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User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts 4
imtrying
♀ Member
Member # 22031
Default  Posted: 1:07 AM, November 21st (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I didn't play it by the book - my X never got a diagnosis but it was very obvious to me, and eventually to him, that he uses sex the same way as one uses substances or alcohol.

He fits every description, passes every online test, and when he did manage to go to an SA meeting he said, "Yeah. I saw myself in their stories."

The reason it helped me to think of him as an SA is that I saw the compulsive nature. In some ways SOME WAYS it is out of his control. Although, of course he COULD control it. But it let me see what I was up against. And in a way it slightly lessened the pain.

He would do and has done and probably will do this to any partner he has.

All the best to you. What a painful journey...


Posts: 721 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Pacific NW USA
TooManyYears
♀ Member
Member # 26108
Default  Posted: 10:19 AM, November 21st (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So, I went with him to see his therapist on Thursday. I was very impressed. This therapist has a good grasp of what is going on, and was very supportive of me. He told me that I needed to read Deceivedby Claudia Black "to help you deal with all the shit that he has brought on you." Hmmmm....not a bad start! I picked the book up yesterday and have started to read it. He also gave me the card of an IC that he works with who also runs a group for female partners of SA's. I will give her a call on Monday.

He asked me where I was in the marriage. I told him that I had decided to stay for now, but that we remain separated. We have discussed the process of reconciliation, but that we are going to take this slow and see how things go. I think he was impressed by how much my H and I talk about things. We really are best friends, but that I have had a fear that we will never be more than that. The kids and I are going away for Thanksgiving, and so the therapist discussed with him what his plan of action will be. He is going to go to an extra SAA meeting while we are gone, see a movie at the theater, get a tree and decorate the house for us, and will ask to meet with some of his SAA group members outside of group. The therapist is also going to call him on Thursday to check on him. This will be a big test for him. He hasn't spent a holiday alone in 17 years. I think he will be ok, if he sticks to the plan.

The hour flew by. We did not discuss a celibacy plan. I don't know if he meant to and got sidetracked, or if he felt it wasn't important right now and assumed that we weren't together. He did say that down the road we will need MC and probably family counseling, but that for now we need to each work on ourselves. I agree with that. He told us that this is the road less traveled, and that it would be filled with pain. However, he also stated that this would be painful either way (if we stayed together or split up) and that he does feel that my H is making a sincere effort. I left feeling really good about things.

Ok, now it is TMI time....

After all the discussion about celibacy and intimacy, we ended up together on Tuesday night. We were just cuddling and talking, and then we were kissing. He asked me if it was too soon. We discussed the expectations and why it might not be a good idea and where things have went wrong in the past. I told him that I did not want to jeopardize his sobriety (about 2 months). He told me that he wanted to be with me. I know this is going to sound stupid, but it has been YEARS since I have felt like he wanted to be with me, and to have him come out and say that, and actually act on that was incredible. I cried before, during, and after. We talked about it for awhile afterward. Neither one of us had any regrets, and we both agreed that what happened was ok. It doesn't mean that everything is alright or that we don't have a long ways to go. It wasn't great (as far as the actual sex goes), but it was extremely emotional for both of us. He said afterward that he felt the most peace he had felt in a long time.

We aren't rushing back into being intimate. We are moving very slow with things. We are still separated. That is necessary at this point. I think that overall, it was just a very positive week. However, I am being realistic, and I know that this is a long, hard journey with a lot of ups and downs.


Me- 40
H, rSA- 46
2 young adult children
Married 21 years
Last D-day 9/19/09 (Many before this)

Posts: 496 | Registered: Nov 2009
too trusting BW
♀ Member
Member # 15459
Default  Posted: 3:41 PM, November 21st (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks TOomany, for sharing your experience with the sexual/intimacy aspect.

As I was reading your post, I thought how much it helped in the early days, to know the thoughts that we spouses have are pretty similar.

Those thoughts that we have swirling in our heads in the bedroom (let alone the rest of the time) feel so contradictory a lot of times.

It sure helps to see how others feel in such a vulnerable place.

Thanks to all of you who share your innermost thoughts.


Me 39
SA-FWH 44
11yrs M
In R-maybe
3 DC from Marriage #1
1 DS together
at least 4 d-days

Posts: 1300 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Kansas
Pepper_95
♀ Member
Member # 25858
Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, November 22nd (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My spouse is a porn addict, admitted to it. I didn't realize until reading here that he is a sex addict b/c of this.

I have been dealing with the progression of porn addiction for 14 years. Unlike some porn addicts, he still wants to be with me and desires me. He has had a couple of EA's that I know about. He has visited (in the past) strip clubs.

I now have to monitor his time, have him account for every bit of it. I feel like he cheats me of my time and sanity b/c of this. I have no idea if he has had a PA in the past or not. He swears not and is willing to take a lie detector test but even then, I feel no less betrayed.

I have burned his porn collection in front of him, he has burnt any new but only b/c I found it.

I am so tired of fighting him and his demons. I deserve more!

I love him but I hate him....make sense?

I don't know how much longer I can live in this marriage. I am so tired of being mauled for his pleasure without ever receiving any in return.

Just venting....


"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." Jeremiah 29:11

Posts: 186 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: limbo
gettingthrutoday
♀ Member
Member # 21365
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, November 22nd (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good luck TooMany -- sounds like things may be looking up for you --

Pepper -- welcome, and sorry. My WH, too is a porn addict; his behavior escalated into online profiles, massage parlors ...

I now have to monitor his time,

This will drive you crazy. Is he is recovery? He needs to see an IC who specializes in sex addiction -- CSAT or other. If he's truly in recovery, he should be monitoring himself, not you doing it for him.

Porn addiction, and sex addiction, is an intimacy disorder. Until he can free himself of his misguided internal messaging, you won't have true intimacy with him. And he won't be able to identify, and purge, the misguided messages without professional help.

Some websites that may help you now -- Candeo.com (porn addiction recovery) and Recoverynation.com (sex addiction recovery, with a really good *free* workshop for partners).

Keep posting here -- there are lots of partners here who have great advice and information.


Me BS 52
married 30 years
Ddays 10/20/08, 11/23/08, 3/09
Primary Love Language: Honesty
My top 5 needs: love, honesty, faithfulness, mutual respect, communication

Posts: 382 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Southeastern US
moreroses
♀ Member
Member # 26283
Default  Posted: 1:48 PM, November 24th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Here's a good one. Is there such a thig as 'looking like a Sex Addict'?

I got introduced to someone recently and the way he leared down my blouse, he just looked to me like a guy who you would see coming out of a strip joint all adither. Husband asked me if I would like to get together with that guy and wife and I said I just didn't feel comfortable.

dday:2-14-08
nearly 2 years of successful rebuilding
married a long time with 4 kids together


BW;Me
DDay;2-14-08 when former ow decided to enlighten me about previous A
marriage rebuilt, felt rebuilt at 2 1/2 yrs out
long marriage with 4 kids

"And the stars that we could reach were just starfish on the beach"-French folksong


Posts: 1399 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Northeast
BigTexN
♂ Member
Member # 24414
Default  Posted: 2:05 PM, November 24th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Everything that I read on sex addicts seems to state that sex addicts "more than likely" will have a recurrence of their addiction.

Is this true?

I'm trying to reconcile with WW who is a sex addict. I don't know if I can handle a "relapse".


BS(me) - 42
WS(her) - 37
A - Over 9mos, 20 OM total
M - 4.5 yrs May 5th
OM - 20 men over 9mos 3 are married. 8 were old HS friends, 1 a friend of her ex-husband, 10 former coworkers and 1 she met in a bar
D-day - May 18, 2009
Children - 1 w

Posts: 66 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: The Woodlands, TX
flowermom
♀ Member
Member # 23950
Default  Posted: 2:05 PM, November 24th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Pepper- If he is not treating you well during sex (it is NOT lovemaking)he is abusing you. THIS IS SEX ABUSE!!!!!! You are mixed up because of what you have been going through, and you are unable to see things clearly. I loved/hated my husband too. He is also a sex addict. He was also abusive, sexually, emotionally and verbally. It took years for me to see it. The big change and lights on for me was when I wrote EVERYTHING down, and asked myself, what would I say if my sister or best friend told me that this was happening to her? I would have told her to run away as fast as she could. Sex in marriage is supposed to make you feel closer to your spouse, you should feel loved, and valued, not like a cheap whore who is just there for the convenience. As I started to watch closely and learn about addictions, I realized that I was loving someone who only loved my vagina.
Please be careful, and know that there are people here who care. FM


Me-BS WHSA, 3 wonderful kids, all grown.
Denial is not just a river in Egypt

Posts: 570 | Registered: May 2009 | From: South
moreroses
♀ Member
Member # 26283
Default  Posted: 3:59 PM, November 24th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

bigtex: My husband had a relapse. But I did not berate or yell, we just both took measures it couldn't happen again.It was porn. No porn was a condition of rebuilding. I think the thing is, they have to acknowledge and want to help themseves. They have to really see what they are doing is destructive to the marriage, to the partner they love. I went to the suggested sites and found valuable and comforting information about us the unaffected spouses. I suggest going to recoverynation.

dday:2-14-08
nearly 2 years of successful rebuilding

[This message edited by moreroses at 4:02 PM, November 24th (Tuesday)]


BW;Me
DDay;2-14-08 when former ow decided to enlighten me about previous A
marriage rebuilt, felt rebuilt at 2 1/2 yrs out
long marriage with 4 kids

"And the stars that we could reach were just starfish on the beach"-French folksong


Posts: 1399 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Northeast
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 8:18 AM, November 25th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi! I don't get back here much, because I am trying to move on, but I am still financially entangled with the SA WS, and my mil still talks to me and checks on me from time to time, to make sure I am okay.

Well, I just posted on the divorce thread about some of his shenanigans, and I just had to come back here and thank the wonderful and wise people here who helped me detach from him, especially 7yrs (I haven't seen her on here in a while, hope she is doing okay), justwow (always reminding me to detach, detach!--THANK YOU!), eternaloptimist, birdwatch, and the others, who, when I was so confused about what he was telling me, and I posted about it here, were so wise with their words and letting me know that he was just manipulating me again.

He is one sick pup, and I don't seem him getting better any time soon, and I am so so thankful I did not move my children to be with him. I think I probably would have lost my mind, to have to deal with him in the condition he is in right now.....

THANK YOU ALL, and I love you guys......

And to all the new people here, there is incredible wisdom on this board.....


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14900 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
JustWow
♀ Member
Member # 19636
Default  Posted: 10:31 AM, November 25th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NA-
Happy Thanksgiving! It is so good to see your posts, here and elsewhere, and see the strength and healing you are accomplishing. You have come sooooo far in such a short time, I'm so proud of you!!

I read your thread in D/S, he sure has a long fuse on that self-destruct bomb, doesn't he?

Keep you safe and strong.

JW


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3551 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
hoping2heal
♀ Member
Member # 16738
Default  Posted: 5:39 PM, November 25th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Haven't had two seconds to catch up on posts yet, but I have a question for the SA vets:

How often is the sa suppose to see the CSAT? Does it matter? SAH just admitted he has a problem maybe 4 weeks ago. He's been seeing his CSAT every week and going to a sexual compulsivity group (run by his CSAT) once a week. His CSAT wants him to go to SAA meetings, so his first meeting will be next week.

He had his individual appt with the CSAT today and said he gave SAH a lot of homework: finish chapters 1-4 in Facing the Shadow workbook. But then (according to SAH) the CSAT says "we'll go over it when you come back in 3-4 weeks".

Doesn't that seem odd that for someone who has newly admitted SA the CSAT doesn't want to see him weekly????

I don't know what to think. I told SAH that I wasn't comfortable with it and wanted him to go at least every 2 weeks.


BS (me) - 38
FWH - 38
4 kids
'98 - PA/EA resulted in us separating
'06 - discovered he'd joined 6 married dating websites
'07 - discovered EA
'09 - FWH admits he's a sex addict -- now working on recovery!

Posts: 1762 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: Central Florida
JustWow
♀ Member
Member # 19636
Default  Posted: 6:13 PM, November 25th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My H has been seeing his CSAT since Feb. He went every single week until his surgery in July. Now he's had to cut back a little to accomodate his chemo schedule, so he goes every other week.

He's not doing his meetings (IMO s/b plain old SA, SAA allows m-bating which I think is ludicrous) to avoid exposure to to germs - again - due to chemo - but will resume the meetings when chemo is done - probably Feb. or Mar.

It could be the 3-4 week thing may be because of the holidays, I do think every other week is probably a minimum schedule. Sometimes once a week gets to be quite a lot between IC, meetings, LIFE, oh and don't forget doing some homework. Many times, when H was going weekly he simply couldn't get all his homework done between appts. Every 2 weeks seems too long, but every week seems too much to accomplish everything.

There, no such thing as a short answer from me!!!


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3551 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
lost2chaos
♀ Member
Member # 25794
Default  Posted: 7:28 PM, November 25th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WH earned his 2 month chip on Monday.

Unlike the 1 month point, I was too busy to even notice we crossed another threshold.

But, this afternoon, I had a HUGE panic. I was running my oldest dd across the city so she could go with my sister to my father's for the holiday. Its normally a 2.5 hour trip round-trip. Even with the holiday traffic, I figured starting at 12:30 we'd be back by 5pm and WH doesn't get home from work until 5:30 at the earliest.

Several weeks ago, one of our kids killed both of our laptops and WH had to get our PC back up and running after 3 years not working. Life has been crazy so I haven't gotten the net nanny program onto the PC yet.

And, his boss let him go home from work at 4pm...while my trip took me a full 6 hours to get home again.

Wh has disclosed that he did his trolling for hook-ups in the times he would get home from work and was alone because I was out with the kids. For the last 2 months, he's intentionally never left work unless someone is home so he's never alone. He couldn't do that today.

I was NOT ready for this one. He kept me on the phone most of the afternoon. And, the PC shows no activity while I was gone. But, I still keep thinking 'what if he's lying to me and hid activity'.

I have no *real* reason to suspect him...except his horrid history and the fact that's he's only been sober for 2 MONTHS now.

I haven't spiralled emotionally. But, I'm struck that I will never have a life as I knew it before all of this shit again.


BW33, fWH33 (alongroadback),and 8 children.
D-day#1 9/23/09 D-day#2 10/3/09
Sobriety 9/23, R-1/12/10 the work begins...??

Posts: 286 | Registered: Oct 2009
moreroses
♀ Member
Member # 26283
Default  Posted: 7:01 AM, November 26th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've been reading these posts and I'm so sorry any spouse has to deal with this.

My question is: Can you tell me about the remorse your partner has about realization there is a problem?

Also, there are many dimensions to Sex Addiction, do you see some as being less serious than others?


BW;Me
DDay;2-14-08 when former ow decided to enlighten me about previous A
marriage rebuilt, felt rebuilt at 2 1/2 yrs out
long marriage with 4 kids

"And the stars that we could reach were just starfish on the beach"-French folksong


Posts: 1399 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Northeast
Eternaloptimist
♀ Member
Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 2:04 PM, November 27th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NA,

Glad to see you post -- and I'm thrilled that your able to really see your spouse's actions and not get entangled. Hurrah for you!

moreroses, yes there are different dimensions of SA. If you haven't read any of Patrick Carnes books, it would be a great idea and would help you enormously understand sex addiction...as much as a non-addict can understand.

Re: relapses: My husband says he's had none and I have no reason to believe he has. However, by the time he told me about the SA, I believe he was well and truly DONE with that part of his life. He was sick of himself and recognized, more than I did at the time, how truly unhealthy and dangerous his life had become.

EO


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Toronto
sawife
♀ New Member
Member # 26324
Default  Posted: 4:23 PM, November 27th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Im new here and can't figure out if there is a search function, so I figured I would post a quick summary of what I am going through in hopes of someone that can guide me through this and relate..

My husband of 5 years confessed after being confronted about having lots of affairs. He says hes a sex addict. Addicted to prostitutes, escorts, etc. I had no clue. About 3 yrs ago, he had his wallet stolen after agreeing to meet some girl that he met online and confessed to me about it and swore it would never happen again. I felt completely devastated, shocked, hurt.. but I forgave him..
Now to find out it's going on again. I dont even know if he ever stopped. Im going through stages- Im shocked and just rather go back to not knowing and living our lives. Then Im so mad that I want to do something to hurt him as much as he is hurting me.
D-day = 4 days ago
I have a 3 mos old and a 2 yr old and it breaks my heart that they might not grow up with him.

I want to leave, but I work at home so that wont work. I want him to leave, but part of me is afraid that he really will leave me. Isn't that stupid? He hurt me and betrayed me and I am sitting here afraid that I will do something for him to leave ME..

sorry to ramble on..


Me = BS 30
Him = WS 35
2 kids - 1 & 3
Feb 06 DD #1
Nov 09 DD #2

Posts: 19 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: chicago
moreroses
♀ Member
Member # 26283
Default  Posted: 6:16 AM, November 28th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess I want to relate a bit with people who also have had to deal with this.I think I'l be hanging around this thread a while.

SAWIFE: I'm really sorry about your situation.I really can't offer anything except to to get education for yourself about SA. With information an approach to deal with it becomes apparent.

eternaloptimist: Thank you.I have done some reading aobut this recently. I do think that is where we stand with this also. I'm just really sorry it took 7 years for my husband to find his way out.And of course I never knew about any of it. Anyone who reads my profile will see my husband did have a sex addiction. But the sorry part, the repentant part, his change, how good it is now for us, how different he is now, all this leads me to think we are on the other side.Plus the fact I know the porn is out due to transparency, controls on all the computers he uses. I don't know if my husband every thought and still thinks he was sick and twisted. But I do know he regrets the A, the entire association.He puts in terms like he learned a lot and to avoid the lower rungs of people with deep problems that make them go into that kind of life. He puts it in terms of leaving it behind him and never looking back, glad to be rid of it, the devil or a weight on his shoulder then, says things like that.

It's just a lot to take, for the spouse. I had a hard time with it. Lack of understanding, my mind was simply blown away. It still is. It's all so frightening, isn't it? Were you frightened of you spouse when you found out? I was. It's going better now, maybe because I know where we stand with it, so I have some confidence . I'm amazed I'm still here and have been such a help to him. I mean, so many would just look at the facts and end the marriage. I guess we just had too many years invested, and so many of those years were very good years.And of course, he hid the addiction so well many of those 7 years were good too, because well, they are so good at hiding it. It's just really a lot to take.How do you help your husband?

dday:2-14-08
nearly 2 years of successful rebuilding
4 children together

[This message edited by moreroses at 6:21 AM, November 28th (Saturday)]


BW;Me
DDay;2-14-08 when former ow decided to enlighten me about previous A
marriage rebuilt, felt rebuilt at 2 1/2 yrs out
long marriage with 4 kids

"And the stars that we could reach were just starfish on the beach"-French folksong


Posts: 1399 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Northeast
TooManyYears
♀ Member
Member # 26108
Default  Posted: 8:25 AM, November 28th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Moreroses

My husband was a porn addict for many years before I met him, but I did not know until a couple of years after we were married and already had children, because as you stated, these addicts are really good at hiding it. Similar to your situation, my husband's behavior escalated to the point that he risked everything for his fix. This addiction is progressive and secretive in nature. My husband tried many times to get clean and break free by himself. That approach doesn't work for most addicts. They need accountability and to work through the deep issues that perpetuate the addiction.

I don't think that as a spouse that there is anything I can do to help him. I can work on MYSELF. I can change how I have viewed myself in the relationship (ED related to SA really takes a toll on our self-esteem), set boundaries, and change how I interact with him.

I don't mean to sound cynical, because it sounds like things are going well for you and your H, but everything I have read about this addiction leads me to believe that seeking outside help and accountability is the key to preventing relapse and maintaining sobriety. These SA's are masters of deception. Just my 2 cents. I am approaching my H's recovery with tempered optimism and caution, because I know how easy it is for him to slide back into it, and while I love him and want him to succeed, I need to protect myself.


Me- 40
H, rSA- 46
2 young adult children
Married 21 years
Last D-day 9/19/09 (Many before this)

Posts: 496 | Registered: Nov 2009
moreroses
♀ Member
Member # 26283
Default  Posted: 1:50 PM, November 28th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, I understand what you are saying.

I think that what I intend to accoplish here is to delve into ***US***. We have issues and stresses. So my questions may be different in that they may be oriented to how each of us reacts, responds, rather than what our husbands are up to. But I completely understand how each of us need to discuss what we uniquely are dealing with. I think I will respond to what I am feeling, doing, how I am coping. I know some here are coming to grips with very serious issues their spouse has. Some on the other hand have a different perspective, may feel they are on the upswing, things are going better, improving, or the problem may have passed and may want to share how that is going for them. I'm interested in the insight and like to respond where I can, add input concerning ***ME***. Because that's my focus here, me, and of course the other spouses here too.

I think it is really good you are focusing on yourself. I think that once we come to see this horrendous betrayal we absolutely have to do that, focus on US.I know I am. I do it in little ways like change the wallpaper on my computer from the 2 of us to a photo of me. I have made so many personal changes improving myself since this whole thing came out. Actually it's been wonderful for me to improve.

Like I said I was wondering how others help their spouse. I do this through discussions and encoragement. Talking about this together has been wonderful. It has been so eye opening for my husband. In our case, and as I have read, sometimes the SA is of a narsacisitc personality. I think this is what we were dealing with with my husband. So, to talk about it as we have, has had a dramatic effect upon him in that he has become empatheic towards me. That is really saying something for a narsacisst personality! To become empathetic! So the discussions on the subject, bringing to him all the information available these days, has been a help and that is one way I help him. Another way I help my husband has been to renew our sex life with more encouragement towards him.I make an effort to look into his eyes and tell him what he does that pleases me, his affect upon me, and discuss our intimacy later, like I really liked that , you did that so wonderful , you make me feel like such and such. I offer encouragement in these ways. I think it has been a help to him, He tells me our sex life is better now than it ever was.

Another question I have is, did your spouse also seem to be of a narsacisstic personality?

dday:2-14-08
nearly 2 yrs of successful rebuilding
4 children together

[This message edited by moreroses at 1:51 PM, November 28th (Saturday)]


BW;Me
DDay;2-14-08 when former ow decided to enlighten me about previous A
marriage rebuilt, felt rebuilt at 2 1/2 yrs out
long marriage with 4 kids

"And the stars that we could reach were just starfish on the beach"-French folksong


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