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User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts 4
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 5:54 PM, July 21st (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

reasonable cost per credit

Yeah. I have to do at least the BA completely online. I cannot attend classes because of working and our child. So I've been searching for reputable online classes and I'm suffering SERIOUS sticker shock!!! $510 per credit hour was one I looked at. There is no chance in hell we can pay that. And our credit is destroyed so I doubt I can get loans. Grants, maybe but no loans.

Still researching...
7

[This message edited by 7yrsbetrayed at 9:27 PM, July 21st (Tuesday)]


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
1Forward1Back
♀ Member
Member # 11057
Default  Posted: 6:15 PM, July 21st (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I pay ~$300 per credit hour. Want some help searching? I'm good at it. What is the actual degree? Addictions counseling?


Me: 60 Yrs. (BS)
Him: 60 Yrs.(FWH- life long sex addict)
-2 ONSs followed by an A-2005/06
-cheated while we were engaged
-seems to stray every 30 years or so
D-Day-June 10, 2006
Working on own recovery. His is his!
Married: 37 yrs. Grown ch

Posts: 966 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Canada
2br02b
♀ Member
Member # 19664
Default  Posted: 7:35 PM, July 21st (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

whatnowaz,
You wrote:
It's so flippin frustrating!!! Will it ever end? He says he is delving into his childhood with his IC and that he feels the IC is really helping. Yet, he just doesnt want to talk about any of this shit! Please give me feedback, it's all crazy-making!!!!

If your husband gets serious about his addiction then it will end. It might not end abruptly; but it will end. It might trickle down to nothing. You never know. I completely understand the crazy-making feeling though. It makes you question your own reality. That had to be the worst part for me.

I am lucky that my husband admitted he had a problem, went to SAA, got counseling and we got into RCA which has really helped. He is also doing the Recovery Nation workshops and I can't begin to describe the changes I have seen in him. He's happier, he's looking at his values and beliefs. In not quite 2 years I have seen remarkable change.

I really don't know if I could have done it had he not been in recovery. Those first few months when we were separated and I was alone in my head - excrutiating. I ran it over and over and beat myself up. My IC at the time helped beat me up as well - thought me nuts for staying. Found another IC who understood my need to at least know I did EVERYTHING I could do to help/stay with my best friend.

Right now I think you should hope that your husband's IC is suggesting some sort of recovery program such as SA, SAA or Recovery Nation. If they are not, perhaps you could discreetly contact them to inform them of what you feel is his continuing behavior of acting out. Although I understand his need for privacy; I feel he should be a little more open and transparent. That's all part of intimacy - honesty.

On another note, I too have had some episodes where female coworkers that he swears are "just friends" seem a little too adoring for my liking and I feel the same way you do when you said:

He isnt all that good looking, it's not like he is extremely fit or anything. ....

WORD! My husband was the gawky redheaded teen/young man and now he's the roundish dorky middle-aged redhead and there are times I think - "REALLY? I mean - really?" Sure, I see the beauty in him but he never gave the others a chance. Based on physical attraction and proximity solely I find it hard to believe he got as much action as he did.
However, at some point I had to believe that these women were indeed just cordial coworkers he had charmed. I had to believe him at some point - but it took a while for me to get there. Now, if one contacts him he has to let me know immediately. Another boundary. If it's it's innocent then there should be no reason for secrecy.

But we've worked a lot of those things on our own through intense communication, in RCA and in MC. He's come a long way but it's taken a long time.

I have spent the last 18 months learning to let go of the past, live in the present and not predict the future. I had to realize that there is a reason this is happening to me. I just don't know what it is yet - but I know there is one. My heart tells me so.

I had to learn to take care of myself, let go and just be present. I had to learn to separate the man from the addiction. I had to learn to forgive myself for my lack of knowledge. I had to learn to establish boundaries, values and priorities in my life. It's been a long journey and it's not over by any means.

My advice - patience.

[This message edited by 2br02b at 7:49 PM, July 21st (Tuesday)]


Me 51
Him 53 (and SA)
D-Day#1 9/19/1981
D-Day#2 11/23/2008
D-Day#3 - 6/6/09 (Actually D-Day!) - full disclosure given.
Forgiveness - 8/30/09
Married 29 years
2 adult children
Reconciling
2BR02B - that is the question.

Posts: 81 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Phoenix, AZ
2br02b
♀ Member
Member # 19664
Default  Posted: 7:41 PM, July 21st (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7 -
You said about going back to school:
There is no chance in hell we can pay that. And our credit is destroyed so I doubt I can get loans. Grants, maybe but no loans.

If you get a grant - let me know. My daughter has applied for 3 years to no avail. All the loan offers in the world but no grants. She's on the Dean's List, has a 3.4 GPA and is going to graduate in 3 years. (she's decided to get the most bang for her buck and take as many credit hours as possible) Even with my husband being laid off for 3 months we made "too much" for any sort of grant. ( Mind you - I am a civil servant and my husband is not raking in the moolah as he's the techy/artsy/geeky guy with an ACTING DEGREE. )

I just want to know if anyone gets one of these grants I have heard of but never seen.

[This message edited by 2br02b at 7:42 PM, July 21st (Tuesday)]


Me 51
Him 53 (and SA)
D-Day#1 9/19/1981
D-Day#2 11/23/2008
D-Day#3 - 6/6/09 (Actually D-Day!) - full disclosure given.
Forgiveness - 8/30/09
Married 29 years
2 adult children
Reconciling
2BR02B - that is the question.

Posts: 81 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Phoenix, AZ
flowermom
♀ Member
Member # 23950
Default  Posted: 7:59 PM, July 21st (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

-7- In addition there are scholarships available, especially to "older" non-traditional students. You can also get many of your electives and core courses done through the community colleges. Even with a 2 year degree, going into this type of field you will need courses you probably did not take. Going to get them at a community college is cheaper and makes it easier to get back into the learning mode. FM


Me-BS WHSA, 3 wonderful kids, all grown.
Denial is not just a river in Egypt

Posts: 570 | Registered: May 2009 | From: South
IRN2006
♀ Member
Member # 23717
Default  Posted: 9:47 AM, July 22nd (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7-
My state college has an outreach program that lets you do courses at a distance for college credit. So, you order the class, order the books, submit assignments via mail, and take proctored exams.

You also have a year to complete the course. It doesn't matter when you study, do the assignments, as long as you get it in that year. A 4 credit course runs less than 1K, which is REALLY cheap, as the local state college is in the top tier of schools.

PM me if you want more info.


Posts: 1295 | Registered: Apr 2009
too trusting BW
♀ Member
Member # 15459
Default  Posted: 11:50 AM, July 22nd (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just have to give my encouragement for you to go for it too, 7yrs!

You have helped me so much. From the first time you told me to listen to what my SAH was trying to tell me, to taking care of myself, to boundary-setting. I hold the help I get here as equal to my Spouse's group (not equal in $, though!)

You have insight, compassion, intelligence to articulate just the right way, and a healthy bluntness that we need.

OK, so it is an encouragement and another big thank you for being there.


Me 39
SA-FWH 44
11yrs M
In R-maybe
3 DC from Marriage #1
1 DS together
at least 4 d-days

Posts: 1300 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Kansas
gettingthrutoday
♀ Member
Member # 21365
Default  Posted: 2:57 PM, July 23rd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi group --

Have been lurking for a long time, but have not posted because I'm not sure if I belong in this thread or not --

First of all, 7, I'll add my encouragement to keep looking into going back to school. I was another one of those "nontraditional" students, graduated from grad school when I was 46. I took lots of the pre-requisites from the local community college, which was really convenient. Good luck with whatever you choose --

Anyway, back to my question and a brief synopsis of my sitch. My WH had a 13-year A with a woman who lived in another state. They met up a few times per year when he was away on business, and exchanged e-mails and phone calls between dates. Beginning in 2006, he started posting his profile on a few sites and hooked up with a woman with whom he had a 3-year internet A. I found out about all of this last fall. He admitted to a porn addiction, but stated over and over that he had not had sex with the first OW, and the internet A, while initially flirty, was essentially platonic and did not involve internet sex, no masturbation. He also contacted a massage parlor/hooker in March of this year and claims that it was an "honest mistake."

After finding the e-mail to the hooker, I asked him to see a CSAT, which he readily agreed to and has been seeing this therapist since April. WH claims that his SA tests came out borderline, and that he has no desire to act out or return to porn sites. His computer history has been clean all spring and summer, and he leaves his laptop at home and open all day, every day. We had a disclosure session a few weeks ago, and there was essentially nothing new -- rehashing the old stuff. He is extremely remorseful about the As, and has acted wonderfully toward me, especially since seeing the CSAT. I can honestly say that we have a new level of intimacy now that was not there before, and he seems to be "all in." He attended his first group therapy session the other night, but doesn't really think he needs it. We have both registered on the Recovery Nation website and are waiting for our accounts to be activated -- WH has started the activities already that he can do without the registration. Incidentally, the CSAT believes WH and does not think that there will be more to the story (I don't think he'd be easy to fool).

Now my questions. I have been seeing an IC who happens to be the spouse of an rSA. At the time I chose her, I did so because of her history with SAs. However, my sessions with her have gotten increasingly frustrating and I'm not sure if that's because *I'm* being difficult or if she may simply have goals that I don't buy into. For instance, she suggested early that I might be interested in attending a COSA meeting. I did look into that, but decided not to because their main goal (per their website) is religious and states that it is a "recovery program designed for spiritual development." That's fine for those who want it, but I don't choose the religious, or spiritual, aspect.

After relating this choice to my IC, she continually asks me, during sessions, if I'm ready to "give this up to a higher power" -- "this" referring to the marriage, my healing, my life, etc. I continually state that I have already given up trying to control other people but will not give up control of anything that I retain responsibility for -- my actions, my choices, my behavior and essentially my healing. I absolutely believe that it is necessary for me to be an active participant not only in my healing, but in my marriage and life. Example -- I work part-time and found that I was getting much more depressed and angry on my days off work. IC's comment was that I was addicted to the marriage and had obsessive thoughts -- too much time spent thinking about it. So, I arranged to spend some time volunteering with special needs kids for a few hours on my days off. IC criticized me for this decision, stating that I was mistakenly trying to control my healing. She suggested that I try meditating for one hour per day instead.

What are your thoughts on this? I know that in any addiction, control is a big issue, and one of the hardest things for a spouse is to give up trying to control things that they really can't. For those of you who have successfully healed, how much "control" did you retain? Was your healing active or passive? How did you learn to control obsessive thoughts?

2nd question -- in our discussions, I mentioned to IC that I didn't see myself totally trusting WH again, that I was still protecting a small part of myself. IC implied that a healthy marriage required 100% from both spouses, and that I would need to learn to fully trust him again before we could be in a "healthy" relationship. Again, for you who have experience with this -- is this a reasonable expectation? If so, how do you do this?

Sorry this is so long -- I'm usually not so wordy. Any help appreciated --

GTT


Me BS 52
married 30 years
Ddays 10/20/08, 11/23/08, 3/09
Primary Love Language: Honesty
My top 5 needs: love, honesty, faithfulness, mutual respect, communication

Posts: 382 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Southeastern US
whatnowaz
♀ Member
Member # 24543
Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, July 23rd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((Gettingthru))

I wish I had advice, but I dont. Im still new to this, but I know someone will give you feedback and insight. I am responding because I dont like to post without acknowledging the post before mine. Often my posts get lost in the shuffle and I dont want you to feel that way. It sounds like you and your WH are on a good track and I hope it stays that way! You can always find another IC, although it sounds like you have been with her for a long time....

BREAKTHROUGH!

I think we had a major break through last night. We got into a deep conversation about everything. He was frustrated that I began asking some questions, and he just isnt ready to tell me details. I explained it would help me in believing him in that he is wanting to change. He understood. He did clarify some things, but no details....fine Im good with that. Then, he started to say that he knows I have lost confidence in his IC and I explained some of my reasons. I also brought up SA and recovery groups. He acted like I had never mentioned this before. I told him I sent him a whole link to his email. He doesnt check it very often. The rest of the night until we went to sleep he says he felt excited to get to this group and that he is happy he is not alone. He says he has always felt alone in this problem. He also showed remorse and said things last night that he hasnt said yet. Here are some things he said "I dont know what I'd do if I lost you" I have to change, I can't and dont want to do this anymore" (acting out) "Im so sorry I have hurt you" While these dont seem like real "moments" my WH comes from a place where "sorry" takes alot to say. He rarely says a heartfelt "sorry" to me or anyone. Im not gonna put my wall down, by any means. But, I really want to be hopeful that maybe this time he is serious.


ME(BS)-33
HIM(WH)SA(not officially Dx)-41
Married 8 years
together 15
D-day too many to remember
most recent 6-16-09
kids 4,12,14

They say "Love conquers all" Well, I am afraid they are WRONG!


Posts: 174 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: arizona
RedheadTX
Member
Member # 19079
Default  Posted: 3:52 PM, July 23rd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So...WH went to his very first SA meeting last night. He decided on his own that he wanted to go, found it on his own, etc... Emailed me today to say that he clearly has a love addiction. Says he wants to figure himself out and get help.

I found a CSAT to go to, but of course my insurance won't cover it. Don't know how I'll be able to afford it, but really want to try to find a way. There's a male (recovering SA and one of the first trained by Patrick Carnes apparently) and female CSAT and they like to do a 2 hr session with both CSATs and both spouses for the initial session. WH has agreed to join me for that session, though I'm not sure whether or not he would continue IC with the male CSAT afterwards. We won't be able to go until mid-August because of finances this month and then one of the CSATs will be on vacation the first part of next month. She recommended that I read "Deceived" by Claudia Black.

I'm also going to my first COSA meeting tomorrow night. I'm a little nervous.

We had pretty much decided on separation or divorce, but tend to waffle back and forth on it. I am finally to the point where I know I can't be with him if he's not in recovery. He doesn't know if he wants to be married at all. I think he's still foggy, but he does seem to be seeking some clarity. It's encouraging, but I don't want to be too encouraged. I moved to the guest bedroom.

I told my parents, which has added a whole other level of complication to all of this. I told them because I wanted their support, and now I feel like I am spending all my time defending him to my parents. They are angry...I get it. But it sucks, b/c I love him and I know he's not some monster. My mom thinks "addiction" is a cop out. She also thinks that if we get divorced, I should tell DD that it's WH's fault and that I should tell her what's going on. DD is 11 and a total daddy's girl. I don't want to put her in the middle and make her feel guilty for loving either of us. I just don't feel like it would be good for me to point fingers.

I don't know how I'm feeling. Hopeful, hopeless, happy, depressed...it all depends on the moment. This seems really long. I just felt like I wanted to get it all out. I appreciate any thoughts or feedback you may have. As much as this all sucks, it is so nice to read about people who GET IT!

P.S. 7 - Go for it! Reading your advice to others has been so helpful. You would be fantastic!!!


Me-BS-33
Him-WH-35 (ihatedrphil)
11 yr old daughter
Countless PA and EA
Most recent Dday-4/08 (9 mo. affair w/OW who didn't know he was married)

11/08 - Found out he is still talking to the previous OW as well as at least three others.
6


Posts: 296 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Houston
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 5:13 PM, July 23rd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just wanted to post a quick update to my sitch.

Talked to stbxh yesterday about finances, they are still intertwined as of now, and he is getting to the point lots of money is starting to go missing, now that he has taken control of his own finances. He told me he needs $500 to pay the gas & electric and the cable. So he is apparently still spending a ton on the cable porn, but he thinks I will not figure this out. Thing is, I really don't care anymore, as long as he pays what he is supposed to. I felt like telling him he doesn't have to lie and hide it anymore, I know what he is doing and I just don't care, but I let him go. It isn't my battle to fight anymore.

Anytime I question anything at all about where his money is going, he gets terribly defensive, which tells me right there that he is doing things with it he knows he shouldn't.

It is truly weird looking at him destroying his life from this angle, and I am not emotionally involved anymore, and I feel absolutely nothing.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14912 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
1Forward1Back
♀ Member
Member # 11057
Default  Posted: 5:14 PM, July 23rd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

interested in attending a COSA meeting. I did look into that, but decided not to because their main goal (per their website) is religious and states that it is a "recovery program designed for spiritual development." That's fine for those who want it, but I don't choose the religious, or spiritual, aspect.

Is this a bona fide COSA meeting or is it a branch of something like Celebrate Recovery. As I understand it, COSA operates like AA and there is no stress on the religious aspect, except in a Higher Power, as you understand that to be. That could be anything, really.

Celebrate Recovery is church based. They have a 12 step program just like AA and COSA. I go to this, because there is no COSA in my area. I'm also a believer so it's not an issue for me. I do not attend the big meeting first, because I have real conservative convictions about Christian music and worship and it is far too liberal for me. I do go to the individual group meeting for spouses of SAs. If we had a bona fide COSA meeting here, I'd probably choose that as my main group. The Celebration Recovery works for me however. If this is what the COSA group you talk about is, then you will not find it useful, I think. You would find the spiritual aspect very frustrating, I'm guessing.

Many addictions counsellors believe strongly in a 12 step program as an essential part of recovery. And 12 step programs have the concept of a Higher Power. If you are not wanting to attend a program, would there be any other counsellors in your area that would work for you Or other groups? I attended Al-anon for awhile and it was good. Sure my issue was different but I was welcomed with open arms. It helped me a lot with dealing with my codependency.

will not give up control of anything that I retain responsibility for -- my actions, my choices, my behavior and essentially my healing. I absolutely believe that it is necessary for me to be an active participant not only in my healing, but in my marriage and life.

I am not sure what you mean by this. Although I give up my recovery and healing to a Higher Power, it doesn't mean I have no part to play. I have the MAIN part in this dance. I don't sit here and wait for God to make it all better, although man, would that be nice, eh! I work at least 1 to 2 hours a day reading, journaling and doing workbook exercises. I sure don't feel like it, but if I don't, I find I backslide in my recovery. I have to make a concerted effort to not 'blame and shame' my SAh almost every day; God doesn't do that for me.

I guess it's really hard to explain until you work the program. I have dear friends in a 12 step program that do not believe in God or any reasonable facsimile thereof, but they still have learned to understand the concept of 'giving it over' to your Higher Power, as you understand him to be. I don't know how else to explain it.

Good luck in working through this. It's all so hard isn't it!

[This message edited by 1Forward1Back at 5:22 PM, July 23rd (Thursday)]


Me: 60 Yrs. (BS)
Him: 60 Yrs.(FWH- life long sex addict)
-2 ONSs followed by an A-2005/06
-cheated while we were engaged
-seems to stray every 30 years or so
D-Day-June 10, 2006
Working on own recovery. His is his!
Married: 37 yrs. Grown ch

Posts: 966 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Canada
gettingthrutoday
♀ Member
Member # 21365
Default  Posted: 6:02 PM, July 23rd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Whatnowaz -- good luck with the breakthrough -- sounds promising -- hope it continues!

RedheadTX -- no advice, just hugs. I understand the waffling part ...

Thanks for your comments 1F1B. I got that quote from the official COSA website.
To me, giving up healing to a higher power is the same as being passive -- you then, also, give up the journaling, workbooks, etc. Because, if you're doing those things, aren't you trying to control your healing? You're certainly being active in the process, and not giving it up. And, according to my IC, that's a bad thing. I see a real contradiction where others see simplicity.

I guess I just don't understand the 12-step process, and giving up to a higher power seems to be paramount. I think I'll have to continue to rely on this website for my sanity, which is what I've been doing since D-day! I certainly have learned a lot from it.

GTT


Me BS 52
married 30 years
Ddays 10/20/08, 11/23/08, 3/09
Primary Love Language: Honesty
My top 5 needs: love, honesty, faithfulness, mutual respect, communication

Posts: 382 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Southeastern US
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 6:14 PM, July 23rd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Let me preface this by saying again, that I am not a professional. The advice I give is based on my experience and the knowledge I have gained in my recovery. Everything is based on what I've learned from my own research, from my rSA, his CSAT and my own IC.

gettingthrutoday

Beginning in 2006, he started posting his profile on a few sites
What kind of sites? Ones where people legitimately try to find parnters (match.com, eharmony.com) or ones where people are specifically looking to cheat (AFF, AM) I guess basically I'm asking if the users on the site were more prone to post pictures of themselves naked or clothed? If it's naked, looking at those types of profiles is a type of porn in addition to being a way to hook up.
He admitted to a porn addiction
Then he is a sex addict. There is no distinction between "porn" addiction and "sex" addiction it is the same disease.
He also contacted a massage parlor/hooker in March of this year and claims that it was an "honest mistake."
I hope you don't honestly believe that? One does not call a hooker by mistake.
I asked him to see a CSAT, which he readily agreed to and has been seeing this therapist since April.
Good. Are you certain that it's a CSAT (and a male?) It's a bad idea for male SAs to see female CSATs if it can be avoided.
WH claims that his SA tests came out borderline, and that he has no desire to act out or return to porn sites.

The tests are often "borderline" because the SA lies. I'm not saying yours did I'm just being honest. It is good that he says he has no desire to act out or return to porn sites but how long do you think he could maintain that with no therapy? It's common for SAs to stop behaviors and "white knuckle" it successfully for a while. It doesn't last. Also, do you know if he is sober? Sober means no acting out of any kind (no porn, no Victoria's Secret catalogs, no watching movies on Cinemax, and NO masturbation at all. That also means that the two of you need to abstain as well. No sex at all for 90 days is the only way to get clean and sober.) Has he been sober for 90 days? That's how long the chemicals in the brain take to return to normal levels. Unless and until he gets sober neither of you will have any idea whether or not his recovery is going to be successful.
We had a disclosure session a few weeks ago, and there was essentially nothing new -- rehashing the old stuff.
Was this done in a clinical setting with your IC and his CSAT present? If not it was not a formal disclosure and I wouldn't trust it much. He would need to be pretty far along in working a 12 step program before he was ready to give full disclosure.
He attended his first group therapy session the other night, but doesn't really think he needs it.

Group is uncomfortable at first and I'm guessing he didn't like it more than he doesn't need it. If he is a SA it is vitally important that he be in a group and work a 12 step program. If his CSAT said he needs group, he needs group.
Incidentally, the CSAT believes WH and does not think that there will be more to the story (I don't think he'd be easy to fool).
Did the CSAT tell you this or is it secondhand through your husband? It is important that you always get this type of info directly from the CSAT.

On to your questions.

For instance, she suggested early that I might be interested in attending a COSA meeting. I did look into that, but decided not to because their main goal (per their website) is religious and states that it is a "recovery program designed for spiritual development." That's fine for those who want it, but I don't choose the religious, or spiritual, aspect.
First of all, I'm an atheist so I do not like the overtly religious bent of most recovery programs and counselors. With something like COSA you should attend and see how over the top it is before you decide. You might get lucky and find a group that isn't so religious. It is important to find a group so I do agree with the counselor on that. Perhaps you'd be more comfortable at S-Anon? Recovery Nation is a great start but you may need more face to face support.
After relating this choice to my IC, she continually asks me, during sessions, if I'm ready to "give this up to a higher power" -- "this" referring to the marriage, my healing, my life, etc.
It sounds to me like you two differ fundamentally in your beliefs. This is probably not a good situation for you. If she cannot put her own religious beliefs aside and respect yours, she's not a good fit for you. I could never see a counselor who tried to force religion or belief down my throat. Interview potential counselors and be honest about your beliefs (or lack of or whatever) and specifically ask if they can counsel you in a secular manner. That's what I did, that's what my rSA did. We both found great ICs who RESPECT our core beliefs.
I continually state that I have already given up trying to control other people but will not give up control of anything that I retain responsibility for -- my actions, my choices, my behavior and essentially my healing. I absolutely believe that it is necessary for me to be an active participant not only in my healing, but in my marriage and life. Example -- I work part-time and found that I was getting much more depressed and angry on my days off work. IC's comment was that I was addicted to the marriage and had obsessive thoughts -- too much time spent thinking about it. So, I arranged to spend some time volunteering with special needs kids for a few hours on my days off. IC criticized me for this decision, stating that I was mistakenly trying to control my healing. She suggested that I try meditating for one hour per day instead.

Your outlook and attitude is perfect! I think what you said there is very healthy and your decision to find a productive outlet on the days you struggle is genius. It's awesome! I wish I had thought of that and I'm going to steal the idea. Your counselor is pushing her own personal agenda and ignoring your needs. If it were me I'd fire her.
What are your thoughts on this? I know that in any addiction, control is a big issue, and one of the hardest things for a spouse is to give up trying to control things that they really can't.
All true but from everything you've written here you seem to have a pretty good handle on all this. You don't mention anything I would nail as a codependent behavior. I think you're pretty healthy in that regard. As long as you stay aware and work at not engaging in codependent behavior I think you'll do very well with a new IC.
For those of you who have successfully healed, how much "control" did you retain?
You would need to be WAY more specific. Control is a very broad term. Control of what? His addiction? None, it's not mine to control. Control of my recovery? Not enough, I've struggled a great deal and given up a lot of my power. Control of my codependent behaviors? It took a long time to stop checking up on him but I'm good now.
Was your healing active or passive?

You can't heal unless you are actively working toward it. Some things happen passively but only because I'm working at other things. You have to manage your recovery and your rSA has to manage his. It is very much an active process. (The example you gave of finding another outlet and volunteering is a perfect example of you actively working on your recovery in my opinion)
How did you learn to control obsessive thoughts?
Ahhh... this happened passively I think. It just took time. It took knowing that my rSA was working his recovery and was sober. It took some effort on my part to control my behaviors when my thoughts got the better of me. I found other things to do when I was obsessing (just like you did). So, really, the answer on this one is time (but only if the SA is in real recovery if he's not, you'll be stepping on land mines left and right and you'll never have time to heal)
2nd question -- in our discussions, I mentioned to IC that I didn't see myself totally trusting WH again, that I was still protecting a small part of myself. IC implied that a healthy marriage required 100% from both spouses, and that I would need to learn to fully trust him again before we could be in a "healthy" relationship. Again, for you who have experience with this -- is this a reasonable expectation? If so, how do you do this?
No it's not a reasonable expectation at all. I suspect this comes from her Christian beliefs and I'll bet she's also told you that you have to forgive him too? Being married to a SA changes us. How could it not. There will always be a part of us that will be less apt to trust for our own protection. The reality of it is, he's an addict. Most addicts at some time or another will slip and sometimes they will relapse. I don't think it's reasonable to tell a woman that she must blindly trust an addict 100%. In fact I personally think that is unhealthy. I trusted my husband 100% before I found out. I was blindsided to find out that my trust was misplaced. How would it be healthy for me to go back to that?? Do all spouses of SA who decide to stay need to find a reasonable level of trust with their husband? Yes, of course. You cannot spend your life being his mother and checking up on him. But if your gut is telling you something is wrong you need to check things out and verify that your trust has been well placed. Trust but verify. And again this only applies once the SA is sober and fully into recovery and working his program. No one should EVER trust an addict who is not sober and working a recovery program. At all. Ever.

If you are both working your recoveries then he will slowly earn your trust back. But believe me no spouse of a SA will EVER trust her partner 100% again. It's not possible with the depth of betrayal that we go through. I love my husband with every fiber of my being. I accept his addiction. I accept his faults. I support his recovery. I trust him to work his recovery program as long as I see him doing so. I trust his sobriety as long as I see evidence of it.

I hope that helps.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

whatnowaz

I also brought up SA and recovery groups. He acted like I had never mentioned this before. I told him I sent him a whole link to his email. He doesnt check it very often.
He needs to read it.
The rest of the night until we went to sleep he says he felt excited to get to this group and that he is happy he is not alone. He says he has always felt alone in this problem.
Going to SA meetings is good start. He also needs to see a CSAT if you think his IC is not helping.

I think that being cautiously optimistic is the way to go here. What he DOES is what matters NOT what he says. When he starts going to meetings and getting serious about recovery you'll know it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
RedheadTX

So...WH went to his very first SA meeting last night. He decided on his own that he wanted to go, found it on his own, etc...

This is great! It's always better when the SA comes to the realization themselves and seek treatment.
Emailed me today to say that he clearly has a love addiction.
Small red flag here... he still might be minimizing.
Says he wants to figure himself out and get help.
Again this is very good. Personally he needs more than SA meetings. He needs to see a CSAT too if he really wants to seek recovery.
I found a CSAT to go to, but of course my insurance won't cover it. Don't know how I'll be able to afford it, but really want to try to find a way.
I know it's expensive and I know that is scary but seeing a CSAT will be worth every penny. I can't stress enough how bad things can get when people don't have access to CSATs, I see it on this site all the time.
There's a male (recovering SA and one of the first trained by Patrick Carnes apparently) and female CSAT and they like to do a 2 hr session with both CSATs and both spouses for the initial session.
That is fantastic.
WH has agreed to join me for that session, though I'm not sure whether or not he would continue IC with the male CSAT afterwards.
Personally, I think you should set a boundary on that. His seeing a CSAT is vitally important to his recovery, you have a right to ask that he do so or suffer consequences.
She recommended that I read "Deceived" by Claudia Black.
I hadn't heard of that book so went off to Amazon to research it. I need to read it too! Looks like it's new. I knew the author's name sounded familiar (and not just because of he SciFi actress) and realized my rSA's CSAT just gave him an assignment to read "It Will Never Happen to Me" by the same author. In reading about it at Amazon I am thinking of trying to find it locally to read myself... like tonight! It looks wonderful and I need more resources for my list. Thanks for mentioning it! Also, if you haven't another really good book for you to read is "Mending a Shattered Heart" by Stefanie Carnes.
I'm also going to my first COSA meeting tomorrow night. I'm a little nervous.
New situations are always a little daunting but I think once you get there you'll be fine. I hope it's a positive experience for you.
We had pretty much decided on separation or divorce, but tend to waffle back and forth on it. I am finally to the point where I know I can't be with him if he's not in recovery. He doesn't know if he wants to be married at all. I think he's still foggy, but he does seem to be seeking some clarity. It's encouraging, but I don't want to be too encouraged. I moved to the guest bedroom.
Not that it helps but this is very normal. Our marriage was a major rollercoaster for a long time! It's not a fast process and you're both just starting recovery. You moving to the guest room is a good healthy boundary. Do what feels right for you.
I told my parents, which has added a whole other level of complication to all of this. I told them because I wanted their support, and now I feel like I am spending all my time defending him to my parents. They are angry...I get it. But it sucks, b/c I love him and I know he's not some monster. My mom thinks "addiction" is a cop out.
Are we related?? I did the same thing because of circumstances and now it's a constant struggle to maintain healthy boundaries with my parents. Even though my rSa has been sober for almost 3 years and we renewed our vows in December my mother still tries to freak me out all the time. If I say, "rSA has a business meeting." She leaps in and says, "Are you SURE that's where he's going??" I've had to work hard at setting boundaries. "Mom, you are overstepping your boundaries and those types of comments are not acceptable. If you continue to say things like that, I'm going to hang up." If she doesn't drop it or apologize, I hang up and I don't take her calls for a few days. It took me 2 years to get to where I could do that. I'm still working on other boundaries with my parents. It's hard. It's at least as hard if not harder than setting boundaries with my rSA.
She also thinks that if we get divorced, I should tell DD that it's WH's fault and that I should tell her what's going on. DD is 11 and a total daddy's girl. I don't want to put her in the middle and make her feel guilty for loving either of us. I just don't feel like it would be good for me to point fingers.
Your mother is WRONG and you are right. Be sure to set a boundary with your mother and make it clear that if they say ANYTHING to your DD that they will suffer consequences (I obviously can't tell you what those should be but I will say that I've made it clear to my parents that if they EVER badmouthed my husband to our daughter they would no longer be seeing our daughter. And I MEAN it. I will not allow them to damage her with their issues.) There will be an appropriate time for your daughter to know that her father is a SA but you will need to discuss it with your CSATs and make sure that it is done appropriately and at the appropriate time. His addiction is and will affect her and she will need to be aware so that she doesn't marry an addict or become one. Your CSATs can help you navigate that mine field. Our daughter is only five so we have few years before we cross that bridge and I will NOT be crossing it without professional help.

TO ALL NEWCOMERS:
Welcome to our little group. I hope we can offer you the kindness, support and understanding that you deserve. Keep posting and feel free to PM me anytime.
7

[This message edited by 7yrsbetrayed at 9:50 AM, July 24th (Friday)]


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
Eternaloptimist
♀ Member
Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 9:25 PM, July 23rd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

whatnowaz,

I second what 7 said re. being cautiously optimistic. I agree that he seems to be moving in the right direction...but he needs to DO recovery, not just talk about it.

Redhead,
Telling an 11-year-old is absolutely the wrong thing to do. Not to mention it sounds as if they want to vilify her father. She deserves to be able to love him, free of being poisoned against him. The healthiest divorces are when both parties treat each other with respect where the kids are concerned. I'm sorry your parents aren't giving the support you need.

gettingthru,
I also think your IC isn't the right one for you. You should be getting stronger from your sessions, not constantly defending yourself. Your approach sounds quite positive.
I would suggest -- re the "control" issue -- that you might be confusing controlling our recovery with controlling the outcome of our actions. We always control our actions -- of course. But we can't control the outcome of most things. And that's something that many of we spouses of addicts struggle with.

Naiveagain,
I'm sorry your husband is so lost, but it sounds as if you're detaching yourself. Hang in there...


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Toronto
broken11
♀ Member
Member # 23277
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, July 24th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

gettingthrutoday

I've gone to a few COSA meetings and there is talk of a higher power, but it's not over the top. Of course, this could just be my meeting. I imagine it's run like an AA meeting. I find it to be more of a support group atmosphere. It's very small though and I haven't started the 12-step process.

If you're avoiding going because of religion I would say give the one in your area a chance.


Me: BW 30
WH:30
D-day #2 2/26/09
Filed for the big D

Posts: 619 | Registered: Mar 2009
broken11
♀ Member
Member # 23277
Default  Posted: 12:48 PM, July 24th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ps- can i keep posting here even though I'm getting a D??


Me: BW 30
WH:30
D-day #2 2/26/09
Filed for the big D

Posts: 619 | Registered: Mar 2009
1Forward1Back
♀ Member
Member # 11057
Default  Posted: 12:54 PM, July 24th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

broken 11,

The fallout of being married to a sex addict doesn't end just because you get a divorce. Of course you belong here!


Me: 60 Yrs. (BS)
Him: 60 Yrs.(FWH- life long sex addict)
-2 ONSs followed by an A-2005/06
-cheated while we were engaged
-seems to stray every 30 years or so
D-Day-June 10, 2006
Working on own recovery. His is his!
Married: 37 yrs. Grown ch

Posts: 966 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Canada
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, July 24th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

After RedheadTX mentioned the book "Deceived" by Claudia Black last night I had to research it.

The full title is "Deceived: Facing Sexual Betrayal, Lies, and Secrets" by Claudia Black PhD

I was so impressed by the description on Amazon, I got on Barnes & Noble to see if I could get it locally. It was in stock near my house so I had to go buy it last night.

So, I went to the self help section. Couldn't find it. Found the specific shelf marked "Addiction Recovery" and all of Patrick Carnes books (but didn't see "Mending a Shattered Heart" and that made me sad) but still couldn't find it. Then I found the shelf marked "Codependence" and STILL couldn't find it. I went to the customer service desk and asked. Yes they had a copy, yes it was in the area of self help. She walks over and heads straight for the section marked SEXUALITY. My heart sank. I'd been avoiding that bookcase because it was full of very inappropriate things that I did not want my 5 year old DD to see and frankly I didn't want to see it either! Before I could warn him, my rSA (who was walking with our DD) started to approach, he got one look and did an abrupt about face and walked around the corner, taking our DD with him, the first thing he saw was a half naked woman on the cover of a "sex manual." I don't know what my DD saw and I didn't ask because I didn't want to make a big deal about it. She didn't do anything wrong and I'm not sure she understand what she did see. I think she'll be fine.

The book I needed was sandwiched between:
Good Girls Do: Sex Chronicles of a Shameless Generation
and
Going Down: Great Writing on Oral Sex

I actually said, "Well no wonder I couldn't find it!! It shouldn't be in this section!!!" The employee looked at me like I was nuts and took off before I could say anything else!

I intend to give B&N a piece of my mind. The same thing happened in a different store when we went to buy a Patrick Carnes book for my rSA. The book was not in "sexuality" but the addiction recovery section was right next to it and we were bombarded with photos of half naked men and women in sexual poses.

I do not have a problem with the sexuality section existing. I have a problem with the inappropriate placement of it right next to sexual addiction recovery books. And I especially have a problem with a book about healing from the betrayal of being married to a sex addict being IN the sexuality section when it CLEARLY should have been on the Codependence shelf which was on the opposite side.

***stepping off my soapbox***

I'm only part way into the first chapter and I'm really happy with this book. I want to finish it first but if the rest is as good I'm going to add it to the "you MUST read this book" section of my resources post.

If anyone else wants to read it and discuss it I think that would be great. Each chapter has "reflective thoughts and questions" at the end so it can be used as a sort of workbook. I like that component as well.

Any takers? Should this be the first "SPoSA Bookclub" selection?
7

ps- can i keep posting here even though I'm getting a D??

Of course!!! As 1F1B said your journey doesn't end with your divorce. Your need for support and recovery doesn't end with your divorce. You need recovery so that you move forward in a healthy and frankly, so that you don't end up with another SA. My rSA is my 3rd relationship with a SA. I had no idea about the other two until my rSA's was diagnosed but I now realize, I'd never had a healthy relationship with a healthy non-SA man. We're here for everyone whether they reconcile or not.
7

[This message edited by 7yrsbetrayed at 1:05 PM, July 24th (Friday)]


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
whatnowaz
♀ Member
Member # 24543
Default  Posted: 1:10 PM, July 24th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First off....how LAME of B&N to put that book in THAT section. But, great you found it. I may go look today....after leaving my 12 yr old with my 4 yr old in the kid section of course...LOL

I looked up the number for SA here locally and txt it to my H. He said he was calling today between meetings. We'll see.

More good news....

I have been talking about getting on my feet and getting my career going...getting into school and whatnot. Just met with a student advisor of a local college. After talking with her she said she caould place me in the July 2010 nursing program. I have to get my app. back to her by next thursday and Im in! Yay! This will be one step closer to having some freedom and confidence in myself, that if I ever chose to leave, I could support myself and the kids. Not to mention have a great paying job that I can continue to build my education upon.

Thank you all for your continued support! It's so nice to know Im not alone!


ME(BS)-33
HIM(WH)SA(not officially Dx)-41
Married 8 years
together 15
D-day too many to remember
most recent 6-16-09
kids 4,12,14

They say "Love conquers all" Well, I am afraid they are WRONG!


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