And yes, mine is also stuck emotionally somewhere around 9 or 10 (I had that in my tag line for the longest time!) His views on sex and some other things are so incredibly juvenile it just stunned me at times. He would totally freak out over my period, to the point of making faces and acting as if I had a disease, while the other men I have been with just took it as a fact of nature--no big deal. Plus, he would get all backwards if a woman wore a low cut shirt and he could get a "glimpse." I mean he would really get just plain weird. Ich!
whatnowwaz - You need to take care of yourself first. Put your needs first. Gaining weight is one of the things that happens to me when I am very unhappy. Detach, but still speak your feelings. You need to be allowed to get them out--that is really crucial.
I've learned that the secrecy and the unspoken words/feelings are the biggest soul-killer. You can't control how he will react to them, and that really can't be your concern. Your concern is to state (calmly if possible) how you feel, what you need, and what you are going to do with your life, with or without him.
That is taking control back of your life. He can come along with you if he wants, but you cannot hold up your life and what you need for him, he is sick. He truly may not be able to give you what you need right now (or perhaps for a very long time).
So again, don't put your life on hold. I am speaking from experience. When I was with my SA WS, I gained 25 pounds, pretended I was happy, but inside I was miserable. In my head, if I am going to be truthful here, I was trying to eat myself into a heart attack. I figured I needed about 8 more years to get my dd raised, and then if something happened, I was ready to go. I did not see any joy in life. I lost the beauty and wonder and excitement of what life can be about.
I was not getting my physical needs met at all, nor even my emotional needs. And the difference between being married and not having those needs met, or being single and not having those needs met, is hope. When you are single, there is always a very good possibility of getting those needs met. When you are married, and your husband (or wife) is unable to meet those needs, you are stuck. You can get some of those needs met from friends and family, but there are certain needs we have as human beings, you can stuff them down and pretend they don't exist, and try to find other ways to fill that hole, but in reality, they need to be met.
That was honestly one of the big reasons I decided to call it quits. I realized that my SAh would NEVER be able to fulfill certain physical needs for me, at least not for years, as he was still adamant that he did not have a problem, and was going to great lengths to convince me I was the crazy one.. Plus the trust was gone, and he is still deeply in his addiction--I had to speak with him the other day, and he is just plain sick.
Sad, but not my problem anymore, and I am totally in love with life again, and see beauty every day, and am following my dreams and goals, (of course I still have some down times--and I am still learning about myself and my own issues--I am apparently still attracted to guys with issues--right now it is a bipolar alcoholic--but at least I can see this now, and even though the attraction is overpowering, I can control what I do about it, which is I am NOT going to date him!), but anyway, now about 80% of the time, I am truly very happy and excited about my life. And the weight just came off, because I don't need to eat in order to feel good or reward myself or stuff my feelings down.
I feel the sky is the limit, and I am okay with the pain I had to go thru to get here, it was so so worth it! Hang in there, and keep working on YOU!
[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 6:24 AM, September 16th (Wednesday)]
Sorry if you've already mentioned this, but are you in any IC yourself? Any support groups? You don't need to go through all this alone. You do sound depressed and, like NA, I too know how that feels. I wound up on ADs, which I'll be weaned off of by Christmas (that's my goal). They served the purpose of giving me some joy back, and lifting me out of this downward spiral that saw no possibility of happiness, ever.
Is there anyone you can reach out to? A friend you can go for speed-walks with to help you lose the extra weight and boost your endorphins? I used to go running after dark to cry/vent/pound the pavement in an effort to purge myself of all the anger.
It's no wonder you're feeling hopeless. You're stuck with a partner who's NOT being a partner -- you've been abandoned emotionally, after being betrayed. I hope you'll find a path that brings you back to joy...
I need to pick myself up and start exercising and once I get back to work, I really think I will come out of this depression. I cannot take meds. I've tried and I can't do it. Long story!
You all have been so great! Yes, I do have friends and family I can turn to. But, they have heard the story so many times. I have lost friends because of my WH and his issues. My good friends do not judge. And, the friends we have in common, other couples, just plain DO NOT KNOW! He is good at masking his true self.
Then I ask myself, "what if he isn't doing anything wrong, what if he really has stopped acting out" and once again, it just doesn't really make a difference. I don't trust him and NEVER will. I'm just biding time. Gotta get through school, and get myself to a better financial spot...
Ladies, Im off to lunch with a friend! i actually got up and did my hair and make-up today...better make good use of it!
Thanks to all...hugs!!
They say "Love conquers all" Well, I am afraid they are WRONG!
Sorry, I didn't answer your question: no I am not in andy type if IC. I was laid off and my benefits stoppped. We are barely making it, so that had to be put on hold. I go back to work in Oct. and will get benefits again. I will make an appt. and Im wondering if I should see a CSAT? Is this something that would work, being that my WH is a SA?
[This message edited by whatnowaz at 5:13 PM, September 16th (Wednesday)]
He, WH, was at his parents and as soon as they left he used internet porn.
With all of his lashing out, throwing in loss of sobriety isn't a surprise.
I guess I should look on the bright side and for the first time he actually told me. Well emailed me about it before I found out.
Still...I'm getting tired of his emails instead of verbal admission.
I wanted to add that I know I don't post on this forum often, if at all, due to my confusion. I am having serious issues with WH's supposed SA and lack of diagnosis and meetings.
I know he needs to take steps on his own to help himself, and has not done that.
Other then point him in the right direction, what can I do to help? And, should I help?
[This message edited by lost_in_space at 2:06 AM, September 17th (Thursday)]
Last DDay: 7/15/09
Dday again: 3/10/2011
All Done: Better late then never
Finally taking life one day at a time.
You can't help him much right now.
The best thing you can do is find a COSA or S-Anon group for yourself, in addition to some counseling.
Read Mending a Shattered Heart, by Stefanie Carnes. Reading that book, and reading through this forum helped me so much come to grips with what my SAH was fighting, what my role is or isn't, and what to expect (or not) in the future.
It is good (for him) that he told you about his acting out. Email is probably easier for him. Less intimate contact.
Two phrases I have heard help me put SAH behavior into perspective: that SA is "a secrecy disorder" and it is above all an "intimacy disorder."
When you remember those two things, (while very oversimplified!) you see how they actually have a sort of handicap in relationships, just dealing with other humans.
My SAH is one of the smartest men I know, but damn if he doesn't seem like an idiot sometimes with communication, honesty and just recognizing emotions. Empathy? Don't even think about it for a while.
What I thought was empathy in the beginning, (after the As and start of recovery) was really his intense shame. He felt bad more because of his shame, than about my feelings. You'll learn that shame is at the base of all the SA struggles.
IMO, (not being a CSAT or a professional, but the wife of one of these guys) your WH does seem to demonstrate a lot of the behaviors.
Just not having a diagnosis or not going to meetings does not mean he isn't SA. It means he still thinks he can control it. Without help, he can't. All of the lashing out in was most likely compounded by his "white knuckling" which means trying to resist without the support and tools he needs to be truly sober.
Take care of yourself right now. Find some support for you. Take the focus off of what he is or isn't doing (except for safety concerns) and get help for you.
Feel free to PM anytime and keep posting and reading here.
[This message edited by too trusting BW at 7:50 AM, September 17th (Thursday)]
I hope you enjoyed your lunch.
I'm realizing how much my own co-dependency issues (took me a long time to admit I had them!!) affect other areas of my life.Case in point: I have an 11-year-old daughter who has a new job delivering ad flyers in the neighborhood. She and her brother (who also has the same job for a different part of the neighborhood) want a Wii so are working towards getting enough $$. Rather than let the two of them work hard, I'm finding myself helping them sort the flyers, helping them deliver, pulling the cart because it's heavy blah blah blah. This morning I was up at the crack of dawn with my daughter, pulling the cart, walking the dog (so my husband didn't have to get up early), delivering to the houses with the longest driveways so my daughter didn't have to... Get the picture?? I'm constantly rescuing everyone from hardship, discomfort, etc. In the meantime,I'm feeling resentful because my I'm behind in work, the house is a mess, and on and on. Classic,isn't it?
I know what I have to do...which is leave everyone to their own devices and take care of myself. But why is that so hard to do?
There isn't much you can do to "help". This is a journey his must take on his own, to fix himself. You can be his cheerleader if you wish. But he HAS to do his own work.
Besides Mending a Broken Heart, you also may want to consider reading the book "Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend. (They als0 have a book, boundaries in marriage."
Now is your time, to figure out what you will and will not live with in a marriage.
I also had issues with my husband's SA in the beginning. My husband's addiction didn't escalate beyond porn. I caught him ONCE in 11 years. He never oogled, leared or anything in front of me. I've also found, in my journey, that I can't wrap my head around why addiction as a coping strategy. Why not knitting, running, or a good book? I don't attempt to understand that anymore, as its just wasted effort..
It helped me to learn about addiction. My husband wasn't a horn-dog or a pervert. He was trying to go through life numb-without feeling. He used sex as a way to do that-to self medicate. My husband's trigger is not having his emotional needs met. His triggers don't have anything to do with sex.
I always knew something was "off" with my husband. I married him full well, knowing we had NO non-sexual intimacy. And what little we did have, quickly evaporated as his addiction escalated. Seriously, if we grunted to each other before d-day, that was pretty good communication for us.
I have come to grips that I cannot help him and that he needs to help himself. Wow! That took how many years for me?
I have been working hard on my boundries and sticking to them. It was difficult until just recently. Right now i think I have finally realize who the person is that I have been married to. That's been extrememly disappointing.
WH has not sought out the appropriate support as far as I know. He seems to be in some sort of fog and not facing who he is honestly. It has been difficult for me to think about all the time he has previously spent in therapy not being honest with the IC's so he can get help.
I know I can't make him get help or change him. I'm trying to figure out right now if I can live with it.
He seems to be in some sort of fog and not facing who he is honestly.
I think you hit it right there. And until he can see himself honestly, he won't make any real progress. I wish I could tell you how to help him with self-honesty -- is he posting and reading on the SA thread in the Wayward forum? Good luck sticking to your boundaries
Hope your lunch went well and was a well-deserved break from the sh**!.
Im wondering if I should see a CSAT? Is this something that would work, being that my WH is a SA?
I am seeing an IC who is married to a rSA -- while she's not a CSAT, she knows well the issues we spouses face. If you want her name, I'd be glad to give it to you. Hugs --
He has not consistently done anything I have asked him to do.
I have sent him links, found an online SA meeting for him, directed him towards this site...he has been on here but when I read his posts I do not see him being honest. If he's not being honest how can he get the help he needs? I know I should maybe stop reading his posts but they give me insight as to whether or not he is in reality yet.
I'm not sure why it's so hard to follow my written boundries statement. I gave him a clear set of my boundries and even have given him clear examples yet he continues not respecting the bounries or me. I've gone so far as to send him a video on how to apologize correctly. I know I shouldn't have done so much of the work. I really wanted to be at peace knowing I did all I could.
I am now feeling like I am sort of living with the enemy. I do not trust him and have no idea what he is capable of at his point.
I hate feeling that way.
My view of the future is him never changing and me always being on guard.
You WILL know when your husband is actually recovering. His behavior will tell you. But you also have to do the work to learn to trust your gut again.
I know very little about my husband's recovery. We didn't talk much about his therapy. I didn't want to hear about his urges. Frankly, this was his mess, and I wanted nothing to do with it. It was simply too painful for me.
My husband made the leap from sobriety to recovery after being sober for 9 months. He actually started talking. To people. It scared the CRAP out of me, and at first, I thought he was hitting on everyone.
Then, I noticed, Ohh, hey, he's been communicating with others/me for a full month now..then two months..then six. So I said, well, OK this seems to be a permanent behavior. Then he began sharing some thoughts and emotional needs. I thought to myself, huh. This is new.
Then other things happened. He became present in the running of our household. I could make requests, and he would hear them as an attack on him, that he wasn't enough.
Our predictible fights (you know, the same fights that happened monthly) started coming once every 3 months. At 18 months of my husband's recovery, we missed having the fight. Again, scared the crap out of me. We've only had one since, triggered by nearly all of HALT on both our ends.
Somewhere, in all of this, we began operating as a team. That was something new as well.
We also finally started connecting during sex. We've been having sex for 11 years before d-day. And we connected for the first time, in year 12. Which also scared the crap out of me. The connecting was hit or miss for a bit, and now we connect all the time.
It's SO SO hard to take a step back, and become nearly an impartial observer of our lives when we are in the thick of things. But that's what you need to do right now.
Learn to trust yourself. You'll know when if/when your husband gets it, without reading his posts.
[This message edited by IRN2006 at 12:31 PM, September 17th (Thursday)]
"Right now i think I have finally realize who the person is that I have been married to. That's been extrememly disappointing."
I have found myself here too...
"He has not consistently done anything I have asked him to do."
It's so strange how we can have somany similarities....Im here for ya!
I posted this in general, but here it is here too:
I looked up on the AFF site just to see. WH profile is still there. I tried sending the password to his email, nothing,. Then I recreated the old "secret" email I found. Still nothing. Im feeling like there may be yet another email address Im not aware of. He has had NO activity in the past 3 months. Thats seems good, but still so many unanswered questions....
[This message edited by whatnowaz at 1:13 PM, September 17th (Thursday)]
[This message edited by whatnowaz at 1:14 PM, September 17th (Thursday)]
Atta girl, making progress with your own poop. We're never too old to do something else better.
With regard to :
I know what I have to do...which is leave everyone to their own devices and take care of myself. But why is that so hard to do?
It might make it easier to think longer term. The kids might grip and whine about the hard work today, but it is a lesson learned in work ethic, savings, and earning something on their own. The best gift you can give them is to help them learn to be healthy, independent people. Doing their work for them makes them dependant. Teaching them to manage their own responsibilities makes them independent.
Just like you wouldn't feed them a diet of junk food if you want them to develop healthy bodies, don't let them indulge in junk behavior if you want them to develop healthy emotionally.
edited for typos (I always have to!)
Today I asked him what his intentions are since he has decided to come home against my request, and he said he is still intending to somehow R. Then he wanted to know what I was hoping for. I told him I had no hope and was learning to accept he is not changing and decide whether or not I could live with that. I also told him that since when I am my usual mostly sweet self he treats me like crap and I had adopted a new curt attutde reserved for him and I was not going to be his doormat any longer.
It's nice to be able to say all that and know that I mean it and have suddenly found myself strong enough to follow through with it.
I am so sorry. I know your pain. Why me? why you? I guess there is a greater plan for us? Maybe this is our test? I just don't know. I'm praying for ya!
I usually think I should have picked up on it and known better.
I'm doing much better, and I am trying to figure out how I got here to help with some ideas, but I really don't know. It may be that I just simply don't have the time anymore, I am overextended with my own life--working 2 part time jobs, going to school full time, keeping up on the bills, and so, I can't do everyone else's work for them anymore.
I also had a bit of a hard time putting myself first. As in, yesterday I had a date, and I told my son he would have to arrange his fast food job schedule to be here to watch his sister. And I felt bad to ask him, and I also felt bad that I would not be here for my dd, but then I remembered, hey, I have needs too, and they are JUST AS IMPORTANT as everyone elses. I am getting better!
Also, I think that getting my own life and hobbies and chasing my own dreams again has probably helped quite a bit. I don't even feel bad anymore when I let other people do things for themselves. It is a big change for me, and I think I have come a long way on that front. Still working thru the bad-boy addict attraction though, so, I still have some work to do!