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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 4
thyme2go
♂ Member
Member # 12908
Default  Posted: 11:09 AM, November 4th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For me that was the hardest thing to come to grips with, just the fact that WW could do this to me, after all we had been through together, and just throw it away like I was a wasted piece of gum.

'dog... even when I knew, I did not want to believe it. I was M'ed for over 22.5 years on Dday.

L'rider -- I do not think being upfront is warranted in our situatiions. SCD is correct.


-t2g


BH - no longer 48
3 DD's - (27, 24 and 17)
Divorced on 8/6/09

Posts: 9145 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: Eastern Washington
wonderingbull
♂ Member
Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 11:14 AM, November 4th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree that you should play this close to the vest...

The keylogger will most likely either acquit or convict...

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5895 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 11:18 AM, November 4th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, yes. Don't confront without plenty of evidence. Don't make your job harder than it has to be.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
Lonerider
♂ Member
Member # 9205
Default  Posted: 11:29 AM, November 4th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I admit I'm not great at the 180, it's a shitty situation.

She's not good at lying, I guess I'm letting her know she's in deep shit if this continues. I'm trying to keep her emotional needs met by telling her what I'm feeling.

If I have to, I'll copy the cell phone logs and emails and send them to his wife.

I guess I'm trying a plan A right now, I know if I told her to never contact the old bf she'd resent me, and continue the contact. I'm letting her know I'm afraid of the slope she's on, and what she'll lose. I want her to come to the conclusion that she's best off never contacting him again.

In the meantime I gather data.

If I get proof that she's starting an A, despite her denial and my fears, I'll do the 180, talk to her therapist, and lawyer up.

[This message edited by Lonerider at 11:31 AM, November 4th (Wednesday)]


BS me 43 years old
WS her 45 years old
married 14 years, together 20
2 kids
D-day 7/15/05

Posts: 4225 | Registered: Dec 2005 | From: western NY
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 11:44 AM, November 4th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess I'm letting her know she's in deep shit if this continues.

Do you feel like she shouldn't be in deep shit for what she's already done? Or are you just acknowledging here that you're willing to accept how far she's already gone as long as it doesn't go any farther and she's willing to stop now?

I mean, dude, I find her behavior unfathomable from an already-WW. If she'd never tumbled down the slippery slope before, I'd be more understanding, but this is a woman who's already been through this, plus D-day and is jumping right back on the slide again.

But I also understand that we've all got different thresholds for putting up with shit if there are other parts of our life we feel like we need to defend, so I don't want you to think that I'm accusing you of being a wuss or anything for not kicking her to the curb already.

I just want to know that you know where your absolute boundaries are.

And I understand if you say to me that even if it turns out she's been fucking around again that you're not going anywhere, you understand you can't control her and despite that fact, you're not going to leave. I understand that. I've got kids I'm maintaining a launching pad for myself and understood from the beginning that I wouldn't leave even if my wife started serially cheating (as long as she was completely discreet) because I valued preserving the home so highly.

We all have our own goals and our own "fuck you" thresholds. Just know where yours are.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
Lonerider
♂ Member
Member # 9205
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, November 4th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do you feel like she shouldn't be in deep shit for what she's already done? Or are you just acknowledging here that you're willing to accept how far she's already gone as long as it doesn't go any farther and she's willing to stop now?

I can accept that she'd want to catch up on her old bf. I can accept that he'd be flirty and flattering. I can accept that she would feel sexy after being flirted with.

If she's cybering or having phonesex that may be too much, If she's meeting up with him, that too much.

I mean, dude, I find her behavior unfathomable from an already-WW. If she'd never tumbled down the slippery slope before, I'd be more understanding, but this is a woman who's already been through this, plus D-day and is jumping right back on the slide again.

She's got low self esteem and craves external validation. Her being an unhealed SAb survivor just complicates things. I've pointed out to her that she's very vulnerable that way, I want to her to think about what she's opening herself up to.

But I also understand that we've all got different thresholds for putting up with shit if there are other parts of our life we feel like we need to defend, so I don't want you to think that I'm accusing you of being a wuss or anything for not kicking her to the curb already.

I know, if she hasn't gone too far, and realizes she's about to fuck up and I stop her, good.

If she goes too far after I've warned her and expressed my concern, well, that may be the end.

I just want to know that you know where your absolute boundaries are.

And I understand if you say to me that even if it turns out she's been fucking around again that you're not going anywhere, you understand you can't control her and despite that fact, you're not going to leave. I understand that. I've got kids I'm maintaining a launching pad for myself and understood from the beginning that I wouldn't leave even if my wife started serially cheating (as long as she was completely discreet) because I valued preserving the home so highly.

We all have our own goals and our own "fuck you" thresholds. Just know where yours are.

My daughters are my biggest concern right now. I know that if I dropped dead tomorrow, my wife would find a man in months, I don't think she's strong enough to be alone. If we separated, she'd probably find a man in months.

I worry about what sort of man would want a woman with a 13 year old and an 8 year old daughter. I'm sure some would be good guys, but I worry that some would be pedophiles.

In the meantime, pay down debt, gather evidence, prepare my daughters for life and be ready for the worst.

thanks wal, it's good to have someone I can talk to about this.


BS me 43 years old
WS her 45 years old
married 14 years, together 20
2 kids
D-day 7/15/05

Posts: 4225 | Registered: Dec 2005 | From: western NY
resigned
♂ Member
Member # 12903
Default  Posted: 2:39 PM, November 4th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry to see what you're going through Lonerider.

Just an outside observation, get ready for the kick in the gut. I think you're in denial. Think about the consequences to her if you get the proof you need. I'm really sorry you're going through this again.


Posts: 453 | Registered: Dec 2006
shyguy
♂ Member
Member # 18281
Default  Posted: 2:44 PM, November 4th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My ex is an SAB. You need to get "The Courage to Heal". It is written for female SAB by female SAB. It gave me hope. My ex refused to go to IC for her SAB issues.


Love stinks yeah yeah(J. Geils)

Posts: 5866 | Registered: Feb 2008 | From: tulsa
Lonerider
♂ Member
Member # 9205
Default  Posted: 3:17 PM, November 4th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have Allies in Healing.

My wife is afraid to deal with her SAb, and her therapist isn't sure she's strong enough to deal with it.


BS me 43 years old
WS her 45 years old
married 14 years, together 20
2 kids
D-day 7/15/05

Posts: 4225 | Registered: Dec 2005 | From: western NY
TwiceTorn
♂ Member
Member # 13895
Default  Posted: 9:35 PM, November 4th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hate to say it Lonerider, my XWW was Sab from her father, and I see the pattern. With out her dealing with it, shes still a victim of it. She is stunted at that mentality of thinking, because she has never allowed herself to move beyond it.

It sucks plain and simple, there is no way you can be her shining knight to show her the light. This is decision she has to make by herself, for herself.


You've got to trust your instinct
And let go of regret
You've got to bet on yourself now star
'Cause that's your best bet~311 All mixed up


Posts: 3597 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Minnesota
SourCherryDrops
♂ Member
Member # 25883
Default  Posted: 6:11 AM, November 5th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I cant really comment about dealing with SAb Survivors, i have no experience in that direction. but one line that cought me and sounded weird when i read it was

I'm trying to keep her emotional needs met by telling her what I'm feeling.

Are you sure that this is an emotional need of hers? Is it really an important emotional need of hers?

My understanding of emotional needs is that they mainly deal with what we want/need from the other person.

you did however mention


She's got low self esteem and craves external validation

Now that sounds like an important emotional need of hers to me.

My WW has some of that too...that and the need to feel listened too and understood. ...sure part of talking is sharing my feelings...but what she 'needs' is me to listen to her and show that i understand.

I reckon recognising what our reall emotional needs are is a big step in the right direction.

...now wheres the salt...no a buckets fine...this should be served with more than a pinch of salt....


Me BS 37, Her STBX 34, 1*ONS, 1*EA 1*PA/EA, 2*PA
Heading for D after 9 mths of R

Posts: 1468 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Europe
Lonerider
♂ Member
Member # 9205
Default  Posted: 7:36 AM, November 5th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NC Pending

Alright, the latest. Last night DW told me she has to make a clean break of it with her xbf, he wants a level of friendship that she doesn't (ie with benefits), and he's being persistent. Yay!

I didn't jump up and do a happy dance, but I did give her a condensed NC spiel, and offered to be there when she calls. She said it wasn't necessary, so we'll see.

I did get the keylogger working too, and she has off today, so we'll see what happens. I'm hoping to get the pw to her secret yahoo account, and use that to get to her other secret yahoo account.

She's either realized she's in over her head, or going deep underground. We'll see.


Are you sure that this is an emotional need of hers? Is it really an important emotional need of hers?

My WW has some of that too...that and the need to feel listened too and understood. ...sure part of talking is sharing my feelings...but what she 'needs' is me to listen to her and show that i understand.

I reckon recognising what our reall emotional needs are is a big step in the right direction.

SCD, some of that came from my IC and our MC, our therapist said I needed to tell her more often how I feel, and she responds best when I'm upfront. When we had a sexual dry spell, my telling her I needed some got her in the mood. It also made it easier for me to explain why I was giving her the third degree, which may have helped her get in the right mindframe. I guess I'll know more tomorrow.


BS me 43 years old
WS her 45 years old
married 14 years, together 20
2 kids
D-day 7/15/05

Posts: 4225 | Registered: Dec 2005 | From: western NY
dontknowwhyme
♂ Member
Member # 21587
Default  Posted: 9:20 AM, November 5th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why are we always the last ones to see what our WW's are/were doing??

Because I was naive and full of trust. I have joked that prior to DDay my wife could have said she was going to the moon for lunch and I would have said "have a safe trip".

I am ashamed of how much slipped by me. What I do know though. It will never ever happen again. She has lost 100% trust forever. That is her loss.

[This message edited by dontknowwhyme at 9:21 AM, November 5th (Thursday)]


BS 38
FWW 37 (fireandice)
Married 13 Years - Together 20
D-Day1:Jan 08 (EA OM#1)
D-Day2:8-15-08 (EA/PA OM#2)
DS12, DS9
D-Day3:11-3-10
Divorced 1-27-11
Remember, you don't drown from being thrown in the water. You drown from staying in it.

Posts: 937 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Ohio
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 9:40 AM, November 5th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

dontknowwhyme

Do not feel bad. Pretty much every one here has done and felt the same way. Trust is not a crime. Neither is giving you heart to some one.

Raping that trust and breaking that heart ought to be the crime.

Pre Dday I wanted SO MUCH to believe the obvious lies she told. That I made me self believe them. I was the KING of denial. Because I did not want to believe the truth. I wanted the truth but I did not want the truth to be the truth. I wanted the truth to be what I wanted it to be.

prior to DDay my wife could have said she was going to the moon for lunch and I would have said "have a safe trip".

Me to. Actually this going to the moon thing would have been some what more likely than the line of shit I made me self believe.

Now I could tell you to not beat you self up. That you did nothing wrong. And that you WW is the one that should feel shame.

The problem is that I do not follow my own advice in this. In this. Even 12 years past Dday #1. I still feel shame in my own stupidity.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3088 | Registered: Sep 2007
SourCherryDrops
♂ Member
Member # 25883
Default  Posted: 6:55 PM, November 5th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My trust prior to DDay was total and complete.

She showed me a gift, a really expensive one...several months sallary worth to me...and i accepted that it was from a rich friend of a frient that had given us some nice furniture previously...

I happily waved goodbye to her when she went on the trip and had a ONS...i probably even said have fun...

I aksed about OM when she told me her 'friend' was having health problems...

I sat at home and looked after the kids many many nights so she could go out with friends, ok on this one i had mentioned that i didnt think it was healthy and that i would like to be invited along occasionally...i got invited once.

I didnt bat an eye when she stayed out until 4am...in fact id let her sleep in the next morning.

I was happy for her that she was able to spend time with her 'old friends' (we'd lived out of the country for 7 years and she had missed the actual friends quite a bit)

But really how the Fcuk could have been so nieve, for so long....

Perhapes one of the reasons that i was so blind to the possibility was that i have never had any direct experience with it...my parents were together until my mother passed...my dad will probably never remarry. My uncles and aunts are all still together...my parents friends are are all still together... I have a couple of 2nd or 3rd cousins whose M ended in divorce...but i was out of the country during those years...Ive just never really seen infidelity first hand...

The other i guess is that i just could never of imagined that this person that i loved...that i knew to be so wonderfull would do anything that would hurt me this bad, would put our entire family and everything that we had built up together over the last 14 years on the line for a 'kick'

And now...now ill never be able to trust her again like that...not so fully...so completely....ill try...but it wont be exactly the same...and that sux.


Me BS 37, Her STBX 34, 1*ONS, 1*EA 1*PA/EA, 2*PA
Heading for D after 9 mths of R

Posts: 1468 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Europe
mickey321
♂ Member
Member # 25725
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, November 6th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I need some help with this one.

Background: WW had 5 year LTA with co-worker (not in same office but same company). LTA was over for roughly 2 years before I found out. D-
day 4 months ago.

I don't consider myself a violent person. I've never really had the inclination to want to hurt anyone. Now, I want to visit some greivous bodily harm on the OM.

I do know I'm not going to actually do it, but the thoughts (detailed) are kind of scaring me.

Did any of you guys have the same thing working and if so, how did (or did you) get past it?


BH 44 Me
WW 39
DS 9 years old
D-Day 03July2009
R - Trying

Posts: 58 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Midwest
Lonerider
♂ Member
Member # 9205
Default  Posted: 10:09 AM, November 6th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mickey,

Yeah, that's a normal experience, I had some evil thoughts about sniping at the OM, but they remained in my head.

You've got a DS, one of his parents has to be the stable, honorable one, and you can't be it if you're in jail.

How has your WW been treating you?


BS me 43 years old
WS her 45 years old
married 14 years, together 20
2 kids
D-day 7/15/05

Posts: 4225 | Registered: Dec 2005 | From: western NY
dontknowwhyme
♂ Member
Member # 21587
Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, November 6th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mickey,

I think it is very normal. I have had plenty of thoughts of hurting OM.


BS 38
FWW 37 (fireandice)
Married 13 Years - Together 20
D-Day1:Jan 08 (EA OM#1)
D-Day2:8-15-08 (EA/PA OM#2)
DS12, DS9
D-Day3:11-3-10
Divorced 1-27-11
Remember, you don't drown from being thrown in the water. You drown from staying in it.

Posts: 937 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Ohio
mickey321
♂ Member
Member # 25725
Default  Posted: 10:27 AM, November 6th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She's trying. And yeah, I'm not going to jail for the POS. It's just the thoughts are so vivid, it's creeping me out.


BH 44 Me
WW 39
DS 9 years old
D-Day 03July2009
R - Trying

Posts: 58 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Midwest
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 10:47 AM, November 6th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My fav came from the "Pit and the Pendulum".

Or castrating OM and keeping his balls in a jar on my desk.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


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