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User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts 4
Eternaloptimist
♀ Member
Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 11:36 AM, August 13th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

flappergirl,

Don't force yourself to make a decision you're not quite ready to make. You're in a good spot -- on your own, with time to sit with this and figure out where you want to go. Are you in IC? It might help you become clearer on how you feel.I'd also recommend reading what you can about sex addiction. The lies are part of the addiction -- and often the addict loses track of what's a lie and what's the truth. They're masters at compartmentalizing, tucking certain actions/feelings/thoughts away and having a hard time accessing them the way a "normal" person could. Whether you ultimately decide to stay or go, you'd benefit, I think, from understanding his addiction and how it may have encouraged (unconsciously) you to adopt certain behaviors in order to cope with the uncertainty. Patrick Carnes is the acknowledged expert in Sex Addiction and has a number of good books. I'm currently reading Deceived by Claudia Black, which I think is the best book for partners that I've come across.
But please give yourself a break. Your trust has been violated and your likely reeling from all this. Catch your breath and take all the time you need.


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Toronto
flappergirl
♀ New Member
Member # 25117
Default  Posted: 4:39 PM, August 13th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, Eternaloptimist! If I'm not ready to make the decision now, I don't know when that will be. I'm just so sick of this. I've been dealing with this for 12 years! I've suffered though no recovery (there wasn't much info at the time), then fake recovery (3 years worth) and now his "toeing around" at recovery. After all this, I feel I SHOULD be at a point where I can make this decision. What's funny is that I, in fact, did decide to divorce, and now I'm waffling on that decision because I'm just overcome with grief and missing my H (mostly as a friend/companion, romantic attraction has been nil for many years for me).

I'm not in IC, yet. I've been going back to school and really haven't had the time. Now that's coming to a close, so I'm planning to start very soon. I've been in IC before, 5 years ago (when he started his fake recovery) and that started me down the path of my own recovery and making boundaries and doing what I need to take care of myself (prompting me to go back to school).

I've read every Carnes book there is and so has H. I have tried to understand this addiction for a long time. I have seen other posts talking about "Deceived", so I have ordered this from Amazon as well. It certainly couldn't hurt and it will probably help me in some way, at least.

Another thing that is making me quite anxious about deciding, is that my lease is up for the room that I rent in about a month, I have to give notice in two weeks or so. I'm unemployed at the moment, and that doesn't appear to be changing any time soon. So, I really won't be able to afford this place any longer. I either have to move back in with my H (if I decide to give it another go) or move in with my parents, who have graciously offered me one of their rooms, rent free. My parents live about 2 hrs away from where we currently live, so if I moved there, I would have to find a job (or start my freelance biz in my new career path) over there. I would most likely do that if I decide to divorce.

I'm just so frustrated as I've been trying to decide since February (when I moved out). And, literally, one day I'm dead certain I want D, and the very next I want to R. It literally feels like my head is splitting in two.


Posts: 5 | Registered: Aug 2009
whatnowaz
♀ Member
Member # 24543
Default  Posted: 4:18 PM, August 14th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Flappergirl~

I am clearly NO expert. But, what I do know is that you can set certain boundaries that are consequences for his behavior or lack there of.

For me, I have been dealing with this for almost 16 years. Most of it not being aware of what I was really dealing with. I was young, had kids young, financially dependent. I would always say "this is it" but then forgive and move on. Only to have things happen again.

Just this last Dday I realized this is clearly an addiction that has a firm grasp on him. This is also the first time he has admitted he has a problem and has been willing to get some help. Albeit, not the type of help I am wanting him to get, but again he was raised witht he belief that "secular" counseling is not right, or accpeted. My point being, that now I have set a boundary of no sex until he has met the agreements we set in our initial MC appointment. It's been three weeks, as I did give in at the beginning.

Now that I am reading "DECIVED" and seeing that I cannot control HIS recovery, only my own, have I realized I CAN be strong and proactive in my own right.

I realize you don't live with him, but you can set boundaries and at the same time, not have to make this final. It is very difficult to make the decision to leave for once and for all. I have wanted to leave many times, but couldnt do it. If you aren't working, can you get some state funded insurance and get some counseling for yourself? I think getting in to talk to someone would be helpful. Until then go to a library and see about some books on sex addiction and even co-addiction. I think you are on the right track, this is NOT ans easy road!!!


ME(BS)-33
HIM(WH)SA(not officially Dx)-41
Married 8 years
together 15
D-day too many to remember
most recent 6-16-09
kids 4,12,14

They say "Love conquers all" Well, I am afraid they are WRONG!


Posts: 174 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: arizona
Eternaloptimist
♀ Member
Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 8:36 PM, August 15th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would lean toward moving in with your parents and starting a freelance biz (the beauty of freelance, of course, is that two hours isn't really too far if you want to keep your business base broad geographically). At least your head will be clear as you start a business -- and getting excited and motivated about your career may just make your future a bit clearer, too.
I'm an awful decision maker -- I waffle like crazy. However, the older I get, the more I've learned to turn off my head and listen to my gut. The wisdom seems to be there. My head is a moron! And my heart -- stupider still.


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Toronto
flappergirl
♀ New Member
Member # 25117
Default  Posted: 9:23 PM, August 15th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, Eternaloptimist. That's what I'm leaning toward too. It would at least buy me some more time for decision making. Even if I stayed with H, I would be starting this biz, so it doesn't really matter too much where I start it, I should be able to find clients either way.

But, dang him for relapsing and lying about it so close to what I had set for myself as "decision time". I sometimes can't even believe I have ANY love feelings left for this man!


Posts: 5 | Registered: Aug 2009
hoping2heal
♀ Member
Member # 16738
Default  Posted: 6:22 AM, August 16th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm DONE. FINALLY. My CSAT/IC did an imagery thing with me last week that had me imagining what it would feel like to wake up and know the person next to you will not hurt you. You can trust him. The thought of lying to you or sneaking around behind your back would horrify him. I FINALLY get it.

I'm done with his minimizing and denying his significant issues. I'm sick of being blamed for his behaviors. This is costing me too much. I've become a fat, sloppy, isolated mess who can't make or keep friends. All because the ONE PERSON who SHOULD make me feel loved and cherished makes me feel worthless and unlovable. I can't do it any more.

He's been diagnosed as "borderline SA", which of course he took to mean he's A-Ok and we're suppose to start MC. NO. Not going to do it. I'm not putting one more effort into a relationship with someone who either has serious problems he refuses to acknowledge or a serious character flaw.

The sad part is I DO believe he loves me and doesn't want a D. But I don't know if it's even POSSIBLE for him to fix whatever it is that's wrong with him.

I'm going to make an appointment with my CSAT and his CSAT for the two of us and I'm going to lay it all on the line and say how messed up it all is (and I know the CSATs will back me up). He either acknowledges he has significant issues and go to IC/CSAT once a week and I'll wait and see what happens, or I leave. Period.

Not doing it anymore!!!


BS (me) - 38
FWH - 38
4 kids
'98 - PA/EA resulted in us separating
'06 - discovered he'd joined 6 married dating websites
'07 - discovered EA
'09 - FWH admits he's a sex addict -- now working on recovery!

Posts: 1762 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: Central Florida
JustWow
♀ Member
Member # 19636
Default  Posted: 6:37 AM, August 16th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

H2H;

Good going, lady. It looks like someone has found a solid boundary, and let go of the outcome. I know it isn't easy, but you're doing really well.

(((((h2h)))))


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3557 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
broken11
♀ Member
Member # 23277
Default  Posted: 10:57 AM, August 16th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

H2H,

(((hugs))) I know how hard it is to reach this point. I hope you can find some peace soon! Let us know how the meeting goes.


Me: BW 30
WH:30
D-day #2 2/26/09
Filed for the big D

Posts: 619 | Registered: Mar 2009
SorrowHeart
♀ Member
Member # 18474
Default  Posted: 12:41 PM, August 16th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have been going through the annulment process in my church. A psychologist recently assessed the ex and I, based on our interviews, and pegged the ex as possessing 'narcissistic' traits. Would that mean he is a narcissist rather than a SA? Or could he be both? Does narcissism go hand and hand with SA?

During our marriage, he had been acting out with multiple partners and swing clubs for years before I discovered what he was up to. He still doesn't think he has a problem, but that I do.

I have read the books by the Cairns and portions of Claudia Black's through Google Books, but am frustrated that they apply only to couples who are working on the SA issues together. The ex doesn't think he has any issues and is in complete denial, probably because of his narcissistic personality. So maybe I should be posting in the NPD thread?


Living one day at a time.

Mom of three

DD: September 23, 2005

Divorced April 10/08


Posts: 163 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: Alberta
Eternaloptimist
♀ Member
Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 9:25 AM, August 17th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

H2H,

That sounds like a powerful exercise -- I'm glad it gave you clarity.

flappergirl,
Good luck. Just keep on putting one foot in front of the other building your life...if there's room in it for a RECOVERING spouse, you'll know it.

Sorrowheart,
I can't really answer your question -- far beyond the realm of my two-bit psychoanalytic abilities. However, I think you should post in whatever forum you feel you get the most from. I'm sure you'll notice that some posts simply resonate more than others because they more closely match your own experience. Why not monitor both and post where you see fit? You're certainly welcome to...


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Toronto
JustWow
♀ Member
Member # 19636
Default  Posted: 10:04 AM, August 17th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorrow Heart:

NPD or SA or both? Which came first, the chickenor the egg?? I imagine it would be more than a little hard to sort out. If you think about it, SA is an intimacy disorder, right? So, people who don't form intimate relationships with other people tend, probably to be extremely focused on themselves, and how to use the world to meet their own needs, and to hell with everyone else.

I'm an acountant, though, not a shrink! It just seems that maybe these two disorders, NPD and SA, kind of fit hand and glove, and one would have to get to the root cause to sort it all out. I don't think there is necessarily a "one per customer" policy on personality/phsycological disorders.

Post in both. You'll probably learn the most.

But remember, most important is your own recovery, not necessarily diagnosing him. Take care of you. We spouses of these folks can tend to get bogged down chasing our spouses issues, whereas if we chased our own, we'd be healing much sooner and beter.


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3557 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
Eternaloptimist
♀ Member
Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, August 17th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But remember, most important is your own recovery, not necessarily diagnosing him. Take care of you. We spouses of these folks can tend to get bogged down chasing our spouses issues, whereas if we chased our own, we'd be healing much sooner and beter.

Amen to that!! I need to attach that to the end of a two-by-four so that everytime I get whacked, I'm reminded.


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Toronto
whatnowaz
♀ Member
Member # 24543
Default  Posted: 6:27 PM, August 17th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Please tell me what you all think of this:

My WH best friend called me early last week to ask if my WH could go with with the guys to celebrate a particuar achievement of one of them. I said I'm not in the business of telling grown men they can't go out but our trust is still not there. He understood, and WH went out. He checked in twice during the night. Got home at 2:45 am and everything seemed fine. I did ask him to be home by 1am but I knew that wasnt logical. Anyways, the next day the best friends calls WH on cell and they have a conversation. At one point I went to the garage to do laundry, but turned back around to come back in. Just then WH walked out of the room and didnt know I was in the home. I overheard him telling his BF that "I just told my wife we were at such and such a place" like that wasnt the truth. I waited down the hall and as he walked in and saw me I lost it. I went off on him and grabbed my keys and left the house. Leaving him with the kids of course. so, for the next hour I talked to his BF's wife who is a friend of mine. We compared notes on the outing and she couldnt believe he lied to me about where they went. The thing is, he didn't need to lie. They went to a hotspot night club, and sat in VIP but to me it didnt matter where they went. It was the fact he lied.

That has been the main problem(other than the cheating of course) over our entire relationship: the LIES! He is compulsive! He lies for reasons unknown to me and everyone I know. For no reason at all! Why does he do this. He apologized non stop until I came home. He said it's something he is working on. He thought I was gonna be mad so he thought he'd down play it.

I talked to his BF too, he said nothing happened, he was good. I have nothing to worry about!I told him that wasnt the point!

Is this a character flaw? I hear him lie to others too. He just lies....

[This message edited by whatnowaz at 6:30 PM, August 17th (Monday)]


ME(BS)-33
HIM(WH)SA(not officially Dx)-41
Married 8 years
together 15
D-day too many to remember
most recent 6-16-09
kids 4,12,14

They say "Love conquers all" Well, I am afraid they are WRONG!


Posts: 174 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: arizona
Eternaloptimist
♀ Member
Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 9:36 PM, August 17th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

whatnowaz,

My IC said something interesting to me last week: We were talking about the fact that my husband will go off on me about something and I'm left baffled because I didn't say/do/imply whatever he's upset about. She said that, at some point in most marriages (most "distressed" marriages, as she refers to them) your spouse will start treating you as if you're the parent he has issues with. So, for me, the fact that his mother disapproved about EVERYTHING he did (from how he wore his hair to his major in school to whether or not he got a dog as a pet) -- he now carries that fear of disapproval to me. She says that the more I remind him that I'm NOT his mother, the more he'll be brought back to reality and stop simply reacting.
That's a long way of suggesting that, perhaps, his fear of disapproval is so great that he lies about everything JUST IN CASE it might generate disapproval. In no way am I suggesting that it's okay - and it's certainly a large part of an SA's modus operandi: lying, minimizing, compartmentalizing...and clearly something he needs to work on.
I only bring up what my IC said because my husband is quite similar.He always minimizes how long he was doing something (ie going to get a coffee), watching TV, staying up late...because he's sure that I disapprove. In many cases, I could care less...


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Toronto
flappergirl
♀ New Member
Member # 25117
Default  Posted: 11:48 PM, August 17th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That's a long way of suggesting that, perhaps, his fear of disapproval is so great that he lies about everything JUST IN CASE it might generate disapproval. In no way am I suggesting that it's okay - and it's certainly a large part of an SA's modus operandi: lying, minimizing, compartmentalizing...and clearly something he needs to work on.

This is the case with my H as well. He lies or minimizes just in case it will be disapproved of. In my H's case, it was his father who constantly disapproved. H could do nothing right in his father's view. Unfortunately, H cast me in the parental role too, and can't seem to help himself with the lying to me.


Posts: 5 | Registered: Aug 2009
Eternaloptimist
♀ Member
Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 1:54 PM, August 18th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

flappergirl,
I'm getting better at recognizing that his minimizing/lying has nothing to do with me. Nor do his little "outbursts" when he reacts as if I've accused him of something. I'm getting to the point where I'm able to stand back from the exchange and -- rather than just "react" myself -- see that he's not reacting to me at all, but to a pervasive sense he has of disappointing or doing something wrong. It has really helped me to stop thinking this has anything to do with me. And when I call him on it, he's getting better at realizing that he over-reacted...again. Ideally, he'll get to a point where he can stop himself before doing it...but he's not there yet. We're inching closer, though.


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Toronto
hurtbs
♀ Member
Member # 10866
Default  Posted: 1:07 AM, August 19th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Anyone go to spouses of SA meetings? I'm having trouble finding a local support group in my area. I really don't have the time to drive 2.5 hours (one way) to attend a weekly meeting - not to mention the cost!

Also, I've been looking at COSA, but it's so spiritually based. I do *not* believe in God and would really like to find a program that is not spiritually based - no I am not spiritual either. I'm pretty firmly agnostic (probably 85% atheist). Are they as spiritually heavy as their website proclaims? Are there some other groups out there that you would recommend?

Everything that I find on recovery for spouses has such a Chrisitian bent to it, which immediately puts me off and I have trouble taking useful/productive material from it.


Me BW Him XSAWH
DDays - 1 was too many
Divorced 2012

"In life, unlike chess, the game continues after checkmate." - Asimov
"Be patient and tough; someday this pain will be useful to you." - Ovid


Posts: 15133 | Registered: Jun 2006
2br02b
♀ Member
Member # 19664
Default  Posted: 8:03 AM, August 19th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hurtbs,
You said:
would really like to find a program that is not spiritually based - no I am not spiritual either.

I can't suggest the Partner's Workshop on Recovery Nation enough. It's free, it's self-paced and health based rather than disease based. No mention of religion either. I can't say enough good things about it.

whatnowaz.
You stated:

I waited down the hall and as he walked in and saw me I lost it. I went off on him

Just an idea - but what if you didn't go off on him when he lied but did a 180? Don't reinforce the negative behavior. Maybe the lies are to get your attention in a negative way. Try praising when he's truthful. Just my 2 woth.


Me 51
Him 53 (and SA)
D-Day#1 9/19/1981
D-Day#2 11/23/2008
D-Day#3 - 6/6/09 (Actually D-Day!) - full disclosure given.
Forgiveness - 8/30/09
Married 29 years
2 adult children
Reconciling
2BR02B - that is the question.

Posts: 81 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Phoenix, AZ
too trusting BW
♀ Member
Member # 15459
Default  Posted: 10:30 AM, August 19th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HurtBS,
I go to COSA weekly and have not had any issues with it really being religious. I am actually of an "out of the norm" faith.
When I do the reading of the 12 steps at the meeting I always emphasize AS WE KNOW GOD, because it is important to me to make that distinction.
I was reading a bit on addiction and the connection between healing and spirituality, and it described spirituality as feeling a part of the world/ universe whatever, and not necessarily a particular god thing. I am not repeating it well, but it helped to see that definition differently.

As we are supposed to with our 12step groups, I take what I need and leave the rest. Even the serenity prayer for me, is just a regular reminder to live my life in a healthy way for myself, Not a prayer.

I think, unless the specific group proves to be overly religious in mood, you won't notice too much of a problem with that.

Heck, I see more people get caught up worried about the first step; "I don't have a problem with compulsive sexual behavior! He does!"

The best suggestion I was given was to attend 6 meetings before I made a decision whether it was for me or not. I was leaning towards not right up to the 5th one.


Me 39
SA-FWH 44
11yrs M
In R-maybe
3 DC from Marriage #1
1 DS together
at least 4 d-days

Posts: 1300 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Kansas
gettingthrutoday
♀ Member
Member # 21365
Default  Posted: 12:01 PM, August 20th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hurtbs --

Everything that I find on recovery for spouses has such a Chrisitian bent to it, which immediately puts me off and I have trouble taking useful/productive material from it.

I know exactly what you mean -- I've been avoiding going to COSA meetings for that exact reason. And I'm a Christian! I just don't like to be preached at constantly. However, my IC has been really encouraging me to go and check it out.

Tootrusting's advice to commit to 6 meetings sounds practical -- although, if it were really preachy, I would struggle with even 6.


Me BS 52
married 30 years
Ddays 10/20/08, 11/23/08, 3/09
Primary Love Language: Honesty
My top 5 needs: love, honesty, faithfulness, mutual respect, communication

Posts: 382 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Southeastern US
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