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User Topic: BS Questions for WS"s III
SI Staff
Moderator
Member # 10
Default  Posted: 8:20 AM, July 22nd (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BS's, please do not answer by proxy for your WS, stick to your situation.

Also, please read in the Healing library, under the BS FAQ's, WS FAQ's and BS for WS FAQ's before posting your question.


Posts: 10000 | Registered: May 2002
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 8:37 AM, July 22nd (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

roccodom -

But like I said - he remorseful at times. The farther away from dday we get the more frustrated and angry he gets when I have continueing questions.

Are you certain there is balance between acknowledging progress and revisiting the knowledge gaps that remain? In order to be motivated to improve, a FWS needs hope. If there is balance between hearing about the good in your lives and the things that still need to be answered to provide a sense of security, that's ok. But if the shift is still heavily targeted at the bad that has to be overcome, it can become easy to be discouraged and to feel like you should just give up and move on rather than be attacked every day.


Especially if I ask him why this won't happen again (after two times) My fear is that things seem to be getting back to a normal life - he slides back into the preA behavior.

The things that will prevent an A from occurring in the future are not necessarily things you will see in "normal" behavior. They are the things you see in the person's character when placed under stress. In my case, the IC work I have done on self esteem has prepared me better for dealing with times when people tell me I have failed them. My work on conflict avoidance has prepared me better for talking through things when Wells and I have a disagreement rather than shutting down, saying she's right with my tail between my legs.

If there is no evidence that these types of changes have happened, that's something that should come out in MC. Talk about the identified weaknesses and specific examples where you have seen a failure to overcome those weaknesses. Avoid generalities such as "I just don't see any change" because I assure you he has done work in some way and a statement like that dismisses the work done to date. It's better to say that you know a past challenge has been self esteem, and that recently when someone attacked his position he didn't stand up for himself.

He will tell me in an extremely frustrated and angry way - I wasn't communicated with you I was stuffing it in addition to a multiple of cirmcumstances to create a perfect storm (this include - poor boundaries with femail coworkders, returning from Iraq and emotionally closed,) but really the main element is conflict avoidance.

I just want to understand this part carefully. Are you saying before he was a conflict avoider and would clam up, but now responds defensively and with anger? Are you giving him feedback that his defensive response is unacceptable? Because if that's the case, he'll revert to being silent. And that, as you know, leads to really bad places.

Instead, consider sharing the book "The Assertiveness Workbook" with him. It does a great job of identifying different responses we have, and ways to balance and provide an assertive response. This avoids responding too far to the extremes (passive or aggressive) while having confidence in who you are as a person.

I don't know - Am I also being unfair and not NOTICING.

I'm not sure if it's not noticing, is not acknowledging.

He just deflect things back like "Oh yeh but YOU blah blah blah

So be the one to cut through the anger. Listen to his response, carefully pick out the message you are hearing, and rephrase calmly for understanding. When what you say back is something he admits is how he is feeling, you can return to talking about how to address the conflict.

I just need help if there is any hope. Does this get anywhere without IC anymore ???

IC would make it a whole lot easier, but you may need to reposition things. Instead of stating he needs to go back to IC (which feels like going back for months or even years when a lot of work was already done), talk about whether or not a session or two to check in might be a good idea. We get physicals with a doctor, our teeth checked by a dentist, why not get our emotional health checked on a periodic schedule as well?


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
uddup
♂ Member
Member # 15995
Default  Posted: 9:43 AM, July 22nd (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Are there any wayward wives hear who had a tough time disconnecting from the affair partner.
My wife has had an affair with the same man for 5 years.

There were problems in our marriage, she disconnected from me and then connected with him.

Things are discovered, she chooses to stay and then she'll have a relapse. We've gone back a forth so many times and she keeps ending up back there.

It's like she's stuck, can't let go of me and can't get over him.

Is there anyone with a similar situation that can give me / her any hope that it is possible for her to ever move on?

Is the only way to get over the OM to let their relationship run it's course?

Any insight or advice would be greatly appreciated.


Me: FBS - 43
FWW: 37 C1: 11 C2: 10


----------------------------
The next spring will be even more glorious for the winter that we endured together.


Posts: 203 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: Toronto - Canada
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 10:00 AM, July 22nd (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi uddup,

Is there anyone with a similar situation that can give me / her any hope that it is possible for her to ever move on?

I am a FWW. 2.5 years out. I don't know how your W met xOM and that if she works with xOM or not... My A lasted 6 + years. My LTA had sexual/emotional addictive nature. xOM was like my drug. I was addicted to him and sex with him. I consider xOM as non existant in my daily life now.

Is the only way to get over the OM to let their relationship run it's course?
No you cannot just let the relationship die on its own. If so, it is going to be endless.

The only way to disconnect (let go) with xOM is to go complete NC (cold turkey) with xOM. Your W must have a willingness to let go completely. And in other words, "Letting go means focus on my side of the equation", too.

If she hasn't been in IC, I would recommend for her to do so, because it may help find out her FOO (family of orgin) and root cause of why.... Or she needs to reconnect her within and dig deeper and find out how it happend. (like writing her own autobiography may help, too)

You can also let her sign up here (SI) and let her read and post in Wayward side and we (FWSs) can support her also. If I was doing on my own, I couldn't have make it. Because of having support network, it was life saver for me.

In addition, I worked on my core issues (abandonment, codependency, and love/sex addiction)

Hope this helps.

[This message edited by beach at 10:07 AM, July 22nd (Wednesday)]


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
uddup
♂ Member
Member # 15995
Default  Posted: 10:44 AM, July 22nd (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for your reply Beach.

She did IC for about 6 months. The were some FOO issues - Though she benefited from some insights I don't think she completly worked through everything though.

She's gone NC several times for durations of a few weeks to maybe 6 months when she was pregnant with our "reconcilliation baby" (bad idea eh?)- she sadly lost the baby and saw that as a sign we were not meant to be and again reinitiated contact with him when he called to see if she was okay.

If things get stressful with us - continued suspicion or depression from me for example, then she ends up going back to him.

Last year she discovered he was engaged. She was distraught. He ended up ending the engagement and began again with my wife after (?) she told me she was done with us and it wasn't because of a 3rd party.

After a few weeks together she ended it with him. They were talking marriage and kids (we have 2 of our own 6 and 8) and getting a home together. She ended it with him when he commented about her weight. She's not really that big but he called her a "bigger girl" and suggested some exercises (she already goes to the gym all the time).

She ended it again and quietly slipped her rings back on her finger. We never discussed it and I let the anger simmer and fester.

This summer she had decided to become a Catholic. I am Cathloic - though not really practicing - and our kids are going through the sacraments to become Catholic and she felt that she wanted to as well.

Apparently the thought of having to renew our marriage in the Catholic church so it's all legit in their eyes freaked her out and she ended up with him again.

Now she is stuck again. Wishing she could have the marriage she always wanted with me but unable to disconnect from him and she doesn't know how to disconnect from him and be happy with me.

It's all so f'd up.


Me: FBS - 43
FWW: 37 C1: 11 C2: 10


----------------------------
The next spring will be even more glorious for the winter that we endured together.


Posts: 203 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: Toronto - Canada
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 11:01 AM, July 22nd (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

uddup,

We never discussed it and I let the anger simmer and fester.

This will cause to resentment, and depression. Start loving yourself and start practicing your self-respect.


Asking and try to connect with higher power is good, but doesn't sound like she has good motive to become a Christian. Besides, adultry is a no-no, right?

Now she is stuck again. Wishing she could have the marriage she always wanted with me but unable to disconnect from him and she doesn't know how to disconnect from him and be happy with me.

When I was stuck, my H was willing to give me D, either xOM or H. I then chose M.

She has unhealthy mind-set, like addicts. You cannot let her decide your M. Staying in A is not fair to all involved (WS, AP, BS and family).
Being in the secretive relationship is disrespecting self. You need to take your power back. Your M deserve the each of love whole heartedly. Right now, she in in R half heartedly. She is putting OM on the pedestal.

Maybe you need to decide if you want to continue this way, or not. If yes, how long... until then maybe you may want to start 180 on her, too....

[This message edited by beach at 11:15 AM, July 22nd (Wednesday)]


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
uddup
♂ Member
Member # 15995
Default  Posted: 11:44 AM, July 22nd (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Beach,

You are spot on. Letting it go untalked about was not a good thing. I knew better but - I don't know why, I just couldn't face another round of talking about it.

She mentioned a few times since this last D-Day that her case isn't one of those "text book cases" of infidelity.

She's "Not out to have a good time with a random person, it's not running out to fill a void to have a good time with a random person."

"My life is is full of
doubts as who knows what choice is best to make. I could learn that I don't really care about him and finally see the light but it's like I'm stuck"

"In my head there is a spot where i honestly don't know what to do. "

I have offered her a D. I am getting all teh gears in motion because if I leave it up to her we will be in limbo forever. At the same time I wish she would choose me.

I'll read up on the 180 again - perhaps that is what's best.


Me: FBS - 43
FWW: 37 C1: 11 C2: 10


----------------------------
The next spring will be even more glorious for the winter that we endured together.


Posts: 203 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: Toronto - Canada
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 12:02 PM, July 22nd (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

uddup,

She's "Not out to have a good time with a random person, it's not running out to fill a void to have a good time with a random person."

"My life is is full of
doubts as who knows what choice is best to make. I could learn that I don't really care about him and finally see the light but it's like I'm stuck"
"In my head there is a spot where i honestly don't know what to do. "

I assume these are your W's quote. She has lots of soul seaching to do.

At the towards to the beginning of ending A, I lost my identity. I was confused myself and didn't know who I was anymore. I felt like I was a hollow Easter bunny chocolate. Having a double life confused myself, depleted myself, and lost my core-self.


I am getting all teh gears in motion because if I leave it up to her we will be in limbo forever.

You are right.
At the same time I wish she would choose me.

I hear you.

180 is not the tactics to make WS come back, but start 180 on her and protect yourself from further hurt.

[This message edited by beach at 12:03 PM, July 22nd (Wednesday)]


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
nothereorthere
♀ Member
Member # 20530
Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, July 22nd (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Listeningclosely, what you said makes me feel a little better. We went to MC for a couple of years. As for IC, he dosen't think he needs it & our MC told him it was his choice. I wish he would give it a try. He also says he will never have another affair. The affair is not front & center for us after 4 years, but when he says or does certain things like that, red flags go up for me. If he would make more of an attempt not to say or do those things, I wouldn't be bringing the affair up at all. He gets upset when I do, yet he says he just forgets & dosen't think how what he says or does will bother me. I would think after all the pain he put us & me through wih the affair that it would be difficult to forget. It's always in the back of my mind & I am careful with what I say or do so I don't hurt him. Our MC told him if it matters to him then he will make it a point to remember & be careful of my feelings. Just the other day we went to his mother's house for a visit. Everytime she's around mje she says something hurtful to me about the affair. Yesterday, she made the comment about a woman we all know cheating on her husband. then she turned and looked at me and said that's worse then a man cheating on his wife. Really? I think it's just as painful for either one. She knows about his affair, yet my husband claims just like him, she just isn't thinking what she is saying. I'd say it's intentional since she makes a comment like that everytime. Last time she asked me if I know that computers are for hooking up & cheating. She knows her son hooked up on the internet when he had his affair. Everytime she does this to me, it brings the affair front & center. My husband just sits there & pretends he didn't hear her. Later, when I mention it to him & let him know that it would help if he spoke up, he defends her. Where do my feelings matter in all this?

Posts: 81 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
cantbreathe09
♂ Member
Member # 24600
Default  Posted: 2:06 PM, July 22nd (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question for FWW's, after NC with xOM and say 6 months to a year do you remember what the xOM was like emotionally and sexually. That is what I'm afraid of, that when I do feel ready to be intimate with my FWW, that she will compare me to(especially endowment) or think about her xOM. Also, how did your BH handle this situation if it bothered them.

[This message edited by cantbreathe09 at 2:17 PM, July 22nd (Wednesday)]


Cry now...smile later.

Posts: 66 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Holloman AFB, NM
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 2:10 PM, July 22nd (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nothereorthere -

Where do my feelings matter in all this?

Right from the start. Two major flaws that I see in what you have shared.

Flaw #1 - Focusing on himself before you. Each time he does something without thinking about how it may affect you, he is acting selfishly. A's are based upon selfish behavior, and this understandably makes you feel insecure. It's only when we can reach a mature love, one filled with acts of selfless care and compassion, that we can truly rule out the potential of an affair taking place.

Flaw #2 - Conflict avoidance. you see it here from WS's time and time again. The question many BS's will bring up is if my WS was not happy, why didn't they tell me? The answer is that they feared the conflict that would ensue if they challenged their BS on things that made them unhappy more than the consequences of an A.

Each time your WH lets his Mom insult you (and through these comments, she is absolutely insulting you), he is avoiding the conflict of confronting his Mother. If he cannot deal with something as basic as asking her to be respectful of the woman he married and keeping the subject of A's off the table with you, how in the world can you trust him to confront you if there are things in your M that are bothering him.

My own feeling is that IC is a must to attack these gaps.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Tried23
♀ Member
Member # 21076
Default  Posted: 2:28 PM, July 22nd (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

cantbreathe09 - I have been complete NC with the OP for 3 mos and last saw him back in July 2008.

After I disclosed the PA aspect of the affair to my husband, it took time before I was ready to be sexually intimate.

It wasn't because I was worried about thinking of the OP during sex it was more wondering if my husband would think about what a horrible disgusting person I was and wouldn't want to have sex.

We talked about this and he assures me he wants to have a sexually active marriage. This has helped me and I try to just relax and not worry (as much) about what is going through his head.

Occasionally, the OP may pop up in my mind but this is in a negative way and I push the thoughts out so I can enjoy what really counts.


Me: FWS (me) 48
Husband: BS 44
Married: 14 Years, 2 kids (14 and 13)
D-Day 1: 07/27/08
D-Day 2: 4/15/09 Same OM
D-Day 3: 3/2/2010 All disclosed
Reconciling

Posts: 375 | Registered: Sep 2008 | From: MN
cantbreathe09
♂ Member
Member # 24600
Default  Posted: 4:45 PM, July 22nd (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for replying Tried23, I'll find a way to talk to my FWW, about this. I'm in IC trying to get past the mind movies as for now I'm not ready.

If any of you have read my profile, my thing is after all that time(+), she gave herself away to another and I feel I deserve that time back.

I've heard of some FWW who say they wait to feel virginized or some sort for there BH's, and I guess that's what I'm wanting. I just can't bring myself to be intimate with her.

Any advice on how to go about telling my FWW this, or will it make her feel undesirable and dirty?

[This message edited by cantbreathe09 at 5:23 PM, July 22nd (Wednesday)]


Cry now...smile later.

Posts: 66 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Holloman AFB, NM
roccodom
♀ Member
Member # 19714
Default  Posted: 12:02 AM, July 23rd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Listenclosely-

First and formost - my thoughts are with you in this difficult time.

Second - as always - much appreciation for your well thought out answers.

I DO act in a loving way toward my FWH. Most of the time - we are really enjoying each other. I also make sure to give him some advance notice that I have issues to talk about. I guess this is why his defensiveness and anger triggers me (more like during false R). But there are so many other things that don't point to false R - transparency, change job, etc. etc. Actually my anxiety has pretty much subsided (I should probably tell him this - it would make him feel better).

I think my FWH really focuses on the negative that is said. Throughout our whole marriage, I have been someone who does share how wonderful I think our life is - how thankful I am. I say this to him. I tell him all the good I see in him - always have. This is what breaks my heart when he focused on the negatives - it floored me. He still does inflate the negative (something he realizes but has to be reminded)

"I just want to understand this part carefully. Are you saying before he was a conflict avoider and would clam up, but now responds defensively and with anger? Are you giving him feedback that his defensive response is unacceptable? Because if that's the case, he'll revert to being silent. And that, as you know, leads to really bad places. "

The above response was eye opening for me. I DO that - you're right! I need to adjust my thinking and not internalize mood when he answers (just tell him how it makes me feel)

Thank you.

[This message edited by roccodom at 12:04 AM, July 23rd (Thursday)]


BS - me (45) WS - him (45)
married 16 yrs (DS 11yrs, DD 9yrs)
#1 PA - DDay 12/97
#2 PA DDay 5/08
#3 PA DDay 2/12
Trying R
Buddhism teaches that a craving for things outside ourselves causes an unhappy and pointless search for security.


Posts: 789 | Registered: May 2008 | From: MO
nothereorthere
♀ Member
Member # 20530
Default  Posted: 12:40 AM, July 23rd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you again Listeningclosely. You have been very helpful as usual. I spoke to my FWH again about him not speaking up with his mother. I asked him if his father had cheated on his mother & I repeatedly brought it up to her, would I be disrespecting her? He thought about it & told me yes I would. I then asked him why then does he just sit there when his mother disrespects me? And where is the compassion for me, his wife, that he shows his mother? He thought about & said he was sorry for handling it so poorly & realizes that it is hurtful to me. He said that he will speak up to her the next time it happens. So we'll see how it goes. He really seemed to get it when we talked about it this time, so hopefully he follows through with it. Thanks for your support.

Posts: 81 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
Tried23
♀ Member
Member # 21076
Default  Posted: 9:48 AM, July 23rd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

cantbreathe09 - I read some of your prior posts and it appears your WS is deep in the fog still. You won't be able to move forward sexually until she moves out of the fog and establishes NC with the OP.

Her coming home is a great step even though it is most likely a baby step for her. I wanted to leave for the OP too but my husband asked me to stay until the kids finished the school year and then decide what to do.

I'm so glad he gave me that option as I was able to observe first hand how our relationship could be put back together. I on the other hand remained in contact with the OP.

Finally, after 8 months I realized I wanted to stay and went full NC with the OP and have been honest and upfront with my husband on all accounts. We just started MC and I still am working on rebuilding my feelings for my husband. I know that I couldn't have provided a sincere "I'm sorry" while still in the fog.

It sounds like there are many more issues than sex that need to be worked out.

If you eventually feel that your BS is being honest and truthful, your sexual feelings will most likely return. It will take time!! We are focusing on this in MC and know that we can get back a healthy sexual relationship.


Me: FWS (me) 48
Husband: BS 44
Married: 14 Years, 2 kids (14 and 13)
D-Day 1: 07/27/08
D-Day 2: 4/15/09 Same OM
D-Day 3: 3/2/2010 All disclosed
Reconciling

Posts: 375 | Registered: Sep 2008 | From: MN
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 6:55 PM, July 23rd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question for FWW's, after NC with xOM and say 6 months to a year do you remember what the xOM was like emotionally and sexually....Also, how did your BH handle this situation if it bothered them.

FWW here.....i've had NC with xOM since April and with the exception of the occasional fleeting thought, i don't think about him and never, EVER, have i compared him with my BS. there is no comparison - emotionally or physically. if this bothered my BS at all, he never led on about it. our sex life isn't as active as it was pre d-day, but i think that has to do more with his not being able to look at me like he used to and my being weighed down with guilt and shame. xOM isn't a factor...no way are we going to give one person who really is a POS, that much power...


FWW - 40
Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent...

Posts: 5528 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
kitcasey
♀ Member
Member # 24631
Default  Posted: 3:38 PM, July 24th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all. Thank you to all of the WS's who have posted in this forum. Your posts have been invaluable to me as I have dealt with my WH since Dday in early June. I commend all of you.

Here's my question: During the A, did any of you feel a sort of thrill at tricking your BS? Was that ever part of the dynamic of the relationship between you and the OP? I would appreciate any honest responses you could provide. Thanks in advance.


Posts: 118 | Registered: Jun 2009
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 3:42 PM, July 24th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

kitcasey -

During the A, did any of you feel a sort of thrill at tricking your BS?

Good heavens, no! It was eating me alive. I was crying at the drop of a hat, I could not talk to H, I was a complete mess. All this at the same time I was in the throes of the addiction. No, there was no thrill at all.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
onlysolution
♀ Member
Member # 23160
Default  Posted: 5:32 PM, July 24th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

kitcasey
During the A, did any of you feel a sort of thrill at tricking your BS?

NO,NO,NO. I felt sick about doing that and at times it felt so unreal I could not believe that it was me doing what I was doing. I also was friends with the OP's spouse and I felt the same disbelief there.


FWW: Me 52
BH: 54
Married 34 years
Recovery - Over 4 years

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