But to lost causes original post.
Its something that ive really been trying to get my head around. My WW seems to see things complettely different to me. Sometimes it even has me wondering if im not as fogged up or misrepresentative of things as i think she sometimes is.
Last night at MC something that happened over 10 years ago came up. She said that we had talked about something and that she had told me how she felt about it. I on the other hand do not recall that at all...Ive been going over it all day and i cannot recall a single conversation like that. I recall a whole different set of worries and concerns that she voiced...when i mentioned those in the MC session she did agree that they were correct.
I cannot help but wonder if we really talked about it and i dont recall it. Or if she was feeling that way told me and i just didnt get it then or possibly even that she wasnt feeling that way at all hten and now is projecting more recent feelings back into our past....
Naturally the MC tells us that this sort of dissagreement about the details is normal...and yes ofcourse he is right... Ive done a lot of soul searching lately and come to the same conclusion, but Its not allways the case.
To more recent events where one can rule out the chances that the memory just isnt what it used to be. She tells me that she can see that im stewing inside or that i look at her with hate and disgust on my face, but thats not how im actually feeling ... I think something similar is happening to the way that WS's get in the habit of telling lies and continue telling them even about stupid little things that arent even relevant. I am starting to believe that my WW has got herself into the habit of seeing the worst in the situation (during her A's it helped validate her infidelity, allowed her to rationalise the irational. But now the A is over and were trying to walk together down the path to Reconciliation and the habit is still there.
Habits aare hard to break, and we both have some that we'd be better off without.
None of us remember every convo. More so the details of the convo. UNLESS there is some thing that sparks some kind of switch in us that makes our brains save it in long term memory.
I have heard said that every thing we experience is stored and may be that is so. But perhaps we cant find it. Sort of like a lost file.
We all remember those things we consider important or necessary. Things that have a high emotional content. It could be that you WW said some thing to you and it did not register high enuff with you to be saved where you can find it again. And may be she remembers it because it was high enuff emotionally for her to save it.
There are probably things you remember that she cant. And things she remember but you cant. That sounds normal to me.
It could also be that this convo happened but not quite the way she remembers it. The event might have been re written in her head in a way that makes her the good one and you the bad one. In other words re written to justify the A. And now unfortunately this re written memory she believes to be true. And that sucks.
So this is pretty typical IMHO.
How many of us BH hear from our WW that we were "never there"? And when we think back our memory is that we WERE there. We were working on the house. Helping kids with home work. So in our mind we were there but to our WW we were not.
How many of us hear that we were "emotionally disconnected"? But this was not what we remember. We were busy with life as were our WW. Life gets busy esp with kids. But with jobs and just day to day shit it is just impossible to remain emotionally joined at the hip to our W.
IMHO most of these WW memories are justifications. Blame shifting. And emotional abuse on their part.
If we were emotionally disconnected then so were they. If we were not there so were they. What is different is that they did the A. We did not. And now to make it worse they are blaming us for they A. This is a horrible thing for they to do.
When we were going to counseling and trying to R she'd bring up an event or conversation that I never even considered important or even remembered happening...
I swear, it was like she lived in some universe that was way out there....
I know one thing for sure... I cannot read minds and my ex always wanted to blame me for "not knowing" or "not understanding".... How the hell could I if I was never told......
I really believed I knew that woman as well as anyone in the world... It's obvious now that I never had a clue..... That was a complete surprise..
Sheesh.... It's amazing men and women are the same species....
TT - do you really believe that claim to be true? Is there really that many SAB IRL? Or maybe just an excuse?
I do, I'm not sure of the numbers, but it seems like a third of WS on Wayward have SAb in their background.
On our case, we know my DW's mother was physically, emotionally and mentally abusive. We're pretty sure (we meaning me, her IC and DW) that she was sexually abused as a toddler or infant, but we don't know if it was her mom, her dad, an uncle, the friendly family Priest or who. This really, really fucks a person up.
Her older sister has hinted around that she was abused. She also was into drugs, ran away, was a hooker for a while, has severe mental issues and was even committed after a suicide attempt.
There were rumors that sister's kids were molested, one of them is now a real mental case. It's a sick, fucked up family.
First, the whole betrayal/trust thing. When your parents can't protect you, and possibly betray you by molesting you, how important is trust? If you can't trust the most important people in your life, why trust at all, why be trustworthy? Trust ends up like wishing you could fly, something to ponder, but not apparent in the real world. After trust, you get all the lieing. It's what they grew up with.
Second, the survivor gets their esteem and self worth from being an object of sexual gratification. Sex doesn't mean much, it's a currency that can be used for attention and validation. Fidelity? If the abuser can't even stop from molesting a two year old, why should the survivor have any concept of fidelity.
What little self esteem is left is low, fragile and tied up in sexuality. The survivor can often feel that their spouse is too good for them, they're damaged goods and are most comfortable with other seriously damaged people, including other abusers.
Their sex life is fucked up. Because it's familiar, they can get excited about potentially abusive relationships, and may not feel it for a safe, comfortable relationship. Their spouse is too good for them to have sex with.
It's daunting and very hard work to have a relationship with a SAb survivor, things that you and I consider common sense make no sense to them. Things they do make no sense to me. My wife still doesn't understand why lying about emailing men without me knowing is wrong. If I didn't have a family, I might give up. If my daughters got involved in a SAb survivor, I'd pray that they broke up.
So yeah, not an excuse, but an explanation. They grew up broken with dysfunctional coping skills, and when life gets hard, the temptation to use those skills is immense.
yep-"she was lonely"-so the answer was to totally alienate me for the rest of our M.
now she must really be lonely, as I have disconnected from the M.
I tried to talk to her during the A, I knew something was up, but nothing would get thru to her.
I wonder if this was planned all along just to punish me somehow.
Yes, my wife was abused, emotionally by a dysfunctional family of origin, she was also gang raped by several boys in the neighborhood when she was about 11 and was afraid to tell her parents because she thought it was her fault or that they would think so.
Later when she attempted suicide at 19, she was sexually used by her psychiatrist under drugs in his office.
So yes, from my experience and from what I have learned and read about sexual addiction, childhood abuse is a common thread.
Thank goodness for COSA and several books (for me) because I was tajking her behavior for rational and assuming it was hostile in my direction. That ramped up my defenses and I became pretty verbally abusive to her which seemed to make her worse. I've calmed down now and understand I have to look out for me and let she, God, and her addiction work out who she wants to be.
I doubt our mmarriage will survive but I will, thanks to all the information available, including this forum. I sure didn't think so 10 months ago however.
[This message edited by Stop at 2:35 PM, December 16th (Wednesday)]
My wife was raped a few times, even by her first husband, but I figured it didn't add much.
But the basic fundamental fact is the root cause of the infidelity has to be found before progress can be made into the relationship. While it might seem the MC is siding on one side. They do have a reason.
I Completely agree with what your saying Razor about only remebering things that were emotionally important to us. What i guess im struggling to come to grips with is if the topic is that emotionally important to one of us then we need to bring the point up until that is clear to the other person. So I would be prepared to admit that it is possible that it came up in conversation once. But nothing more than that, if it had been a repeat theme then i would have recognised it as important....The topic/need did come up several years later and i dont dispute that she mentioned it then.
We talked about it again last night and she is still adament that she told me. So for the moment weve agreed to agree that our memories of what was said are different I will acknowledge that she was feeling that way and she can acknowledge that i didnt register that.
I also think your pretty spot on with your comments about relationships. It certainly applies to my situation.
Just wanted to put something out there. I turn 54 today. Almost my entire adult life I figured I would make it to 55. Lots of reasons, many health things in family history. Just not a whole lot of men in my line make it past the mid fifties.
Lots of stuff in my head, but this has bothered me all day, just the kind of stuff that passes the thought process of is this the last one. Not that I'm complaining, I have no real problems with it, but it does make me wonder.
Any of you other guys have a kind of picture of how long you'll be around.
I haven't thought about how long I'll be around. I do want to hold my grandchildren and see them grow up, so I guess I'm hoping for my late 70's.
Everyday is borrowed as far as I'm concerned.
I figure I'll be checking out at the end of a pissed off hoof.
Happy Birthday hurts!
Oh... about 121!
The best advice I have heard from a doctor is one who said the problems with our society is that we expect to only live to 65-70 and in turn live to that age. He said there is no reason we should not live past 100 and if we take care of ourselves and live with that expectation we will live much longer.
The power of the mind is astounding!
Up your expected age hurts!
And Happy Birthday!
I wish I had kicked WW to the curb, but I just cannot do that to my kids. after they are grown, to the curb she goes, but right now the kids need both of us.