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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affair Thread XV
REALLY SAD
♀ Member
Member # 23030
Default  Posted: 2:49 PM, July 14th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks UKGirl and iwantamiracle...I'm reading everything I can get my hands on. Currently half way through "From Abandoment to Healing" and always in the Healing Library...I may be "ReallySad" but I will be really well read and informed if nothing else.

UKGirl your holiday sounds wonderful - I hope it's exactly what you want and need


Truth whether good, bad or ugly can be dealt with. Hope on the other hand can be devastating!

Me - BS (37)
Him - WS (36)
Together - October 1991
Married - September 2005
DDay#1 - 12/29/08
DDay #2 - 02/21/09
His heart just isn't in it -


Posts: 162 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Canada
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 5:15 AM, July 15th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

understanding the process of self delusion
Yep that was my wife. She and I have even talked about that... she says probably yes. As time goes on, she see things much different.

Anyway, my wife says she doesn't "desire" any man right now. Sex just never pops into her mind and not ever in the mood. She "wants" to get it back with me and says once we get going, it's good. She's on AD's and the pill. Her friend suggested she get a checkup... Hormone balance... I think I'm going to see if she will go ahead and look into that and talk to her Dr. about the drugs.

Patience is a virtue I guess.

[This message edited by trynhard at 5:15 AM, July 15th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
BorrowTrouble
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Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 6:52 AM, July 15th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryn:

Why is she on ADs? Is she really depressed (iow does she meet the DSM criteria for depression) or did she feel sad and a family physician put her on them?

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:39 AM, July 15th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BorrowTrouble... Her IC recommended them because she is depressed. She has not been happy in years. And I now understand why... I can only imagine after years of secrets and lies the toll it would take. Her IC is a PhD and wrote something to her gynecology, who then just wrote the prescription. I don't know for sure about the DSM but I suppose yes. She has sleeping issues too. I always used to asked what was bothering her because that is the only time I couldn't sleep. I'm pretty sure the years of unhealthy behavior was the reason for both. She's been on sleeping pills and AD since November.

We had a good talk this morning and she admits that since our Dday, she says again that she just has not had any desire or any sexually desire on her own... She says once we get going she has enjoyed it... but many times she only has done it for me. Before Dday she says she did have desire, for me, her lover and even masturbated... but now.... nothing.

I did tell her this morning I would not be so selfish but said again I don't want to be in a marriage where my wife just doesn't desire me. I also told her just don't make love to me for me... So I'm going to stop all initiation and see what happens... Last time I half heartely tried and within a few days whamo... This time, I may go a month or more without! lol...

This morning, she also asked me to start a hobby together. Cooking maybe. I like to cook.. always grilling and chopped salads... lol... and she also said she would go to my sweet Louise faith based to MC... it's been awhile and the guys is great but maybe we should change for something different...

Retrouvaille weekend in three weeks.

any comments are always welcome and Peace be with you all.

[This message edited by trynhard at 7:45 AM, July 15th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
BorrowTrouble
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Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 9:21 AM, July 15th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok. I just have a problem with people being put on ADs cavalierly. Doesn't sound like that is the case.

BTW, sleep issues (either insomnia or hypersomnia) are one of the diagnostic criteria for depression. There are nine in total: sleep, lack of interest in things you used to care about, feelings of guilt or worthlessness, lack of energy, inability to concentrate, change in appetite, agitation or retardation, suicidal thoughts and sadness that is overwhelming and exists for all or most of every day.

Depression is such a serious mental health issue that it changes the whole notion of reconciliation IMO. To me, I would view a depressed spouse in much the same way I would view a physically incapacitated spouse and different rules would apply.

What do you think?


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
iwantamiracle
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Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:48 AM, July 15th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

bt...

i too have issues with diagnosis' that are thrown around and putting people on meds.....

on your other quesion or statement:

Depression is such a serious mental health issue that it changes the whole notion of reconciliation IMO. To me, I would view a depressed spouse in much the same way I would view a physically incapacitated spouse and different rules would apply.

i believe that depression is a serious issue, however when the depression occurs is key...

should the depression occur before an affair is started

should the deprssion occur while in the affair and the spouse doesn't know

should the depression begin when the affair is outed

i also believe that under every circumstance the ws is fully aware of their choices, and based on their state of mind choose unwisely....but still knowing, fully knowing the difference between right and wrong.....knowing that the choice of cheating is completely wrong

and as far as the rules....i believe they are the same....because getting help should be on everyones list, then being completely honest, open and full disclosure is necessary....remorse is necessary....

all these things are necessary for a happy reconcilliation...otherwise it will always be false....

the difference lies with the getting help, the depressed peron must first heal themselves before they can help heal the marriage, but the betrayed person still will need these basic needs met to be able to move forward...

and if the ws is depressed because of being found out...
i think this is just part of the ws's process....

i don't know if i am making any sense writing this all out...sometimes i have it in hy head, it makes perfect sense but trying to verbalize it is sometimes difficult...i have such a great respect for people who can truly write, really write...when they can express all that they feel and convey it the reader with what seems like ease.....

anyways i am rambling again...sorry


as always

((((((tribe)))))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 9:57 AM, July 15th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Depression is such a serious mental health issue that it changes the whole notion of reconciliation IMO. To me, I would view a depressed spouse in much the same way I would view a physically incapacitated spouse and different rules would apply.

BT... I thank you for that comment as I have never given that any thoughts. I'm going to discuss that this Friday at my IC. My wife has told me all along that she will get better when I get better. I'm not good right now, I know that. Based on your depression definition.. me too then, at least some times... maybe I should get back on them for awhile.

So... what would those different rules be for me (or a healthy person I should say) in your opinion?

[This message edited by trynhard at 10:02 AM, July 15th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
BorrowTrouble
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Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, July 15th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One of the reasons I stayed with my husband at all after d-day is that he was diagnosed fairly quickly with a serious mental health disorder. Even though he had clearly not been loyal to me, my own notions of loyalty didn't allow me to abandon someone who was mentally ill any more than I could someone who was physically ill.

My husband addressed his issues and remains in treatment for it -- almost six years later. He has made tremendous gains in addressing his stuff and is able to be a good husband.

I think mental illness -- no matter where it comes in the process -- adds a whole other dimension to reconciliation.


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 10:10 AM, July 15th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

iwantamiracle... I'm just not sure about timing...

I have no doubt you can bring this illness on yourself. You cheat... and if you have any kind of heart, believe in god, are a good person with the knowledge of values, you will get sick... it is amazing what the conscience will do to you. I would guess it is different for some people but my wife is a good person deep in her sole, I know that.

When I promise my boss, customers something and forget to deliver, something in my sole worries me until I get it done to satisfaction… and that may mean lost sleep until I do it. With that said, just think about breaking a marriage vow, to god, week after week, knowing you are betraying the one person you know loves you more than any other on this earth. You are going to get sick.

We talked about healthy living just this morning. I asked her if she has lived a healthy life for 10 months now? and she says yes...

Oh well have great day.

[This message edited by trynhard at 10:24 AM, July 15th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
BorrowTrouble
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Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 10:24 AM, July 15th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think you are right, Tryin. I don't think that everyone who gets into an affair is sick, but I think being in one makes you so -- morally, spiritually and psychologically. Stay in an affair long enough, and you doom yourself.


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
Lost Heart2
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Member # 21793
Default  Posted: 11:50 AM, July 15th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BT once told me something that has stuck in my mind,and I quote loosely:

We tend to pathologise unhappiness and disappointment in ourselves/the world, generally with a diagnosis of depression.

I had been treating my H as if he is in a depression, but the more I thought about it, the more I realised that he was actually very disappointed and angry with the poor choices he made. He looks back at his life now (at 42) and doesnt see much there to be proud of (seeing as he has been in a LTA since he was about 24 years old). No wonder he presented as being depressed!

I think (hope) he realises now that his happiness really is in his own hands, and that he alone can lift that "depressed" feeling. He has taken up gardening ( ), given up smoking, and is trying, in his own way, to be better F and H.

Tryin, your W said that she will get better when you get better. The thing is, IMO, she needs to get better so that you can get better. You WILL survive this. And you will need a healed FWW next to you, someone who has confronted and slayed her demons, someone who is willing to show that she can be a faithful, loyal and trustworthy partner. It is so darn hard moving forward when you have a spouse who is still lost in some WS fogland. I would encourage her to heal herself alongside your healing. There is no reason, IMO, why this should be mutually exclusive.

***
Hey Miracle,
How are you?

***
Ukg! He finally did it!!!

I am so so pleased for you re the upcoming holiday.
My friend, I wish you (in no particular order): good food, great sex and lively companionship; and I hope that you both come away having made some kind of re-connection (no pressure ).

Way to go Mr Ukg!!
(and about bloody time too ).

[This message edited by Lost Heart2 at 11:55 AM, July 15th (Wednesday)]


LTA BS

Dday#1 02.06.06
Dday#2 28.11.06


Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.


Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: London, UK
Lost Heart2
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Member # 21793
Default  Posted: 12:01 PM, July 15th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LostSuol,
How did the MC session go?

***
Ukg,
Happy Birthday!


LTA BS

Dday#1 02.06.06
Dday#2 28.11.06


Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.


Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: London, UK
iwantamiracle
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Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 1:54 PM, July 15th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ukg...i didnt know that it was your birthday....i wish a wish for you to be happy and stay happy!

lh2:

I think (hope) he realises now that his happiness really is in his own hands, and that he alone can lift that "depressed" feeling.

this is so true for all of them,,,we each hold our own key to happiness, not to leave it to someone else to "make" us happy but to join in our happiness...this is what i realized last week when i realized that i love my life, apart from my wh i love my life.....and i am happy with my life....my wh has become such a small part, he truly was never there...so i learned to be without....i had always wanted and wished for him to join me, but he never did...and now that he wants to i no longer want him....now at this point in our relationship i would be settling for less, i always had settled for less and didn't just realize just how much less nor the real reasons behind it.....

lh2...i am doing really well...thanks for asking....having made decisions about my life has been a really good catharsis....living in limbo is a terrible waste of time, space and life....i know what i need to do, i know what my limits are and i know what the final outcome will be.....knowledge is power and i am finally empowered in "me" my sich may not be ideal but it what i need to do for me and my kids......

tryn: think twice if u can about going back on meds.....

i am a strong believer in not taking meds if u can find an alternative that works...every once and a while its fine but to become dependant on them to me is an injustice to oneself...

of course when necessary..taking meds can not only be beneficial but life saving...i think this would need to be a case by case decision....

bt: based on those guidelines for taking ad's probably all of us on si would qualify at one point or another.....

as always

((((tribe)))))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
BorrowTrouble
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Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 4:32 PM, July 15th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UKg, I guess I missed that it was your birthday, too. I thought the trip was just to take advantage of your son being away. In any event, I hope you have a wonderful birthday.

****************
Tryin',

What would the rules be? For me they would be different, but they might not be for you. That's something I think you have to puzzle out for yourself.

For me, I would look at a depressed spouse who was actively being treated for the illness as someone who probably deserves more time, for instance, than someone who wasn't depressed or for a depressed person who wasn't actively seeking treatment. For example, with the sex thing, knowing that a diminished sex drive is a common symptom of depression, I probably would have more patience with it than I would otherwise.


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 8:51 PM, July 15th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BT...
I probably would have more patience with it than I would otherwise.
That is what I thought you were leading to.

LH2... I hear ya. I know she is trying pretty hard. I have given her reason to leave, but she stays.

iwantamiracle... I'm not going to get back on AD. I couldn't climax when I was on them. But I was like the energizer bunny on and on and on

I do have a funny story... If it is inappropriate, I will take it off since I'm talking to women here... OK I'm AD's...So we are making love (I initiated so now I know it was called duty sex after reading no sex thread)and we are going along so my wife fakes it! Now I thought is was real but since I'm on AD making me the energizer bunny... I kept going.... and then she really did!... WTF? At least I can laugh about it.

Our guy MC says, some people are ok with "duty sex"... But I'm sure I don't want that. That is what I've been getting for the past 2-3 years my wife told me.

Anyway, she also says she wants so bad to get that feeling back for me... So I'll hang my hat on that for a while longer...

[This message edited by trynhard at 9:10 PM, July 15th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
iwantamiracle
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Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:45 PM, July 15th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Anyway, she also says she wants so bad to get that feeling back for me

tryn...this is key for you, she really wants it, and she wants it for you....

i do not blame you for not wanting duty sex....sex should be an amazing experience for both people and for each other and only each other......everyone should want that and have it.....

as for your story....i actually thought it was ironically cool...and finding humor is ALWAYS GOOD....no matter the subject


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
UKgirl
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Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 3:50 AM, July 16th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Looks like it's been busy in here. I've no time to read as we are away now until 27th. Thank you for your b'day wishes, I had a lovely day and FWH did his very best to make sure I did.

Taking you with me - just in case!

(((((Tribe)))))


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 12:14 PM, July 16th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LOL... iwantamiracle... I was in Vermillion, Ohio last night and took this pic. For some reason it reminded me of you? You might have to quickly pause it... and see show info too.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/39426400@N08/show/

Peace be with you...


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 7:26 PM, July 16th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tryn:


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
lostsuol
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Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 8:17 AM, July 17th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just wanted to see what's happening with the tribe... {{{LTA}}}

I'm going to spend the day with DD and grandson so won't be online. Have a good weekend all.

IC update: FWH went to see my IC (at her request before my next apptmt). He seems to have learned a lot about my reactions to his A from her. My next apptmt is Monday morning. Not sure what to expect but cautiously optimistic.


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
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