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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 4
SourCherryDrops
♂ Member
Member # 25883
Default  Posted: 9:38 AM, December 16th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wont comment on SAb i have no experience.

But to lost causes original post.

Its something that ive really been trying to get my head around. My WW seems to see things complettely different to me. Sometimes it even has me wondering if im not as fogged up or misrepresentative of things as i think she sometimes is.

Last night at MC something that happened over 10 years ago came up. She said that we had talked about something and that she had told me how she felt about it. I on the other hand do not recall that at all...Ive been going over it all day and i cannot recall a single conversation like that. I recall a whole different set of worries and concerns that she voiced...when i mentioned those in the MC session she did agree that they were correct.

I cannot help but wonder if we really talked about it and i dont recall it. Or if she was feeling that way told me and i just didnt get it then or possibly even that she wasnt feeling that way at all hten and now is projecting more recent feelings back into our past....

Naturally the MC tells us that this sort of dissagreement about the details is normal...and yes ofcourse he is right... Ive done a lot of soul searching lately and come to the same conclusion, but Its not allways the case.

To more recent events where one can rule out the chances that the memory just isnt what it used to be. She tells me that she can see that im stewing inside or that i look at her with hate and disgust on my face, but thats not how im actually feeling ... I think something similar is happening to the way that WS's get in the habit of telling lies and continue telling them even about stupid little things that arent even relevant. I am starting to believe that my WW has got herself into the habit of seeing the worst in the situation (during her A's it helped validate her infidelity, allowed her to rationalise the irational. But now the A is over and were trying to walk together down the path to Reconciliation and the habit is still there.

Habits aare hard to break, and we both have some that we'd be better off without.


Me BS 37, Her STBX 34, 1*ONS, 1*EA 1*PA/EA, 2*PA
Heading for D after 9 mths of R

Posts: 1468 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Europe
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, December 16th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sour.

None of us remember every convo. More so the details of the convo. UNLESS there is some thing that sparks some kind of switch in us that makes our brains save it in long term memory.

I have heard said that every thing we experience is stored and may be that is so. But perhaps we cant find it. Sort of like a lost file.

We all remember those things we consider important or necessary. Things that have a high emotional content. It could be that you WW said some thing to you and it did not register high enuff with you to be saved where you can find it again. And may be she remembers it because it was high enuff emotionally for her to save it.

There are probably things you remember that she cant. And things she remember but you cant. That sounds normal to me.

It could also be that this convo happened but not quite the way she remembers it. The event might have been re written in her head in a way that makes her the good one and you the bad one. In other words re written to justify the A. And now unfortunately this re written memory she believes to be true. And that sucks.

So this is pretty typical IMHO.

How many of us BH hear from our WW that we were "never there"? And when we think back our memory is that we WERE there. We were working on the house. Helping kids with home work. So in our mind we were there but to our WW we were not.

How many of us hear that we were "emotionally disconnected"? But this was not what we remember. We were busy with life as were our WW. Life gets busy esp with kids. But with jobs and just day to day shit it is just impossible to remain emotionally joined at the hip to our W.

IMHO most of these WW memories are justifications. Blame shifting. And emotional abuse on their part.

If we were emotionally disconnected then so were they. If we were not there so were they. What is different is that they did the A. We did not. And now to make it worse they are blaming us for they A. This is a horrible thing for they to do.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3084 | Registered: Sep 2007
wonderingbull
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Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, December 16th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Razor I think you hit the nail on the head at least in the relationship I had with the ex...

When we were going to counseling and trying to R she'd bring up an event or conversation that I never even considered important or even remembered happening...

I swear, it was like she lived in some universe that was way out there....

I know one thing for sure... I cannot read minds and my ex always wanted to blame me for "not knowing" or "not understanding".... How the hell could I if I was never told......

I really believed I knew that woman as well as anyone in the world... It's obvious now that I never had a clue..... That was a complete surprise..

Sheesh.... It's amazing men and women are the same species....

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5893 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
Lonerider
♂ Member
Member # 9205
Default  Posted: 11:43 AM, December 16th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thyme2go,

TT - do you really believe that claim to be true? Is there really that many SAB IRL? Or maybe just an excuse?

I do, I'm not sure of the numbers, but it seems like a third of WS on Wayward have SAb in their background.

On our case, we know my DW's mother was physically, emotionally and mentally abusive. We're pretty sure (we meaning me, her IC and DW) that she was sexually abused as a toddler or infant, but we don't know if it was her mom, her dad, an uncle, the friendly family Priest or who. This really, really fucks a person up.

Her older sister has hinted around that she was abused. She also was into drugs, ran away, was a hooker for a while, has severe mental issues and was even committed after a suicide attempt.

There were rumors that sister's kids were molested, one of them is now a real mental case. It's a sick, fucked up family.

First, the whole betrayal/trust thing. When your parents can't protect you, and possibly betray you by molesting you, how important is trust? If you can't trust the most important people in your life, why trust at all, why be trustworthy? Trust ends up like wishing you could fly, something to ponder, but not apparent in the real world. After trust, you get all the lieing. It's what they grew up with.

Second, the survivor gets their esteem and self worth from being an object of sexual gratification. Sex doesn't mean much, it's a currency that can be used for attention and validation. Fidelity? If the abuser can't even stop from molesting a two year old, why should the survivor have any concept of fidelity.

What little self esteem is left is low, fragile and tied up in sexuality. The survivor can often feel that their spouse is too good for them, they're damaged goods and are most comfortable with other seriously damaged people, including other abusers.

Their sex life is fucked up. Because it's familiar, they can get excited about potentially abusive relationships, and may not feel it for a safe, comfortable relationship. Their spouse is too good for them to have sex with.

It's daunting and very hard work to have a relationship with a SAb survivor, things that you and I consider common sense make no sense to them. Things they do make no sense to me. My wife still doesn't understand why lying about emailing men without me knowing is wrong. If I didn't have a family, I might give up. If my daughters got involved in a SAb survivor, I'd pray that they broke up.

So yeah, not an excuse, but an explanation. They grew up broken with dysfunctional coping skills, and when life gets hard, the temptation to use those skills is immense.


BS me 43 years old
WS her 45 years old
married 14 years, together 20
2 kids
D-day 7/15/05

Posts: 4225 | Registered: Dec 2005 | From: western NY
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 11:48 AM, December 16th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If we were emotionally disconnected then so were they. If we were not there so were they. What is different is that they did the A. We did not. And now to make it worse they are blaming us for they A. This is a horrible thing for they to do.

yep-"she was lonely"-so the answer was to totally alienate me for the rest of our M.
now she must really be lonely, as I have disconnected from the M.

I tried to talk to her during the A, I knew something was up, but nothing would get thru to her.
I wonder if this was planned all along just to punish me somehow.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
Stop
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Member # 23564
Default  Posted: 2:34 PM, December 16th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I had to reread everything on this page because it seemed like you guys were talking about my wife and my marriage. Right down to the details.

Yes, my wife was abused, emotionally by a dysfunctional family of origin, she was also gang raped by several boys in the neighborhood when she was about 11 and was afraid to tell her parents because she thought it was her fault or that they would think so.

Later when she attempted suicide at 19, she was sexually used by her psychiatrist under drugs in his office.

So yes, from my experience and from what I have learned and read about sexual addiction, childhood abuse is a common thread.

Thank goodness for COSA and several books (for me) because I was tajking her behavior for rational and assuming it was hostile in my direction. That ramped up my defenses and I became pretty verbally abusive to her which seemed to make her worse. I've calmed down now and understand I have to look out for me and let she, God, and her addiction work out who she wants to be.

I doubt our mmarriage will survive but I will, thanks to all the information available, including this forum. I sure didn't think so 10 months ago however.

[This message edited by Stop at 2:35 PM, December 16th (Wednesday)]


Me: Recovering codependent BH
Her: Long term gambling addict, unadmitted,unrepentant,practicing sex addict.
I didn't cause it, I can't control it, I can't fix it.
"Healing starts when you start taking care of yourself and let go of

Posts: 90 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: Midwest
Lonerider
♂ Member
Member # 9205
Default  Posted: 2:39 PM, December 16th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome to the thread, Stop.

My wife was raped a few times, even by her first husband, but I figured it didn't add much.


BS me 43 years old
WS her 45 years old
married 14 years, together 20
2 kids
D-day 7/15/05

Posts: 4225 | Registered: Dec 2005 | From: western NY
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 3:16 PM, December 16th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

stop, I'd swear toonice, WAL & I all married sisters or something-their stories are so damn familiar...


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
shyguy
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Member # 18281
Default  Posted: 3:45 PM, December 16th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If my xw is lying about being abused sexaully then she is a complete sociopath. She did exhibit some traits of being abused. It helps me not to hate her since I believe she was abused. SAB surviviors can get help. Mine chose not to fix the problem.


Love stinks yeah yeah(J. Geils)

Posts: 5866 | Registered: Feb 2008 | From: tulsa
TwiceTorn
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Member # 13895
Default  Posted: 6:13 PM, December 16th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One of the things when looking for an MC is to find one that actually specializes in infidelity type situations. While the MC may ask questions and past conversations are brought up. The best thing is not to get to defensive about what he/she said, or over analyze it. One of the processes the MC might be doing is to establish trust with the WS. This way the WS is able to voice their feelings, and reasoning to someone that will listen and not judge them.

But the basic fundamental fact is the root cause of the infidelity has to be found before progress can be made into the relationship. While it might seem the MC is siding on one side. They do have a reason.


You've got to trust your instinct
And let go of regret
You've got to bet on yourself now star
'Cause that's your best bet~311 All mixed up


Posts: 3597 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Minnesota
SourCherryDrops
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Member # 25883
Default  Posted: 6:36 AM, December 17th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TT....Interesting point. I actually said to my wife that i think our MC actually likes her more than he likes me. Several times he has been quite pointed in talking to me, and praised the efforts of my W. Id even considered that it may be done deliberately.

I Completely agree with what your saying Razor about only remebering things that were emotionally important to us. What i guess im struggling to come to grips with is if the topic is that emotionally important to one of us then we need to bring the point up until that is clear to the other person. So I would be prepared to admit that it is possible that it came up in conversation once. But nothing more than that, if it had been a repeat theme then i would have recognised it as important....The topic/need did come up several years later and i dont dispute that she mentioned it then.

We talked about it again last night and she is still adament that she told me. So for the moment weve agreed to agree that our memories of what was said are different I will acknowledge that she was feeling that way and she can acknowledge that i didnt register that.

I also think your pretty spot on with your comments about relationships. It certainly applies to my situation.


Me BS 37, Her STBX 34, 1*ONS, 1*EA 1*PA/EA, 2*PA
Heading for D after 9 mths of R

Posts: 1468 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Europe
hurts
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Member # 9444
Default  Posted: 12:18 AM, December 21st (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey guys, I have been out a bit, just abad year and especially the last half. But I lurk alot and so enjoy the conversations.

Just wanted to put something out there. I turn 54 today. Almost my entire adult life I figured I would make it to 55. Lots of reasons, many health things in family history. Just not a whole lot of men in my line make it past the mid fifties.

Lots of stuff in my head, but this has bothered me all day, just the kind of stuff that passes the thought process of is this the last one. Not that I'm complaining, I have no real problems with it, but it does make me wonder.

Any of you other guys have a kind of picture of how long you'll be around.


Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?"
Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
--- Charles M. Schulz
SO if I check my pulse, and it is not there, do I get the day off?

Posts: 8381 | Registered: Jan 2006 | From: At Home
Lonerider
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Member # 9205
Default  Posted: 7:01 AM, December 21st (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Happy birthday hurts.

I haven't thought about how long I'll be around. I do want to hold my grandchildren and see them grow up, so I guess I'm hoping for my late 70's.


BS me 43 years old
WS her 45 years old
married 14 years, together 20
2 kids
D-day 7/15/05

Posts: 4225 | Registered: Dec 2005 | From: western NY
944man
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Member # 22077
Default  Posted: 11:01 AM, December 21st (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You know, after reading and being on SI for a while and going through what we all do. I've come to the conclusion the best thing to do is just kick the WW the f^#k out. Man up, have some balls and to the curb she goes. Looking back i dont' know why i even fought for a while, i guarantee i won't do it with the next one. Life is too short. Merry Christmas Brothers.


43 and loving it

Posts: 2320 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: US
Jimi40
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Member # 10909
Default  Posted: 11:53 AM, December 21st (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Happy BDay Hurts!!!

Everyday is borrowed as far as I'm concerned.

I figure I'll be checking out at the end of a pissed off hoof.


You've got nowhere to fall, when your back's to the wall.

Posts: 5524 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Niagara
wonderingbull
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Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 12:26 PM, December 21st (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Don't know how long I'll be around... Don't really care... I turn 50 in about 2 1/2 months and to me it's really just another day....

Happy Birthday hurts!

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5893 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
thyme2go
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Member # 12908
Default  Posted: 12:42 PM, December 21st (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Any of you other guys have a kind of picture of how long you'll be around.

Oh... about 121!

The best advice I have heard from a doctor is one who said the problems with our society is that we expect to only live to 65-70 and in turn live to that age. He said there is no reason we should not live past 100 and if we take care of ourselves and live with that expectation we will live much longer.

The power of the mind is astounding!

Up your expected age hurts!

And Happy Birthday!


-t2g


BH - no longer 48
3 DD's - (27, 24 and 17)
Divorced on 8/6/09

Posts: 9144 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: Eastern Washington
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 2:14 PM, December 21st (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My Dad is 71, still going strong & his mom is 91.

I wish I had kicked WW to the curb, but I just cannot do that to my kids. after they are grown, to the curb she goes, but right now the kids need both of us.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
TrulyReconciled
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Member # 3031
Default  Posted: 2:20 PM, December 21st (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Happy Birthday Hurts! I'm planning to live into my 100's


"In a time of deceit, telling the Truth is a revolutionary act."

Posts: 20485 | Registered: Dec 2003 | From: Hell and back, way back :o)
lingerdog
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Member # 24459
Default  Posted: 10:59 PM, December 21st (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Happy birthday Hurts. Hopefully with my new lifestyle I can hope for a long lifespan. At one point in my life I wondered if I would make it t thirty, being a big guy. I'm there now, and should I get myself healthy I figure I should live a good long while. My great grandfather lived to his nineties. My grandfather is 83 now, and looks like he's in his sixties. Still drives up to Tennessee to get his bibles occasionally. Get's up most Saturdays at around 4:30 to drive to a flea market an hour away and walk around giving out Bibles until around lunch time.


What lies behind us & what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
Oliver Wendell Holmes -Stolen from Uni's page

Posts: 8921 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Awesomeville
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