolve them yourself. But that if you feel like thats getting nowhere or there are things you cannot resolve on your own that youll need her help.
Perhapes you can even get her to suggest that you go to MC as a safe place to deal with it together. If she suggest it then she is much more likely to be commited to seeing it through. People attach strongly to their own ideas, and can take some convincing to accept those of others.
What you do need to make clear to her is that there is still something there festering away, and that if it does not get cauterized somehow then eventually the poison will spread and infect everything around it.
On the upside though, if she is trying to use sex as a misplaced form of apology, then hey at least she's trying to appologise. Trying to make things better. She just need's to learn to recognise and treat the disease not the symptom.
The strange part is that she was upset that I went to the IC appointment. She said she understands, etc., but her non-verbal cues spoke volumes that she was not happy about it. She also told me that while I might feel better talking to her about what I am going through, it depresses her and she would rather I didnít.
Iím not an idiot. I know it must be extremely hard for her to talk about this. In my letter I acknowledged that, and that all I was seeking was for some understanding that I am even having these feelings, and I wanted to do it without it degenerating into an argument. I know that just talking about it makes me feel MUCH better, and that was key to long term peace for me. Now I know that the talking to her part just isnít going to happen. I actually understand that, and so I am resorting to the IC.
She keeps probing me about the IC, and I avoid it. If pressed, Iíll acknowledge that I have gone several times. Iím really screwed with way, because if I acknowledge the IC, she is upset and lets me feel that, and If I donít then I am being secretive about it. Really, I am just trying to spare her the impact of my issues while I try to deal with them on my own. Sheís essentially indicated she wonít help me on this, and Iím just done waiting for that help.
Iím sure there is going to be a backlash at some point. When it happens Iíll be mentally prepared. Itís inevitable, and when she finally gets it that will be a relief. But in the meantime, Iím doing whatever I can to take the pressure off myself and my expectations of her.
She doesnt like that your going to see an IC to help you sort out your feelings, but she doesnt want you to talk to her about them either.
You said that she acknowledges that you need to deal with them so what would she have you do?
Meh....this is a mans section, and were talking about womens 'Logic' i dont think anyone in here will be able to help you with that.
I would suggest that it may be better to be open about seeing your IC. When she starts probing about it answer her questions, but keep it 'matter of fact', dont allow yourself to be drawn into discussing what youve discussed with your IC. If may mean there is some fallout for you from it, but if theres anything we BS's should have learnt from all this is that dealing with the fallout from the truth is only half as bad as dealing with the fallout from deciet.
sounds to me you should get your ducks all in a row.
Your WW doesn't like the idea that she's losing any control over the sitch or you....
Youve probably heard it before mate, but Id suggest you stop worrying about her for a while and sort things out for yourself. It doesnt sound like your following the 180... Id have a good long hard think about doing it.
Normally if the WS is in favour of Reconciling and is showing remorse id advise against the 180 but where they still gas lighting, still in Contact with AP, or sitting atop the fence...or heck even screwing with your mind...then the 180 is IMHO the best path...
Youll need to get yourself sorted out and strong for the times ahead, and you cant do that with a hundered different sorts of crazy running treadmills in your head.
Wow, what a setback. I skipped work so we could talk. we're back to sqare one. She says we can't make eich other happy. Like she is justifying giving up. She says whatever she says I'll just twist and use against her. She doesn't get it at all. I don't even care about the A anymore as much as just being able to talk about my feelings about it.
See, I'm the guy who makes her see herself in a way she doesn't like. A way that's trampy. She says it makes her depressed, and now she says when I talk about it she gets suicidal. I don't really beleive that, I think she is just trying to play a card to get me to shut up. But, now I feel more obligated to do exactly that. She wins.
Bottom line is that she just isn't there for me emotionally. The sex has been great and we otherwise get along, but it's a very shallow relationship.
These human emotions are a bitch. I should be happy with a shallow relationship that involves a lot of sex, right?
You know when we just shut up to 'keep the piece'or when we dont do something 'to keeep the piece'...
He told me to ask myself whose piece am i keeping?
Is it my piece or someone else's?
Why should we stuff things down inside us to 'keep the piece' between us and our FWW if it means that we are then in inner turmoil ourselves?
Sure it doesnt apply in all situations but it certainly helps to stop and ask yourself this occasionally.
It's much better to keep the peace & stuff everything down. It'll all come out when I get the assualt rifle & flake out.
But one thing I have found is that I don't want a shallow relationship, even with lots of sex, I guess the question is what is it your looking for. I know I would rather find a balance in there somewhere. But she is the one that has to step out of her protective mode and open up some. Yet the SAb (my W has a simular history) exerts a strong control over this stuff. My W SAb pushes her away from the sex thing, but intenxifies the need for acceptance.
I should be happy with a shallow relationship that involves a lot of sex, right?
I got the same thing now, resigned. I guess if I was in high school instead of the backside of 40 I'd be OK w/that-but I'm gettin old.
but its still shallow-I hear about how people are soulmates, sharing everything, even couples who are in business together, people still holding hands when they are 80, etc
why don't i have that? Instead I wonder who my WW will start calling next, if she's gonna screw me over again someday, if the kids are actually mine etc etc.