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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS"s III
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 3:53 PM, November 3rd (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HBH -

How come he was motivated to be lean and working out when he had an OW, but for me he lets himself go?

My guess would be the sense of need to work to earn the attention of the OW. There is a certain sense of false security that builds in an M. After all, don't we all assume we don't need to work extra hard to earn the attention and affection of someone who married us?

When a WS pursues their OP, the OP may have other people of interest. In my case, xMOW was a serial OP with multiple men vying for her attention. So you do stupid things to try to ensure they focus their ego stroking on you. Work out and eat better. Listen to music you normally wouldn't care about to have common interests. Stay up until ridiculous hours of the night so you can catch them online when they free up. Wait for hours while they chat with someone else just to prove you were focused enough on them that you waited for them.

Like I said, really stupid motivation.

There is also a side effect in an A. I lost a good amount of weight back then, but it wasn't due to exercise. I just didn't eat. Not healthy at all and again very foolish.

As far as now goes, how about working together to come up with a fitness plan that works. I've placed a stationary bike in my home office and set reasonable goals. Even putting just 10 minutes on the bike in a given day is a good thing. I've increased my water intake and dropped sodas and other pure sugars. I used a modified Special K/Slim Fast diet for a while to develop a healthy caloric intake (now 200-300 calories at breakfast, the same at lunch, 100 calorie snacks mid morning and mid afternoon, and then a normal dinner). I now cannot eat as much as I used to...I get full much quicker.

Fitness does not have to cost money for gym memberships and meal buying clubs. The key is to have people who will support you in your efforts.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
hopefulwife
♀ Member
Member # 20942
Default  Posted: 12:20 AM, November 5th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Need some advice from WS. I finally read the Shirley Glass book NOT Just Friends. A fantastic book that helped me so much. My H knew that I was reading it and was supportive when I would cry about something I had read. He told me he was here for me and wanted to help me heal. He has yet to give me the full story of the A. I chose four chapters from the book and asked him to read them for me...for us. The chapters I chose explain how I feel and what I've gone through, the importance of discussing the A and how we can heal together. That book has sat on his desk untouched for over 3 weeks now. What the hell should I do? He had the nerve to tell me how good the Dan Brown novel "The Lost Symbol" is!!

I'm really pissed at him. Jackass! Tell me what I should do.


BW - me 42
FWH - 48
DDay 4/17/08 True R 6/11/08
No children together except our Bull Mastiff Maximus...my baby.

Posts: 99 | Registered: Sep 2008 | From: California
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 12:08 PM, November 5th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hopefulwife -

For me, the reason I responded immediately to what my BW was asking of me is that she was very clear about what I had to do. She also had a history of following through and never making idle threats.

Basically, you need to decide what the consequences are for your WH not reading the book, and be prepared to follow through on them. So if this is a deal breaker (and it would be for me), make your choices. Be ready to say "Either you read this portion of the book by no later than Sunday night and we will discuss the contents then. If this does not happen, you will find your belongings packed on the front step and you will be looking for another place to live.".

Anything without consequences will allow your WH to stall and not take action.

With that said, I'll add a caution here. I found "Not Just Friends" highly helpful, but because it was written in a way that I could relate myself within the situations the book provided. When you see yourself in the characters of the book, it's much easier to "get the message". So IMHO your WH should read the whole book and be prepared to talk about it. Focusing just on the BS perspective keeps it just about your view, and prevents him from seeing "his own 'wrongness'".


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 5:44 PM, November 5th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hopefulwife:

He told me he was here for me and wanted to help me heal.

Tell him if he is sincere about this he will do what you asked of him and read not just those chapters, but the entire book. Let him know, with emphasis, that if he's serious about R and helping you heal he will give you what you need to heal. Let him know the repercussions for not doing these things...He needs to know the ramifications of his actions and inactions....


FWW - 40
Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent...

Posts: 5532 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
hopefulwife
♀ Member
Member # 20942
Default  Posted: 6:49 PM, November 5th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you both! I was hoping that by taking baby steps and just having him read a few chapters, that he would end up reading the whole book. I get myself into so much trouble hoping and assuming. He keeps saying that he doesn't want to talk about it because it will hurt me. I look at him completely dumbfounded and explain that I have BEEN hurting for a year and a half! I'll give him an ultimatum and tell him to read it by next weekend or face the consequences. This terrifies me because he's never responded well to my ultimatums. He is the horse in the old adage "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."


BW - me 42
FWH - 48
DDay 4/17/08 True R 6/11/08
No children together except our Bull Mastiff Maximus...my baby.

Posts: 99 | Registered: Sep 2008 | From: California
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 7:01 PM, November 5th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He keeps saying that he doesn't want to talk about it because it will hurt me

Tell him that the continued secrecy and potential lying by omission hurts. That his refusal to help you heal hurts. That his conflict avoidance hurts. Reassure him (and you have to make sure of this) that he can feel safe sharing with you. As a WS, I can tell you that avoidance can be a natural reflex for us so often times, it doesn't take much for us to clam up and begin avoiding. If you ask him a question or he begins to volunteer information, do not blow up. Your reactions will impact his willingness to continue with the process. If he sees that he's going to get slammed everytime he tells you something you want and need to know, I can guarantee you he will not share anything else with you.

This terrifies me because he's never responded well to my ultimatums.

Meaning? Is he abusive? . Most people don't respond well to ultimatums because it means they're no longer in control and their choices are few and far between. My thinking is that he probably throws a tantrum when you give him an ultimatum and to keep the peace, you back down. I could be wrong, though, so forgive me if I am. That said, if I'm right, then this has to be a time when you stand firm and stick with your ultimatum. He might not like it but boo fucken hoo. My heart bleeds kool aid for him. It's time for him to man up and face ALL the consequences of his actions and choices. And to his old adage I say - You can lead a horse to water and you can fucken waterboard it! How about that!


FWW - 40
Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent...

Posts: 5532 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
hopefulwife
♀ Member
Member # 20942
Default  Posted: 11:23 PM, November 5th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, MissesJai! No he is NEVER abusive, just stubborn. The kind that if you tell him he's gonna do something, he won't. Besides the A it's the one thing I can't stand about him. I'll get him to talk. It's just taking too damn long for me. And he WILL read the book! No matter how wonderful he is to me, the not knowing the story will eventually destroy us. I know that and it's time he did. Thanks again for the help!


BW - me 42
FWH - 48
DDay 4/17/08 True R 6/11/08
No children together except our Bull Mastiff Maximus...my baby.

Posts: 99 | Registered: Sep 2008 | From: California
Sad in AZ
♀ Member
Member # 24239
Default  Posted: 5:17 PM, November 6th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm hoping for responses from WS who have broken away from their EA partners.

My WH (he also had a PA prior to the EA) feels that his EA partner is his BFF; they work together in a hell hole (state correctional facility--he is a CO; she is a nurse) They have carried on an extremely inappropriate relationship for three years now (thousands of minutes on cell phone; thousands of texts--even in the middle of the night with pictures; secret meet-ups for lunch, coffee, just to talk, etc. He is her sounding board on her marriage (she has recently divorced), her children (she has a troubled son), whatever. He tells her details of our arguments; I'm sure they talk about work some of the time. I have caught them together on many occasions--it's always an innocent, chance meetings of course. It's all in my profile and journal if you care to read it.

She has been married 3 times; I'm sure she's wrecked other marriages (but I don't have proof); she's a flirt; she's teaching her 13 year old daughter to be the same.

Two years ago she sent him a text saying she loved him; I intercepted it, so he didn't get a chance to respond to it. In any event, my position is that if they were just truly friends, at that point he should have RUN in the other direction, but he did not and they are still thick.

He SWEARS that this is not a physical relationship, and I am willing to accept that premise (until it is proven false) but I say the relationship has to stop; it will not lead to anything good; he says he needs her friendship to relieve the stress of their work environment. I have even gone so far as to threaten to find a 'friend' of my own and do exactly what he's done to me, as that is the only way he will ever see the harm he is doing (I won't--really I won't, but I can't seem to get my point across.)

My question (sorry this is so long) is, How did you finally see that your EA partner was not a friend to you or your marriage? What opened your eyes? I am at my wits end; the next step is D, and I'm afraid it's the only way for me to cope now. Thank you.


I promise to surround myself with amazing souls and love them fiercely.

Posts: 19189 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Upstate NY
cantbreathe09
♂ Member
Member # 24600
Default  Posted: 7:25 PM, November 7th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WW says that our marriage is important to her, she didn't want this to happen, that this isn't an exit affair, and the she wants to find out what the hell is wrong with her, but she does nothing.

Have any of you FWW's done or said the same? Have you carried on with the A, until you figured things out?

My WW is definitly cake-eating so I told her to leave, and she agreed because she says at least she wont be around for me to see what she is donig, and it won't hurt me as much , are you kidding me!? She is going to her parents and she says she'll go to IC, and I heard a few conversations when she is talking to OM, and it doesn't sound like she wants to end it.

I have no understanding of this at all. Any insight will be helpful, any at all.


Cry now...smile later.

Posts: 66 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Holloman AFB, NM
HurtButHopeful?
♀ Member
Member # 25144
Default  Posted: 1:38 PM, November 8th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why would a FWH recommit to a life long marriage with someone he doesn't love and hasn't loved for 5 years? (Other than the fact that he made a commitment before his W and God "till death do us part.")

Why would a BS stay with a man who doesn't love her and hasn't loved her for 5 years?

(I only found that after the A. I had always though he loved me. That is what makes it so hard.)

I love the man I used to know, but not the lying man. I find it humiliating to be with someone I know doesn't love me. I want to leave. . . .

[This message edited by HurtButHopeful? at 1:39 PM, November 8th (Sunday)]


Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009
used up
♀ Member
Member # 26119
Default  Posted: 2:11 PM, November 11th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hurt but hopeful

I'm with you. Why does he want to R after telling me he hasn't loved me in 2,5, and 19 years? I don't want to be anyone's second choice or fall back partner.

I have suggested separation until air (fog) clears and he becomes really upset. Says he knows we will grow further apart.

Told me past weekend that he thought affair was winding down because she cheated on him with her husband(!!!)and possibly another guy. He was becoming "disillusioned" with her. Not way he told to MC.
But still didn't feel compelled to end affair until our 16 year old daughter told him to or she would never speak to him again.

So why say want R but say haven't loved spouse in years? Is this part of confusion lingering from fantasy life?

[This message edited by used up at 2:17 PM, November 11th (Wednesday)]


BS -me -57 WH 62
Married 23 years
son-21-heart of Switzerland
daughter-18-fierce warrior

MOW - mother of Daughter's best friend. 15 years younger than WH
Discovery Day - July 1, 2009


Posts: 470 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Nevada
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 2:15 PM, November 11th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

used up...

This thread is for BS's to ask questions of the WS's here...if you're wanting to engage with BS's, please post on General or whatever forum fits your situation best.

Thank you


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 192147 | Registered: May 2002
used up
♀ Member
Member # 26119
Default  Posted: 2:20 PM, November 11th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm sorry. Thought I was asking question about why WS want to R if say haven't loved BS in many years.


BS -me -57 WH 62
Married 23 years
son-21-heart of Switzerland
daughter-18-fierce warrior

MOW - mother of Daughter's best friend. 15 years younger than WH
Discovery Day - July 1, 2009


Posts: 470 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Nevada
Uggh
♂ Member
Member # 26161
Question  Posted: 9:27 PM, November 12th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It seems like most of the WSs, here, are very supportive, loving, and remorseful. I'm curious if the so-called fog affected many (any?) of you. Did you know right away that you wanted to commit to saving your marriages?

My WW is in MC and IC and is "trying to make this work." To me, though, it seems like she is ambivalent or less than fully committed. Is this a bad sign at the one month mark? Is it too soon for me to panic? I desperately want to save our marriage but not if she really doesn't love me.

With her attitude, I'm wondering if I should just call it quits rather than suffer through any more of this than I have to. Is this initial lack of commitment common for WSs on this board?


Me: BH
. . . and I know my wife loves me (almost as much as I love her).

Posts: 322 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Vermont
Kwills
♀ Member
Member # 13172
Default  Posted: 11:11 PM, November 12th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Did you know right away that you wanted to commit to saving your marriages?

Nope. In some ways I was emotionally prepared for my H to divorce me when he found out, and half hoped he would. I had been ambivalent about the marriage for a long, long time.

My WW is in MC and IC and is "trying to make this work." To me, though, it seems like she is ambivalent or less than fully committed. Is this a bad sign at the one month mark? Is it too soon for me to panic? I desperately want to save our marriage but not if she really doesn't love me.

She may not know how she feels, quite honestly. I'm over 4 years out from when this all started and there are still some days that ambivalence sneaks up on me and I'm not sure if I want to be here. I think at one month that is probably pretty common, although I've seen lots of FWS here who said they recommitted immediately. Sadly I was not one of them.


With her attitude, I'm wondering if I should just call it quits rather than suffer through any more of this than I have to. quote]

Only you can say. I'm kind of convinced that in this whole process things seem to initially get a whole lot worse before they get eve a little bit better. I've seen people suggest waiting a year to make any big moves and I personally think that is good advice. And even then it takes a whole lot longer to get things even somewhat back to "normal."

Tben again, what do I know. I still have days I question if we're going to make it--not due to the As per se, just due to basic values, goals, and compatibility.

Kwills


Posts: 1052 | Registered: Jan 2007
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 9:40 AM, November 13th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why would a FWH recommit to a life long marriage with someone he doesn't love and hasn't loved for 5 years? (Other than the fact that he made a commitment before his W and God "till death do us part.")

HurtButHopeful,

When my wife discovered my A, I said many very hurtful things to her. Regretfully I cannot go back and un-say them, though I would if I could. My words were cruel.

I had a choice pre-A to be a husband and discuss any problems that I felt existed in the M. I chose instead to have an affair and to tell my wife the infamous justification of cheating line, "I love you but I'm not IN LOVE with you" and haven't been for years. You would have thought I could be more original, but alas, I was just a common wayward variety. (attempt at humor)

I attempted to justify my A by using this ILYBINILWY which happened to be the only tool I had in my arsenal. My other choice would have been to say, UH, I don't know why I did it. ( I didn't want to look that stupid, so I abandoned the thought of using that excuse) I was not about to accept any responsibility for the problems in my marriage and I wanted to make sure if others found out about my A that I had a good line I could use. (pretty sick, wasn't I)

I did not accept responsibility , nor did I end my A..... but I sure continued to spew my ILYBINILWY crap. After a month of this, she told me to leave and told EVERYONE about my A. I was stunned, but I had my ILYBINILWY line to fall back on so everyone would KNOW my A was an OK thing. The looks of bewilderment from all our friends and family every time I used this tool told me this was not going over so well. But it was my story and I was sticking to it!

I went on like this for SIX more months and nearly destroyed every bit of love that my wife felt for me. I had a rectal-cranial extraction that occured at the end of those six months and asked my wife if she was willing to reconcile, and thankfully she was.

When we reconciled, I apologized for the lies and for the cruel words I had spoken. I admitted my intention in saying such things was for no other purpose that to protect my sick affair and to not look like the bad guy in all of this. Of all the things my wife struggles with, the I haven't loved you for XXX years has been our biggest stumbling block to work through. She struggles to believe my words today, which is no suprise given the amount of damage I had done. Reminds me of a proverb, Prov. 12:18 "Reckless words pierce like a sword, but the tongue of the wise brings healing."

The book, "Fall in Love, Stay in Love" by Dr. Willard Harley, was the best tool we have found to combat all the damage those actions and words of mine created.


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 10:01 AM, November 13th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UU - I'll take a shot at your question.

So why say want R but say haven't loved spouse in years? Is this part of confusion lingering from fantasy life?

In my experience, this is exactly it. During the A, there needs to be an offset to the internal voice that tells you your actions are wrong. So your mind fights back by looking for any negative trait in the M it can latch onto. Some are legitimate things that have fallen into disrepair in the M, some are small bumps in the road that are artificially inflated into huge issues. But all of it is done as a protection mechanism to prevent having to face the "wrongness" of what the WS is doing.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
the fsc
♂ Member
Member # 23028
Default  Posted: 9:08 AM, November 14th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Uggh,

Did you know right away that you wanted to commit to saving your marriages?

Nope...I figured the fallout from Dday would end the marriage. In fact, at that point I wanted it.

Circumstances are different for everyone. I can tell you that it was a slow process for us...for me. It wasn't as simple as a light bulb turning on, apart from the HB time period. Believe this, though: The fog affected all of us WS's...all of us. Those of us that appear remorseful, supportive, and loving have pretty much cleared the fog...but we were certainly in it.

Yours is NOT a bad sign at only the one month mark. Don't give up yet...it takes time to reconcile. I'm at 18 months out and still taking those baby steps to improve. The initial lack of committment may just be a side effect of trying to deal with what she did. I had a hard time (still do) standing up to my BS for anything after the heinous act that I committed. Ask her to join this site. It's helped me. And despite the long pauses between my posts, I'm still able to get a lot out of this place.

Don't give up yet, Uggh.


WH - (45) Me
BS - (44) Her (Redrock)

D Day 3/23/2008
Easter


Posts: 165 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Michigan
Finesse026
♀ Member
Member # 25868
Helpless  Posted: 12:20 AM, November 17th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi....

I have had a tough night....

I discovered on Sunday that my WH has never established NC with OW (this after two/three other d-days). He got angry for me for discovering this. He said that he was trying to protect me. No, liars lie to protect themselves....

Anyway, this morning I told him for us to R, I needed four things (five after my IC that was supposed to be MC tonight): 1. NC (until possible OC is born, with parameters) 2. honesty/transparency-access to any and all accounts emails etc. 3. MC 4. IC 5. write a NC letter and telling OW the truth about us and where we are going.

Our MC said that it was okay to have boundaries that are set in stone for me. I told H about those minimums and said that I did not want him at home until if and when he can do these things. I also told him that this did not mean I wanted our M over, or that I was leaving, just time for me and H to get our heads straight. He said okay and that time apart would probably do us both some good. He even agree that he needed IC to figure all this out.

Fast forward to this evening and now he says that maybe we should begin talking to lawyers?!? I was devistated. We aren't far out from d-day one (Sept. 25) and I just don't understand where this is coming from. He SWEARS that he doesn't want OW. That he just doesn't want to be with anyone. That he can't give anything to anyone. That he is empty and has no feelings (of course not, how could he after everything that has happened?). That he can't see us making it through this. That he "left a long time ago". Is this fog? Guilt? Real?!

He said that maybe if we begin the process that it will wake us both up....to what? I am awake and he is crushing everything! I saw a lawyer Friday, that didn't wake him up? I told him not to come home this morning, that didn't wake him up? Am I missing something? I know he has lied a lot to me....I just don't want him to make a mistake that he and I both regret. Although he said that he would have to live with it if he realizes that it was a mistake?!? WTF? Then why rush into this?

I asked him to get IC for a while to clear his head before making any life altering decisions. To find out why he did what he did, and then truly see what he wants. Am I just being hopeful when I shouldn't be? I am just scared that he isn't thinking clearly and looking for the easiest and fastest exit. Like he wants to just forget everything that happened and letting me go is apart of that. Has any of you felt that way? Did any of you suggest a S or D early on? Did any of you change your mind about it, if you did?

I am sorry this is so long, I am just dying for some insight...some help....some hope....

Thank you.

[This message edited by Finesse026 at 1:35 AM, November 17th (Tuesday)]


Together: 8.5 years
Married: 5 years
BW: 32
WH: 34
Angel baby: Nov. 09
OC born June '10

filed for D Oct. 15, served Dec 18
D final June 21, 2011


Posts: 1795 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Wonderland
1DLW
♀ Member
Member # 21971
Default  Posted: 5:05 AM, November 17th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UGGH,
I'm curious if the so-called fog affected many (any?) of you. Did you know right away that you wanted to commit to saving your marriages?

I very much wanted to commit to saving my M. I was in a fog, I had ended A's before being confronted by BH, but I had done nothing to work on myself and my issues, so my head was still not right.
My BH would ask me to do things to work on myself, read things, join here.
It took me quite a bit longer than a month to jump into action.
I do all that I can now, and he's told me he sees it, and even that he's proud of me.
Of course this being the roller coaster it is, the next day he's ready to strangle me(figuratively)
Hang in there


WS 42

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