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User Topic: Long Term Affair Thread XV
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 6:17 PM, July 29th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi everyone. I’m back and all caught up – finally! Firstly “hi” to the newbies. Please know you are welcome here and understood by those who can relate to your situation. We all have our traumatic tales and, although each is different, we are united by the fact that our WS’s deceits dragged on into years of duplicity, double lives and lies, leaving us wondering about the truth of our marriages. LTA’s are notoriously difficult to overcome, but it can be done and there is light at the end of the tunnel, however faint.
*****

Leapyearbaby (LYB??), I have to agree that reconciliation is hard if not impossible if you are doing this not only apart, but with one foot out of the door. If you are apart but “courting”, that’s different. From what I have read (only skim-reading, so please forgive me if I am wrong here), it sounds as if you are heading for D anyways.
******

Tryn, I’m not sure about the AD’s for you seeing as you have only been off since March. Did you come off them by yourself, or as prescribed? I just wonder if it’s a good idea so soon after giving them up. And, as you say, you may be back with the “finish” problem again and seeing as sex has been such an issue between you and your FWW (could her lack of interest be down to AD’s?) are you trying to use them as a means to keep your own libido down? I know you are low and have no motivation, but do you think AD’s will help in that direction? Personally, I’ve taken myself off to the gym, taken the dogs out for very long walks (down to one oldie now tho), got outrageously drunk, driven recklessly and vented in my journal. Oh, and had cosmetic surgery. I don’t know why I wouldn’t take AD’s, my GP said I was “severely” depressed and showing all classic signs of grief. But I knew WHY I was feeling that way and what works for one is not always right for another. I like the captions to your photos, btw… very apt.
*****

Hi shirley. Been thinking about you and your mum. Glad to hear she’s coping a little better. The two year mark doesn’t have to be bad, it just was for me with all FWH’s continued stupid lies and crap. Soon after that, I stopped looking or taking any new stuff on the A(‘s). I’ve drawn my own conclusions and he can’t tell me it ain’t so, cos he’s just a bare-faced liar covering his own ass.
*****

Which brings me on to the business of boundaries and HB’s question.

My H thinks that he can erect the boundaries and still maintain "business contacts" with women from high school. I think this spells disaster, but my IC has come down with you wise ladies and basically said I need to let him figure it out on his own as to his issues

Well, it’s my opinion that FWH had a “tester” affair starting in '99 with another old gf before the biggie with the ex-fiancee. To go with the fling (short PA, maybe?) back in 92/93 when I'd had a couple of miscarriages. He was primed and ready to go for the LTA, or even to walk out on this marriage if his old bf/gf relationship went back on a healthier track. He still went off to a couple of reunions after dday. I just told him he’s better not get inappropriate with anyone and left it at that. He KNOWS if I was to suspect a think, the slightest thing, that will be it. Finish. Done and gone. If he lies, he lies to himself cos I don’t believe him anyhow. And it is still the case. As you said, we are not the same people we were pre-dday. I have radically changed. I do not have unconditional love for him anymore, I do not believe I can rely on him to put me first in a crisis, I do not believe he has my best interests at heart, I am one step removed. He will never have 100% of me again. If he wants something and I can see no benefit to ME, I won’t do it. Do your own fucking clothes shopping, mister. If he wants this marriage to continue, he will prove it by his actions.

That said, he had obviously been consulting my friend (aka UKg2) about this holiday we went on. It was fabulous, btw. We got to our room and it was so stunning and peaceful, I almost cried. A canopied bed, vaulted and beamed ceiling with dark rattan in between, a great view (we were way up in the hills) down over the town and harbour, even the view from the shower was amazing! The food was Michelin graded, the staff glided about bringing little trial taster smoothies and cakes, bringing drinks by the pool, table service was superb, chamber service could not be faulted. I think it was the best hotel I have ever stayed in. Honestly.

We get home, UKg2 comes round for dinner and says “did he pop the question??!” Well, he did sort of, on the last night when he had commissioned a romantic heart shaped dessert. He said he knew he had never actually asked me to marry him, but he did very much want me to be his wife again. I kept quiet and let it go by. He’d been fiddling with my unringed fingers all week. What could I say? For me Wife=Doormat and I am NOT going there again! And then yesterday he said he can’t play golf because he can’t concentrate until he has me back as his wife – that bloody word again!!! How can I tell him that I am prepared to be his partner, but I can never consider myself as his “wife”? Why can’t he accept that I was never that bothered about getting married in the first place (which was a big, big deal for bitchface) and part of me wishes we hadn’t got married at all? He asked her, that bloody needy, pathetic creature, to marry him Not once, but several times. She’d kept the fucking ring he gave her in 1974 - or whenever. Wife? No thanks. Marriage is obviously just a romantic notion for him – to go with all his other poetical fantasies. This marriage has been a LIE. That woman has been around us like an ethereal mist. All those promises he made to her became a horrible reality when she wanted him to leave me. The man just got cold feet. He’s a fucking coward. And he’s making ME feel the bully by not accepting his proposal of sorts? I didn’t let it spoil the evening though. But I did feel guilty, so I said ILY and that seemed enough for him at that moment.

As someone said, it’s the emotional involvement with LTA’s that’s so heart breaking. We lay there looking at the view from the bed, with the lights dimmed and I wanted to hold that moment for a while. Transmit it to memory. But of course, that’s what they did too. They had their moments captured, their desires for an endless night, their reluctant disentangling of limbs to get up and carry on with their separate mundane lives. And it just kills me. I can’t have anything just for me or us. He gave so much to her and shared what was ours.

I’m rambling, knowing this is my dday hour. It's just after midnight here in the UK. Her repeated silent calls to the house being the catalyst for his confession. Just as well he’s over 200miles away.

BT - seeing your dday is same as mine. It's raining here. Fitting.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 6:54 PM, July 29th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, and while we were down staying at M&FIL’s, I showed MOW’s Facebook pic. She said, "oh yes, I recognise her there, she always had a shy look." A SHY LOOK??? Not too fucking shy to get her kit off and shag with my WH was she??? SHY? Gimme strength.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 6:55 PM, July 29th (Wednesday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 7:49 PM, July 29th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

welcome back ukgirl...glad to hear that your trip was a success, so sorry you still feel torn....

and ramble away, we all do...

and its raining here too.....this has been the oddest july weather wise for us new yorkers.....

anyways welcome home....


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
Lost Heart2
♀ Member
Member # 21793
Default  Posted: 3:40 AM, July 30th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey Ukg
The holiday sounds wonderful. Hopefully this will mark the first of many steps he makes towards you.

Re his proposal - I hope he views this as a learning experience whereby he has to get to know YOU and what YOU want, not who he thinks you are or what he thinks you need.

Ukg, I mean this a a gentle 2x4 - you have to let OW go, Sweetie. I dont know how but you have to for your sake.

I think maybe your MIL mistook "shy" for "slutty, immoral, dimwitted, shallow twat". But thats just me thinking...

What are your plans for today? I know how antiversaries suck, so hope you plan on being real nice to the most impt person you know - you.

***
(((((BT)))))
Sending you massive hugs for yesterday.

***
Miracle,
I had forgotten that all your chn are teens. My DS is just 13, I cant imagine having 3 of those!
Guess you have to keep that GSOH.


LTA BS

Dday#1 02.06.06
Dday#2 28.11.06


Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.


Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: London, UK
Lost Heart2
♀ Member
Member # 21793
Default  Posted: 4:08 AM, July 30th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tend to look at this from a little different perspective. The primary reason we are in the position we are in is that he has a self-image problem. The only way he can make a positive contribution to our relationship is if he develops a healthy self-image. How can he do that if he thinks what he has done is unforgiveable? KWIM

Kalamity,
I was brought up to turn the other cheek- when I struggled with certain aspects of this or showed that I struggled with this, I was told that I was difficult and moody; that I was the problem. So I learned to keep it in,put on a smile and try hard to be a good girl so i dont get in trouble (although that didnt always work). I can now look back and see that it wasnt actually me who had been the problem- it was the adults who "loved" me, yet still treated me badly.

Ditto in my M.
Which gave my H license to do what he wanted and treat me as badly as he dared, because he knew I would let it go, that I will try harder to be even better.
It takes a special kind of narcissism and cruelty to treat someone you purport to love, like that.

He has done some awful awful things to me, some of which I think I have downplayed in that time so that I can just get through it.
I have only begin looking at this in IC and am trying to heal some of those blisters.

I have battled with forgiving him since dday#1, so much so that I turned those negative feelings inwards, rather than at him.

I have since learned that I dont have to forgive him if I dont want to. I have taken that burden off my shoulders for now. I dont have to feel or do anything I dont want to. Honestly,the more I look at our life together with less blinkered eyes, the more I realise what a bad person he was.
And I think at some shallow level, he does too - hence his fight to NOT look too deeply as his actions. Which is a shame, for until he does and makes peace with what he did, he will always, IMO, be blocked from realising his potential. But that is his struggle, not mine.

Re his building his self esteem - I agree with you that is prob one of his main reasons for us being in this mess. However, his self esteem is not and should not be dependent on my forgiveness. I WILL not be responsible for his actions anymore. He should build his own healthy self esteem for himself. Part of that includes becoming a better H and F. My role is to allow him to do that, to encourage him and maybe guide him in some aspects.

H thinks that just because he is not cheating anymore, that he is a better H and F now - that he should be automatically forgiven. What he stuggles with is that real forgiveness takes time, and can not be accomplished in a year or 2, esp if he still displays characteristics that show that his demons have not yet all been slayed.

Kalamity, I apologise for the longwinded reply - I so wish I had a more succinct way of communicating (just yesterday my boss moaned why I had to re-write War and Peace in every report ).
I hope I was able to make my point across.

Take care,
LH

[This message edited by Lost Heart2 at 4:13 AM, July 30th (Thursday)]


LTA BS

Dday#1 02.06.06
Dday#2 28.11.06


Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.


Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: London, UK
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:14 AM, July 30th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hey iwantamiracle
at least my sense of humor is here! thats always a good thing......right?
I thought you needed that fact of nature..
I wonder if a small % of those cranes happen to switch partners? They hang around those fields that are loaded with chemicals? Effect the brain like AD's... lol

UKgirl.. I run about 10-18 miles a week, in 5k events, half Marathons... Getting close to health weight range on the charts to that does make me feel good... but I tell ya, these AD's are working. I quit my first round on my own... I need a boost or I'm going to lose my job! It really is about me... I'm working hard to focus on me... being the best H and best person... let the chips fall where the fall. BTW.. thanks for looking at my art...

I wonder about my sex/desire issues.. I often wonder if my problem is jealousy or curiosity... because I have only been with my W, one woman, in over 26 years... she was with OM's (2 of them) I guess over 200 times by the math...(I wanted that!) I want someone to want me so bad and want to "rock my world".... I have not initiated but once IC... pressure is off her... So far no side effects with this latest drug... wife says she's got something romantic planned tomorrow night.. we'll see.

Lost Heart2 -

H thinks that just because he is not cheating anymore, that he is a better H and F now
He is a better person... part of forgiving is asking to be forgiven... is he asking? For me I think I will totally forgive the day I that goes by where I live a normal life with happiness with my wife without thinking about the A...Not that I will forget but it is processed and just not thought about anymore... I know it is a process..

oh well have a good day ladies...


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
Lost Heart2
♀ Member
Member # 21793
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, July 30th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

part of forgiving is asking to be forgiven... is he asking?

No, he just assumed that I would have by now.


LTA BS

Dday#1 02.06.06
Dday#2 28.11.06


Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.


Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: London, UK
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:31 AM, July 30th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lh2:

GSOH
..what does this stand for?

Which gave my H license to do what he wanted and treat me as badly as he dared, because he knew I would let it go, that I will try harder to be even better.
It takes a special kind of narcissism and cruelty to treat someone you purport to love, like that.

He has done some awful awful things to me, some of which I think I have downplayed in that time so that I can just get through it.
I have only begin looking at this in IC and am trying to heal some of those blisters.

I have battled with forgiving him since dday#1, so much so that I turned those negative feelings inwards, rather than at him.

I have since learned that I dont have to forgive him if I dont want to. I have taken that burden off my shoulders for now. I dont have to feel or do anything I dont want to. Honestly,the more I look at our life together with less blinkered eyes, the more I realise what a bad person he was.
And I think at some shallow level, he does too - hence his fight to NOT look too deeply as his actions. Which is a shame, for until he does and makes peace with what he did, he will always, IMO, be blocked from realising his potential. But that is his struggle, not mine.

Re his building his self esteem - I agree with you that is prob one of his main reasons for us being in this mess. However, his self esteem is not and should not be dependent on my forgiveness. I WILL not be responsible for his actions anymore. He should build his own healthy self esteem for himself. Part of that includes becoming a better H and F. My role is to allow him to do that, to encourage him and maybe guide him in some aspects.

H thinks that just because he is not cheating anymore, that he is a better H and F now - that he should be automatically forgiven. What he stuggles with is that real forgiveness takes time, and can not be accomplished in a year or 2, esp if he still displays characteristics that show that his demons have not yet all been slayed.

this could be me and my wh....i was emotionally abused from the time we got engaged til d-day...i made excuses for it in my head.....i fought with him, where i didn't tolerate it, but in a way i did....i still stayed and loved him unconditionally.....i had no clue that he was also loving another woman, not just fucking her, but loving her and fucking me in her place..

and as far as forgiveness is concerned i know he is angry with me because i have not forgiven him, i have not moved on, i have not done anything he wants me to do where he is concerned.....he keeps trying to tell me that he is not angry, but you can clearly see he is......when this anger bursts it ought to be quite interesting to say the least....whether or not he will remain in this house after this explosion will be another matter...i just know it will come....i don't know when, but it will come....

anyways i am rambling....

tryn:

wonder about my sex/desire issues.. I often wonder if my problem is jealousy or curiosity... because I have only been with my W, one woman, in over 26 years... she was with OM's (2 of them) I guess over 200 times by the math...(I wanted that!) I want someone to want me so bad and want to "rock my world".

well answer your own question.....before you knew about her a, were you satified with your sex life with your wife....and i am not talking frequency....did youever long to try sex with someone else while you were "happily married"....?


He is a better person... part of forgiving is asking to be forgiven

i disagree with this totally, i don't think a person has to ask to be forgiven in order for forgiveness to take place....forgiveness is more about the person who is doing the forgiving...it means that person is done with the anger and the resentment....true forgiveness cannot happen until those 2 emotions are gone...and one can decide to forgive another without the person getting the forgiveness even knowing about it......asking is merely the person being selfish as opposed to working for and towards forgivness, because it has been earned.....

imo....there are 2 ways to forgive someone....by them earning it, or you finally coming to terms with what you've dealt, processing it and letting it go....

the first way of forgiveness is the one where everyone truly gains, because it has been earned and therefore completely deserved...the second one the person getting forgived gains nothing....because their own actions did nothing that warrants self-forgiveness....which mean that person will never truly be healed form the experience they want forgiveness from...

oh lord...time to get off my soapbox.....

talk about long winded....

thats enough for me for now anyways...

as always


((((((tribe))))))

[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 10:34 AM, July 30th (Thursday)]


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, July 30th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have since learned that I dont have to forgive him if I dont want to. I have taken that burden off my shoulders for now. I dont have to feel or do anything I dont want to………..
And I think at some shallow level, he does too - hence his fight to NOT look too deeply as his actions…..
However, his self esteem is not and should not be dependent on my forgiveness. I WILL not be responsible for his actions anymore………
Hmm. Have you been inside my head again, LostH? I no longer feel I have, at some point, to forgive FWH either. I am no longer m’d to that man, the one who was “unappreciated and undervalued” and sought escape with MOW. I have concluded that we were together, without the ex lurking in his heart, from 1982-88. Then we moved to her childhood town and he went looking for the sibling’s grave - without any mention to me. That was the start. He doesn’t want to look too deeply either, and frankly, I don’t blame him for that. I mean, given the choice, who would when what you’ve done is so despicable? He says he is the man I m’d. Guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree on that one. And anyway, I don’t want to be with the man that he was. The man he is now is slightly crushed around the edges and not one I really recognise. He seems to be totally lacking in self esteem, but that isn’t my problem. He seems to think it can all be put right with me agreeing to be his “wife” again and finding it within myself to forgive him, but that would mean being taken for granted and doing all the stuff he can perfectly well do for himself – and I won’t do that. I enabled him in his affair; my enabler is officially disabled!

I run about 10-18 miles a week, in 5k events, half Marathons...
Pretty fit then! I assume you are not getting enough serotonin through exercise then. Hope these ones work for you.
wife says she's got something romantic planned tomorrow night.. we'll see.
Try to just go with the flow. Not too much in the way of expectation on any level and that way your relaxed approach should help towards a good evening.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 10:40 AM, July 30th (Thursday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 10:51 AM, July 30th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was cross posting with you miracle, but seeing as we're looking at the forgiveness subject again, just want add my 2pence worth. I think forgiveness is a very personal thing and I am sure the meaning varies from person to person. I think forgiveness is something you do for yourself and, if you do, you can offer it or tell the perpetrator of the act that you have forgiven them. I am moving towards forgiving the person, but not the act. I don’t forgive that readily and I am not a turn the other cheek person either. It takes a lot to offend me to question whether or not I will forgive and this act has appalled and hurt me so deeply, I don’t think I can ever forgive what he did. I cannot forgive the complete disregard for other people. But recognising that FWH is just that – former – and unlikely to go down that path again means that I may be able to forgive the man. But I will not tell him that until I have truly forgiven him. And that’s not anytime soon. So…… we plod on.

GSOH - good sense of humour, btw. (- by the way )


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 11:38 AM, July 30th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

iwantamiracle...
did you ever long to try sex with someone else while you were "happily married"....?
I wouldn't say long.. but did have fantacy... but I'll say this, when ladies did flirt, I said NO! Thinking back now, I know our sex life started to fade quality and quantity as soon as she started with OM. It was so up and down though. I think it was because she would break up with him and come back to me... She was so messed up during all this... I still don't get all this in many ways. I guess have never been totally satisfied with my sex life... I wanted it more often and she did not for whatever reason. I always thought that was the way is was meant to be. I learned to cope, be happy without... You get turned down so much you just quit asking and live with.. some men don't. They go find it with someone else... I've been around so many men that bragged about having both...

i don't think a person has to ask to be forgiven in order for forgiveness to take place

I read the book The Five Languages of Apology and it says the forgiveness cycle is... offense is commited, apology is made, and forgiveness is given. It also says in a apology is multi... you need to...
- Express regret
- Accept respinsiblity
- Make Restitution
- Genuinely Repenting
- Request Forgiveness
Some people need someone to asked for forgiveness before they can forgive. I suppose it really boils down to personal choice. I know I have forgiven the OM... OM did send his apology through my best friend... Inside I did feel better after that... doesn't mean I want to ever see him or even say a word to him the rest of my life.. Obviously he has no self control, image issues, greed, and all the unhealthy unhappy behaviors that go along with people that have A's... But I am at peace with it.. my wife is really the one to blame... it was her that needed to say NO to him. She didn't.

UK... I'm not fit yet cause I'm still in over weight part of the chart 5'10" but about 187 down from over 215... Chart says I need below 176... I got down to 178 but gained some back lately. You cannot do it with just running... Diet is proving out to be most important. If I didn't love food so much! All I know is that, I have not felt the same since I started taking the AD and I have been able to focus more... so maybe I do need that chemical?


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
kalamity
♀ Member
Member # 21802
Default  Posted: 11:57 AM, July 30th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LH2: I completely understand where you are with the forgiveness thing. My comment was more directed toward the way WS's must feel about themselves. If they feel what they did is unforgiveable (i.e. they cannot forgive themselves or ever be forgiven by GOD, others, etc.), what value would be left in their lives? If the context of his comment, however, was to chastise you for not forgiving him yet...well, that's just wrong on so many levels!

UKg: Welcome back - glad you had a wonderful time! Have a glass of wine and celebrate what an amazing woman you are today! Our friends who are acquainted with OW are in total disbelief because she is so "shy." Go figure!

((Miracle)) Teenagers - sheesh! I have a Jr. High teacher friend who is writing a book titled "Heavy Sighs and Rolling Eyes." How appropriate is that?!

Tryin: Love your photos! What a fabulous outlet of expression. Keep 'em coming.


When it feels like your life is falling apart, perhaps it is falling in place.

BS(me)-56
WS-59: LTA (22+ years)
MOW-54: H's old girlfriend
D-day 08/11/08 (3 days before 25th anniversary)
Working hard on R


Posts: 104 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Nebraska
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 2:51 PM, July 30th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

the way WS's must feel about themselves. If they feel what they did is unforgiveable (i.e. they cannot forgive themselves or ever be forgiven by GOD, others, etc.), what value would be left in their lives?
Um, I don’t think my FWH ever looked at his affair with a “WS aware” pov, nor do I think he ever thought about the forgiveness aspect until it was all horribly out in the open. He didn’t think there was anything to forgive – what he was doing was somehow “different” and he is likely to have rationalised it by saying he owed it to himself, to MOW and (as an afterthought) to me to be with the “right” person. Ergo, from this lofty stance, there WAS nothing to forgive – maybe he even considered that I would be grateful if he decided to choose me! His values would be confirmed by his duty to stay by his wife while the children were dependent before departing with his life long love. Doing the right thing crap.

If I didn’t throw him straight out on the street and asked him to stay, I think he assumed that forgiveness would be automatic. But, of course, if his “choice” was me, MOW was supposed to do the right thing too; accept it was over and go back to her BH and that we would back to how we had been without me ever knowing what had been wrong with him or us. I hope that makes sense.

He was seriously screwed up. As they all were.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 2:52 PM, July 30th (Thursday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 6:03 PM, July 30th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

on this whole forgiveness thing...

its funny and sad...the ws's never wanted forgiveness until they were caught....they acted on their own selfish wants and justified it all, but when caught they knew the justifications were nothing but bullcrap....my wh tried to justify his behavior at first, even though he knew just how much more there was to tell and know...he justified it to himself for the entire time, then suddenly there is this so called epiphany....and whamo...he wants forgiveness......i don't think so!!!!

being that he's done nothing for me in the healing department, this will take twice as long and the forgiveness that i will eventuall feel wont heal him at all, because he has not earned it...

ok enough of that for now....

ther eis an si getttogether in ny in aug....i origianlly wanted to go without the wh, but its too far and i don't feel confortable driving there alone, and i don't do well driving in the dark period, so i asked my wh tonite and he said he would take me....i would rather go with him then miss it....

if any of you lta'ers are from the ny area and can come that would make me so happy, you guys have become like family.....

as always

(((((tribe)))))

p.s. thanks everyone for the support regarding my teens....still have one to go on the getting over yourself stuff.......it will happen, it just seems to be taking so long....i am not used to not communicating with my kids for a day, much less 2 days, with tomorrow a surefire 3rd....oh well.....this to shall pass....thank god!!!


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 6:57 AM, July 31st (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all,

I have to say I forgot about the antiversary until you mentioned it, UK. My d-day as a day doesn't really have an emotional pull for me. Never did.

I actually struggle much harder with my wedding anniversary. That is when I have a hard time with the memories and the reality of what actually was, rather than I what I wanted or believed. That comes up next month.

UK, it sounds like a good trip that you had. What do you think your husband believes now about the OW? That would be the key for me on whether I could stay with him or not and whether I could forgive him or not. I could live with someone who had (seriously) faulty thinking at one time but corrected it. But I couldn't live with someone who harbored lingering good feelings about an affair or an affair partner.

My H, for instance, said he believed that he loved the OW for a period of about six months early in the affair. But then he woke up and understood that he didn't. He kept on with it for a bunch of reasons that included power and control (over both of us and himself), keeping up with his cheating group of businesss associates, and a lot of other reasons that are just further indications of what a sick fuck he was at that point in time.

I can forgive him now because he knows he was a sick fuck and has worked so hard to be something different. And he is different.

So, the question is, is your husband different? And what does he believe about the OW and the affair now?

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
hearbroken
Member
Member # 8317
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, July 31st (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BT- Glad to "see" you. I agree about dday versus wedding aniversary- although for me both are rough, the wedding aniversary is harder. Seems like after our ddays, our FWHs all want to focus and celebrate on that wedding anniversary whereas for me that is the WORST day for my bitterness coming out. I always figured maybe a good aniversary gift would be me going away on a trip each year on my own without him for as many years as he had the LTA laugh:

Anyway, good to see you.

((((TRIBE)))))

I'm going to be quieter now as I embark upon processing my own issues- a 12 step program for me, lots of spiritual things both H and I are doing, and trying to support but not control H's recovery. Oh, throw in working on my boundaries and having my plans in place should those big boundaries be violated by H again. No small order...
HB


Dday1 8/05 (LTA)
Dday2 4/09 (online EA 2 weeks then confessed)
Dday 3 8/10 ("full disclosure" of more infidelity prior to 2009)

Posts: 869 | Registered: Sep 2005
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 3:28 PM, July 31st (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hb:

i looked online to 12 step programs, could not find one that corresponded to this issue.....would greatly appreciate it if you could just list the steps.....i am curious as to what they are....


as always
(((((tribe)))))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 5:16 AM, August 1st (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Miracle, the 12-step program can be altered for any situation. Most people know it as the Christian way forward for alcoholics and it is also used as a base for other addictive groups. The idea is to have a new path to walk on, to accept “help” spiritually to stay on that path, to look to your inner strength to help you overcome whatever problem it is you are dealing with.

“12 step” programs have been written for all kinds of other areas – work, money management, self esteem, exercise programs, etc. (I copy and pasted the one on “forgiveness” a long time ago, btw.)

Generally, the first step is acknowledgement, thereafter you can follow definite steps, rules and boundaries rather than looking to divine assistance. And then you move on from there with each day starting anew, putting successful days behind you and moving on in a positive way.

If I read it right, HB is using it as a self-improvement program, setting something out for herself and trying to get into a place where she comes to know and love herself again and to grow in confidence physically, mentally and spiritually. To know that while she cannot control her husband’s behaviour and choices, but she can her own. And, actually, that’s quite a difficult thing to do if you think about it, if you’ve been used to looking to and managing other people’s problems. It can have an unhealthy effect upon you.

Just my take.

ETA try googling “12 steps to” and see what you get. I like the 12 steps to sanity myself! Or how about “to become a millionaire”? Or even “12 steps to stair safety”???

[This message edited by UKgirl at 5:28 AM, August 1st (Saturday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 5:51 AM, August 1st (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Our wedding anniversary. It never really mean that much to me – well, it didn’t until after dday and then, like the wedding band, it took on a new significance. I really wasn’t bothered about getting married and I don’t think he was either. The only anni we celebrated was our 25th when we went back and stayed at the very expensive honeymoon hotel.

The odd thing is, it’s only now he wants me to be his “wife” and wear a band and I just don’t. He never wore a ring himself, but said he would for MOW, implying their relationship was worth that level of commitment, but ours wasn’t. Although in one card he wrote (during the A) he said the best decision of his life was marrying me, but that was probably trying to reel me back in.

I know it was all fantasy and games, but fuck, it hurts that I wasn’t worth considering for that romantic gesture (even though I never looked for a proposal), but she was – several times!!! So now he wants to wear a ring, wants me to wear a ring and all the jewellery he has bought me, but it’s all fucked up reasoning and too fucking late!!

As to how he feels about her now, there’s no point in asking. He’s only going to say what he thinks I want to hear and he has that “altered memory” to suit himself too. I can only go by what I have deduced over time. He was definitely fishing when he sent her the first email – he used his business address rather than his personal and later gave me that crap about 9/11 as the reason for “forgetting” to tell me. So he knew where it could go if she was willing, guess it was deliberate and calculated. And I reckon he knew she was still in love with him, as he was with her. Now? I don’t know and I don’t think I care too much. And that’s because I know it could all happen again, even if we are all now in our 50’s. And next time I wouldn’t ask him to stay.

Have a good weekend everyone.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:07 AM, August 1st (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hey UK...
So now he wants to wear a ring, wants me to wear a ring and all the jewellery he has bought me,
Go ebay it!
Then tell him... all the jewelry means nothing to me.. and I want to focus on new memories... maybe he'll do something good?

Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
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