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User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts 4
TooManyYears
♀ Member
Member # 26108
Default  Posted: 3:40 PM, November 28th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No, I don't believe that my H has NPD. In fact, I don't think he has a PD at all. He grew up in a house where every kind of abuse you can imagine took place. This harmed him immensely, and his SA became his coping mechanism when he was still in elementary school. I don't believe that in any way this excuses his behavior. He still made choices to hurt me and himself. He has known he is an addict for years, but just knowing is not enough.

I know that everyone's situation is unique, but I would be willing to bet that 99.9% of the spouses here would tell you that this addiction requires PROFESSIONAL help. I think that being supportive is great, but remember, they are masters of deception. You have been deceived before, do you really think you couldn't be deceived again? The trend seems to be that addicts who successfully recover and move on utilize a CSAT and a 12 step approach. If my H was not doing those things, I would not even think about reconciliation. Again, JMHO. If your H really has NPD (and he would have to be diagnosed by a therapist), he needs professional help.

Perhaps I am biased by my background in health care, but I believe that for a SA to actually get help, they need more than just their wife. My H has desperately wanted to change many times in his life (just because I am a newbie here, does not mean I am new to his addiction), but until he almost lost everything due to the escalation of his behaviors, he was not willing to do the things he really needed to do....become accountable and get support from others. I have seen real changes in the last 2 months related to him seeing his CSAT, reading the Carnes books, and going to his SAA group. I know we have a long ways to go, and relapses may happen, but as long as he sticks to this, it gives me hope. In the meantime, I am working on my own co-dependency and issues.


Me- 40
H, rSA- 46
2 young adult children
Married 21 years
Last D-day 9/19/09 (Many before this)

Posts: 496 | Registered: Nov 2009
moreroses
♀ Member
Member # 26283
Default  Posted: 6:22 AM, November 29th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm really sorry there was abuse in your husband
's background. I can't even come to terms with any kind of abuse. We don'thave that here. In fact , some may argue he isn't a sex addict at all just a cake eater who made some very bad choices.

If you would like to write about your husband's theraphy or anything else here, I'm interested.Just the same I do see this thread as support for me.What do you mean by co-dependency?

It's going good for us.


BW;Me
DDay;2-14-08 when former ow decided to enlighten me about previous A
marriage rebuilt, felt rebuilt at 2 1/2 yrs out
long marriage with 4 kids

"And the stars that we could reach were just starfish on the beach"-French folksong


Posts: 1399 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Northeast
ShatteredAndDone
♀ Member
Member # 26067
Default  Posted: 11:05 PM, November 29th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK, I knew this thread was here. Even posted at one point that I thought I might need to be here and would be back. But I never came back, until now. I have been avoiding this thread like the plague. I keep seeing posts directing people here and thinking I should read it too. But I could never bring myself to click on the link.
I know WS is an SA. I am doing the reading, finding the groups (no luck so far), seeing my IC. WS is doing his part too; 12 steps, reading, therapy. So, in general, I have accepted this new reality. Started trying to figure my way through it. WHY am I avoiding the people who could most help me on this board?? I am not sure. SI has been a tremendous help in dealing with the affairs in general. It stands to reason the help I could find on this thread would be what I need as well. Yet I avoid, avoid, avoid. Is this normal? Am I not really accepting my new reality? I KNOW I am scared, but geez, I can't even READ a thread!?!?
OK, enough rambling, here I am.
<wave>

[This message edited by ShatteredAndDone at 11:14 PM, November 29th (Sunday)]


Never make someone your priority, when they only make you an option.
Trust the instinct to the end, though you can render no reason. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Posts: 1476 | Registered: Nov 2009
1Forward1Back
♀ Member
Member # 11057
Default  Posted: 7:28 AM, November 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shattered&Done,
It was easier when I deluded myself into believing all I had to deal with was the affair. I knew on some level it really was about the SA, but I also knew that battle would be life-long. After 3 to 5 years, I would be sufficiently healed from the affair and life would be 'okay'. Not so with SA. I focused on the A for way too long. I think that was my mind's way of avoiding the reality of life with an SA. It's scary business!


Me: 60 Yrs. (BS)
Him: 60 Yrs.(FWH- life long sex addict)
-2 ONSs followed by an A-2005/06
-cheated while we were engaged
-seems to stray every 30 years or so
D-Day-June 10, 2006
Working on own recovery. His is his!
Married: 37 yrs. Grown ch

Posts: 966 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Canada
ShatteredAndDone
♀ Member
Member # 26067
Default  Posted: 9:03 AM, November 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think that is pretty much what is going on for me 1F1B. I know, I just don't want to know. I am SO scared right now with the thought of going through R and all of the work/pain that entails and all of the "what if's" for down the road. My H is very dedicated to staying sober and his recovery. Right now. But what about a year from now? Five? Ten? I get so scared and physically ill when I start to let myself really think about what being married to an SA means.


Never make someone your priority, when they only make you an option.
Trust the instinct to the end, though you can render no reason. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Posts: 1476 | Registered: Nov 2009
lost2chaos
♀ Member
Member # 25794
Default  Posted: 10:48 AM, November 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WH is not a NPD. He does not have a PD at all. He is Bipolar I though. And, that is the very reason his Psych says he is not technically a SA.

His actions were totally that of an addict. And, he absolutely had the compulsivity at play. But, he doesn't have an intimacy disorder.

Its kind of hard to explain. The more I research and try to understand, the more I get what his Psych is saying but the more I get angry too.

It often seems to be that if I accept this was uncontrolled Bipolar, then he's not responsible for his actions. I mean, isn't insanity even a legal defense???

I feel he is 100% responsible for what he did. And, thankfully, he is taking responsiblity. He is not blaming his mental disease. And, he's doing ALL the steps he's supposed to be doing as an SA.

But, what I can tell is that if his Bipolar destabilizes, he'll immediately go back into the compulsive thoughts which lead to his seuxally acting out.

His safeguard for that is continuing in SA group, having accountability partners and committing to 100% transparency and honesty to myself and his Psych. He swears if he starts to head down that road again, he will call and TELL me before he acts out. Says he gets that the lies are what nearly destroyed us.

And, it all sounds good and fine. But, right now he's STABLE. Is he really going to be singing that same tune when he's NOT stable???

I told him this weekend that I know he's going to sleep with another woman again in our lives. I told him that what I have to answer is not will he remain faithful to me now, because I don't believe he will. But, what will I do when he cheats again.

He seemed shocked and hurt. But, come ON. In the last 5 years he's slept with over 3 dozen women and lied through his teeth to me. In those 5 years he frequented escorts, prostitutes, CL hookers, ONSs from Friend Finder and a dag-gone affair with a cow at his work that he found repulsive outside of her offer for NSA sex...oh and every massage parlour this side of the city!

He can be sober. He can fight for recovery. He can tell me he's done with that all he wants. I don't believe him. I just don't. And, I don't know if I ever will!

Oh, about the childhood abuse issue. WH was physically and emotionally abused by his mother basically his entire life. We always knew that. More bizarre was that she always had this boundary issue with him whereby she put him in the position of her spouse emotionally. Our entire M, he has diligently worked to make healthy boundaries on that issue.

We both thought he was successful until MIL found out about his dalliances. She has behaved as if he cheated her ON and not me.

First, she admitted to me that she has always known he was molested by his step-father when he was 5. Then, when he had the gall to be ANGRY about that information, she went ballistic about how all of this just hurts HER too much. She disowned him for betraying HER.

I cut all contact with her for our entire family. I did it deliberately and in a way she won't come back. And, I explained it to WH. He's got a lot of issues to work on. He does NOT need to shoulder her nor her issues at this point in his life. If there is ever to be a relationship between them again, it must be on his terms and his seeking it. I made sure she will never seek him out again and if he wants to repair the relationship with her, he can easily blame me and have that relationship restored. But, unless he wants and he seeks it out, her antics could destroy him. Its just too much for him to handle now.


BW33, fWH33 (alongroadback),and 8 children.
D-day#1 9/23/09 D-day#2 10/3/09
Sobriety 9/23, R-1/12/10 the work begins...??

Posts: 286 | Registered: Oct 2009
IRN2006
♀ Member
Member # 23717
Default  Posted: 11:16 AM, November 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think that is pretty much what is going on for me 1F1B. I know, I just don't want to know. I am SO scared right now with the thought of going through R and all of the work/pain that entails and all of the "what if's" for down the road. My H is very dedicated to staying sober and his recovery. Right now. But what about a year from now? Five? Ten? I get so scared and physically ill when I start to let myself really think about what being married to an SA means.

Shattered-
There are NO guarentees in life-when addiction is present or when it is not present.

If one takes addiction out of the equation..there are no guarentees that in 5 years one will have a job, a house, or good health.

Actually, one of the best things I've learned from my husband's addiction is being OK with taking things one day at a time. It's OK. I experience much less anxiety now, and it's really a good thing.

I don't have fears about the future of my marriage because I have boundaries in place, and I am able to follow through on my boundaries.

My boundary is that if my husband relapses, I'm divorcing.

I'm in a position to follow through on my boundary, as I bring in 80% of our household income. I also have a savings account in my name only that can be used for obtaining a lawyer and/or setting up a new household.

If I were unemployed, under-employed, or didn't have any savings, I wouldn't be in a position to follow through on my boundary-and my boundary would be useless.

I also now trust myself enough that I KNOW I will know if/when my husband acts out again. I may not know right away, but I'll know eventually.

Yes, living with a recovering addict of any kind is risky business. I understand I must make calculated risks in my life. For me, it is OK, as the benefits outweigh the risks. Just for today. Tomorrow may be different.


Posts: 1295 | Registered: Apr 2009
lost2chaos
♀ Member
Member # 25794
Default  Posted: 12:37 PM, November 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have to agree IRN2006. I have been a SAHM for 12 years now. The reason we are moving and both WH and I are going back to school is *because* I need to know I can stand on my own feet, no matter what he does with his life and his choices.

Once we are moved in January, the finances are tight but are also funds that *I* bring into the family, not WH. If he stays, he gets to follow his dreams just as surely as I do.

But, if he goes, I still stand, I still provide food, shelter and education for my children. And, in a few years I provide more income than he was providing so we will NOT face a life of poverty in any way, shape or form.

I was actually just telling my father today that I feel like I can breath again. First of January, I have a job, I have income and I have financial aid. At that point, I know that I can care for my children and myself no matter what life does or does not bring at us.

These last several months have been horrible in the sense that caring for the physical needs of these children is something I have had to trust a man with whom I simply no longer trust.

I do hope and pray he has a wonderful future. I would prefer he have that future with US. But, I cannot control his choices, nor his actions. I need to take care of this family, whether he stands with me in that endeavor or not. And, in one month, I start doing exactly that.

I feel a great peace about my future. And I feel a huge burden lifting from my shoulders now. Now, we can work on whether he stays because he WANTS to, not how to feed and clothe these children depending upon what he does.


BW33, fWH33 (alongroadback),and 8 children.
D-day#1 9/23/09 D-day#2 10/3/09
Sobriety 9/23, R-1/12/10 the work begins...??

Posts: 286 | Registered: Oct 2009
ShatteredAndDone
♀ Member
Member # 26067
Default  Posted: 12:37 PM, November 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IRN2006, powerful and to the point. I know there are no guarantees. Realistically I know that. In my head I accept that, my heart, not so much. But I know I am still fresh off d-day and the SA knowledge in general. We are going to his CSAT tonight and I look forward to working all of this out. One day at a time.


Never make someone your priority, when they only make you an option.
Trust the instinct to the end, though you can render no reason. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Posts: 1476 | Registered: Nov 2009
TooManyYears
♀ Member
Member # 26108
Default  Posted: 3:23 PM, November 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IRN2006

I applaud you. That is a pretty tough boundary, and you are obviously prepared. I haven't really defined my bottom lines yet. I meet my new IC on 12/10, and I have been thinking about these things. I have done the math, because after d-day (this one) I was going to leave him and file. I could afford to stay in our house on my wages (I am an RN, too), but it wouldn't be a comfortable lifestyle, as he does bring in a good sized check, too. For now, he is actively involved in recovery, but I am not sure how I will handle a relapse. I am not sure that I can draw the line in the sand. Yes, that sounds pretty damn weak. And I hate to sound so cynical, but I think a relapse will come. My trust has been eroded by years of living with a SA, the lies and promises. I really need to work on my co-dependency issues and restore my self-esteem. I am hoping this new IC will help. She works with wives of SA's and was recommended by my H's CSAT.

Lost2chaos

*Big hugs* I know how it feels waiting for the other shoe to drop, anticipating that he will screw up again. While my H is doing really well in his recovery so far (it has only been 2 months), I know that the big test will come in a time of crisis. This has been his coping mechanism for over 30 years. It is hard to just change that. My H's family is very toxic, and we have put a lot of distance between us and them through the years. I think the holidays are hard, because that is when they try to contact him, and he feels that sense of loss all over again.

I think it is great that you are working on becoming self-sufficient. I have really stressed that to my daughters. I have told them to prepare themselves for a career and never feel you have to depend 100% on a man. I know that is my cynicism speaking again. Unfortunately, my teenage daughters do have some knowledge of what is going on, and they are utterly disgusted. I think this has really harmed their views on marriage and family life. I feel sad about that. I don't know that they will ever want to get married and have kids. My H's CSAT says that they need counseling down the road, too. They are not open to that right now. My H's September shenanigans cost him a lot, including the respect of his children, and they were the final straw for me, too.

1F1B

I think that may have been one of the few blessings (!) about my situation; my H was not involved in an affair. There was absolutely no emotional entanglement for me to speculate about or dwell on. There isn't another OW for me to hate, because right or wrong, I see this OP as a victim, too. I really don't want to elaborate. Yes, SA is a life long battle, and one that wears us down. I can see where it would be easier to focus on some OP and hate them, but our anger and disappointment belongs firmly with our H's. They are the one that introduced us to this sordid world of SA.

ShatteredAndDone

*Big Hugs* to you. It looks like the world of SA is pretty new to you. Sorry you have had to join us. I think this is a great place to get support. I have known my H is a SA for many years, but up until I joined here, I have never had a place to talk about it. It is a dirty little secret that we all hide because we don't want our friends and family to know that our lives are not so perfect or that our self-esteem has been eroded by rejection and lies. Image management is a big part of co-dependency. I have done it for years.

I don't think you are alone in that NONE of us wanted to accept this reality. I remember when I first realized that my marriage was flawed in a way that could not be fixed easily. That was 14 years ago, and I was only 21 years old and knew I was married to a man who would never find me to be enough for him. How depressing. At that point, I was financially dependent on him (a college student), had two children, and we were building a house. I have tried everything you read about in the books...shaming, yelling, controlling, monitoring, accommodating, putting my head in the sand, minimizing, rationalizing, etc. You get the picture. NONE of it changed him. He just took his behaviors underground and became a master of deception, all the while maintaining an image of being a great family man and being fairly successful at work. I am working on living more like IRN2006 suggests, one day at a time, letting go of the anxieties that I have carried for years. Taking better care of myself. I need to work on my own issues of workaholism, self-medicating with food or alcohol, and co-dependency. It is scary to have to face my own problems, too. I think for years I have just been so focused on his problems (and they are huge) that I have avoided my own.

Good luck meeting with his CSAT tonight. I really like my H's CSAT. He is the first therapist that my H has ever seen who really gets it. It is so nice to feel like there is help and hope.


Me- 40
H, rSA- 46
2 young adult children
Married 21 years
Last D-day 9/19/09 (Many before this)

Posts: 496 | Registered: Nov 2009
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 4:12 PM, November 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Okay, I am trying to respond to several questions from the last page and a half.

I don't know that you can tell a sex addict just by looking, there is a lot that goes into making a true diagnosis. However, my SA did have some classic behaviors that after I learned about them, I noticed.

He would scan. That is, when we were out, very, very subtly he would notice every woman and their major body parts. He would constantly check out boobs, especially if the shirts were low cut. But it was hard to catch him doing that, he was very discreet. Now that we have split up, my mil told me he has bought binoculars to watch from his condo on the beach. Nice.

I actually had a reverse reaction when I discovered that my WS had this illness. At first, I felt relief, that the women he was going after weren't intended to replace me, they were just part of his sickness. But then, I did learn how extensive this disease is, and how much hard work goes into healing. But I was still willing to stay if he had committed to recovery. Obviously, he did not.

Mine also has more personality problems, than just addiction. His mom and sis think he is bipolar, because of his moodiness, and his impulse control problems. I can't make a total diagnosis of NPD, but I am seeing more and more signs of it as I look back and remember how self-oriented he was. However, addicts by their very nature have a tendency towards self-centeredness. Addiction is a very selfish disease.

I am very slowly considering sociopathy, for him, (I am having a hard time with that one, as my H before him was a diagnosed sociopath). They are different in many ways; however, in school my research paper assigned was on antisocial personality disorder, and doing MORE research on this, I am seeing that a lot of the time I felt my WS was being empathetic, it was more of a show to let others know what a "good" person he was.

He would be very giving, and help others, but he had to make sure others saw him do it.

Me, I can put money in the salvation army kettle, and I am almost embarrassed if anyone actually sees me doing it. I like to help others, but have no need for anyone else to know. When we were together, and I would do something nice for someone, he would take credit. I would let him, as I figured he apparently had the need for recognition.

So, I don't know, it is still something I am working on. I do know that borderline personality disordered people can be sexually promiscuous, that is a part of that disorder, but I don't know if it goes hand in hand with some addicts or not.

But it would not surprise me at all for someone to have more than one mental illness, that appears to be quite common.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14918 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
watchingU
♀ Member
Member # 22144
Default  Posted: 4:18 PM, November 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've been reading all the recent posts and feeling so sad and helpless. My SAH and I had a big big fight last night. It was all because I asked him to hold me and tell me he loved me prior to sex. He said he wasn't going to beg and that I've been throwing it up to him for two years and he has heard enough. (I've tried to explain to him that 18 months of trickle truth and now less than zero trust in him would cause me to have a hard time accepting that he has been SA our entire life together but has suddenly changed and stopped his compulsions.)
I believe with all my heart that my SAH has mental problems that are beyond help. Why can't I just accept that and let go?? Why do I torture myself day after day, trying to see hope where there is none??
He makes me feel like a non person, an invisible person to him. But he denies it and says it's just my imagination. I think he is doing it on purpose and it is just SICK. Yet I let it continue. I mean, how do you stop it, when someone denies they are doing it?
Will someone share with me if you have felt like this? Do you try to hope for something that will never happen, and you know it, but you continue to hope anyway? And all the while you are suffering, but you can't seem to stop. And I know the only way to peace is to separate from him but I CAN"T bring myself to do it. I am so weary of this new reality. My mind is tired, my body is tired and I am just drowning in sadness. My SAH says he has changed, but that's the only discussion I am allowed. He does no IC MC or SA, no reading, NOTHING. And he spews anger towards me.
He says it's time to move on, put it in the past, never talk about it again. If I do ask questions, the anger he spews is unbelievable. This from a man that seemed to have NO ANGER for 40 years together. I see now that he was 'drugged' on his SA the entire time and now that he has been revealed, the anger is all that is left of him. It was there all along, he just medicated it with SA.
So I am dealing with finding out he cheated the entire marriage, and now on top of that, this huge anger from him. I am ashamed to say it, but sometimes I wish he would die. I don't know how to cope with all this pain.
Somebody tell me if you ever feel like that and how you handle these kind of days.

WU


BW me 60(naive until 3/30/07 Dday)
WH 60(PA w/SIL PA with neighbor, 100's of EAs,chat rooms, M 1969
Multiple Ddays over the past 4 yrs (about prior infidelities, not new ones) My Gut says WH Has cheated thruout M

Posts: 520 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: South
TooManyYears
♀ Member
Member # 26108
Default  Posted: 4:45 PM, November 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

watchingU

Your gut is already telling you! How we like to silence ourselves and put our head in the sand. I know because I have been there so many times. When you have that feeling, you KNOW the truth. I think most of us have that 6th sense. He is gaslighting and blame shifting! The anger, hostility, etc. it is all an act to throw you on the defensive. You KNOW that he is not doing anything to actively participate in recovery. My H never wanted to talk about it before he entered recovery, either. It is a sick game they play. They just know they need to throw us off the scent, make us doubt ourselves, and go underground with their behavior, so they don't get caught next time.

This must be really hard for you. You have been married longer than I have been alive. You could be my mother. These SA's DON'T just change. My H has tried many times to change on his own. It is like a drunk that quits for awhile. If they don't deal with their issues, they just go back to it. Dealing with their issues involves therapy and accountability. Your H is not demonstrating any of these things.

What can you do for yourself right now? Are you in counseling, a group, or doing any reading? You can't make him change, but you can take care of YOU. You are worth more than being raged at. You don't deserve this. Take care of yourself! *Hugs*


Me- 40
H, rSA- 46
2 young adult children
Married 21 years
Last D-day 9/19/09 (Many before this)

Posts: 496 | Registered: Nov 2009
TooManyYears
♀ Member
Member # 26108
Default  Posted: 5:01 PM, November 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NaiveAgain

I am sure that some SA's do have personality disorders, as people with PD's tend to be wired differently and more prone to addiction. As for sociopaths, I am not sure. One of the Carnes books makes a point that all predators are not SA's and all SA's are not predators.

Interestingly enough, I (and my H, too) believe my father-in-law is probably a sociopath. He is a child predator, has spent time in prison, and has probably even murdered someone (not something we can confirm). He is cold, calculating, predatory, violent, and remorseless. I don't see my H as a sociopath. He really does have remorse, and not just because I would leave him. Even his CSAT believes that he is putting in a sincere effort.

I don't really put a lot of stock into diagnosing people by reading about disorders. I think there are times some one could look at me and think that xyz disorder fits because....fill in the blank. A trained psychologist/psychiatrist needs to make a diagnosis. As a nurse, I can suggest things to a doctor and let him know my observations, but it is up to him/her to diagnose and treat. I think it is interesting to read up on diagnoses and look at patterns, but the bottom line is that the SA needs to get professional help to be diagnosed and treated for the SA and any other PD they may have. Otherwise, it is just an academic exercise for us. JMHO.


Me- 40
H, rSA- 46
2 young adult children
Married 21 years
Last D-day 9/19/09 (Many before this)

Posts: 496 | Registered: Nov 2009
1Forward1Back
♀ Member
Member # 11057
Default  Posted: 6:02 PM, November 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think that may have been one of the few blessings (!) about my situation; my H was not involved in an affair. There was absolutely no emotional entanglement for me to speculate about or dwell on. There isn't another OW for me to hate, because right or wrong, I see this OP as a victim, too.

I think I needed this part of the whole equation though, so in a sense, it was a blessing. I've known my H had SA for most of our marriage. I just didn't know how bad it was or perhaps that it was even an addiction. It took an A for me to open my eyes, because his A also involved a love addiction.

Whatever, this 'competition' with an OW did more for me in terms of getting right to the core of my very, very low self-worth. I knew I had issues with self-esteem, but never, ever would I imagine it went that far. It forced me to really look inside. Through IC & lots of work on myself, I evolved into someone I didn't knew existed.

My marriage isn't much better than it was before D-Day. H thinks it is, but he's living in la-la land. I've become more and more outspoken with him about not loving him any more than I would a brother. But he's still using. I know he is. I'm just putting in time here. It's convenient for me to stay for the time being. I will be finished my Master's degree fairly soon. I am working at paying off my debt. He's sinking deeper and deeper into...I'm not sure what it is. He forgets appointments again and again. He asks me to remind him of appointments, but I tell him I have enough to remember. That's up to him. He doesn't feel well most of the time. He thinks it's being too busy, or the depressing weather or whatever. I tell him exactly what it is. I almost feel like he is going to die soon if he doesn't get real. He's had one heart attack and his heart is acting up more and more. And I feel bad that I won't feel all that bad if he does die. I know me leaving might smarten him up, but I'm not sure I care enough to do that for him. It's too much work for me and I have other things on my plate right now. So I know why I'm here and I know eventually I will have to act.

Anyway, such is life. Overall, I am quite content and do enjoy life. It's not always easy, but the SA is his problem. I refuse to put in any more work with it.


Me: 60 Yrs. (BS)
Him: 60 Yrs.(FWH- life long sex addict)
-2 ONSs followed by an A-2005/06
-cheated while we were engaged
-seems to stray every 30 years or so
D-Day-June 10, 2006
Working on own recovery. His is his!
Married: 37 yrs. Grown ch

Posts: 966 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Canada
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 6:38 PM, November 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't really put a lot of stock into diagnosing people by reading about disorders.
Me neither. I think it helps a lot if you actually live it. Nothing like real-life experience. If you want to know what an alcoholic is like, ask the alcoholic's wife.

Also, I don't believe every SA has another personality disorder, I just know mine does.

1f1b - I'm sorry that your H never really truly got it, I believe mine will eventually keel over also, because he lives a very unstable life, and I know at his core he is not happy with himself. I am glad, though, that you have done a lot of inner work and are happy with where you are. That is major!

ETA: Oh, I'm sorry, I realize there are a lot of newer people that don't know my history. Before my SA, I was married to a diagnosed sociopath. I tricked him into going to a psychiatrist, and he was diagnosed with sociopathic tendencies. I have probably put in over a hundred hours of research into this subject, way before I even went to school and got assigned APD for a research paper. That is why I do not really want to see it in my SA, I hate the idea that I ended up with two of them, that is a scary thought for me, and I have been resisting it, although I have started thinking about that a year ago, as I have noticed way too familiar signs.

[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 6:42 PM, November 30th (Monday)]


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14918 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
somer222
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Member # 21377
Default  Posted: 8:04 PM, November 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Ladies,

I don't post much in S & A, but my ex is a SA. My IC thought his SA was driven by N but I think he more closely resembles a sociopath, perhaps even a psychopath than anything else.

I'd be interested in your thoughts on this, as I'm still perplexed, even though our marriage ended a year and a half ago. He presents himself as the nicest man in the world. Good looking, quiet and reserved. He boasted of how innocent he was when we met. He was divorced from his HS, said he never dated much, etc. Said his ex cheated on him. I was so happy to marry a man with so little mileage!

The truth is that He screwed around on his first wife for 25 years. I didn't know this until D day. I bought into his sweet and innocent nice guy routine for over five years! He could win an acadamy award.

Right after we married, he quit his job and wanted to be self employed. And every year it was something new - some get rich quick scheme that cost a lot of money to get into. He would literally throw a fit like a little kid if I said no. I was really tired of his self employment issues, as he had way too much free time and it wasn't fair to me. I was working trying to make up for what he wasn't doing. I was exhausted.

I was totally unaware he was in the midst of an affair with a stripper when he talked me into going to a "life coach" to improve our lives.

He picked out the Life Coach and he had her in the palm of his hands. For two months, we went to weekly sessions that involved him telling me he thought we'd be a lot happier if I sold out my business and we moved to a very remote location out of state. He said he was tired of seeing me stressed out from working so hard. The LC told me I needed to do what he was asking me to do and that I was so lucky to have a man who loved me so much! They both worked on me and I didn't want to leave my family or my business! I didn't understand why he wanted to move so badly. And he had absolutely no plans on how we would survive financially once we got to this remote area. There were no jobs there! The money from the sale of my business would be gone fast. I explained that to him and the LC and they simply weren't hearing what I was saying.

Well, D day came before it was too late for me, thank God. The stripper called me and I was mortified. She told me he was a psycho and she wanted him to leave her alone. Turns out she was blackmailing him, too. Nice.

He wanted to R and I was freaking out, knowing that something really, really bad was wrong with him. I couldn't get away from him fast enough.

I found evidence he had other strippers (simultaneously) while he was seeing the one who called me. This had been going on for a long time. That is what he did all day while I worked. Instead of working at the business I set up for him, he was out playing nearly every day.

Now he has hooked up with some other woman and I don't know if they've married or not, but I'm sure she is a lot poorer, but thinking he is a great guy!

Any insight on this kind of behavior would help so much. Thanks!


Posts: 1311 | Registered: Oct 2008
sinned badly
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Member # 8168
Default  Posted: 8:10 PM, November 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

[This message edited by sinned badly at 4:59 PM, December 1st (Tuesday)]


Me- FWW (54)
FBH- (toonyne) (56)
2 affairs 1976 & 1982, 2 ONS, and that's only the beginning

Posts: 322 | Registered: Sep 2005 | From: canada
somer222
♀ Member
Member # 21377
Default  Posted: 9:11 PM, November 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I did read what you posted. My ex had a wonderful childhood and a loving, intact family. If anything, he had excessive adoration from his parents and extended family.

I can't figure out what went wrong with him but his cheating, lying and manipulating have been a problem throughout his entire adult life. If anything, I think it has to do with the fact that the world in general isn't as nice and easy of a place as his parents made for him.


Posts: 1311 | Registered: Oct 2008
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 5:20 AM, December 1st (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OMG somer, he sounds like my WS's twin! Mine also quit his steady jobs, went from one get rich scheme to another, I found out he moved around a lot, since we split up, he has moved 3 times now.....also presented himself as a wonderful family man, with low mileage, talked down on men that went to strippers and porn, presented himself as a totally different person than he truly was.

One of the signs of APD (sociopathy) is financial instability, and moving around a lot (they have to, because people catch on sooner or later.)

Mine was so so good at the crocodile tears. He cried a lot! In the beginning, I thought, wow, this guy who has been thru so much, he has such a tender heart. After I wised up, I realized he could turn them on and off like a faucet, and it was another means of manipulation that he used.

You are particularly more vulnerable to sociopaths if you are a nurturing type person, because one of the biggest ways they reel you in is thru you feeling sympathy for them.

Read The Sociopath Next Door, by Martha Stout, PhD. It is very eye opening, and I've found dead-on. Also, there is a website called loveblog with real people giving real life experiences. Also quite enlightening.

Narcissism often accompanies sociopathy, they are both very self-centered illnesses. Now, often sociopaths have a childhood history of Conduct Disorder (acting up with cruelty to animals, firestarting, truancy, vandalism, etc...). And many fail to bond adequately with their parents.

Narcissistics often have childhoods where they are adored and can do no wrong. Put on a pedestal.

Mine is still not honoring his financial obligations, and I've found he has left a mountain of debt everywhere he goes. He doesn't pay his bills, he runs from them and leaves others to clean up his messes, like me.

Mine also did the anger/intimidation/manipulation thing when we were together and I would say no to his half-cocked ideas of starting this business or that business, which he never stuck with, and I, like you, ended up working 2 jobs to support his fanciful ideas.

Here is a brief synopsis to help you recognize some of the symptoms/signs:

Profile of the Sociopath

* Glibness and Superficial Charm

* Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

* Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

* Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

* Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

* Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

* Incapacity for Love

* Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

* Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

* Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

* Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

* Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

* Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

* Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

* Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

Other Related Qualities:

1. Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
2. Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them
3. Authoritarian
4. Secretive
5. Paranoid
6. Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired
7. Conventional appearance
8. Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)
9. Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life
10. Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)
11. Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
12. Incapable of real human attachment to another
13. Unable to feel remorse or guilt
14. Extreme narcissism and grandiose
15. May state readily that their goal is to rule the world


I'm not going to take up any more room on this board for sociopathy, since this is the SA board, but did want to put this out here, because of the promiscuity part--you will find a lot of shocked spouses on these boards, especially since it is estimated that one out of every twenty-five people is a sociopath. Scary stuff!


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

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