Cheating Hurt by Infidelity
Betrayal Wayward Donations lying
Welcome

Forums

Guidelines

Find a Local Counselor

The Healing Library

Media

Contact Us
lies
cover
In Association with Amazon.com
Support
Infidelity -
-
Find a Local Couselor
You are not logged in. Login here or register.
[Register]
Newest Member: SoCalBoy (43217)

I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 4
thyme2go
♂ Member
Member # 12908
Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, February 8th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She said she deleted texts, but does that for all of them (and that is correct).

Deleting text messages is a huge red flag. Almost definitive proof. Why the need to ever delete messages? I never do.

She did say that if she was carrying anything on, she would do it in untracable ways, and would not be stupid enought to use her cell phone

She is taunting (gas-lighting) you -- she most likely has a secret cellphone.

Your gut (intuition) is almost never wrong.


Hang in there, bro.


-t2g


BH - no longer 48
3 DD's - (27, 24 and 17)
Divorced on 8/6/09

Posts: 9144 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: Eastern Washington
SourCherryDrops
♂ Member
Member # 25883
Default  Posted: 10:55 AM, February 10th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Guys,

For a while now ive been struggling with a growing ambivalence towards my WW and my M. My sex drive has dropped off substantially ... its not completely gone ... but now more often i just cant be bothered, previously i was always up for it. I also no longer having the need to be near her all the time, to cuddle, or even to catch up with her about what happened toady...its almost like im having to force myself to do these things.

My WW is saying all the right things, and she has stopped a lot of the activities that were not condusive to our M. Still i have the feeling that she isnt putting in as much effort to R as possible. She claims shes doing as much as she can at the momment, i guess im just dissapointed with what that is.

We have been slowly exploring the various affairs she had, Ive been slowly gaining a better understanding of each relationship, but my WW does not volunteer any info i have to ask for it.

Ive pretty much accepted that she currently is unwilling or unable to discuss the reasons for the A's, or what she was thinking and feeling at the time. I dont think she will be able to do this untill shes explored this some more in IC. So instead ive been concentrating on the details that let me describe, understand the types of relationships she had with each of the OM.

Im fairly certain that if we carried on as we are that everythig will be fine for the next few years...Im wondering if its my fear that she will never face up and explore the causes, feelings, and decisions that allowed her to do what she did, that is making me feel so ambivalent. I believe that if she doesnt then there is no guarantee that she wont repeat the behaviours in a few years ... that despite her current assurances that she would never do that again.

I guess what i want to know is, is this a common stage. is it something we all need to pass through... and if you dealt with similar feelings how did you resolve them, how did it work out for you?

[This message edited by SourCherryDrops at 10:57 AM, February 10th (Wednesday)]


Me BS 37, Her STBX 34, 1*ONS, 1*EA 1*PA/EA, 2*PA
Heading for D after 9 mths of R

Posts: 1468 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Europe
SerJR
♂ Member
Member # 14993
Default  Posted: 11:33 AM, February 10th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I also no longer having the need to be near her all the time, to cuddle, or even to catch up with her about what happened toady...its almost like im having to force myself to do these things.

I think what happens sometimes, is that we focus so much on the "breaking" of the affair and that frantic and immediate crisis management, that when it's finally cleared we get a bit of a breather to reflect on things and are sort of in that position of "now what?"

I'm glad to hear that she's pursuing IC - hopefully it will help her with the necessary introspection to be able to take the steps towards improving her self respect and the state of the marriage. I can understand that you feel an immediate need to know the answers to those questions - hopefully with some time, honesty, and effort she can find them.

It's common for information to not be volunteered, but the fact that she is willing to engage in a dialogue is a good thing.

One resource that you may find helpful is marriagebuilders.com - there's a lot of info there on emotional needs. Of course, you must go in with the understanding that it is her responsibility to identify and get her needs met (ie don't assume the blame for her responsibility). Affairs often stem from a fear of intimacy - kinda like not wanting to voice one's needs for fear of being judged, if that makes sense.

Anyway, there's no need to make a decision on whether or not you think your R will work out right now if you honestly don't know. At the same time, it's good that you are willing to tackle such challenging questions. Whatever happens, there is no easy fix - it will take both time and commitment from you.


Me: BH - Happily remarried.
Hope is never lost. It exists within you - it is real. It is not a force in and of itself - it is something that you create with every thought, action, and choice you make. It is a gift that you create for yourself.

Posts: 17093 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Further North than South
SourCherryDrops
♂ Member
Member # 25883
Default  Posted: 2:15 AM, February 11th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thankyou SerJr, your inputs allways very valuable and much appreciated.

It was a mistake i made early on in my questioning, expecting that she would be able to talk about what she was thinking at the time and how she was feeling...basically the things you want to know to help you understand how she could do that.

I dont even think she holds back on that sort of thing deliberately, Its something that she has supressed inside herself, compartmentalised if you will, that at the moment she does not feel strong enough to deal with....at least thats my take on if.

You may also be correct about the source of my ambivalence. The initial crisis of discovery is over. Weve started doing the things we need to reconcile, to find our way back together. Those intense emotions of the first months have subsided ... perhapes im just not used to not being stuck in the middle of washing machine and have forgotten what it feels like when things are calm.

No No decisions yet, i promised myself to do a proper review every 6 months ... but even if i did one now it would still come out in favour of R.


Me BS 37, Her STBX 34, 1*ONS, 1*EA 1*PA/EA, 2*PA
Heading for D after 9 mths of R

Posts: 1468 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Europe
thyme2go
♂ Member
Member # 12908
Default  Posted: 12:31 PM, February 11th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For a while now ive been struggling with a growing ambivalence towards my WW and my M. My sex drive has dropped off substantially ...

It does not bode well that you feel the ambivalence is growing. Or, are you starting to realize that the ambivalence is already there?

In some cases the very fact that a guy's W could even engage in an A is all it takes to kill our desire/love for her. It was a factor I was not able to overcome... I would rather be alone than to experience that trauma/drama once again.

While I can not say anything about the D process has been enchanting, I think my xw hit the easy button when she choose to file for D. She knew R would be a struggle for me to recover and in her words she "did not want to waste the time finding out".

My point being that neither path is easy but it takes 110% commitment one way or the other to recover.

With your increased ambivalence have you two considered MC?


-t2g


BH - no longer 48
3 DD's - (27, 24 and 17)
Divorced on 8/6/09

Posts: 9144 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: Eastern Washington
BrokenBadger
♂ Member
Member # 9278
Default  Posted: 2:08 PM, February 11th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Iíve been reading this thread a couple days, lots of great insight perspective. My current issue is that my W has been in contact with an xbf. She has called him her soulmate and other such nausea-inducing terms. Since late last summer there has been lots of phone conversations and huge numbers of texts. I happened to be in the house (unknown to her) when one of the conversations was going on. It was wrenching to say the least. Didnít care if she was married, thought she had the best of both worlds, etc. Sometime later through the use of a VAR I was really floored. Her language: Iím crazy in love with you, we should have kids together, Iím getting my ducks in a row to get out of here in 5-6 months. There was more but I canít remember now. As you can see this M is way deep in trouble. I confronted. She was defensive at first saying I donít do this, donít do that. And also angry that I know what she said to her boyfriend. Yeah, It should be OK that Iím in the dark about everything. She is the smartest person in the room. Then she started feeling bad and saying she should go out to the woods and shoot herself and she is a bad person, low self-esteem, etc. She claims that she entered into this M for it to be forever and still feels that way, but if I want a D that I must pull the trigger. She doesnít like to take blame for anything, ever, so this is her way to make me the bad guy to everybody she knows and she can be the victim in her friendís eyes. Our situation? No kids, mid-40ís, just a house and furniture for shared goods. My point is that both of us know she doesnít want to be in this anymore, so why not just get some paperwork going and get the split done. It seems that secretly she wants to take the steps to do something, but leave me in the dark to try to screw mw over somehow. She tells the xbf that sheís out of here in some length of time but tells me if I want a D that I have to pull the trigger. I may be trying to make sense of a non-sensical situation it appears. Also, she talks everyday about upcoming family plans and things to do to the house that make it appear everything is normal and we are good for the long term. Feels like quicksand. What do you guys think about this mess?

Posts: 210 | Registered: Jan 2006 | From: Hell
Lonerider
♂ Member
Member # 9205
Default  Posted: 2:18 PM, February 11th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BrokenBadger,

What do you want? R sounds difficult with your W, you don't have kids, how hurt will you be financially if you D?


BS me 43 years old
WS her 45 years old
married 14 years, together 20
2 kids
D-day 7/15/05

Posts: 4225 | Registered: Dec 2005 | From: western NY
thyme2go
♂ Member
Member # 12908
Default  Posted: 3:14 PM, February 11th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She was defensive at first saying I donít do this, donít do that. And also angry that I know what she said to her boyfriend.

Wow! That sounds familiar. Blatant disregard for you and your feelings.

What do you want? If it is a D then file. Filing does not make you the one responsible for the D. Get out of limbo land before it destroys you emotionally.

Hang in here.


-t2g


BH - no longer 48
3 DD's - (27, 24 and 17)
Divorced on 8/6/09

Posts: 9144 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: Eastern Washington
sportsfan
♂ Member
Member # 9918
Default  Posted: 3:22 PM, February 11th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I thought I had it bad BB...but not so much anymore...not after I just read your post.

I'm looking forward to reading your reply to Lonerider.

I can't empathize b/c I have kids and am older. BUT, I'm afraid, I'd be walking away if I had to walk in your shoes.


Posts: 1915 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From: PA
SourCherryDrops
♂ Member
Member # 25883
Default  Posted: 7:32 AM, February 12th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

t2g,

Yes we are in MC.

I pretty certain i know what triggeed the abivalence, I trace it back to her refusal to write out a Timeline for me. It came as quite a big shock at the time that she was unwilling/unable to do that for me.

Since then we agreed that i would write down questions and she would write out the answers to those she could answer and then after a day or two to absorb them we would talk through the answers and clear up any small periperal questions that came up.

Since then over the last 4-5 weeks ive handed out 4 sets of questions that make a total of 50 questions. I dont think thats going overboard...the questions are ones that have survived in my little book of things id really like to know about for a long time ( I review it regularly to see if i still really want to know )

She has returned one batch of answers.

It makes me feel like she is dragging her feet...is not really prepared to put the effort in. I guess my frustration is fueling my abivalence. or my growing abivalence is a protection of sorts against the frustration.

Its not just her not being timely about answering my written questions....it affects just about everything that is A related....she is dragging her feet, missing appointments, forgetting to do things, not finding time, or just too busy...

<vent>actually if i think abuout it she wasnt to fucking busy to find OM to fuck around with....</vent>

ok back under control again.....

Argh.... i dont want to have to get to the point where i have to go up to her and say if you dont start to pull finger you might well loosing me alltogether.

@BrokenBadger,

If i can offer any advice at the moment it would be to make sure that you go get your own ducks lined up in a row. Dont let her entrap you with a pregnancy while things are so shaky. and Spend the next few days and weeks figuring out exactly what it is you want.


Me BS 37, Her STBX 34, 1*ONS, 1*EA 1*PA/EA, 2*PA
Heading for D after 9 mths of R

Posts: 1468 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Europe
BrokenBadger
♂ Member
Member # 9278
Default  Posted: 8:51 AM, February 12th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LR, I want to get on with my life and, hopefully, in the future only deal with some girl who has honesty, integrity, trust, and respect. I have nothing of the kind right now and D is truly the only answer. Financially the only hit Iíll take is selling a house in this market, so not devastating by any measure. I just have this pessimistic feeling that since she wants to get on with her soul mate that sheíll try to screw me over somehow. Iíll just have to be on guard about that, no other way to handle that.
T2g, right on, blatant disregard. She has always wanted it to be all about her. She advertises something else to anyone thatíll listen, but for her to confront her own truth is not an option for her. Iím done with limboland and want a better life for myself. Time to get those ducks marching in a row!

Posts: 210 | Registered: Jan 2006 | From: Hell
thyme2go
♂ Member
Member # 12908
Default  Posted: 1:32 PM, February 12th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SourCherryDrops -- I understand your ambivalence now. I do not see a whole lot to work with in her current state of mind. She is still cake-eating and seemingly is putting in little or no effort to help the R process.

One has to wonder what it is she really wants. Do you think she may still be involved with OM?

Her failure to answer your questions is a huge red flag and IMHO, a deal breaker.


What are your boundaries regarding this matter?

BrokenBadger -- I think you are making the correct decision with your current situation. Not much to work with. Quack-quack.


-t2g


BH - no longer 48
3 DD's - (27, 24 and 17)
Divorced on 8/6/09

Posts: 9144 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: Eastern Washington
SourCherryDrops
♂ Member
Member # 25883
Default  Posted: 6:07 AM, February 15th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@t2g,

I dont know that i would describe my wife as cake-eating. Much more she is struggling to come to terms with her own shame and guilt about what she did, She is trying to avoid looking at it as much as possible. She is not denying it, or pretending it didnt happen, she seems even more baffled about why she let things get that far as i am.


There is really on 1 OM that i'd consider as evan a potential ongoing threat. The others all didnt carry any real strong emotional attachment and the relationships had declined or already ended pre D-Day. Can i guarantee that shes not still engaging with him... i guess not, there would be opportunity too, however it must also be said that there is also absolutely no evidence to suggest that she is. Including from the sources that she doesnt know i have at my disposal. So while i am no longer in a hard core investigation mode i do still maintain my verification checks.

I have reached that point where i can accept that i am not able to control what my wife does, If she wants to start up something with that OM again, or go out and find a new OM then she will, and there is nothing i can do to stop her. However she is very clear that doing so is an absolute deal breaker. That if she does i will sooner or later find out about it. If it ever comes to that then I will file.

I quite often advise people to sit down and think about what their own boundaries are. I found it was quite an enlightening and empowering process. Yes i have thought about what my boundaries are. I even picked out the ones that are absolute deal breakers.

For me one is lying about things that happen from now on in. That is a deal breaker. But i accept that in all reality she is probably going to occasionally slip up and either tell a lie of omission or an outright lie about what happened during her A's .... Note this does not mean that i dont have firm boundaries about what i am willing to accept .. I do. Just that if a do catch her in a lie then it is not an automatic deal breaker.

Another deal breaker for me is if i get the feeling that she is unwilling to put in any effort at all. At the moment she is still making an effort, sure its not as much as id like, and its very frustrating, but she is still putting one foot in front of the other.... we are still moving, just a lot slower than id like.

So far she has not refused to answer any questions, in fact she tells me that she has completed another set of answers... What she refused to do was to write out a full and complete timeline. Through my questions and then the follow up discussions i am essentially generating what i had expected from a timeline myself ... which is partly why its so hard for me to understand why she refused to do it in the first place.

[This message edited by SourCherryDrops at 6:08 AM, February 15th (Monday)]


Me BS 37, Her STBX 34, 1*ONS, 1*EA 1*PA/EA, 2*PA
Heading for D after 9 mths of R

Posts: 1468 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Europe
lostcause111
♂ Member
Member # 19109
Default  Posted: 8:50 AM, February 15th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I will sum up much of what has been going on in this thread.

Who cares of our WW are angry? They should be mad at themselves and if you you need to set boundaries and they dont like it .... well tough shit.


Posts: 934 | Registered: Apr 2008
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 8:59 AM, February 16th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For a while now ive been struggling with a growing ambivalence towards my WW and my M. My sex drive has dropped off substantially ...

its been like that for me for well over a year, possibly two now.

I think it is simply the after effect of the A for those who rug sweep. My WW cannot tell me why she did this, so the likelihood of it happening again is high-I don't want to invest in the M because of this, so you get what we have here-which is the way she wants it, IMO.
she is not willing to face the real reason she cheated, I'm not willing to try very hard either.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 10:41 AM, February 16th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Badger, I'm 40, two kids, etc etc-if you have no kids, simply cut & run-it just ain't worth it.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
SourCherryDrops
♂ Member
Member # 25883
Default  Posted: 5:13 AM, February 17th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

64Fleet,

what you say does ring true, i guess the ambivalence was triggered by her refusal to do something i asked that would help me in R. That it is fueld by her semingly spartan efforts in regards to doing the things we need to R. And that it is there to help shield me emotionally should things not work out.

The feeling that there really is no good reason why she wouldnt repeat the behaviour if she doesnt actually adress the root causes is something i have too. Ive told her this several times, including last night.

The point i tried to make was that prior to her A's she would have swore black and blue that she wouldnt do something like that. Now she is swearing black and blue that she wouldnt do something like that again... i ask Why Not? because now youve seen the repercussions...come on you knew what the repercussions would be like of doing something like this long before you actualyy did...

Im not worried that she would repeat the behaviour in the next year or so....i dont think she would be emotionally strong enough to go there...but after her own self image has been restored a little....why not?

So her less than desired commitment to resolving the cause, is making me ambivalent. I guess the thing that will help me gain more faith in our M again is a more concerted effort or more movement from her in resolving her issues.


Me BS 37, Her STBX 34, 1*ONS, 1*EA 1*PA/EA, 2*PA
Heading for D after 9 mths of R

Posts: 1468 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Europe
BrokenBadger
♂ Member
Member # 9278
Default  Posted: 8:05 AM, February 17th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

64Fleet,
I suspect you are correct, too much damage and distrust has built up to ever have a M that has a basis of honesty and integrity. That is what I need. I canít live my life looking over my shoulder to see if my W has wandered off the path we are trying to forge together. After what Iíve experienced with her there is no way I can have that solid foundation. A problem I have is getting caught up in the details of how itís all going to work out. Sell the house, move, job, etc. I suspect the best way is just forge ahead with the plans and take care of those details as they come up, otherwise it just ends up being a case of paralysis.

Posts: 210 | Registered: Jan 2006 | From: Hell
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, February 17th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The point i tried to make was that prior to her A's she would have swore black and blue that she wouldnt do something like that. Now she is swearing black and blue that she wouldnt do something like that again... i ask Why Not? because now youve seen the repercussions...come on you knew what the repercussions would be like of doing something like this long before you actualyy did...

Im not worried that she would repeat the behaviour in the next year or so....i dont think she would be emotionally strong enough to go there...but after her own self image has been restored a little....why not?

We can not control if our WW have another A. Nothing we can do will prevent it.

Transparency? No. They just get better at hiding things.
Honesty in the M? Dont make me laugh. WW are expert liars.
Remorse? Mostly they are sorry for they selfs.
Promises to not do this again? yeh. right.

If they decide to have A again. They will. There is nothing we can do to prevent it.

BUT.

We have become stronger from dealing with this shit. We WILL handle it much better if or when it happens again.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3086 | Registered: Sep 2007
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 12:35 PM, February 17th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The point i tried to make was that prior to her A's she would have swore black and blue that she wouldnt do something like that. Now she is swearing black and blue that she wouldnt do something like that again... i ask Why Not? because now youve seen the repercussions...come on you knew what the repercussions would be like of doing something like this long before you actualyy

I feel the same here, mine is simply sorry she got caught.

experience simply makes it easier for them next time, IMO-they know not to use the reg cell phone, buy a cheap disposable instead, make contact only on work phone/comp, which I can never see, etc etc


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
Topic Posts: 1000
Pages: 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 · 16 · 17 · 18 · 19 · 20 · 21 · 22 · 23 · 24 · 25 · 26 · 27 · 28 · 29 · 30 · 31 · 32 · 33 · 34 · 35 · 36 · 37 · 38 · 39 · 40 · 41 · 42 · 43 · 44 · 45 · 46 · 47 · 48 · 49 · 50

Return to Forum: I Can Relate This Topic is Full
adultry
Go to :
madness  
© 2002 - 2014 SurvivingInfidelity.com. All Rights Reserved.