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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS"s III
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 3:38 PM, January 16th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Unexpected song....
Thank you so much for your comments and your analogy!
that drunk driver analogy is excellent!
(coincidentally,my husband actually was also driving drunk drunk whenever he was with the OW....)
But, the comparison is correct..the drunk driver does not set out to kill anyone in a car accident! he is not setting out to ruin his life or his family ..he is just thinking about himself and his own selfish needs..he wants to escape reality...and get runk..and then he wants to drive home or to another bar.... he is only thinking about himself...meanwhile...he has an accident an all hell breaks out!
He is to blame but..that was not his intention....he was just being selfish and was not thinking about anyone else!
I get it!

Also...unexpected..thank you for the explanation about the slippery slope...especially with co-workers....
I know my husband never set out to have an affair ..never searched for one online etc.
instead it was a situation where a drinking buddy co-worker...someone who had had other co-worker affairs in the past...chose him to be her next conquest...and he went along for the ride...
and finally..
listening closely...
thank you for responding...
I know that he hates to be forced to look at all of his toxic behavior again and again.....
I am trying to find a middle ground...and back off a bit.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
mourningtheloss
♀ Member
Member # 24917
Default  Posted: 6:38 PM, January 16th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is it possible for an affair to be a complete accident? I see a lot of talk on here about WS being broken and that there was something wrong with them that they need to figure out or it will only happen again.

My WS began his affair because he was playing an on line adventure game and became close to a guild member. It was just them playing and being friends for about 6mo before they started getting flirtatious. Then another two months before it devolved into ILY's then I found out two months after that, then it ended.

WH says the game played a HUGE role in his getting into the affair and that without it he would never have cheated.

My question, does there always have to be a flaw in the WS that must be uncovered in IC in order to affair proof your partner, or can some affairs just be accidental in nature?


BS: Me, 52
WS: Him 51 - 7mo EA/ 2mo PA
27 years Married
DS 24, DD 15
DD#1: 04/28/09 Found email from OW and demanded NC and was promised
DD#2 05/15/09 - False R, C never stopped
"Lose a Cheater, Gain a LIFE"

Posts: 513 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Ca
grace09
♀ Member
Member # 26808
Default  Posted: 7:53 PM, January 16th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't think you can just say it was an accident and as long as he doesn't play the game anymore everything will be fine. I'm sure it was a huge factor, but that doesn't make it an accident. He made the choice. Many WSs don't think they would ever do something like this until they do it. Afterwards, we look back and can't believe it either. He may not have major flaws, and may not need tons of IC. But don't let him off the hook that easily. Don't just dismiss it.


Me - FWW
Dday 7/09
MC began the week of D-Day, but not yet forgiven

Posts: 161 | Registered: Dec 2009
nyclady
♀ Member
Member # 26020
Sad  Posted: 8:45 PM, January 16th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am both a BS and a WS, so in answer to your question on my part, yes, an PA/EA can be accidental at first, but in the end, it was I who made the choice to get involved. I was broken inside. It was all about my needs, my ego, my low self-esteem, my age; passing through my child bearing years. MLC, etc, blah, blah, blah. It seems so odd to me now that I, who would never have thought in a million years I could do so thoughtless a thing, did, and for that I am forever ashamed and will never forgive myself. But one thing I can say without a doubt, it's not always once a cheater always a cheater. If we don't learn by our mistakes, then we'll only continue to repeat them, and there is no way on God's earth the pain of infidelity, on either end, is worth giving up a piece of your soul, self-worth, self-respect, and seeing the pain it can cause to those you love.


Feeling hopeless in New York. Please, before you think of giving comfort to me, read my story on my profile before you do.

Me and WH-56
Married 34 years, childhood sweethearts, friends 43 years.
DD-October 7, 2009
Sadly, but luckily, no children


Posts: 318 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: United States
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 11:50 AM, January 17th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

mourningtheloss -

Is it possible for an affair to be a complete accident?

No. Okay, maybe sometimes, but generally, no.

My WS began his affair because he was playing an on line adventure game and became close to a guild member. It was just them playing and being friends for about 6mo before they started getting flirtatious. Then another two months before it devolved into ILY's then I found out two months after that, then it ended.

This explanation totally belies that it was an "accident"! It's step by incremental step. Each step doesn't look so big, especially compared to the previous step, but all the steps together makes an affair. At every step of the way, he could have stopped. When they started flirting, he should have pulled back. When it got more serious (and it had to, to get to ILY), he should have stopped. In all the descriptions of "accidents", this is the exact antithesis of one!

Maybe, being very mad and upset, sitting in a bar alone drinking, someone hitting on someone, not wanting to say 'no' or whatever... one could maybe claim that as an "accident". (But why drink alone in a bar and respond to someone's advances? Not accidental!)

A step-by-step flirtation to discussion is not an accident.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
mourningtheloss
♀ Member
Member # 24917
Default  Posted: 11:59 AM, January 17th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you Grace, nyclady and US. Now comes the 2nd part of my question. Must he get to the WHY, conclusively thru IC in order to never repeat this behavior again?

It took about 5mo but he is now truly remorseful and says regularly and tearfully that he cannot imagine being with anyone other than me and that he was fool for going down the path he chose.

But his answers as to why don't seem substantial to me. He says he felt like he was helping her. She complained all the time about how her husband treated her and he would tell her she did not deserve to be treated that way and that he would never treat his wife that way. She in return would tell him how lucky I was to have him and what a great husband he was. It was KISA situation and then....he decided at some point to show her how it could be if he WERE her husband.


BS: Me, 52
WS: Him 51 - 7mo EA/ 2mo PA
27 years Married
DS 24, DD 15
DD#1: 04/28/09 Found email from OW and demanded NC and was promised
DD#2 05/15/09 - False R, C never stopped
"Lose a Cheater, Gain a LIFE"

Posts: 513 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Ca
painpaingoaway
♀ Member
Member # 27196
Default  Posted: 12:02 PM, January 17th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ttt for painpaingoaway


me BS female 55/him WS 58
Married 33 years
D-day July 09/he gave me his slut's STD
Watch my movie: "My wayward husband's adventures in STD land":
Episode 1: youtu.be/9Jv0-d_CdYc
Episode 2: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tz822H82Gk

Posts: 6763 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Coastal South
nyclady
♀ Member
Member # 26020
Sad  Posted: 1:18 PM, January 17th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can only answer for myself, but where others have said IC helped the WS, for me it was looking deep within my heart and soul, seeking God's help, and coming to terms with what was missing inside of me. Knowing the pain I caused myself and those on the peripheral of the A was enough for me to realize I was a fool and made one of the biggest mistakes of my life.

I hope your H finds what it was that made him stray.

Knowing where you are now in all this, my heart bleeds for you!


Feeling hopeless in New York. Please, before you think of giving comfort to me, read my story on my profile before you do.

Me and WH-56
Married 34 years, childhood sweethearts, friends 43 years.
DD-October 7, 2009
Sadly, but luckily, no children


Posts: 318 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: United States
grace09
♀ Member
Member # 26808
Default  Posted: 1:42 PM, January 17th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Everyone is different, but I don't think he has to totally get to the "why". I've been trying to get to the why, because in my case I think I have to. But, sometimes I'm not sure I'm going to find it completely. There are a lot of factors that led to my actions, but "why" is harder. I know that if I never get there, it won't change the fact that I will never let this happen again. If he is sincere and is doing all the things that you need him to do (NC, transparency, honesty, etc.) and you are both healing and communicating, then I think you can have a safe M.


Me - FWW
Dday 7/09
MC began the week of D-Day, but not yet forgiven

Posts: 161 | Registered: Dec 2009
mourningtheloss
♀ Member
Member # 24917
Default  Posted: 6:06 PM, January 17th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nyclady & Grace,

Thank you for your responses. My H is doing everything I want except reading and doing the "work" on himself. All of the work he does comes from me drawing him out and making him talk to me, sort of like I'M his IC. It's slowly working, but it's always me driving and I guess that bothers me a bit.

His remorse was a HUGE step and it took 5mo to get there. I am feeling much better about us now than ever before but worry so much about repeat behavior. He says he has learned thru the pain he has caused our whole family and would NEVER do such a thing again. But as a BS, I don't trust this and fear it happening again in another 5 to 10years when I am so old I could never find someone else to love me.

[This message edited by mourningtheloss at 6:07 PM, January 17th (Sunday)]


BS: Me, 52
WS: Him 51 - 7mo EA/ 2mo PA
27 years Married
DS 24, DD 15
DD#1: 04/28/09 Found email from OW and demanded NC and was promised
DD#2 05/15/09 - False R, C never stopped
"Lose a Cheater, Gain a LIFE"

Posts: 513 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Ca
1DLW
♀ Member
Member # 21971
Default  Posted: 6:30 PM, January 17th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

mourningtheloss,
It may have been an"accident" in that he didn't plan on an affair at first or hurting you. But the fact is, he did take that step.
I can say this because I am a WW, There is clearly something wrong with someone that can block out all thought of their spouse and family, have an affair, and then block out the A when with their spouse.
It's just not healthy normal behavior.
Finding the core why IMO is of utmost importance. I think it depends on the person some of us need IC to get there, and some don't.
We can't fix what we don't know is broken. We can put new siding on our house, but if the frame is falling apart it really doesn't help does it?


WS 42

Posts: 483 | Registered: Dec 2008
TICKED OFF
♀ Member
Member # 8291
Default  Posted: 8:11 PM, January 17th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Unexpectedsong.......first and most importantly, thank you for you reponses. I really do appreciated all the help that the WS give by giving us insight.

You are right about my asking the same question in many different ways. This is very true. I guess I am just trying to figure out the mind of a WS (including my own h). I guess it's something that I will never really understand. It's not that I am not trying to understand mind you, it's just that I can't seem to comprehend how my h (or a WS) can put their spouse through such pain KNOWING full well that what they were doing was wrong. That my friend, I will never understand no matter how many times I ask the question.

Again, thanks for at least trying to help me out.


Posts: 2390 | Registered: Sep 2005
grace09
♀ Member
Member # 26808
Default  Posted: 8:20 PM, January 17th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

mourning - your fear and lack of trust at this point is normal. My H is feeling the same way. We are 6 months since Dday and working hard on R. But, the pain you guys are feeling makes it hard to believe us. I pray that you will be patient with him and give him the chance to prove to you that he can be trusted. Let him know that there are no second chances. Share your fears with him. Hopefully, as time goes on, he'll be more comfortable with working on himself on his own. Continue to let him know how important that aspect of the healing process is. For your sake and his. If he hasn't seen this site, maybe you should show it to him. The WSs will all encourage him to do exactly that.


Me - FWW
Dday 7/09
MC began the week of D-Day, but not yet forgiven

Posts: 161 | Registered: Dec 2009
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 8:33 PM, January 17th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

mourningtheloss - Many of us have taken the "slippery slope" route to having an A. I never set out to have one, and never believed I would end up where I did. The process was gradual and happened over time. Our MC talked a lot about how I didn't see what was happening until I was "in over my head". And that is certainly how it felt on my end.

But despite all of that, it wasn't an "accident". It was unintended, but I still took the actions that led to the A.

The concern now is can he answer the question "if someone comes along needing a KISA and strokes his ego in return, how can he guarantee he won't slip again?". His gut reaction might be to say that he would never do it again, that he's seen the pain it causes and that he would never make that choice again. But before he traveled down the slippery slope, he would have said the same thing. What's different now? Unless he has explored what he gained in the A and why he needed that so much that it overrode his ability to put up proper boundaries, he hasn't done enough work yet to affair proof himself.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
nyclady
♀ Member
Member # 26020
Sad  Posted: 8:35 PM, January 17th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When I told my H of my waywardness, he blocked it out and asked we never speak of it again. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, and though I've walked in his shoes, I don't get where my WH is coming from and probably never will. His A is quite different from what I experienced. I believe it's different for men and women when it comes to As. However, it is what is wrong with US that has to be dealt with.

Just know there isn't anything you can do to fix what is wrong with your H. It HAS to come from him.


Feeling hopeless in New York. Please, before you think of giving comfort to me, read my story on my profile before you do.

Me and WH-56
Married 34 years, childhood sweethearts, friends 43 years.
DD-October 7, 2009
Sadly, but luckily, no children


Posts: 318 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: United States
littleman
♂ New Member
Member # 27205
Default  Posted: 9:12 PM, January 17th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

that last post is so true. The Bs can ask and request or demand what they need. However, we need to respond and start doing. My BS laid it out plain and simple, I just needed to follow and do. One of the things was to join this site and I put it off for way tooo long. Im gald Im here now, because I have learned so much. For the record A's are not accidents, we choose to do what we do znd dont accidently fall into their face or lap for that matter.


Me=WH..38
Bs..29.1
Married 8 yrs
4 kids

Posts: 21 | Registered: Jan 2010
bdotoole
♀ New Member
Member # 25213
Default  Posted: 12:10 PM, January 18th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why protect the OP.....all these 20 months later he still seems to be protective of his MOW. Yes, she was a Mother of 4, married for 27 yrs and she is probably a pretty "nice" person but how can he not see and state to me that people that do what they did are not truly that nice of people. It hurts so badly when he is so blatantly still on her side even after ending affair immediately after d day, broke NC 2-3 times over 2 months by responding to her fishing, but has been transparent and appears to be remorseful except for when I continue to bring up the "incident" as he likes to refer to it as. He can become defensive and even angry at these times but then other times we seem to talk about it fine. Do WSs not get that any words they use complimenting the OP is so very hurtful. Does this mean he is not and will never really be over his "strong feelings" for her. I do not expect for him to call her names or be childish in how he speaks of her but damn it, cant he see how he holds up for her even now and why that hurts me so badly. He has recently agreed that she may be a nice person but she is definitely not a friend of our relationship but this took me pulling this out of him. Would appreciate insight from other WSs in why and how does this happen...Thank you for your responses.......

Posts: 25 | Registered: Aug 2009
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 12:26 PM, January 18th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why protect the OP

A tough question BD. I don't recall actively defending xMOW in the open, but I also wasn't publicly slamming her either. I think in the early going, it was because a part of me felt like if I degraded her, I lowered myself even further. One of those situations where you're already down on yourself, and then ask yourself "you caused all this harm for what? A person THAT bad?". There's a part of you that wants to think of the OP wasn't so bad, then the fact you allowed boundaries to slip could be somewhat more understandable.

Then there's the fact that the entire relationship was a fantasy on both ends. Just as we are reminded by BS's that the OP didn't see our bad side, we didn't necessarily see the OP's bad side either. We saw what they chose to share with us. So it's harder for us to see the bad in them.

I don't think most WS's do see defending the OP as being hurtful to their BS. If they are not remorseful, then the WS is defending their choices by showing what a great person the OP is. If they are remorseful, then often times we take on 100% of the accountability for our actions wishing to leave the OP's choices out of the equation.

Not sure this makes much sense, but it's how it felt for me over time anyway. I did eventually hit a rage stage where I got pissed at xMOW's role. I'm betting by this point she's managed to wreck at least one more M if not several. She's not remorseful and has habitually chased married guys on the same site I met her on. But in my case I had that perpetual OW type of person. Others might have someone who returns to their M and tries to make things right. In that case, the OP is no better or no worse than we were. Of course, since there should be NC in place, there's no way for us to ever know how they've proceeded with their lives anyway.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 1:10 PM, January 18th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

bdotoole -

Why protect the OP

It depends on the kind of affair. The xOM was young, single. I groomed him. I was the predator. I don't protect him, but I am much, much more at fault than he is.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
Breathe75
♀ Member
Member # 25766
Question  Posted: 8:18 PM, January 18th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WH already told me he didn't even *like* the two OW he had the A's with.

This morning he told me he had never even *wanted* to be with them? But he was...

...so now I'm more confused?

How can you be with someone you don't "like" or even "want" to be with?


Me/BS--35
Him/WS-51
2 great kids(13 and 10)
DDay--April 2, 2009 (2 PA's confirmed just 4 days before our 10th wedding anniversary.)
DDay #2 12/19/10 (Discovered he's on a single's website? Lists himself as "legally separated?)

Posts: 155 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Somwhere in Hell
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