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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS"s III
TICKED OFF
♀ Member
Member # 8291
Default  Posted: 7:21 PM, August 26th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"song" you are a very wise WS. As a BS, I agree with eveything you posted about the whys.

You have my admiration for not making excuses for yourslef.

Thank you for your post.


Posts: 2390 | Registered: Sep 2005
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 9:44 PM, August 26th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That's true and I agree with you, Song.

I will go against SI philosophy and say that there is no final answer to "why". No matter what the answer, there will always be another "why" after that. Of course, some answers are more superficial than others, and one can certainly do a lot of introspection and learn a lot about oneself. And certainly, "why?" must be asked.

But, if the answers are everything below and more: family of origin, child abuse, being selfish or narcissistic, having opportunity, thinking BS will never find out, external validation, parents cheated, immature, whatever... there will always be a LOT of people with the exact same issues who NEVER cheat.

Being "selfish" or "because I wanted to" are valid answers, in my opinion.

Now, how does the WS prevent this in the future? Here there is a lot that one can do. Build better boundaries, communicate more, the whole walls and windows thing that Shirley Glass talks about, everything.

And then maintain a healthy distrust, by both parties. This way, you don't take each other for granted, you work on the marriage, and your marriage has a much better chance of being what you want it to be.

No matter what the FWS say their why's it is not enough and keep continuing getting whys. I think the lesson for FWS is to introspect themselves and learned that he/she would never do it again. At that point, it served its purpose.

At the earlier stage of healing process, many are confused and don't know their whys. And my why was selfish and that was my truth.

But deep down, there were many thing making up for the root cause.

I also hear you saying that even there were many who had similiar FOO, BS don't cheat. So using FOO as their why is a cop out or easier way out.


However, with certain cases, if one has the personality disorder (without using this as an excuse or cop out), then he/she needs to want to fix it.

So yes, you are right. It is kind of like FWS is work in process. You keep working on the introspection and at the same time you work on improving marriage, boundary, and yourself.

Kaizen (continuous improvement) approach.

[This message edited by beach at 9:53 PM, August 26th (Wednesday)]


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 9:52 PM, August 26th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

imtrying,

A question - my Wayward Partner and I have broken up, after a False R lasting 9 months, during which, I now know, he slept with another woman in the 2nd month... and who knows what else..
We are unable to have separate residences right now, but we get along fairly well. Yesterday I got very frustrated though, because he has been very lovey-dovey and seductive, and saying that it feels like we are back together and got through the rough times - even though he has done NOTHING that he promised to do in order to show me some concrete change.

He is trickle truthing, and always has. He still blames me for his actions, or says, "It just happened," or etc. Sometimes he sees it, "gets it" but not for long.

My question is this: I got a new confession out of him last night, a small one. Afterwards, he was enraged at me. He yelled at me, stomped off, sent me angry texts for hours, and is cold and distant today.

My first thought is - he didn't tell the whole truth. It involves another woman, one he admitted to sleeping with once. It was just an incidental detail I happened across yesterday, and which he initially tried to side step.

I think he maybe slept with her more than once or it was yet another woman.

But is there another reason he could be so angry about this? He has confessed much bigger things, recently, and I had no angry or negative reaction to the confession last night.

Each WSs is different, and I am not sure.. He confessed on his own, but he became angry.... Hm...

He sounds like moody. If you are R and he is remorseful, he needs to be transparent and open book with you. Keep watching his action, and then wait and see. If suspicious things come out or not...


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
thisisterrible
♀ Member
Member # 24727
Default  Posted: 10:12 PM, August 26th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The thing that is most troubling to me about WH's behavior right now is the way his attitude has changed regarding his children. Prior to the A, he was the most attentive father. Of course he got aggitated once in a while like all parents, but basically he wanted to be with his kids as much as possible. He was always very vocal on how horrible he thought fathers who left their children were.
During the A (before I knew about it) I noticed that he seemed to have a lot less patience with the kids. He was spending less time with them because he was making time to see OW, obviously.

Now WH has moved out and is continuing to see OW. He seems perfectly content only seeing his children for about 6 hours a week. It doesn't seem to bother him that he's missing out on our 1 year old's milestones or that our 5 year old doesn't even question where he's at because he's used to him not being around. He repeatedly told me "the kids will adjust" whenever I asked him to think about how hard this would be on them (before I started doing the 180.)

Is this normal behavior for a WS in an affair? Does the affair change the WS's attitude toward parenting? Does a WS think about the children at all when they are starting the A? Any insight you can provide would be appreciated.


Me:BS Him:WH Two young kids
Married 12yrs - together 20
A started 2/09 - S 7/09 - he filed for D 12/09
I wanted to R and he didn't. He never stopped seeing the MOW, who filed for D 11/09. They've since broke up...for now.

Posts: 541 | Registered: Jul 2009
icbtih8
♀ Member
Member # 23797
Default  Posted: 8:19 AM, August 27th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

any WS cheat on previous relationships? if cheating seems like it has been your MO, do you feel you can/have kick(ed) you bad habit? TIA


D-day #1 - April 29, 2009

Beauty is a calling...a call "to transfigure what has harden or was wounded within you"
-- John O'Donohue


Posts: 5424 | Registered: Apr 2009
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 9:44 AM, August 27th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

imtrying -

But is there another reason he could be so angry about this? He has confessed much bigger things, recently, and I had no angry or negative reaction to the confession last night.

I'm assuming from the way you are sharing your information that your WH is still very foggy. If that's the case, anger can pop out at any time that the walls of his fantasy are broken and the pain of reality is revealed. Even if he volunteered the information, he could still be convincing himself that it's your fault. That the only reason he shared the information is due to your wearing him down over time with your questions.

It's not fair and it's not rational. But not much in the fog makes sense when seen with clarity.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, August 27th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thisisterrible -

Is this normal behavior for a WS in an affair? Does the affair change the WS's attitude toward parenting? Does a WS think about the children at all when they are starting the A? Any insight you can provide would be appreciated.

It certainly can be. While involved in an A, your point of view is very self centered. All you care about is getting your next fix of ego stroking from the AP. That train of thought displaces everything - spouse, kids, job - all you care about is the fantasy. Given another few months, my A would very likely have ended my M, my relationship with my kids and my career.

When focused on the AP, kids are seen as a burden, not a blessing. They prevent the WS from open and free contact with the AP. As a result, any freedom the WS can gain from their kids represents opportunity to get more of their fix.

It's wrong on so many levels, but while in the fog you don't see that.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 10:42 AM, August 27th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

icbtih8 -

any WS cheat on previous relationships? if cheating seems like it has been your MO, do you feel you can/have kick(ed) you bad habit? TIA

Wells was my first true love. I was a total nerd in school, and never had any real relationship before ours. So I haven't cheated on others (not that it's any better that I ultimately cheated on Wells mind you).

Healing really has little to do with an MO though. It's about taking the time to figure out why you don't have healthy coping skills to deal with things that lead toward an A. In my case, getting over a need for external validation and conflict avoidance were the necessary elements to ensure I will never have an A again. I've done that work having had one A. If I had not, I would certainly be susceptible to having another one.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 12:26 PM, August 27th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thisisterrible -

Does the affair change the WS's attitude toward parenting? Does a WS think about the children at all when they are starting the A?

One day I'll ask my husband if my external behavior regarding the children was changed during the affair. As far as internally, in my mind, it never did. They were always first priority.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 12:30 PM, August 27th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ic -

any WS cheat on previous relationships?

As I've learned from my therapy, relationship infidelity has nothing to do with whether you cheat on your taxes or return extra change to the cashier. So, it's not an "MO" or something like that - although it is consistent with what a person is. If you fix the problems, the odds of cheating again are low. If not, they are high. Especially if the WS runs away (divorce, separation, breakup) and does not deal with it.

Like Listeningclosely, Taxi is my first long-term loving relationship; I've never been in a relationship long enough to cheat before. I do see now, however, all the issues that were always there and how they presented themselves in my past relationships.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, August 27th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thisisterible,

I was parenting with autopirot mode. Mine was LTA. During A, beside I worked fulltime, I was also taking two evening classes, and then took kids to their school/church activities.

If your WH still sees OW now, pretty much he is in self absorb mode and not thinking about anyone else.

Keep up your 180. Hugs.


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, August 27th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

icb, I had a BF of 2 years before I got married, but I didn't cheat then. Before that relationship (20 - 22), I had a hand full of ONS.

[This message edited by beach at 2:28 PM, August 27th (Thursday)]


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
lovedance
♀ Member
Member # 25294
Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, August 28th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am going to make this a brief as possible.
In July 2007, got pregnant with DS#2. Moved from CA to AZ.
August 2007, WH started college (he's a marine age 28 at the time)
March 2008, DS born. I bleed and am in ICU for 4 days (I have prior rare life-long medical problem.)Come home from hospital one day, get headache. Go back, I had a stroke and loss my vision.
March-April 2008, in hospital for 3 weeks. WH only comes every few days, then confesses how much he loves me though he doesn't show it when I get home.
March 2008-July 2008, Family (mostly my codependent mom) and friends in house to help and I get my vision back.
May-July 2008, WH in VA for 6 weeks
August 2008, husband starts college again
Sept 2008, start having PPD but don't say anything and think it will go away
Oct 2008, get laid off
Jan 2009, realize I had PPD but thought it went away bc I was feeling better
March 2009, WH "I don't love you and don't want to be married - talking to OW at school.
April 2009, try MC and nothing from WH in terms of working it out
April 2009, WH moves out for 2 months
May 2009, Find out about OW and A and kick him out .WH moves home 1 week later(unknown reason - says he has no where to go)
July 2009, kick WH out again for trickle truth and lies about seeing OW
3 days later comes home crying and wanting to fix things. 2 days later decides he needs to make sure he gets his feelings back for me, but won't do anything loving until he feels it. In MC (one time) says he settled for me and brings up old problems that are already being worked on. blames me for all.
2 days later, leaves again and is still seeing OW. Now we are waiting to sit down together do do divorce (since we agree on everything.)
Why would he not tell me he thought I didn't love him anymore during my PPD? Why, after almost losing me, would he want to give up our family? He hates me now. Did you ever think that your marriage was awful even when the BS was doing everything they could do fix themselves, but you still hated them? Will he ever come out of the fog when he is in SO deep?

Edited to add: when he came home for false R, he said one of the reasons he married me was because I need things for him and built him up. Do you think he's in the A bc I needed him to be there for me during this time of my life and for some reason he couldn't do it? I know that I stopped doing those things for him in my PPD (depression, resentment, loneliness, inability to express my needs, fear, I could go on but PPD is not easy.)

[This message edited by lovedance at 1:21 PM, August 28th (Friday)]


Me-29
WH-31
OW-21
D-day #1 3/2/09
Separated off and on until 12/31/09 when A ended, WH moved home and NC started
Trying to R...I can tell he is starting to "get it."
I left 2/10 and he filed for D 6/10. Only a few more days until it is

Posts: 158 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: CA
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 1:32 PM, August 28th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lovedance -

I can feel the hurt in your post and your husband needs to completely own his own shit. There is nothing that you did that made him have an affair. You have to know and believe that first.

Why would he not tell me he thought I didn't love him anymore during my PPD?

It is very difficult to talk to someone who is depressed. My husband was depressed for awhile and I did not understand it. I did not recognize it, and when he tried to reach out for help, I still did not understand it. But, in my mind, I did try to talk to him. I tried many times until I felt so rejected that I stopped trying.

What I should have done is got in his face and told him that we have issues to deal with. Having an affair was completely wrong and I know that.

Did your husband even try to talk to you about what he needed or about his concerns?

Why, after almost losing me, would he want to give up our family?

Only he knows the answer to this. My guesses are that he will miss his family when he loses them and that he is afraid to face what he needs to do to fix his problems.

What you need to do is get stronger for yourself and your baby. Do the 180. Make him realize that he is the one who loses out if he leaves. Your clinging to him may push him away, so don't. Focus on making yourself stronger both physically (eat well, work out) and mentally (go out with friends, take baby to the park, do play dates). He will realize soon enough what he has lost.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
lovedance
♀ Member
Member # 25294
Default  Posted: 1:49 PM, August 28th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for your reply. No, he did not tell me any of his needs during that time. He withdrew from me too. So we both were not communicating. He also does not believe in depression and thinks everyone should be able handle things. I have just started the 180 for myself and it is helping me everyday to be stronger. I plan on keeping it going :) He won't offer me any answers to anything and just gives me answers as "I don't care. I am divorcing you" or "I'm sick of you." I am finally realizing that I may never know "why."


Me-29
WH-31
OW-21
D-day #1 3/2/09
Separated off and on until 12/31/09 when A ended, WH moved home and NC started
Trying to R...I can tell he is starting to "get it."
I left 2/10 and he filed for D 6/10. Only a few more days until it is

Posts: 158 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: CA
amott
♀ Member
Member # 25063
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, August 28th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There are two things that happened in the ten years I have been married that I often question my husband about.

First, when he finished basic training in the army, he brought a bag home that had a pair of women's underwear in it...he assured me he had no idea how they got there, thought that maybe it was some other guy playing a prank.

Second, on my twenty first birthday he lost his wedding ring. He found it a couple of years later...in our BED!!!. He had lost it on a day that I had been out looking for a job. He claims that he took it off at work the night before to wash his hands and stuck it in his pocket. I asked him if he took his ring off very often and he says never, he doesn't know why he did then. So, my question is...

Why would he take the ring off this time?

And could he be telling the truth?

I mean, he was caught sleeping with my best friend, why would'nt he fess up about these things if there was more? If there was any time to confess, wouldn't this be it? He still maintains innocence in those circumstances.


BS-me 31
WXH-him 36
OW-my so-called best friend
Kids-3 daughters
M-10 years
DDay-5/11/09

It was a ONS while I was asleep in the same house.

Doesn't matter anymore. It's over.


Posts: 581 | Registered: Aug 2009
kitcasey
♀ Member
Member # 24631
Default  Posted: 5:21 PM, August 28th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks to all of the WS's who have posted in this forum. You've been a great help to me and others, and should feel good about that. :)

I have a question about questions for you all. My WH and I have arranged a meeting tomorrow wherein I will ask him questions that I have had about the A, and he will give me straight answers. We talked through some ground rules in MC, including:
-A time limit of one hour, so this doesn't devolve into a painful argument
-Just the facts -- he will answer my questions without trying to explain "why" this happened. -- this was my request, as I feel that this will get the conversation off track.
-He will tell me the truth (Of course I don't have a polygraph or anything -- I'm just trusting him to do this)
-No cell phones, blackberry, or laptop nearby to cause interruption.
-We do not have set plans for tomorrow evening so that either us is free to spend some time alone or with friends if we feel the need to do this.

I think we're both feeling nervous -- actually WH said he is "scared." Does anyone have any advice for me from a WS perspective? How can I make this work for both of us? Did you have a similar conversation with your BS?

Thanks in advance for any advice you might be willing to share.


Posts: 118 | Registered: Jun 2009
1DLW
♀ Member
Member # 21971
Default  Posted: 7:37 PM, August 28th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

icbtih8,

any WS cheat on previous relationships? if cheating seems like it has been your MO, do you feel you can/have kick(ed) you bad habit?

I have cheated in every serious relationship I've had.
It makes me sick to write that, but it is true.
I ran away in every case before.
The difference now? I didn't run, I faced myself and my BH. I have been working on myself and found out why.
For me, being sober in AA for over 9 yrs, I know I can conquer my issues.
I work at my relationship like I work at my sobriety. I need to work on it daily so I never forget.
I read in JFO and General every day. Of course I know the pain this has caused my BH, but reading there really helps me to never forget.
Just like seeing a newcomer in AA and the pain they feel helps keep me sober.
I don't ever want to go back to that.
I can't erase my BH's pain, but I am positive that I will never cause him any more, and I will work every day forever to make him happy.


WS 42

Posts: 483 | Registered: Dec 2008
TICKED OFF
♀ Member
Member # 8291
Default  Posted: 8:36 PM, August 28th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why doesn't a WS just leave the marriage when they make the decision to cheat? They obviously have little respect for the BS and the marriage so why not just leave in the first place?

Posts: 2390 | Registered: Sep 2005
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 9:49 PM, August 28th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TO -

Why doesn't a WS just leave the marriage when they make the decision to cheat? They obviously have little respect for the BS and the marriage so why not just leave in the first place?

For the same reason you don't immediately file for divorce when you find out... Despite everything (being broken, messed up, stupid), there is still love there and something inside is crying out for help.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
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