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User Topic: Long Term Affair Thread XV
lostmyway57
♀ Member
Member # 22842
Default  Posted: 3:54 PM, July 22nd (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thank you lostheart.


Me:BS 50
Him WS 52
married 30+ years
4 kids, 5 grkids

Isaiah 41:10


Posts: 112 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: in the wilderness
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 4:25 PM, July 22nd (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think its imperative that WSs need to internalise the rules for themselves, not because its been dictated by the R contract. They must WANT it with evry fibre of their being because its the right thing, the ONLY thing to do. They should work on this actively, all the time. Like how a teetotaller can no more go to a bar or even eat a choc with alcohol in it, they should set up their own rules which they enforce irrespective of who's watching/listening.

For someone like my H who has lived his whole adult life duplicitously, I can appreciate how difficult it must to live "clean".
But boy, what a blessing to have been given this chance (again!)to be a part of this amazing family.

lh2: i say ditto

lostmyway: there really isn't a whole lot of time diff between 24 months and 18 months....if u feel like this forum will help you...post away, we are all here for you......the menand women who carry on with a lta are in a breed all of themselves i think.....and if not caught they would all still be involved with op's.....

janis:

"No, we have never been to MC (he doesn't want to go) and I have never been to IC---although considering it to get things off my chest if nothing else"

i think you should make this a point on your to do list.....and you can tell him that he doesn't have a choice if he wants to r...but make sure you mean it if you choose to go the route...

[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 4:27 PM, July 22nd (Wednesday)]


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
feelingdead
♀ Member
Member # 23591
Default  Posted: 6:25 PM, July 22nd (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just wanted to introduce myself...We are R'ing and things are going well but to say my FWH's A was an LTA is kind of an understatement (at least to me). It was an EA (only one contact) but it lasted for 20 of the 23 years of our marriage and was with his high school GF, so....

Our R is going great but I'm still working through the whole - what was real, what was a lie with our marriage? I know there were good times (I have three beautiful children to show for that) but there are so many memories that have to be rethought. I'm assuming this gets better.

There was also a brief PA (no intercourse but other stuff) so I guess it's fair to say he cheated on both his EA and me. Really helps the ol' self esteem.

Nothing really to share. Like I said before, just wanted to introduce myself and have enjoyed the posts so far (still working through them).


Married 23 years
Three teenagers
Dday1 4/11/09 (two for one, one PA, one EA, two OW, then found out about three more plus MULTIPLE boundary issues)
Dday2 3/27/10 (two more!)
Dday 3 3/21/10 (one more PA)

Posts: 204 | Registered: Apr 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 8:24 PM, July 22nd (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hello feeling dead, welcome to si and welcome to our little corner of si. this is a safe place to be, please read the healing library if you didn't already do so.

you are still really new, and there is a possibility that you do not have your whole story yet, we are here for all of it...

to say that what you have learned so far is overwhelming is an understatement, been there, still there.....

welcome and sorry that your here.


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
hearbroken
Member
Member # 8317
Default  Posted: 11:02 PM, July 22nd (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome to all the newbies- a lot more here and I am so very sorry to each of you that you are. Each story is different, but there are many common threads to LTAs and how the BS feels and what is necessary for healing and recovery.

Miracle: You have been so helpful and responsive to the TRIBE. Thanks for being you. I actually give you so much credit for finding your peace and being willing to stick it through a few more years for your children. I may end up like you if I end up having a third dday- I actually can see myself living with H and emotionally divorcing him kind of like you are doing. No marital relationship but living as a family for the sake of the kids.


((((LH2))))

Yes, I think its imperative that WSs need to internalise the rules for themselves, not because its been dictated by the R contract. They must WANT it with evry fibre of their being because its the right thing, the ONLY thing to do. They should work on this actively, all the time. Like how a teetotaller can no more go to a bar or even eat a choc with alcohol in it, they should set up their own rules which they enforce irrespective of who's watching/listening.

This is exactly what I am wrestling with and now I am going to take it to my IC! This is imperative for me since my H relapsed and crossed those boundaries for a second time after being "good" for years. Yet I struggle with having to *tell* him what the boundaries should be-and I can't believe he missed this entirely during our R after dday 1. And I am exploring whether I am co-dependent and if so I need to back off entirely about "fixing" him, yet at the same time need healthy boundaries for ME i.e. I will not accept you emailing any female friends that are not friends of hte marriage. It's like a circular process- I need him to do X, but he has yet to learn X so do I sit back and watch him fail?

hmmmm......My IC doesn't know what she's in for this week during my appointment

BT: You always have such wise and insightful posts- I admit I was waiting to see if you had any thoughts on the whole "telling WS" versus "WS figuring out on their own" the boundaries and steps for R. And I went back and re-read the posts of advice I got here after dday2, and I am just now able to absorb it almost 3 months later. I think it was too fresh and raw after dday2, but I'm coming back to reality and trying to work on my own issues right now rather than focusing on "the marriage"- I did that for too long and got hit with another dday. I need to address my own issues (including probably working the 12 steps for a problem I have)now so that I will be strong enough to cut/detach from H if he does this yet again. As one of the SIers said, "no more last chances".... He knows it, too.

HB


Dday1 8/05 (LTA)
Dday2 4/09 (online EA 2 weeks then confessed)
Dday 3 8/10 ("full disclosure" of more infidelity prior to 2009)

Posts: 869 | Registered: Sep 2005
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 8:39 AM, July 23rd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey feelingdead
what was real, what was a lie with our marriage?
Yes, It was real... It's just you lived in just one single part of his life where he lived two lives, a duel life... Some people just can live a life of lies... he cheated himself out of something he will never know... He will never know what it feels like to live a life of single integrity... maybe he can get a hint of that since he was caught... only time can tell.

Anybody been to Retrouvaille?
What should I expect?

[This message edited by trynhard at 9:00 AM, July 23rd (Thursday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 9:28 AM, July 23rd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I told him today what still strikes a chord of fear in my heart, is the fact that i still dont have an explanation of why he did what he did; thus how am I to know that it wont happen again.
He quit IC twice as he felt it wasnt going anywhere. However, it is my opinion that he quit because he didnt want to do that deeper searching, that harder work on himself. He didnt see the need to know the whys, for him it was enough that he wouldnt do that again.

LH - I can relate to everything you posted but this piece really strikes a chord with me. The other day my sister told me she was watching a program on our SC governor who just got caught with the Argentinian woman. They asked him the main reasons why he did what he did. Two of the reasons he gave were entitlement and ego. I can't speak for your H but my H admitted to me that he felt "entitled" and I would have to think that most, if not all of our S's, did this for their ego, in other words, IMO, because their self-esteem is so damaged they used the A to boost their damaged egos. In my H's case, it was also the ease or convenience and availability. She was right there every day, willing and anxious to please him whenever and however he wanted it.
I think the entitlement piece speaks to a morally bankrupt character and it would take years of IC'ing and personal determination to change a deep-rooted character flaw such as this IMHO. After all, how can any person with even the slightest twinge of conscience feel so entitled that they can spend years living a secret life with little or no concern of the effects on those they are supposed to love and protect. I love my H but when I think of how easily he led this secret life, how he came home and showed no signs of anything being amiss in our M, how he made decisions like going off on a business trip with the OW weeks before our DD was to be married, or how he included her in our daily life, or had me shop for her and her family, how he brought her into our home, never showing any signs of discomfort or guilt or even the slightest hint of acknowledging the cruelty of such behavior, well quite frankly it scares the hell out of me and sickens me all at the same time. So I can relate to your fears because unless our S's are willing to and courageous enough to do "that deeper searching" into the whys and hows of their LTA's, I think we would be unwise to let down our guard. I guess for me, I have chosen to accept this sad truth and live my M knowing that I cannot and will not allow myself to put my absolute faith into him ever again. Not everyone can live this way, but maybe at this stage in my life, I know that should it happen again, I am prepared to walk away. For some odd reason, this gives me peace. For myself, I have accepted that I can't know that it might never happen again and I am somehow comforted by this acceptance. Does this make sense? It's like so many on here say, we cannot force change in these men/women. They have to want to do the work. We can hope for change, we can acknowledge the changes we do see and get some reassurances, but we can't live inside their heads or their hearts and so again, IMHO, we can never be sure. I have chosen to accept this and am trying to move forward in my M. Some days are better than others. Maybe the question each of us who feels this way needs to ask ourselves is whether or not we are willing or able to live with such uncertainty. (((LH)))
Sorry for the negativity but my H and I just had this conversation yesterday and this is the direction it took.

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 9:36 AM, July 23rd (Thursday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
Lost Heart2
♀ Member
Member # 21793
Default  Posted: 11:57 AM, July 23rd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry for the negativity but my H and I just had this conversation yesterday and this is the direction it took

(((((((FNF)))))))))

FNF,
There must be something in the air, seeing as we had that one too.
H said that when he really thinks about it, he thinks that what he did IS forgiveable; that I am choosing NOT to forgive him, hence my struggles.
Maybe he is right. Maybe I wont forgive him because for me, what he did (and he doesnt get this part - not just the LTA#2 but the WHOLE M), is just unforgiveable.
BUT
I am willing to work on the M and move forward WITH him. Not me telling him what to do. Not me policing him. I want him to be proactive WITH me.
I think I can live with that.

I am prepared to walk away. For some odd reason, this gives me peace. For myself, I have accepted that I can't know that it might never happen again and I am somehow comforted by this acceptance. Does this make sense?

Yes it does. For you will know without any shadow of doubt that you gave H and this M every shot - and he blew it.

***
HB,

It's like a circular process- I need him to do X, but he has yet to learn X so do I sit back and watch him fail?

I hope this doesnt come out harsh, but this sounds a little condescending, you dont think?
Your H KNOWS what he can and should not do; he KNOWS your boundaries and about building a fence around the M etc. He may not have internalised it but he knows it.
So I dont think its a matter of watching him fail. I think its a case of letting him take ownership of his issues and his role in R and in the M; ownership of the man he wants to be.

I struggled with letting H go; of cutting the leash and I admit I still get a little panicky, esp when i am triggery. But its a HUGE relief. He gets to choose the path to becoming the man he wants to be. He gets to choose his role in our M.I am just too darned exhausted telling him what and how and when to do things. I want him to own his stuff. Its a big gamble, esp for little control freak like me.

You know, previously I saw my H as being a little naive, a little too immature and vulnerable to handle stuff, so I took on so much more than I should have, Then I find out that the man can actually handle alot, heck look at what he did with such a straight face and steady hand.

I ahve directed him to both his ICs, and the MC, which he quit. I have showed him books and articles which he never read. I shared other experiences from here but he let it fly over. There is nothing else I can do FOR him. Now whilst I am willing to work with him, I want that to come from him. I tried last a few months ago when i asked him to attend the Imago weekend with me and he declined. He knows I am unhappy with the M and he knows my reasons. He knows too that I am actively working on myself, and actually am feeling pretty good about me.

I found that OW picture yesterday morning whilst looking at the childrens baby photos. Imagine for so long I wondered what she looked like and she was here all the time - laugh on me.
Yet, I am a little awed by the timing.
If I had found this some time ago, I would have been devastated. I would have beaten myself up with the way she looks, seeing her in a better light. However now, I looked at her and thought, "What an ugly bitch.". Inside and outside. I was upset that he thought that she was my equal. Last night I actually smacked him and screeched, "You thought I belonged in the same category as that? You think I am that fucking ugly? You threw us over for that! We know she has a shitty personality, is mediocre in bed and she looks like that!"
I guess in a perverse way, I am kind of insulted. She looks, honestly, like a cheap whore.
I feel sick.

Thanks for letting me get this out. H told me this morning that I was handling this very well, not like how I would have if this happened a year or so before.
I guess I am, but theres a small part of me inside that is just so cold and sad. I wont tell him of course. What would be the point? I think his ability to empathise is stretched to the limit.


LTA BS

Dday#1 02.06.06
Dday#2 28.11.06


Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.


Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: London, UK
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 12:09 PM, July 23rd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((((hb))))))
((((((fnf))))))
((((((lh2))))))

i have no words today, lots of hugs and love coming your way.

tryn: never been to retrovaille, nothing there either.

sorry everyone is in so much pain today...

as always

((((((tribe))))))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, July 23rd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LH..
OW picture yesterday morning whilst looking at the childrens baby photos
I hope you pitched that picture.

For me, the OM was a part of our lives for 9 years... We couples went out together on several occasions, company parties, our kids events, other events... I had video, pictures... This guy would just drop by our house to say hello... drunk too! Even invited my wife's father over when the inlaws were in town to meet his father, both war vets.... To think someone could keep a straight face during all that?? OM's best friend always acted funny around me, he always wanted to get as far away from me.. every time. I always wondered why he didn't like me?? lol.. now it all makes sense... A few months ago, I was watching one of the videos taken by the OMW at my son's graduation party, after looking at again knowing what I know today, W acted very "funny"... no wonder you get that "gut" feel... it comes from that crap.

I erased and tossed every picture and video during my angry phase...

Here is something.. Some internet stuff still connects the two.. I want to call his office and tell them please remove it... This is a quote... His son is handicaped... "This little boy has been anextraordinary blessing in making my family stronger, more cohesive and hopefully better people," says, OM who recently celebrated 25 years of marriage with his wife, OMW" (Family man.. huh? What a crock of bs... He's had A after A... His 1st A ended that ladies M in D!) Here what my wife said, "He's very family-oriented so it allows us to be,"she notes. "He never, ever squawks about us leaving a little early to see a kid's ballgame or a school play because he does. It's important to him,and he lets it be important to us, too."... Funny though, She was F'ing him on Saturday, I was coaching the kids! He goes on to say..."Success is something we have to find evey day, and if we fail to do that, then we didn't live that day to its fulfillment." Good greif...

I almost killed that family man! 7 months living with that pain... lol... I think now what would the headlines read... Crime of passion? Domestic dispute? .... anyway, I am so happy I'm at peace not wanting to do that any more... I kinda think if I am so at peace with that, maybe I will be a peace staying in my M.

What do you think about this? I often think about calling OMW. Just to see how she is doing... let her know I feel her pain... maybe see if she wants to compare notes. My wife told me about the A's he even had on my W. A within an A? last Fall, OMW and I both got anonymous letters, that I'm pretty sure came from another girl in the office that OM had f'd too... and fired... at my wife's wishes... They settled on cash or something but that woman's husband was gay, open M and she an atheist... You cannot make this stuff up... W was in the middle of the Antichrist! This photo was my Interpretation of that... http://www.flickr.com/photos/39426400@N08/3716164461/in/photostream/

How in the world could you, or would you want that life? It is so beyond me... It was just a duel life my wife was living... Oh well, more good stories could be told...

Right now... just living day by day. I do feel my wife seems to be coming to peace with only living only "one" life right now. It's gotta feel good, yes?

[This message edited by trynhard at 1:56 PM, July 23rd (Thursday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 6:31 PM, July 23rd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

H said that when he really thinks about it, he thinks that what he did IS forgiveable; that I am choosing NOT to forgive him, hence my struggles.
Maybe he is right. Maybe I wont forgive him because for me, what he did (and he doesnt get this part - not just the LTA#2 but the WHOLE M), is just unforgiveable.
BUT I am willing to work on the M and move forward WITH him.

LH - I know I've said this to you before but I am sensing that he is trying yet again to put you on the defensive here. His entire argument is so off kilter. Just stating that he thinks what he did is forgiveable is so outrageous and shows a lack of understanding of the depth of his betrayal or another attempt at manipulation on his part. Forgiveness, this is something that is no easy thing to offer when first we become aware of how badly we have been treated but on top of that, to continue in unacceptable behavior, to not acknowledge how severe the betrayal was and then to place the onus on the victim, well even if you had been moving toward forgiveness, I think his statement, attitude and behavior must have set you back quite a bit.
One other thing that is interesting is that you are admitting you are willing to work on the M and move forward to him. What value has he placed on this? To me, this is the most important gift you can offer at this time to someone who has brought such pain into your life. Forgiveness, IMO, is a process and something that can be earned over time. I would tell him to focus on the gift that he is being given in the present and be grateful and show you his appreciation and regret for the pain he has caused and that if he is good, if he is very good, perhaps you will come to that place of forgiveness that he seems so eager to gain.
It's like a circular process- I need him to do X, but he has yet to learn X so do I sit back and watch him fail?

HB - I read this and I hope it's ok to say but my first immediate thought was that no, you do not sit back and watch him fail. You sit back and watch him show you who he really is and how sincere he is about making the changes necessary to regain your love, respect and trust.
It took me a very long time to stop trying to monitor, control and even berate my H so that he would do what I needed to survive this mess and then one day, I finally did realize and felt it deep in my gut what is told to us so often here, that we cannot ever control another person. We can't watch them every minute. We can let them know what our boundaries are but we can't make them respect those boundaries. They have to want the M badly enough. Their actions will show us what it is they really want.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 6:52 PM, July 23rd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Their actions will show us what it is they really want

this statement is everything!....actions speak louder then words!!!!!

and so does inaction!!!!!

although for me those statements are exactly why i made my decision.....it only enforces it in my mind.....

i am so not the type to live in a state of limbo, i always need a goal, a direction something tangible.....i spent 22 years waiting for him to do the right thing....those days are so way over....now i do the right thing for myself and my beautiful children...

i was having a bit of a bad day, puzzle pieces are falling together, and the pieces that i may have put together will rock my world to say the least....nothing i want to share, especially since pfm reads what i post everyday.....anyways i was feeling quite sad until i read a post in another forum about someone losing a child today....nothing like the death of a child to put one in perspective....my old mantra cam e back to me in a flash, i have 3 healthy children....i have 3 healthy children.....and thats everything for me.....my peace of mind in coming back to me......

like scarlett....tommorrow is another day i'll think about it then...or should i be rhett...frankly my dear i don't give a damn

oh, i know....i'll be both


thank you tribe for being my favorite place to ramble, rant, vent and just type it out.......

damn i feel so much bette then i did at the beginning of this post....

i wonder if the 1/2 of xanax helped it along too

p.s. hb thank you for your kind words....it was a great day for me to read (hear) them


as always

(((((tribe)))))

hey we haven't heard from ukgirl....i hope that means she's having a good time.....


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 7:53 PM, July 23rd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

or should i be rhett...frankly my dear i don't give a damn

Miracle - I read this and thought maybe you'd appreciate a little country.
Here's a song for those days when we really "don't give a damn" anymore.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFG9dwolo3Q


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 8:44 PM, July 23rd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess for me, I have chosen to accept this sad truth and live my M knowing that I cannot and will not allow myself to put my absolute faith into him ever again. Not everyone can live this way, but maybe at this stage in my life, I know that should it happen again, I am prepared to walk away. For some odd reason, this gives me peace.

Once again FNF, you have echoed my thoughts and feelings.

Wishing everyone some peace today.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
Lost Heart2
♀ Member
Member # 21793
Default  Posted: 9:36 AM, July 24th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just stating that he thinks what he did is forgiveable is so outrageous and shows a lack of understanding of the depth of his betrayal or another attempt at manipulation on his part

Fnf, my H believes very strongly that I have exaggerated how badly he treated me/children. He believes that I have magnified his "badness" and my "goodness". He believes that apart from LTA#2, he wasnt all that bad. He will forever deny the impact LTA#1 had on us (this is the one that started before our M), as he thinks that it really had nothing much to do with us/me; that since they were all just talk and never went into a PA, that it really wasnt all that bad; that since its been over for so long (he said that came to a natural death in 2003 but they still kept in contact till dday), he is long over it/her, besides it wasnt "like that". "Like that" meaning like LTA#2 where he fell in lurve and wanted to M her.
Just last night, inbetween telling me how sorry he was for what he did, he re-iterated these points.

And I feel just so sad that after 2.5 years, he is still singing those same lines.
He also told me that if I cant forgive him, that we should end this M, as he doesnt want to spend the rest of his life like this and he is sure that I wouldnt either.

Sometimes the stupidity that comes out of that man just fills me with a profound sadness.

I would tell him to focus on the gift that he is being given in the present and be grateful and show you his appreciation and regret for the pain he has caused and that if he is good, if he is very good, perhaps you will come to that place of forgiveness that he seems so eager to gain

I did, Fnf.

***
Fnf, how are you doing after your talk with H?

***

((((((Miracle)))))

I am sorry you cant post here as its not a haven for you. If you ever need an ear (eye!), just pm me.

***

Trynhard,

What do you think about this? I often think about calling OMW. Just to see how she is doing

Bad idea.
I think that, at this stage, you should focus your energy rather on your own healing. Do not keep unnecessary people in your M. Both you and W should focus on the 2 of you, on rebuilding the fences around your M and keeping others out. You sound like a nice person, so i appreciate your compassion, but Tryn, save your niceness for you.
All the best.


****
Welcome Feelingdead.
I look forward to getting to know you. I love reading too!
Are you still able to read? along with eating and sleep, my passion for books disappeared for quite a while after dday (librarian thought I moved house! ).
If you have, dont worry too much - it will all come back.


LTA BS

Dday#1 02.06.06
Dday#2 28.11.06


Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.


Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: London, UK
leapyearbaby
♀ Member
Member # 24902
Default  Posted: 10:39 AM, July 24th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Janis:

Cards? I can't bring myself to even think about that...
I have been fortunate in that none of my ows are local...all hundreds, if not thousands of miles away. I can't quite believe he hasn't done something locally, but it is a small town and since he is in a position of authority, I think someone would tell me...plus here his job is the ow. I did email the ons because she needed to know about the herpes and I didn't trust him to tell her. She was embarrassed and promised never to respond to his emails again. I now check, so unless he has gotten better about deleting stuff immediately, they are not in touch. I also had long emails and a couple phone calls with the EC lta. I never bothered to contact the waste of good oxygen WC lta. She could take a long walk off a short pier for all I care.

Trynhard....having spent some with people who live in polyamory, I can tell you it can be done, but is sooo much more work when there are more than 2 people involved. Look at us all here that are having trouble in relationships that have only 2 "aware" people (to some extent all of are living with polyamory...we just didn't know it). But your instincts are right...to try an open marriage when your marriage is already troubled is just asking for even more trouble. I have read some of your posts, but don't remember your details, if your wife is anywhere menopause, that certainly can influence her ability to respond to you. I certainly had a couple of years of "OK, but please don't wake me and turn out the lights afterward". My h took that as this is the way life was going to be and used it to further entitle his already ongoing A. And when I started feeling interest again, he wasn't...at least in me.

And I have a question for all of you. I realize every situation is different and everyone responds differently, but am I too impatient? Is 13 months enough? I do see changes, but they just are not fast enough for me. I tend to be a very impatient, let's get on with it person and I wanted this show on the road months ago. I think he should be working at the speed I want, not at the speed he wants, but is that realistic on my part? I am frustrated enough that I have set a deadline as of Labor Day...if he hasn't made considerably more progress I am filing for D in Sept.
We are living apart and have been for almost a year, I stopped mc and ic in May because it seemed to be going over and over the same territory with no resolution, and without even really dealing with the initial problem. We then and still now are dealing with how he is responding to the situation, which would be slowly, reluctantly, foot-dragging, sometimes even grudgingly. He is clearly not giving it his all. He is what I call a smoozer and I think he is still relying on his ability to smooze me out of this...that if he just keeps nibbling away at the edges and doing what he thinks is just enough, without exposing his own ego TOO much to what he did, I will eventually give up and move back and everything will be fine. He just can't see that he is smoozing himself into D.


me BS the Big 6-0!!
him WS 56
married 28 years
together 31
DD 6/10/08
ow #1,2 lta on and off since 1995
ow 3 ons summer 2005
2 D, mine from prior marriage, but he raised them
R'ing...probably not....but then again, maybe....


Posts: 1375 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Colorado
Lost Heart2
♀ Member
Member # 21793
Default  Posted: 12:01 PM, July 24th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Leapyearbaby,
If you have been living apart for 12 of those 13 months, it must certainly be more challenging to R. How and when do you two get to be a couple? How do you attempt to pick up the pieces together?

Re his slow steps (BTDT )and my need to get things done yesterday - I had to realise that he could only work some things on my timetable (for eg. NC straightaway) whilst some things had to be worked through by himself. I dont know if that meant I shortchanged myself or was too compromising, cos here I am 2.5 years later, with a H who has made some huge strides but still sorely lacking. Maybe if I had been more strigent, he would have worked faster. Then again, that could have went drastically wrong given his PA personality, KWIM?

The general rule here if to give yourself 2 years before making any big decision. If you feel by September, that this R is just not going to way you want or had decided on, you are perfectly in the right to call it quits. I dont think there would be a soul here that would fault you.
Is your H aware of this deadline?
And from what you say, it certainly looks like your minds made up - if so, are you looking after yourself in preparation for the D?
Irrespective of you got there, a D is still devastating. I trust you have a formidable support network.
And of course, you have us.


LTA BS

Dday#1 02.06.06
Dday#2 28.11.06


Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.


Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: London, UK
hearbroken
Member
Member # 8317
Default  Posted: 12:02 PM, July 24th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


hope this doesnt come out harsh, but this sounds a little condescending, you dont think?
Your H KNOWS what he can and should not do; he KNOWS your boundaries and about building a fence around the M etc. He may not have internalised it but he knows it.
So I dont think its a matter of watching him fail. I think its a case of letting him take ownership of his issues and his role in R and in the M; ownership of the man he wants to be.

I agree with this and was not trying to sound condescending. At this point the disagreement comes as to what boundaries he should have for himself and then me figuring out what boundaries I need in this M with a history of two ddays with almost three years in between are.

So my question for FNF and LH or the rest of the tribe-what boundaries did you set for R and what are your H's setting as boundaries for themselves. I mean if YOU view things differently and think they should have higher standards for themselves what do you do? My H thinks that he can erect the boundaries and still maintain "business contacts" with women from high school. I think this spells disaster, but my IC has come down with you wise ladies and basically said I need to let him figure it out on his own as to his issues and focus on mine. Classic co-dependency stuff, I suppose, but if we just look at the FWS as being responsible for themselves does that mean we don't check up on them at all? Or you check when you feel something is wrong? And if you tell them I don't want you having any female friends isn't that you setting a boundary for them?

I guess I am terrified that H is still in denial and yes I can't make him see things, but should I sit by and be condoning things that I think can lead him back down the slippery slope? Maybe it's having had dday 2, but I feel completely out of sorts and like I don't have a good grasp anymore.

I am just starting out working the 12 steps for OA, so please keep me in your thoughts as I try to get healthy for myself and my girls. I also have given a lot of thought to what the consequences will be to FWH if boundaries are crossed with another EA/PA- need to figure out what that looks like and make sure H knows this. More than just D- I mean I want everything understood and worked out so that I don't have to figure out much in order to implement what is necessary for my emotional health. Since I gave him not one, but two chances now- this is going to be important or else he will think he can continue to treat me like this (if not conciously at a minimum on a subconcious level he must be getting that message.) I have said this is IT, but I need to be able to convey this message to H in a way that he believes it- thinking about how to do that...

Well, as I start on my own recovery for my own issues I will have less time to obsess or analyze M issues and maybe by that time H's IC and the steps he is taking will help resolve some of my fears, don't know. What I do know is that if I told my H right now that he could maintain contact "for business" (he's self-employed and gets jobs through people he knows) he would have no problem still communicating with women. He's said he will be transparent and I have full access to his email, passwords, etc. So far for the past three months since dday 2 he's not responding to their emails, etc......which makes me more comfortable. He does this because he says the marriage comes first, but he's hoping I let up and say "OK" to him responding because eventually it may cost him his business and livelihood.

So, you see, this is where the sticking point is and where I am trying to figure out how involved I should be or not. Not easy stuff, I tell you.

Thanks guys for your continued input. I value your opinion and even any 2X4s when needed!

Miracle- I know you are not able to post openly what is going on with you, but know that i am thinking of you and sending you strength and peace.

FNF & LH- I think all of us feel what you are talking about with the feeling of uncertainty in living with our spouses after an LTA. We simply are not the same people that we were before, and while our Ms move forward I think the experience is then part of you and the way you view life. This is also how I am after losing a baby- I just can't view pregnancy (even other people's) in the same way that I did, because I know what *can* happen. No matter how much I have accepted and dealt with the grief, it so shaped me that I became a different person. I think the LTA does this to us, too.

HB


Dday1 8/05 (LTA)
Dday2 4/09 (online EA 2 weeks then confessed)
Dday 3 8/10 ("full disclosure" of more infidelity prior to 2009)

Posts: 869 | Registered: Sep 2005
kalamity
♀ Member
Member # 21802
Default  Posted: 1:32 PM, July 24th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just stating that he thinks what he did is forgiveable is so outrageous and shows a lack of understanding of the depth of his betrayal or another attempt at manipulation on his part

I tend to look at this from a little different perspective. The primary reason we are in the position we are in is that he has a self-image problem. The only way he can make a positive contribution to our relationship is if he develops a healthy self-image. How can he do that if he thinks what he has done is unforgiveable? KWIM?


When it feels like your life is falling apart, perhaps it is falling in place.

BS(me)-56
WS-59: LTA (22+ years)
MOW-54: H's old girlfriend
D-day 08/11/08 (3 days before 25th anniversary)
Working hard on R


Posts: 104 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Nebraska
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 2:14 PM, July 24th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fnf:

that song was AWESOME it was positively priceless and i've got a smile plastered on my face...

thank you

and thankyou to all of you for your kind thoughts


i am much better today.....the sich is still there but there really is no use in persuing, my marriage is over and i don't need anymore pain.....so i am letting it go, and with some prayer, work and a little luck it will stay gone from my mind.


tryn:

I often think about calling OMW. Just to see how she is doing... let her know I feel her pain

i wrestle with this one myself, but i always shoot it down, it really serves no purpose, and it will not help you on your journey, and it won't help her on hers....

i've actually debated calling the owh to start an affair.....i figure that would be some good old fashioned justice....however the person i would be hurting th emost would be ME...i don't know that man from a hole in the wall, an i will be damned first before i will ever be anyone's HOLE again!!!!! so the next penis for me will be attached to someone i am inerested in for me and only me!!!!

fnf:

For myself, I have accepted that I can't know that it might never happen again and I am somehow comforted by this acceptance. Does this make sense? It's like so many on here say, we cannot force change in these men/women. They have to want to do the work. We can hope for change

this makes perfect sense...and the only person you can change is you....

acceptance is the first step for peace within....

Maybe the question each of us who feels this way needs to ask ourselves is whether or not we are willing or able to live with such uncertainty
.

we each live with this no matter what, life is not scripted, we'd like to think so though....uncertainty is a part of life, no one can perdict what will happen from day to day, we have control only over ourselves, free will comes into play, and the freedom to make choices......will the ws's learn from their mistakes and make better choices, no one can answer that, they can only live it....and if the ws chooses to live making the bs the choice everytime then can the bs find peace. and is this even feasible.


lh2:

He gets to choose the path to becoming the man he wants to be. He gets to choose his role in our M.

is he choosing you! is he choosing to be proactive in healing you? is he choosing to be proactive in healing your marriage?

after 2.5 years, he is still singing those same lines.
He also told me that if I cant forgive him, that we should end this M, as he doesnt want to spend the rest of his life like this and he is sure that I wouldnt either.

is this his choice then?


leapyearbaby:

Is 13 months enough? I do see changes
,

only you can decide when enough is enough. forget a timetable, you have no control, you can;t change him...you can only change yourself.....what are you willing to do for your marriage, as much as the ws has the the onus of the hardest work, we have the onus of trying to be open to them, open to the changes they are and are not making

when can you say that you have done all that you can do? if you are in active reconcilliation, i believe you need to base every decision froma hindsight perspective.....years from now which decision will i regret making or not making....take the time you need to reflect on what you really want......and depending on your answer to yourself, you will find the patientce you need, and you will proably have to do this again and again....but if the end result is a happy marriage...wouldn't it be worth it?

hb:

as far as boundaries are concerned....only you can answer that question...it is in affect, what can you live with and what you cannot.....you need to set up what boundaries you need met in your marriage and make them wisely....give them to him and then stick to them.....if u don't feel like youwill stick to them then don't make them.....your ws will never take you seriously if you do not mean what you say and say what you mean....you also need to decide once and for all what you need, r u willing to settle? what r the dealbreakers for you. once you have put your dealbreakers(boundaries) in place then can you live by them?

am just starting out working the 12 steps for OA, so please keep me in your thoughts as I try to get healthy for myself and my girls.

Well, as I start on my own recovery for my own issues

do you feel that you can make your decisions on your choices while you are recovering?

its really o.k. to put stuff on hold to sort it out from a healthy persepctive?

making decisions in our situations is huge! we all have second guessed ourselves to death......making a decision when you feel true to who you are is more then o.k., i highly reccommend it....because when you have you in order, any decision made is usually based on your true needs, desires and wants.....

i don't knkow if i am making any sense...just my 2 cents worth!

my kids are here so i need to fly.

thanks again to all

as always

(((((tribe)))))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
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