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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS"s III
lost and lonely
♀ Member
Member # 17205
Default  Posted: 6:27 PM, September 9th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

All WS's...Please help me with something! I don't know what else to do.

It's been a long time for me since d-day...over 3 years. My FWH and I have recently separated...it wasn't directly A related. We were just in a bad place and couldn't seem to make it work.

Since our separation, I've done alot of soul searching. I've realized that I wasn't responsible for FWH's choice to have an A. I've also realized that even though I didn't have an A, I've done things in our marriage that were just as damaging.

This leads me to my problem. I miss my husband and I want to work things out with him. I have forgiven him for the past. He can't change what happened anymore than I can. The problem is that he won't forgive himself...and therefore won't let me forgive him. He feels so guilty about what he's done to hurt me. He thinks that he's not good enough for me. He thinks that he doesn't deserve to be forgiven because of the hell he's put me through. He thinks I would be better off without him and that I'd be happier if I could move on.

At the same time, he tells me that he loves me and he misses me. He says that it kills him to be away from me and the kids. He calls every night. He comes by a couple of time a week and stays a couple of hours. His mother told me that if he was done with our marriage he wouldn't bother to do any of these things...he'd just be done.

So, how do I get him to believe he deserves my forgiveness? How do I get him to believe that he's worthy?


Me: 36
WxH: 37
Together 16yrs, married 12yrs (we were 16 and 17 when we met...high school sweethearts)
2 sons
Separated 6/09, Divorced 2/11

Posts: 706 | Registered: Nov 2007
lost and lonely
♀ Member
Member # 17205
Default  Posted: 5:56 AM, September 10th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Anybody got any advice?


Me: 36
WxH: 37
Together 16yrs, married 12yrs (we were 16 and 17 when we met...high school sweethearts)
2 sons
Separated 6/09, Divorced 2/11

Posts: 706 | Registered: Nov 2007
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:28 AM, September 10th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lost and lonely -

So, how do I get him to believe he deserves my forgiveness? How do I get him to believe that he's worthy?

The reason you feel so challenged is that you can't "get" him to do anything. These are discoveries he has to arrive at himself.

He thinks I would be better off without him and that I'd be happier if I could move on.

This is the "run away and hide" approach in an effort to not have to face the conflict in front of him. Figuring if he just released you then he wouldn't have to do the hard work of healing himself. The problem is this leaves him as a damaged individual. The only way his future can be better, with or without you, is for him to work out the issues he has within him.

You could suggest that regardless of whether you were together or apart, he needs to find his way toward healing. Without you, he has to face that challenge on his own. With you, he has a partner who wants to see him succeed and will take some of the weight off his shoulders. Ask him if it wouldn't be better for him to face this together as a team rather than on his own.

At the same time, he tells me that he loves me and he misses me. He says that it kills him to be away from me and the kids. He calls every night. He comes by a couple of time a week and stays a couple of hours.

His words say he loves you. But his actions are not backing it up at this point. You can share this with him too. Let him know that if he loves you so deeply, the greatest gift he can give you is to do work in IC to find a way to forgive himself. And if combined with the message above, you can help him see that you are there to work with him. To go to IC appointments early on to help the IC understand what needs to be done. To reinforce the "homework" from IC to help him heal.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Twitchy
♂ Member
Member # 25393
Default  Posted: 8:19 AM, September 10th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've been reading all the post here and on the Wayward Side trying to understand the WHY of my wife's actions. She keeps saying she doesn't know why and the EAs or that she would just say she liked the attention the flirty chatting gave her.

That's the part I don't get. She's like the attention she was getting from the chats and e-mails but she would push me away whenever I would get flirty or suggesting, saying it made her uncomfortable. WTF!!! Why does she like it with them but not with me??

I've detailed my situation in my profile. Can any of the WS here help me understand this?


BH(me)-47, FWW-41,
D-Day #1 - Oct 2007 - On-Line EA leading to a failed rendez-vous
D-Day #2 - Nov 2008 - In person EA caught early.

Dies irae. Dies illa solvet saeclum in favilla.


Posts: 575 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Ontario - Canada
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 9:01 AM, September 10th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Twitchy -

She's like the attention she was getting from the chats and e-mails but she would push me away whenever I would get flirty or suggesting, saying it made her uncomfortable. WTF!!! Why does she like it with them but not with me??

Sorry, I have no real answer, but I identify with what your wife says. I could do the flirty/dirty talk with the xOM, but I don't like it when my husband does it. The only "answer" I have so far is "Madonna/whore syndrome", which usually applies to men (where a man cannot see his wife as a sexual being - only a Madonna - so he does what is minimally sufficient to get children, but he wants "sluts" to fulfill his sexual needs). My therapist doesn't buy this, though.

So, like I said, no answer, but I feel the same way.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
Twitchy
♂ Member
Member # 25393
Default  Posted: 9:47 AM, September 10th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I not so sure but have to suppose that could be part of it, but I really have a hard time thinking of myself and a Madonna?


BH(me)-47, FWW-41,
D-Day #1 - Oct 2007 - On-Line EA leading to a failed rendez-vous
D-Day #2 - Nov 2008 - In person EA caught early.

Dies irae. Dies illa solvet saeclum in favilla.


Posts: 575 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Ontario - Canada
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 9:50 AM, September 10th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Twitchy,

Why does she like it with them but not with me??

During A, As for me, I was more adventurous with xOP. Because xOP was out of my league (younger, lanky and artistic, someone whom I don't normally associate with), I looked at him as a fantasy lover, or idle. I was becoming his fan or groupie. Whenever we talked on IM, we would turn on each other and then talk about what we would do to each other next time we would meet. By acting out those sexual performance made me feel like we were actor and actress in the fantasy movie, and not reality. xOP made me realize that I had naughty side, therefore I was inhibited.
Literally, we were doing at anywhere in the house and even outside. It made me fell like I was performing in the fantasy world. Acting out with the ideal fantasy lover in the limited time, sex became intense and leaving me the feeling of wanting for more and looking forward to the next meeting. It gave me the high and was getting addictive activities for me. BH asked why I couldn't be wild like with xOP. As for me, BH became a father figure, I couldn't cross the naughty side. I felt more embarrassed acting wild like that with H back then.

After A ended, H wanted to have wild sex like I did with xOM, since he has seen how wild I was. However, I became asexual for 1 year. During a 3 month of withdrawal period, I was cringing when H touched me. Also those wild sexual performance triggered me and gave me the flash backs and made me miss xOM.


At 6 month mark, I felt indifferent about xOM and at the 1 year mark, I can consider as if he is being dead. I needed celibacy from xOM. (He-tox = De-tox) from my system. Like I was preparing to be virgin again for H, so now I feel like I am feeling H as a new man.


I am 3 years out and our flirtiness came back after 1 year out.

Hope this helps. Good luck.


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
hopingwaiting
♀ Member
Member # 23575
Default  Posted: 8:54 PM, September 11th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you,Listening Closely, as always for responding! you are truly using your mistakes to help others out here!


BW (Me)-34,
our 1st baby born 7/6/09
WH-34
EA turned PA 8/08-present
D-Day#1 (1/1/09) false R,
D-Day #2 (3/17/09)said he couldn't stop contacting her; told him to move out
married 3.5 years; together 5
status-WH filed for D 6/14/10

Posts: 615 | Registered: Apr 2009
itspersonal
♀ Member
Member # 24887
Default  Posted: 11:03 AM, September 12th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First I want to thank anyone who reads this post and responds. I am grateful for your desire to help the WS's namely myself. My husbands affair went on for 9 months after D-day. I didn't know this and found out a month ago from his OW. He and I are working hard on things but no IC. He is talking to me and opening up. I am so tired of being sick and tired that I too have moved forward so no punishing going on here. I get it,,,the fog...I know he didn't do this to me! However, we had sex last night and for the second time since nov. our first d-day. He (this may be tmi but here goes)nothing oral goes on from him to me. He almost avoids even the upper part of my body. No mouth to my body contact and I it is NOT what he did for 24 years. He doesn't want to go there with me and that was a HUGE part of us in bed. I go there with him,,,he also is doing everything different...kissing is different,,,well,,all of it...I am overwhelmed with feelings about this. Is he repulsed by me? He must be thinking of her? What is wrong? Do I ask him or bring it up? Am I NOT ENOUGH? I am picking myself apart..please help me understand why this might be if anyone has ever not wanted to "do anything more then hand touching" with their spouse. Please understand that this had NEVER been the case prior to affair. I feel he isn't in it! Could he be thinking of her? I know the fog is gone,,,that I do know! HELP!


me:bs
him: ws
:Got caught in Affair with same Coworker x 2 in 08 and 09: True R and it started with my healing.
3 kids: 16,23,30
PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE, HIDE NOTHING!!!!!! "When someone SHOWS YOU who they are, believe them"

Posts: 172 | Registered: Jul 2009
Weightless
♂ Member
Member # 20799
Default  Posted: 11:54 AM, September 12th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I absolutely think you need to talk to him about it.



Posts: 170 | Registered: Aug 2008
itspersonal
♀ Member
Member # 24887
Default  Posted: 12:14 PM, September 12th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I talked to him about it and his words were "I knew I wasn't adequate for you". He says that I am comparing not him and I need to get over that??? He said that no matter what he does, I have a bad day which I have to say isn't true,,,I have great days most of the time. He said that he was tired and did what he thought I wanted so really I guess that means he wasn't in it. I think I wasn't ready for sex. He says that sex is an act and he has nothing to do with love,,,love is the holding afterwards etc? I think I am in trouble here,,,I don't feel like I can continue doing this,,,I feel so sad..and I feel rejected for some reason. He really has been out of the fog,,,I feel the difference and he says he isn't comparing but I sure am. He is irritable today which surprised me and added to my sense of less then. I imagined a great love making theme and then next day of wow ,,instead he said, "I just can't do it right, I knew something was wrong" ,my expectations are killing me,,,what is wrong here? Help-

[This message edited by itspersonal at 12:20 PM, September 12th (Saturday)]


me:bs
him: ws
:Got caught in Affair with same Coworker x 2 in 08 and 09: True R and it started with my healing.
3 kids: 16,23,30
PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE, HIDE NOTHING!!!!!! "When someone SHOWS YOU who they are, believe them"

Posts: 172 | Registered: Jul 2009
scarredforever
♀ Member
Member # 23875
Default  Posted: 2:19 PM, September 12th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a quick question. Just wondering if the WS's have a memory of the way the OP looked etched in your mind? Do you distinctly remember their facial features, body type, etc.?

I don't know, I am able to remember slight characteristics of boyfriends physical appearances from way long ago, but actually very little in the way of detail.

I just wonder if my H thinks about or remembers the way the OW looked or if he has tried to block it out.

Thanks in advance for any and all answers.


"Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it."

Mark Twain

Me-BS 52
Him-WS 53
Together 33 years

6-5-06 Day of Reckoning

"The acquired inability to escape"


Posts: 1050 | Registered: May 2009 | From: swfl
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 6:27 AM, September 13th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

its personal -

I had similar feelings leading up to and during my A, but not so focused on physical intimacy. I did, however, feel I was in a place where nothing I did for my BW was good enough.

The underlying cause was a need I had for external validation. I was not confident in myself, so I looked to others to approve of me. The result was any time one of my shortcomings was called out, I magnified that 100x.

I had to do a good deal of work in IC to learn how to appreciate myself and not lean on others. This not only included xMOW, but also my BW. I needed to learn how to have a higher level of self esteem in order to have the strength to move forward.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
tryin2smile
♀ Member
Member # 25131
Question  Posted: 6:49 PM, September 15th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WH walked out beginning of June. He denies an affair despite obvious, obvious signs and behavior. I went NC with him the end of July after he accused me of emotional abuse and begged that I just let him go peacefully. Our correspondence has been through text and e-mail and mostly about financial things. He's sent me a few crazy messages in which he accused me of all sorts of things and claimed that he's never hurt me and that my life is still in tact... It seems that he sends these when he doesn't get his way. He's really started to get himself in a bad financial situation - huge credit card and phone bills. I feel like he's confused and hurting but I don't dare say anything for fear he'll lash out at me, again.

I am preparing to move a few hours away to be with my family. WH does not know I am moving, yet. I am really torn as to whether I should confront him again about the affair. Part of me still wants to help him but part of me feels like I'll only be sticking my neck out to be chopped another time. Either way, I'm still moving back home.

Any thoughts about how I should handle this? Just keep 180ing/NCing hard and move home or reach out to him one more time?

[This message edited by tryin2smile at 7:06 PM, September 15th (Tuesday)]


“The soul would have no rainbow had the eyes no tears.”-John Vance Cheney

"The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph." -Thomas Paine


Posts: 189 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: East Coast
itspersonal
♀ Member
Member # 24887
Default  Posted: 9:23 PM, September 15th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you listeninclosely it means so much to have someone who understands the WS process answer my question. I got every word of what you said and unfortunately my WS isn't in therapy even tho he said he would go if I let him stay. I then stepped back and I am allowing him the dignity of being a grown up and making his own choice. His choices today will help make mine tomorrow if that makes sense. I will not force anything on him I just don't believe that works in my favor or his so I am waiting. I hope he comes to a Place where he sees the benefit of IC and maybe reaches a deeper level of understanding of who he is and why he does what he does,,,in the meantime I have people like you to help! Thanks again


me:bs
him: ws
:Got caught in Affair with same Coworker x 2 in 08 and 09: True R and it started with my healing.
3 kids: 16,23,30
PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE, HIDE NOTHING!!!!!! "When someone SHOWS YOU who they are, believe them"

Posts: 172 | Registered: Jul 2009
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:23 AM, September 16th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

t2s -

Any thoughts about how I should handle this? Just keep 180ing/NCing hard and move home or reach out to him one more time?

It's really about what you need than what will enable your WH to come to terms with his actions. If you feel you need one more shot at trying to snap him out of his fog to feel you gave everything you could to the M, then by all means do so.

Knowing that the one thing that snaps a fog is the finality of a choice, I would have that conversation at the moment you are making your change. In other words, be prepared to say "I love you but I respect myself too much to allow anything but a fully open and honest relationship with each other. I will be moving to {place} on {date}. My desire is that you would come with me and work with me to restore what we have together. However, I am prepared to make this move on my own.

I leave the choice up to you. If you want to work on our M, and are willing to do the things needed to make that happen (get into IC, be fully open and honest, provide full transparency to me), then you are welcome to join me. If not, then I will go ahead and make the move on my own.".

Then, be prepared to continue the 180 and make the move by yourself if he chooses to continue to remain in his fog.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
tryin2smile
♀ Member
Member # 25131
Default  Posted: 10:30 AM, September 17th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you Listening. I really appreciate that you pointed out that I need to do what is best for me. That is something I have never been good at.

I opted to NOT put myself out there again by mentioning reconciling etc. I have said so many times in the past that there is absolutely no way he can doubt my interest in working on the M. I compromised myself to the point of looking pathetic and needy. ouch. I can not do that any longer. If he wants to work on the M, he needs to step forward. No longer can I jeopardize my healing. I've done that way too much already.I let him know that he needs to gather his things from the house.

While I feel he is speeding on a train to nowhere good, he needs to get off that train himself. I've tried my best to yank him off, but have only hurt myself in the process.
I just wish I didn't feel so guilty for finally looking after myself.


“The soul would have no rainbow had the eyes no tears.”-John Vance Cheney

"The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph." -Thomas Paine


Posts: 189 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: East Coast
h0ppy
♀ Member
Member # 24581
Default  Posted: 6:05 PM, September 17th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok, I now have a question that I hope any WS can help me answer.
I caught my husband in an EA by checking the phone records (for a legitimate reason) back in June. There were a couple of broken NC before the NC letter was sent but none since (that I know of). Here's my problem... I've asked him to tell me the "story" on numerous occasions. He has told me only the basics. How it started and just the basics of what it was. I need more and have asked him time and time again for it. I tell him that I need details. I need to understand... Every time I ask anything that would be considered uncomfortable for him to answer he says he doesn't remember. He says that I'm wanting to know every conversation and he just can't remember. It's so frustrating! Last night I asked again and this time I got the impression from his answers that he doesn't want to give me any information that I could use against him in a divorce. WTF? I'm not wanting a divorce! I've tried every way that I know how to make him understand that I need this to heal. I want us to move forward and work on the issues in our marriage that got us to this f'ed up place to begin with. He's still in protect himself mode. Any advice out there? Is there something your BS said to you or did to let you know that you were safe. That being honest was the only way to R? He is going to IC but has only had the first appointment so far. His next appointment will be next week. I don't see why he can't tell me the truth now. I'm not asking for him to tell me all of the reason's or the why he did it. I know he has to figure this out for himself. I just want the damn truth. The story! No more of the "I can't remember" bullshit! Help please if you can. Thank you!

Posts: 369 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Texas
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:24 PM, September 17th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

H0ppy -

The answer depends on whether your WS is gaslighting or remorseful. If it's gaslighting, I don't know means I haven't thought up the story to explain that one yet. If it's remorseful, then it's a fear of having to go back to "that place" and face the truth again. I know I wanted to leave it behind as quickly as possible because every time I had to revisit my actions I had to take another guy on what was already a very low self esteem.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
h0ppy
♀ Member
Member # 24581
Default  Posted: 9:06 PM, September 17th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think that's the problem. I don't know which it is. He said that he would write it out for me only after I told him that he could have it back to destroy. That was this morning and he hasn't mentioned it since getting in from work. I may ask about it before bed or I may give him until tomorrow to finish it. I'm just so sick and tired of the selfish behavior. Any advice on what I should do to get the "story" told? Do I just sit and wait until the selfish ass gets good and well and ready to tell it or should I push? I've never done this before but I know that every day that passes I'm getting more at peace with the idea of moving on without him. That's not what I want but I also can't stay married to someone that choses to leave me in this kind of pain for his own selfish reasons. He has the power to help me and I feel like he choses to just help himself. I know that he's dealing with his own emotions and confusion but this is a mess that he's created. I just don't know how to get through to him...

Posts: 369 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Texas
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