Cheating Hurt by Infidelity
Betrayal Wayward Donations lying
Welcome

Forums

Guidelines

Find a Local Counselor

The Healing Library

Media

Contact Us
lies
cover
In Association with Amazon.com
Support
Infidelity -
-
Find a Local Couselor
You are not logged in. Login here or register.
[Register]
Newest Member: Depressed4ever (43230)

I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS"s III
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 11:12 AM, August 12th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

1stwife -

My question is why isn't attention and ego stroking from the BS enough? I have made a conscious effort throughout my marriage to build my WH up and he has certainly had my attention. What is it about the OW/AP that makes this different? What attention does the WS get from AP that they don't get from BS? Why are compliments from BS brushed off and then sought from AP?

For some, it may be as 1DLW shares. Hearing positives from someone who does not have to say those things.

For me it was a bit different. There was a combination of factors. It started with my own lack of confidence in myself. Yes, positives from my BW were greatly appreciated. But let's face it. Day to day life with your spouse will never be 100% compliments. Your spouse will forget to do something that was important to you. They will have habits that annoy you like crazy. It ain't fantasy, it's reality.

Ever hear the saying "One Aw Shit erases one thousand Attaboys"? That's how it felt. Each time my BW was critical of me, I let it erode my identity. I let it belittle me bit by bit. She could shower me with praise, but that one critical thing I screwed up would eat at me.

Contrast that to a person with whom you have no direct commitments. No parental responsibilities. No shared financial obligations. Just time spent focusing on making each other feel better about themselves. No "Aw Shits". Only "Attaboys". It draws you in as strongly as if you were on a buzz from alcohol or high on drugs.

Then add in that because I didn't believe in myself, I felt I would lose every conflict I entered. So that's why I didn't tell my BW what of her ways of responding to me hurt the most. I was afraid she would always have a valid reason why she was right and I was wrong. So I went silent and just let the angst build inside of me.

On the other side, xMOW would of course side with me. Say things like "how can she not see how great you are" or "why would she let something so small get her so pissed at you?".

The whole thing then just snowballs, further and further away from reality.

The fix has to come from within the WS. I had to find my own strength and identity so that when anyone would be critical of me, I didn't let that criticism define me. I had to learn that it's ok to disagree, and it doesn't always mean I lose. As I have built those skills, my happiness in the M and with my family has increased.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 11:26 AM, August 12th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BreathingAgain -

How do I talk to him about this? How do I know that he has really “seen the light” about her and not just telling me what he thinks I want to hear? How did you “rewire your brain” after you came out of the fog?

First, welcome to SI. I hope that you can continue to find the support you need form this tremendous resource.

Second, I have to disagree with the way you are looking at things. Getting the WS to see the OP in a bad light has very little chance of "affair-proofing" the WS. At best, all it does is keeps the WS from making advances on that same OP. At worst, it will crush the spirit of the WS and they will dig in their heels about the good qualities of the OP to prevent themselves from looking like slime.

Instead, the focus has to be on why the WS made the choice to enter an A in the first place. The core cause of the A is not the OP. It is the series of choices the WS made to turn outside the M to fill a gap within themselves.

Among the questions I had to answer for myself after the A were:

Why was I not strong enough to feel good in the face of negative feedback?

Why was I unable to simply tell my BW about things she did that hurt me?

Why did I not see the boundaries before I crossed them and stop before they were breached?

What was it that I did that prevented my BW from being happy? Why did I not do those thing for her that would make it easy for her to be happy in our M?

Of course, there are many more that build from these. But if you focus on the OP, all you do is stop the issue for that OP. The next person to toss a compliment in and toss morals out will start the cycle again. Focus on the choices your WS controlled and address those, and it won't matter who the OP is - boundaries will not be crossed again.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
BreathingAgain
♀ New Member
Member # 25031
Default  Posted: 11:48 AM, August 12th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ListeningClosely

Thank you for your reply. It's pretty much the same thing the MC says.

I totally understand what you mean about the steps he needs to take and the work he needs to do.

All I have read, here and in books, says that it is vital that the WS figures out exactly how they got into the affair. I know that HIS issues are the most important for him to deal with.

But given our financial situation my H will always be a target for a certain type of woman. Isn't it important for him to be able to spot these women and to understand the ways they go about "targeting" men?


Posts: 26 | Registered: Aug 2009
1stwife
♀ Member
Member # 23926
Default  Posted: 12:52 PM, August 12th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Okay, one more question please.

Why does WH continually try make me the bad guy? He sent me an e-mail that I didn't find funny. It was silly, but I'm just not in that frame of mind with him right now. He took great offense even when I apologized. He's still off-loading on me like I'm the one who's wrong.

I don't think my WH feels guilt at this point, so why not just leave me alone? Why does he call just to pick at me for things? Yesterday it was "What did you do with my black belt?". It was hanging right where I told him in plain sight.

Is he just trying to make me suicidal 'cause it's working. I've never felt so awful, so hopeless.


I finally faced the fact that we're incompatible. I'm a Virgo and he's an asshole.

Free at last, free at last, thank God Almighty, I'm free at last!


Posts: 190 | Registered: May 2009
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 2:07 PM, August 12th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BreathingAgain -

Isn't it important for him to be able to spot these women and to understand the ways they go about "targeting" men?

Maybe. But I still think based on my own experience that this is about your WH ensuring that he is facing his own weaknesses.

I know in my case, it's not about a certain "type of woman". It's about the fact that any woman who would have praised me over and over would have gotten my attention before. Now, I have the ability to say no regardless of the motive of the OW to pursue me.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 2:16 PM, August 12th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

1stwife -

Why does WH continually try make me the bad guy?

Because you were the one who took his "high" away from him. A drug addict gets ticked at the person who flushes the Cocaine down the toilet. An alcoholic gets angry at the spouse who pours all the booze down the drain. And a WS gets enraged at the BS who shuts down the A and takes away the "good feelings".

This is critical to understand. DO NOT allow your WH's reactions to impact how you see yourself. You are not who he defines you to be. You are the same person you have always been. It is your WH who is looking at the world as if everything were seen through a fun house mirror. Until he detoxes from the A and starts to understand the impact of his choices, he will continue to point blame and anger away from himself. You know a WS has turned the corner when they accept accountability for their own actions.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
1stwife
♀ Member
Member # 23926
Default  Posted: 2:28 PM, August 12th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks L_C. Unfortunately I have not been able to shut down the A. He denies they are anything but "friends" and I am just so jealous he can't have any women "friends".

But you are most likely right. I called him on his bs. The thing is I haven't said much else about any of it to him.

I do know that he is delusional. That probably belongs on another thread.

I'm so weary of the drama and his crap. I just wish he'd leave and leave me alone.

Thanks


I finally faced the fact that we're incompatible. I'm a Virgo and he's an asshole.

Free at last, free at last, thank God Almighty, I'm free at last!


Posts: 190 | Registered: May 2009
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 2:40 PM, August 12th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

1stwife -

Have you started a 180? It would both flush our your WH and force him to make solid choices as well as help you feel better about yourself.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
1stwife
♀ Member
Member # 23926
Default  Posted: 2:59 PM, August 12th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, but I'll keep trying.


I finally faced the fact that we're incompatible. I'm a Virgo and he's an asshole.

Free at last, free at last, thank God Almighty, I'm free at last!


Posts: 190 | Registered: May 2009
Debs
♀ Member
Member # 21933
Default  Posted: 8:03 PM, August 12th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi to all but my question is this!
How many of you were assured by your affair partners that they would back away and let go if you wanted to work on your relationship?
How many of them did it and if they didn't how much harder did it make things for you and for your BS?

PS thanks for all the honesty on this thread... it's the first time I've read it and it has opened my eyes a lot so again Thank you so much for your honesty!


I lost my heart and found myself!

Posts: 804 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Orange NSW
EmptyCup
♀ Member
Member # 22909
Default  Posted: 8:06 PM, August 12th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Debs,

My AP and I were constantly giving each other an out - that we would back off completely if the other one wanted to stop. We were just too selfish/stupid/addicted/whatever to take each other up on that option. Once we were caught, we both immediately decided to work on our marriages and neither of us continued to pursue the other.


FWW, reconciled with my best friend <3

Nothing much but love to give you, even less have I to hide - Tim O'Brien


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Feb 2009
ky_197220
♀ Member
Member # 24728
Default  Posted: 8:30 PM, August 12th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WS-

How did you learn to deal with the guilt and forgive yourself? I know this is going to sound bizarre but I think my WS is being way to hard on himself. He shouldn't be terrified to face other people and contemplate suicide.

If you felt that way, how should I respond as the BS? Is it better to give him space ? Just worried he will do something stupid.

Thanks.


BS with beautiful b/g twins

Status - happily divorced.


Posts: 156 | Registered: Jul 2009
Debs
♀ Member
Member # 21933
Default  Posted: 3:06 AM, August 13th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for that empty cup
I think it was different for us because it went on so long but also because she had done this before and was manipulating what she saw as a new relationship.
But I'd still like to know from others that didn't end despite clear and concise messages.


I lost my heart and found myself!

Posts: 804 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Orange NSW
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:50 AM, August 13th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Debs -

In my case, my AP played the martyr a lot. So while she said she only wanted what made me happy and she would step back any time I felt it was best, it was said in that tone that says "Go ahead. Leave me. They all do.". When the WS has the type of KISA issues I had, the AP knows this play will keep the WS hooked. So while she said the words, she did so knowing in her mind that I wasn't going anywhere.

Given that, once I indicated I wanted to go NC (it was one way - xMOW would have continued the relationship indefinitely) she respected that request for quite some time. She came fishing about 15 months after formal NC via an email, but other than that breach she has remained NC.

Ironically, my BW offered to me that if I wanted to go and that was what would make me happy, she would let me go. She told me how much it would hurt, but she would make that sacrifice for me. In her case, it wasn't a ploy - it was her deep sense of compassion. Note that I am still here more than two years after D-Day. I am with the only woman who can ever make me this happy. I've left the martyr behind, but it took a while (about 5 months) to fully shake my fog over xMOW.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:55 AM, August 13th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ky_197220 -

How did you learn to deal with the guilt and forgive yourself?

This is quite possibly the hardest thing for any WS. Many of us (myself included) have low self esteem issues before the A. Once caught in the A, rock bottom gets even lower because there's just no integrity left to cling to.

It takes quite a while in IC to work your way out of this hole. I would NOT leave a WS alone and give them space. Thinking is already messed up - this just leaves more room for errors. Instead, I would offer whatever support you can through your pain for your WS to work things out through counseling. In addition, we used "After the Affair" as a springboard for communication. As we each read a chapter, we would quietly and calmly discuss the context together in the evening after the kids went to bed. My BW's patience with those conversations went a long way toward letting me get everything out on the table so I could piece my life back together again.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
roccodom
♀ Member
Member # 19714
Default  Posted: 8:51 AM, August 13th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hope I can explain my question correctly.

As we have talked about the A, I have really felt that my FWH has gotten it. He has verbalized a real understanding of himself and the circumstances

But every once in a while (usually when it becomes an arguement) when the topic comes up - he presents himself like a victim. I was trying to "end it" and the AP when balistic and I was told "you had better call her". He basically plays it like he was just trying to be all things to all people (he admits now that it was not the right thing - but at the time, it's what he did). Then he goes on to say that he has been "trying" and it just never seems to be good enough.

You know - why does it always come back to him?

Also, when he acts like he was just trying to be the hero (KISA) - this makes me think he doesn't "get it"

Without badgering him - how do I know what he really thinks cause it does bother me when he puts himself in the victim/hero role.


BS - me (45) WS - him (45)
married 16 yrs (DS 11yrs, DD 9yrs)
#1 PA - DDay 12/97
#2 PA DDay 5/08
#3 PA DDay 2/12
Trying R
Buddhism teaches that a craving for things outside ourselves causes an unhappy and pointless search for security.


Posts: 789 | Registered: May 2008 | From: MO
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 2:03 PM, August 13th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Debs -

How many of you were assured by your affair partners that they would back away and let go if you wanted to work on your relationship?

The xOM and I always knew the "relationship" was not long-term. After DDay, I tried to contact him once and he tried to contact me once.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 2:08 PM, August 13th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ky_197220

I think my WS is being way to hard on himself. He shouldn't be terrified to face other people and contemplate suicide.

It's difficult to describe. I still have a difficult time facing people. I feel like a hypocrite when talking about my family to my coworkers or acquaintances or my parents. I'm not suicidal, but I've had moments where I knew everything would be better if I was gone - then I couldn't hurt my husband anymore and I wouldn't have to deal with the constant panicky (guilty) feeling that I have.

I have left a lot of friends hanging because I just can't socialize with them and pretend everything is hunky dory. I'm sure they are all wondering what happened to me. I just can't face them.

[This message edited by UnexpectedSong at 2:09 PM, August 13th (Thursday)]


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
ky_197220
♀ Member
Member # 24728
Default  Posted: 9:16 PM, August 13th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Listening Closely & Unexpected Song -
We aren't living together. A lot of fighting this week. He's given up on himself. Not good enough, can't forgive himself, etc. I'm not belittling what he did at all. It hurt me tremendously but now I am more hurt that he is giving up on himself. Maybe I'm just in denial but six weeks out I feel I am able to forgive him. I don't think his affair is the end of the world so to speak. Thanks to SI I probably understand what led him to have the A better than he does.

I guess I am asking for your advice on what I should do especially since we aren't living together. I've strongly pushed for IC. I think he wants it but is afraid of it. Should I back off? There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that he wants to be with me and loves me. His self-esteem prevents it. He never sees the person that I see and love with all of my heart.


BS with beautiful b/g twins

Status - happily divorced.


Posts: 156 | Registered: Jul 2009
ky_197220
♀ Member
Member # 24728
Default  Posted: 9:18 PM, August 13th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Maybe the fact that I am able to forgive makes him feel even worse and less deserving?


BS with beautiful b/g twins

Status - happily divorced.


Posts: 156 | Registered: Jul 2009
Topic Posts: 1000
Pages: 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 · 16 · 17 · 18 · 19 · 20 · 21 · 22 · 23 · 24 · 25 · 26 · 27 · 28 · 29 · 30 · 31 · 32 · 33 · 34 · 35 · 36 · 37 · 38 · 39 · 40 · 41 · 42 · 43 · 44 · 45 · 46 · 47 · 48 · 49 · 50

Return to Forum: I Can Relate This Topic is Full
adultry
Go to :
madness  
© 2002 - 2014 SurvivingInfidelity.com. All Rights Reserved.