A new affair is fresh.. WS's are fooled into thinking you are in true love... you want this person very badly cause of the lust and newness of it all.
LTA it had a chance to play out... you think maybe this is not the person I can live with... WS has a chance to compare. (Spouse is a real friend, my lover is just that.. a lover)
maybe I'm wrong?
[This message edited by trynhard at 7:14 AM, July 21st (Tuesday)]
if its lasted that long, love is usually involved.....and thats ugly.....
my wh has had many ow....the one that hurts the most is the first one, she's been there since before i had a beginning...it was she he made love to while i was just the "hole".....a place for him to play out his fantasy of "her"......
the last one he had he connected with that entire week prior to d-day....and it was intense.....very intense the newness, the proximity, the chase.....
and it still can't compare to the one he loved for 30 years.....
i guess i am in a unique position of having a wh who's had so many diversified affairs, from love with another to phone sex with a judge.....the one they love will always hurt the most......
Maybe because those are the things that I treasured so much about my relationship with WH that those are exactly the things that make me sick to my stomach thinking of him sharing with OW.
Me - BS (37)
Him - WS (36)
Together - October 1991
Married - September 2005
DDay#1 - 12/29/08
DDay #2 - 02/21/09
His heart just isn't in it -
But it still isn't easy. The hits just keep coming sometimes. I was hoping for a little vacation from the whole thing after the phone call/TM fiasco a couple of weeks ago. Not to be the case. We live in a small town (1200) and so does OW and her H. Her H still thinks that they are just good friends and we have chosen to let that be unless OW causes problems. Last night he called to tell us that her brother was found dead in his house and suggested that my H give her a call of support. We decided to jointly send a sympathy card to the family and call it good. My H is so turned off by this woman now that his normal level of compassion for anyone in this situation did not kick in. I don't think that would be the case had his A been short-term. We do have a plan for the event that she may contact him. He will ignore text messages and/or emails and if she calls, he will offer OUR condolences and, of course, tell me about any communication.
We saw them at a social event over the weekend, fortunately not in proximity forcing interaction. (We see OW's H and continue friendly interaction with him on a regular basis.) My H said he was glad we saw her - the more that happens the less he is anxious about the possibility. And it will continue to happen in our situation. Sigh.
WS-59: LTA (22+ years)
MOW-54: H's old girlfriend
D-day 08/11/08 (3 days before 25th anniversary)
Working hard on R
I know you have your reasons for not telling OWH, but I am picturing this poor man, being so compassionate to his WW, and not knowing what she really is. These people...
Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.
welcome to si, i hope you've gone to the healing library, if not do so. i read your story and i am glad that you are in ic......
i don't believe you can take any responsibility for "opening the door"....no matter what has gone on he made his own choices.....and the ons had nothing to do with an "open marriage", so that one kind of blows his theory out.....
i admit your story is unique to me, but you were still betrayed. the pain of this kind of betrayal is surreal.....
we are here.
kalamity: if i may ask,why did you opt not to tell the husband, and doesn't that knowledge make you uncomfortable?
R: he has become transparent after a year...maintains no contact, behavior says he has remorse--changed man, never have had full disclosure--doesn't want to tell me when, why, how it started (did vaguely tell me at one point they knew each other growing up and he ran into her at a airport and things started after that...well he has been flying places as long as I have known him !!)...so if this as honest as it will ever get do you keep asking or just stop ? (we are 19 months out) He has never used her name "just friends"...I do know her name...did find a paper for a funeral he went to for her mother in 2004 with her name and all her siblings printed in the inside...asked him who this was as I did not know the name (to see his reaction) he turned his back when he read it and stayed very quiet and then just said it was an old friend and he did not want the paper.
Any one have trouble buying cards ?
Spent half the day trying to find a birthday card for him that expressed my love but did not talk about the "good history" we had, etc... This happens everytime I get him a card...it is such a struggle.
Anniversary: H wants to celebrate our years together "anniversary"...last year I turned it into celebrating from last year on...I look at us as legally married but a couple living together as the vows had no meaning (any one else ?)...I asked him 3 times in the past year if he could honor the vows and he said he would do it again if things went bad again (then the next time he says he would not do it again--confused himself ?)...but then he talks about renewing our vows...(will believe it if it happens!)
My birthday this year is on a weekend when we have season tickets to a out of town football game...the problem is it is the same place where my whole birthday was totally ignored--it was my 50th--then that was when I found about all the calls he had with her all that weekend...He wants me to go that weekend and I have told him that that is the one place on earth I will never go again for my birthday...It has opened up massive triggers for me...can see everything all over again everytime I think about my birthday. How do I move past this ?
Any thoughts, suggestions on any or all the above appreciated....
doesn't want to tell me when, why, how it started
And cards are tough to buy for me too... I just write them now on a blank... Find a poem on line that fits.. google them. I try to focus on the future... My hope is that this birthday can be the birth of a new you and me.. I also write things I want now... My wants my love, are you, with opened mind, open speech and open heart... I so want us closer... (That kinda stuff) Not as easy as buying a card but I think we all have that in us.
season tickets to a out of town football game
Oh well, I have no idea if that helps or not, but my opinion.
kalamity.. "The LTA APs have surely had an opportunity to see some of the negative things about each other.." That is exactly what I'm saying. Less foggy about reality maybe.. It all hurts the same though I guess.
leapyearbaby... I thank you for that post. I said just a few weeks ago when my wife told me she just doesn't desire me sexually, do you want an open M? She just looked at me... Then asked me the same question... I said No... and she said she didn't think that would fix that problem...So here I am in limbo land with a sick W that doesn't desire me, a job I'm tired of, and trying like hell not to wallow in self pitty... but can laugh a little about it.. Peace out!
[This message edited by trynhard at 7:47 AM, July 22nd (Wednesday)]
never have had full disclosure
this is huge, without it you will probably never trust him, and in your sould you will never move forward....
i too do not have full disclosure and i am 7 months out and i am done as of 1 month ago.......i will not live in a state of limbo, for me its just not a healthy mindset.....at least now i have a decision, i can live with real, i cannot live with false.......
r u both in mc, and in ic.......
and as far as cards go, i no longer purchase any cards for him from me, i do it for my kids but NOT for me...thats done too!
Stopping in to say hello to everyone, new and old!
Alot going on here. Always is.
Sorry to see such pain. BTDT!
I saw the pic from the get together. What a great photo and how wonderful to put a face to the name.
I know that I don't stop in much. Just busy living life and enjoying every bit of every day. Life is still good and I am very thankful! FWS has been a delight to hang with this summer and I will be sad to see Fall come, but thats OK.
Going camping in the morning till Monday. We can't wait!
Wishing, hoping, and praying for each and everyone!
I am woman, hear me ROAR!!
What you accept, you teach!
Me 53, WS 54
Reconciled for life!
DD 24, DS 27
good to hear from you....you always bring a ray of sunshine.... does us good to hear from people who are genuinely happy....
have a great time
I think trouble with buying cards is universal. I tend to stick with "encouragement" cards for everything since FWH remains in the "I don't deserve good things" stage.
I, too, acknowledge that we are legally married, but only in that sense. We will not be celebrating any anniversary again, but have decided to focus on celebrating each day we share.
I can relate to the birthday issue and the triggers. The first few months after d-day I avoided anything that might trigger me. Finally, at some point I had enough of restricting my own life like that and just plunged into those triggery places. It was very difficult at first but I find that it gets more and more comfortable. But...you have to be ready.
Getting the whole story was a deal breaker for me. This was very difficult for my FWH because he didn't want to face the whole terrible truth. But he has admitted that it was good for him to get it all out and has thanked me for pushing him to do so.
LH2 & miracle:
I am in the minority in believing that our relationship is our responsibility and their relationship is their responsibility. Not only do I not feel a responsibility to tell OW's H, I feel I do not have the right to do so. I try and put myself in his position and, honestly, I would not have wanted him to tell me if our roles were reversed.
kalamity: i wasn't going to tell the husband either, i didn't want the responsibity of ruining his life and possibly his son's life too.....but i felt i had to, when ow#1 was too stupid when i called her, in both giving me info and most especially i told her she needed to be tested for std's since my wh didn't stop with just her....and the latest ow was of questionable medical history...she thought she was so smart, telling me that she is a dental hygienist and that they are tested regularly.....well dope they don't test you for all the std's....but she thought she was just fine....that withthe fact that she lied and lied and lied...so i gave her 4 days to tell her husband, and theat i would call him that friday...i figured that would at least give him the weekend to recoup his sanity....friday came and she didn't tell him, so i did...hardest phone call of my life....and he was the nicest man....so anyways i could understand not wanting to deliver that kind of hurtful info......
Sticking up for myself is getting easier and am getting much better at saying no to things I do not want to do. Also getting easier to speak my own mind--both of which were squashed many years ago...
Realize certain things are always going to trigger all of us...but to set myself up for the biggest trigger of all is one things I will not do for myself---maybe some day in the future but not any time soon
I do realize that I need to know when,how, why it all started for my peace of mind...until then I just believe there has always been 3 of us and not two in this relationship...hope one day that can be clarified but it may never be....at one point I asked him if he even remembered our vows and he said he didn't so I handed them to him on paper...he read them over, looked sad, and never said a word. When confronted with anything he usually just looks down or sad but doesnt say anything...
I take it as a proof of guilt.
No, we have never been to MC (he doesn't want to go) and I have never been to IC---although considering it to get things off my chest if nothing else....
I think it is good to have set expectations as the BS if you decide to R, but the lines get blurred as to us BS dictating the "rules" to the BS and them actually internalizing/managing themselves
I wondered often about this, HB.
How much of what he was doing post dday was him wantingto do it (as it was the right thing to do)vs him doing it cos I said so?
We had a "discussion" today where he pointed out that he has made so many changes and that he wasnt the same person he was pre-dday. True.
How did he get here? Of course some of it was due to my rules. I would like to think some of it was due to him wanting it too, maybe my rules became his rules?
I dont police him anymore. And that is actually a huge relief of my shoulders. It puts the burden of being transparent and honest right on his shoulders. Whereas before he would say,"Look at my emails, cell etc. My life is an open book." and I would go hunting; now he has to tell me whats going on with him. If he doesnt, thats his problem.
How much of the right thing to do has he internalised?
I wouldnt really know. I know he tells me that he wont ever be alone with a female again, and by chance he has to for work, it would be in an open space. I have no way of checking, so take his word. Again about inappropriate internet activity. Etc etc. All on his word.
I told him today what still strikes a chord of fear in my heart, is the fact that i still dont have an explanation of why he did what he did; thus how am I to know that it wont happen again.
He quit IC twice as he felt it wasnt going anywhere. However, it is my opinion that he quit because he didnt want to do that deeper searching, that harder work on himself. He didnt see the need to know the whys, for him it was enough that he wouldnt do that again.
Today he asked me if I was going to remind him for the rest of his life about his mistake.
You see, whilst looking at our babies pictures on a memory stick, I came across some pics of the OW2, sitting in OUR car, smiling at MY H, in the park where OUR kids played. These pics were alongside our babies pics.
And then I am reminded that I am living with a monster.
A true living monster, who sees the hell he put us through for over a decade as a mistake which I should over by now. He thinks I refer only to LTA2 and still doesnt get that for me, it was ALL of it. Every single fucking thing.
In IC on Monday, we discussed how can I move forward in this M. I have been hiding behinf the fact that what he did was against our religion, has broken the laws of society and morality too.
I realised as I was talking that actually the reason why I am still struggling was because he, putting aside religion and society etc which have all in some way could forgive him, BROKE MY RULES.
According to IC, I have to learn to live with this or leave. How do I live with this? How can I? After evrything that he has done? She asked me what would he have to do to help me live with this? Is there anything?
I dont know. I know that he's not doing it now. I know that despite being a better F and H than he has ever been, that its still not enough; that we are drifting from each other. For he thinks that just because he is not cheating anymore and that he has become involved as a F and H, that we are all OK.
But we are not. I am not. He is not.
Was it just last summer he told my DD (8)that just as she loved mum and dad, he had loved mum and gf?
Was it just 2 weeks ago when he accused me of having an A and got my DD to call me, whilst he screamed in the background for her to ask me which man I was with, what his name was?
I dont know what I am trying to tell you, ibetween my verbal outburst.
Yes, I think its imperative that WSs need to internalise the rules for themselves, not because its been dictated by the R contract. They must WANT it with evry fibre of their being because its the right thing, the ONLY thing to do. They should work on this actively, all the time. Like how a teetotaller can no more go to a bar or even eat a choc with alcohol in it, they should set up their own rules which they enforce irrespective of who's watching/listening.
For someone like my H who has lived his whole adult life duplicitously, I can appreciate how difficult it must to live "clean".
But boy, what a blessing to have been given this chance (again!)to be a part of this amazing family.
Several years ago... after the 2-3 years into W's LTA, she did try and reach out, she just out of the blue said something like we have a marriage problem... It was such a shock to me? Us? I was happy at the time... Yes I worked alot.. but I always had been a great father, husband.. blah blah blah... I could not understand... we had a fight and I left for a few hours. Afterwards we both apologied and on with life. My not listen cost me maybe 5 good healthly loving years. If my wife was stronger, I would not be so unhappy today. What I am trying to say is that men don't listen like they need to...(That was a hard change for me.. just listen.) Just go on and go and my bet is he will follow at some point... You might need to asked him again... maybe a few times...
All this is called "taking care of yourself"
I wish you so much peace...
[This message edited by trynhard at 3:05 PM, July 22nd (Wednesday)]
It was decided,methinks by the powers that be, that about 24 months and over constituted a LTA.
One of the boundaries I have liad for myself post dday, is to try to be more active in my own happiness.
If I were you, i would come out straight and tell H that going to the ball game on your bday was no longer acceptable to you. You would appreciate if he would plan something else, and if he found that too challenging, you could maybe help with a few suggestions on what YOU want.
I would strongly recommend finding an IC for you. Both of mine have been lifesavers!
How are you guys doing?