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User Topic: Long Term Affair Thread XV
Lost Heart2
♀ Member
Member # 21793
Default  Posted: 12:20 PM, June 16th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fnf,
Maybe he was trying to goad you into admitting that this guy is still making moves on you. Any chance of that???

I doubt it. He knows how upset I was about that incident.

Don't you wonder sometimes just how different married life would be with someone who loved the same things you did? I often do. I wonder how it is we've made it this far, really, even before the A

I wanted to marry a Robert Ulrich's Spencer for Hire kind of character...you know the quiet, intelligent, funny, loyal stable man who you know you would always be safe with. And who read books!(H hates reading).
Our old MC told us she couldnt fathom how we stayed together so long and that we must have great "stickability", translated does that mean endurance level or just stubborness or stupidity?

Fnf,
Would you H agree to be assessed for ADHD? Maybe something for him to think about whilst you are here...

***
Brooke,
Re forgiveness: wouldnt it depend on what forgiveness meant to you?
Miracle has listed what it would mean to her but it could mean something different to you, from what you are saying. Could mean that you are saying that if you forgave him, then that would mean that what he did was ok?
I doubt anyone here would ever be able to say that about their Ws's LTA, so maybe thats not what forgiveness is about...

***
HB,
Maybe next time they do mail, H responds with both your names.
Enjoy your break!

***
LostSuol,
Does he need to stay in contact with these colleagues? Can he not just block them if he doesnt want to go the route of "This email is offensive to me. Please dont send me anymore like this."?
I just dont see the point of staying in contact with people who bring disharmony into a M which is already under so much of stress?(of course family is another matter!) Its these little things that erode slowly at what we are trying to rebuild.

***

he'll even try to deny that he said something. I swear there are times when I think of running a tape recorder 24/7 just to prove to him has nasty his remarks can be

Have you been listening in our house?
I will admit though that H has improved in this aspect but sometimes he says stuff and then denies it so well after, it would make you question your self. I used to do this ALL the time before but now, as long as I know what happened, I am usually prepared to let it go..I just cant be bothered to get into an argument about it..which sounds very conflict avoidant of me, I know!


LTA BS

Dday#1 02.06.06
Dday#2 28.11.06


Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.


Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: London, UK
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 12:37 PM, June 16th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

he'll even try to deny that he said something. I swear there are times when I think of running a tape recorder 24/7 just to prove to him has nasty his remarks can be

BTDT but no more. So, I guess that means that BTs H and mine show that the behavior CAN change. Obviously, they need to want to change and work at it.

Another annoying habit he used to have: he used to walk out of the room when I was talking to him! If I called him on it he would say "I can hear you in here". First, I don't fucking CARE if you can hear me in there it is incredibly disrespectful. Secondly, I highly doubt you CAN hear me in there because 99 times out of 100 you will later tell me that "I never told you about that". Suffice it to say he can now see how rude that behavior was. Guess who is the QUEEN of it - his mom!

I think what we are honing in on between FNF, LH2, LS and UKG is that each of these actions: provoking us, ommitting truths, withholding information, inappriate emails with "colleagues" of the opposite sex, whatever, is a form of P/A behavior. This behavior is very, very hard to change and they have to acknowledge it within themselves and work to change it.


ETA: UKG, I think Brooke might be onto something with the lost poet analogy.

[This message edited by hurtshirley at 12:38 PM, June 16th (Tuesday)]


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
brooke4
♀ Member
Member # 13581
Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, June 16th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


he'll even try to deny that he said something. I swear there are times when I think of running a tape recorder 24/7 just to prove to him has nasty his remarks can be


Add me to the list. My H used to do that too but doesn't any more. Funnily enough, about a year ago I witnessed his mother do the exact same thing. She said something, when I disagreed she denied saying it, saying I had "heard what I wanted to." I told her that no, I'd heard what she'd said, verbatim. There were three other people in the room and she still denied it.

There was a second incident in which she sent my H a letter telling him to do something for a family member which he was already doing. When he told her that he was already doing it and was hurt that she had implied he wouldn't, she denied ever having said it even though it was written in her own handwriting in black and white- said he'd misunderstood.

My H's IC has said that he thinks that kind of gaslighting--because that's essentially what it is--is an old pattern that my H learned to engage in with his mother. Interestingly, so is throwing out provocative comments designed to incite and then refusing to engage.

It takes effort but they can definitely change that.

Re: forgiveness. Yeah, I understand the textbook definitions and reasons to do it. But I just don't feel it. Like I said, I love him, I can see the changes, I respect him, am very happy in the marriage now and can see being very happy going forward, but I don't forgive it.

And, no, I don't believe it means saying what he did was ok, but maybe your right, LH, maybe I'm not sure what it does mean to me. Something interesting to think over.


Me: BS, 40, Him: WS 41
Married: 15 years
3 children
D-Day: 10/2005

Posts: 1483 | Registered: Feb 2007
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 2:12 PM, June 16th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Brooke,

I think it's Fallen who said her husband can forgive her -- the person -- but cannot forgive the actions. They really are unforgivable.

That works for me.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
Lost Heart2
♀ Member
Member # 21793
Default  Posted: 2:46 PM, June 16th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think it's Fallen who said her husband can forgive her -- the person -- but cannot forgive the actions. They really are unforgivable

THAT would work for me too...oneday.

***
H just told me that I have been pushing him away for a few weeks now and he wanted to know what was going on.
Of course he asks this as he is going up to put the kids to bed and I am here checking my work mail.

The thing is I have been distancing myself from him, and IC noticed this a while ago too. I think initially he liked it as I wasnt so in his face anymore but now its made him suspicious.

Why am I distancing myself?
Is anybody at this stage (some 2.5 years later) going through the same?
When I say distance, I mean I dont really argue anymore, dont really question anymore, I just more or less let him be. I dont talk much about myself anymore, except on a superficial everyday level. I have even given up on asking him about himself on a deeper level, so no more pushing for IC or sending him relevant articles or serving as his inhouse therapist.
When we do get into an argument or if I am triggered by something he said/did, whilst I may react to it, I do take myself out of the sitch relatively quickly now and bring myself down fairly quickly as well (if you remember me from before, you would know how difficult this was for me - I would stay in a hyperarousal state for a long time and after lashing out at H, would end up in a complete basketcase mess on the floor.very undignified and degrading.

So why am I slipping away?
Or is it that I am getting closer to something else?


LTA BS

Dday#1 02.06.06
Dday#2 28.11.06


Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.


Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: London, UK
Lost Heart2
♀ Member
Member # 21793
Default  Posted: 3:17 PM, June 16th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Me again.

I told H that he knows that June is just one hectic month for me; the dday and everything that entailed; DS's bday and deathday; our anniversary. And he replied that that is not an excuse because for me, every month is a bad month for me.

I think that was an unfair statement because I think I have been doing pretty good lately. heck, I have been f**king brilliant. Majorly stressed, yes but doing pretty darn ok. I told him this and he still maintained that every month was bad for me (projecting or what?).

I wonder if he has snuck in here to see whats going on in my head, despite promising me that this was my safe place. It seems like the kind of thing he would do. I am going to bed now before I get too scattered.
Argh.


LTA BS

Dday#1 02.06.06
Dday#2 28.11.06


Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.


Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: London, UK
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 4:31 PM, June 16th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Forgiveness. I think it means letting go of the resentment. I think miracle is right on everything forgiveness is NOT, but what it means is the person who has been betrayed or wronged or hurt can accept that the betrayer has to live with what they have done.

I can do that UNTIL I get a trigger or a nice day or a happy moment and my alter-ego (in the guise of MOW) wops me and says ďdonít be stupid, remember what he did!Ē One day, I hope to tell her to shut the fuck up and leave me alone.

And when I can stop looking for banana skins, I can move on with confidence. But until thenÖ..

HB, if I catch you before your vacation, we have couple friends and yes, women who went to school with H or knew him whenever. I would hope he sees them as friends and not potential candidates for Aís. I canít go around suspecting every female he has ever known as a possible AP. To blow them off would shrink my world even more and I do not want to be the one policing or analysing every friendship. I canít be with being on the constant alert; at some point I have to let HIM control his boundaries. I can't be doing with snooping around anymore. I have told my FWH that if I have grounds to suspect, that will be enough.

It's almost like she was a vehicle for him to indulge this side of himself rather than anything real. You on the other hand, couldn't help but being reality. And it kills me sometimes to see you beat yourself up for not being able to be that fantasy for him.
I know he's been successful in the business world but *is* he a frustrated academic or poet?

Yes. Yes. Agreed. And yes.
Which makes it difficult for me and why I say (and realised within a few months of dday) that we should live separate lives. The business of living together separately. I could find a place for me and DS4 in a pretty (but cold!) spa town north of here (couldnít afford to live here) and he could live wherever. I thought I couldnít and didnít want to live with his demons.

UKg, I just cannot get a handle on your H.
I agree with BT about your H UKgirl, it is hard to get a read on him.

Oh, god. Itís like he lives two lives. One here, in reality and one there, on paper. Or in his head. He reads people so well, itís scary. Like heís removed or something. He observes and sees through people and yet he is so fucking good at creating a veneer for himself. He is an actor. He believes in his role. So when he was with MOW, he believed his words, he listened to his own rhetoric and rationalisation and believed it. He can sell a fridge to an Eskimo. He is extremely articulate, witty, popular, an all round sportsman, a reassuring non-threatening presence for female friends, a mate with an ear and advice for male friends, people seek his advice. In business he is a ďdoor openerĒ, he isnít fazed by status or intellect, he can talk as easily to a CEO as to a tool grinder on the shop floor. Everybody likes him. And yet he said he felt he was surrounded by no friends. As if he is a friend but no one is a friend to him. He feels a fake. He did not confess the affair with MOW to anyone, that included his bf and his oldest bf. No one knew he was in contact. His oldest bf spoke to MOW when he rang WH one time, but WH was so open about being with her in a "non-affair" situation (hafuckingha) that he didnít think much of it at the time. Because WH loved me. Hafuckingha, again.

I guess Iím saying heís too deep and too complicated. Either that or heís incredibly shallow and simple and Iím looking for something that just isnít there. But I donít think so. However, he is a manipulator. I read the seduction-NLP (neuro-linguistic programming) stuff and H just does it naturally. Ie he is quietly dominant and a leader, he demonstrates an understanding of the female world (heís attuned to women), he is a bit of the little boy and so wants taking care of and he comes across as someone who is honest and truthful without being flirtatious. Women LIKE him.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 4:42 PM, June 16th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I missed a page!

Another annoying habit he used to have: he used to walk out of the room when I was talking to him!

Yep, got me there too.

This behavior is very, very hard to change and they have to acknowledge it within themselves and work to change it.

Itís like itís hardwired into them. But only they can change, we canít make them.

her husband can forgive her -- the person -- but cannot forgive the actions. They really are unforgivable.

Something to think about. I can remove the person Ė I like H. But I hate what he did.

Why am I distancing myself?

I just donít want to put myself in that position of a target for hurt again. That and I have been so frantic and immersed in this relationship for nearly three years that itís almost like lifting my head from being burrowed in his chest and breathing for myself again. Kwim?
And thinking of your anni tomorrow LostH. Big hugs. Hope it goes well.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 4:46 PM, June 16th (Tuesday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 6:15 PM, June 16th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lost,

When a P/A person's target realizes that they can't manipulate in the same way they always have, it feels like distancing. And in a sense it is. It's not being pulled in where you shouldn't be.

If you know that you are not pulling away as a manipulation tactic of your own -- IOW, you are doing what you are doing because you see it as right, then you're doing what you need to do.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 8:41 PM, June 16th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"He reads people so well, itís scary. Like heís removed or something. He observes and sees through people and yet he is so fucking good at creating a veneer for himself. He is an actor. He believes in his role. So when he was with MOW, he believed his words, he listened to his own rhetoric and rationalisation and believed it. He can sell a fridge to an Eskimo. He is extremely articulate, witty, popular, an all round sportsman, a reassuring non-threatening presence for female friends, a mate with an ear and advice for male friends, people seek his advice. In business he is a ďdoor openerĒ, he isnít fazed by status or intellect, he can talk as easily to a CEO as to a tool grinder on the shop floor. Everybody likes him. And yet he said he felt he was surrounded by no friends. As if he is a friend but no one is a friend to him. He feels a fake. He did not confess the affair with MOW to anyone, that included his bf and his oldest bf. No one knew he was in contact. His oldest bf spoke to MOW when he rang WH one time, but WH was so open about being with her in a "non-affair" situation (hafuckingha) that he didnít think much of it at the time. Because WH loved me. Hafuckingha, again.
I guess Iím saying heís too deep and too complicated. Either that or heís incredibly shallow and simple and Iím looking for something that just isnít there. But I donít think so. However, he is a manipulator. I read the seduction-NLP (neuro-linguistic programming) stuff and H just does it naturally. Ie he is quietly dominant and a leader, he demonstrates an understanding of the female world (heís attuned to women), he is a bit of the little boy and so wants taking care of and he comes across as someone who is honest and truthful without being flirtatious. Women LIKE him."


oh crap.......yes...

UKG this is/was my H to a T!


[This message edited by hurtshirley at 7:19 AM, June 17th (Wednesday)]


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 11:17 AM, June 17th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hate, hate, hate trying to buy cards. I spent I don't know how long looking for a father's day card for EO today and every one of them had some sentiment that just made me want to puke.

I have to give him something for the sake of the kids but there aren't any "How does it feel to know that you threw me and your family under the bus for these whores?" cards!


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
Lost Heart2
♀ Member
Member # 21793
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, June 17th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Tribe

Today is my 15th wedding anniversary but we have been together for 18 yrs (since I was 19). I have received good wishes from my mum and sisters and aunt and my kiddos of course. Its almost 19.30 here and H is yet to acknowledge the day (and yes he does know as I sent him a reminder sms yesterday).

I am feeling quite ambivalent about today and what it means. Actually I dont know what it means to me or H. I remember me 14 years ago so much in love and so starry eyed, eyes only on him, feeling so lucky and blessed and so so happy. Was he thinking of her on that day? Did they speak? Did she give him a hard time about going through with it? She didnt come even though they were invited. But I bet her ghost was sitting there between us the whole time.
14 years doesnt seem like alot but sheesh, it does feel a long long time.I guess thats because so much has happened in that time.

I am on a training course and today was the mock exams - I failed. Just went blank then went on to make some awful newbie mistakes. Tomorrow is the real deal and I am so anxious.

DDs are excited about it being our anniversary and are busy sorting out cards and making something for me. They want to spend the rest of the evning talking about falling in love and the wedding etc. I want them to believe in romance and true love and happily ever after and that there are wonderful faithful men out there.

***

((((shirley))))
You sound quite down, my friend. Sending you big hugs across the sea.

Re the father's day card: i am getting the kiddos to make their own with their own words in it.
There is nothing out there that wouldnt contain at least 1 lie, right?
What are you doing about presents? We are being v practical ; i asked him what he wanted, he told me and the kids and I will get them on saturday. The days of planning this weeks in advance with gifts full of thought and love and in are gone. Practical is in.

***
How is everybody else coping with father's day?


LTA BS

Dday#1 02.06.06
Dday#2 28.11.06


Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.


Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: London, UK
Lost Heart2
♀ Member
Member # 21793
Default  Posted: 2:09 PM, June 17th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If you know that you are not pulling away as a manipulation tactic of your own -- IOW, you are doing what you are doing because you see it as right, then you're doing what you need to do.

Thanks BT.
I think I am doing what I need to do for me.
Its quieter and its subtle and its way less damaging to both of us. I dont even feel like I am choking because I am letting go. But I do feel very sad and somewhat disillusioned.


LTA BS

Dday#1 02.06.06
Dday#2 28.11.06


Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.


Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: London, UK
didnthaveaclue
♀ New Member
Member # 23327
Default  Posted: 4:13 PM, June 17th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi All,
Have not been in touch since my holiday to see Wh in California. So many emotions and things have happened. The biggest is that two of my boys (21 & 19) do not want to have any contact with their father, so no card for him. The youngest (15) still wants contact so he has sent a card. WH is in Canada now for 3 months.

The problem I have is DS2 can't stand being in the same house as WH and turned on me when WH was home. This normally passive lovely boy told me he was ashamed of me and didn't want me to have any contact with his girl friend or her family. I was shocked as the only contact I have with her family is if they invite me to a school play or when he asked if they could come out with us for his birthday (twice that is it!) As for the girlfriend she comes to our house to spend the night and spend time with him. She is with us during dinner then the two of them are off. It was all brought on by WH being home for 4 weeks and DS2 couldn't cope.
I told WH that two of the boys did not want him home he was so surprised. He doesn't seem to understand how badly he has hurt his boys.
Now I know about the LTA I am suppose to move forward.
He gets so angry when I ask questions that I have asked before as I know the answers are lies.

He had been really good about no contact with OW but one day she called him and he didn't tell me. The next day I asked him if there was anything he had to tell me and he said 'Oh s**t'. I asked why didn't you just tell me. 'We were getting along so well I didn't want to ruin it'. Another case of what she doesn't know won't hurt her.

While he was here I became so angry that I called up OW and she said 'we have said it all' but I pointed out that she had called again after agreeing not to. So I arranged to meet up with her. As we were driving to meet her I asked is there anything you want to tell me and pointed out that she was going to tell me everything she could and anything that she thought might hurt me. He said 'no'. Well she told me lots he should have. (She didn't want him there for the meeting 2 against 1).

He begged her not to tell me the LTA was 13years and that they had been away together twice not just the once. Same place he took me for our 25th anniversary, different hotel same place.

My huge concern is that if I decide to stay with WH I may well lose my DS2 who has not done anything wrong. He feels that his father has lied to him for 13 years (He doesn't know it is 13 he thinks it is only 6 as 13 would kill him). WH pretended to be a family when he clearly was not in DS2 eyes.

WH has told me two things which I have found receipts which prove he has lied to me.

I fear he has lied to me for so long he can't or doesn't know what the truth is.

He will never speak/see or have anything to do with OW as she broke his code and told me everything she wasn't suppose to. She also told me if I had any more questions to feel free to call her. I told her that I could not extend the same invitation. But that I no longer wanted to shove a knife through her heart, but if she ever became involved with another married man I would track her down as I didn't want another woman or her family to be as hurt as we are.

I know this is rambiling but I miss your help and I know I can't do it on my own, I was kidding myself.

I have told only two very good girlfriends who have not even told their husbands. DS2 said that he has only told his best friend and girl friend and her parents but it is a monkey on his back and he wants to be able to tell people. I told him that he can tell whoever he wants, whatever makes him feel better. He is hurting so much. He is afraid that someone he tells will come up to me and say something and I will lose it (cry). I think I can cope and for his sake I will.

I have a question I am a litte unstable emotionally at times and can't see the bigger picture. I found a receipt for perfume which my husband did not give me. I remember the conversation WH asking me the name of my perfume (he was on a business trip at the time on his way home) I told him and he asked if I wanted some and I said no because I had just bought some at duty free the previous month. He was on a business trip and low and behold he bought a bottle of the same perfume. I asked him if he gave it to the OW and he said no I never gave her anything like that. It really bugs me I want to know if he is lying to me again. H ealso told me he asked her not to wear perfume on the days that they met. So why buy her my perfume...ok so we smell the same in case she did put some on.

He hasn't had any contact with her since April 21st when she called him. None before that since January 5th. No physical contact since August 28th 08
does it really matter? Or by contacting her does it give her power again. She didn't want me in her house as it was their special place and by breaking her word and calling she had to meet me at her house.
This long distance reconcilliation is difficult. Some days it is easier to not talk to him and pretend he is not around.

Just when I think it is getting easier wham it hits you again.

UK girl I am so sorry you are having a difficult time. You were there for me at the beginning when I was in really bad shape. Thinking about you and hoping that things get better for you soon.


Posts: 21 | Registered: Mar 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:10 PM, June 17th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lh2, hs and dhac you are all in so much pain, i wish i could hug you all and tell you that its all going to be o.k.

this whole shit just really sucks,,,,,,and so do these really stupid men, because we are really terrific women

hs....fathers day is for him as a dad, for your kids to acknowledge...in my opinion that lets you off the hook and i would think he would and should understand your need to back away

lh2....i know the anniversary is tough, just finshed up with #20, and i felt the same way....and a week ago was 23 years since our first date....and there is not a single memory that is not now jaded and have me wondering what part she had, or what she knew...etc.

dhac.....i think you need ic and most importantly your son needs it as well...get him someone who is totally objective, and if possible family counselling...mc if you feel you want to reconcile.....

dhac.....it must be so difficult dealing with your son through all of this crap....only 1 of my kids found out, i don't think she made the connection of the length of the affairs, but she knows that there were 3 of them, and she is still quite angry with her dad....that took place on mothers day....she is otherwise handling it rather well, whcich really impressed me and scares me alittle, because i wonder how much she is supressing, but she at the very least is communicating with me....she has refused counselling, and right now its been offered as a choice, but should i see that she is not handling it well, or i think she is supressing too much i will make the choice for her....better to deal with it now then much later....

as far as reconcilling with your husband that will be your choice, do not let your son influence your decision, because as angry as he is, it would be good for him to see that people make mistakes, learn from them and can find happiness......if your husband though does not exhibit true remorse, total honesty and the willingness to do whatever it takes for as long as it takes then i don't think your son will deal with it well , especially if he's not in couselling....

much ((((HUGS)))))

ukgirl....my wh counseler put to me this way ...the man wears many hats, each one with another woman was representative of a totally separate life....the ease with which he would

hang up the phone either from one of them or me and then call another one of us was just mind boggling, not even pausing for a second....

and for all of us the lies are absolutely the worst, and the fact that they lied to us forever is just unbelievable....

small update on my: on friday my wh and i are going away to self-help weekend workshop being given by debbie ford.......not looking forward to the saturday night...no workshop hours, and the place is a get back to nature place, kind of like camping, except we will be staying in a cabin without a t.v.....and to boot, we
ve had nothing but rain here and the weekend looks like even more rain.....

i am looking forward to the workshop itself though....so when i get back i will catch up with everyone...in the meantime i could use some prayers for a peaceful weekend.....

i will still be here tommorow and possibly friday morn.....checking in....

once again ((((((HUGS )))))) to all


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
didnthaveaclue
♀ New Member
Member # 23327
Default  Posted: 2:14 AM, June 18th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dear iwam,

Son has refused counselling, last week he witnessed and help in a terrible accident where a 31/2 year old was crushed by her mother's car. He was one of the first on the scene and called emergency services and helped to move the car off the little girl. She didn't make it. He saw them try and revive her and very graphic surgery trying to save her, he was offered counselling but refused. I thought that this might be the straw that broke the camels back but he is determined to deal with this himself. He spoke to a good friend (Adult) who does not know about the affair, but tried to explain the importance of talking through the accident. Son wants to tell people about his Dad and the affair so I have told him to tell whoever he wants. I can't tell people because I am ashamed, I know I didn't do it but.... and if we do reconcile it will make it very difficult for those people who know. WH is life and soul of the party and really likeable guy. He just is selfish, disorganised, procrastinator and undependable, but married for 25 years it is what I know.

I will think about counselling for myself and if I set the example maybe my son will too.

iwam I am praying that your weekend goes well and that the weather man has it wrong and the sun shines brightly for you.

lh2 it is early days for me too and I find that I do whatever I can to get through the days. I have intentionally not picked up the phone when I suspect it is WH calling (he is overseas) because I can't deal with what may come up some days. If pulling away give you a little break to heal or think things through maybe it is not a bad thing?


Posts: 21 | Registered: Mar 2009
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 8:15 AM, June 18th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi again DHaC. Looks like just me around at the moment. Welcome back and sorry things are not going as you had thought.

You say DS2 can't stand being in the same house as WH and turned on you when WH was home. Was this not the one who had such a great time with his Dad just after dday? Why would he be ashamed of you? I can understand not wanting to be around his father, but to blame you in any way? What does he say?

'We were getting along so well I didn't want to ruin it'.
Ditto. This is a common avoidance. I had MOW using her Hís phone, I gave FWH a couple of weeks and then he said ďThe call was late, and my response was as it should be. There wasnít a trace of deceit or white lie about it. I saved it to show you when it was appropriate. Not slavishly on receiving it and thereby trash a rare peaceful evening.Ē He didnít want to mention it b/c he didnít want to mention the affair. Period.

WH pretended to be a family when he clearly was not in DS2 eyes.
It is important for DS2 to realise this was not about him. Just as it was never about you. It was about a flaw in his father. When he was with OW, he was in another box. When he was home, he was there for him as OW was not part of his real life.

Contact with OW. There is only one thing to do here. Ignore her. No contact. You had a meeting with her, so let that be it for you. Any form of contact gives her credence. She is just somebody who was willing to let your H fuck her. She is and always was nobody. Treat her as such. If your H contacts her in any way, she may take it as a sign that it is not over. It is over. No contact.

I read this a few days ago about the WS and the AP and kept it as a reminder to myself:
ďThey never have an affair with someone better than the person with whom theyíre married. So Iíd suggest not lowering yourself to their level by interacting with them. Have more respect for yourself.Ē
Says it all.

And DHAC, my H would spray his shirts with deodorant before stuffing them in his bag to mask her smell. He has never answered my question as to whether or not she tripped around the hotel room or her house in his yesterdayís shirt, but I bet she did. And it wouldn't surprise me if WH bought her my perfumes from the duty free too.

Counselling. I think your son needs help. The childís death may well resurface later in life, when he has his own children for example. I thought I had ďdealtĒ with rape, only to find it came back to haunt me 6 or 7 yrs later. Even if he sees someone a few times to recognise that he has been through a trauma, what the possible impact on him is for the future and how he will deal with it. It would certainly be useful for him to work out why he is behaving and feeling as he is with regard to the infidelity too. If you are in the UK, google directory of counsellors and you will get listings for your area and short cvís of each which will allow you to choose the type you want. See a few (some give a free first session) and see who you fit best with.
**********

hang up the phone either from one of them or me and then call another one of us was just mind boggling, not even pausing for a second....

I found it astonishing when I finally went through his texts and calls (copies of 6mths before dday were sent). There were up to twenty a day and Iíd see her, me, her, her, her, me and Iíd wonder how the fuck he did it without messing up. The answer was he had to punch her number in b/c it wasnít on his memory. Shows how he had thought it through.

Donít worry about the weather at the workshop. You can concentrate on each other. Have a positive weekend and a pro-active outcome. Log in and let us know how it went when you get back.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 8:31 AM, June 18th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Donít worry about the weather at the workshop. You can concentrate on each other.

this is so NOT what we are going for....

as far as my marriage is concerned i am done, he still a liar, i remain in the marriage for my kids and only my kids, and should he fuck that up too he's OUT

dhac....you need to insist on counseling for your son, how old is he, and you're right in setting an example and going for yourself as well....i think it will do you both some good....and the fact that he's witnessed that child accident and death has got to be taking a huge toll, it would for anyone, let alone your son who is child himself....

ukgirl...i also think your wh gave her the same perfume to help in the cover up....

these men....AAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHH


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 8:51 AM, June 18th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What are you going for then, miracle? Isnít it a self-help thing, like the book? Are you going to be working together on this? What do you hope to be taking away from this workshop?
I take it you are not really looking forward to it.
********
LostH, how did your anni turn out in the end? And, btw, been thinking of you and your exams today, Iím hoping it was fine.

I think I am doing what I need to do for me.
Do you think it may be you need to pull away to get a real good look before you can get close again? Thatís how Iím feeling. This one step removed business means I am looking at him with crystal clear vision, all the illusion has been stripped away and now itís down to the man himself. And I have to ask myself if I like what I see and is the damage reparable? I have realised he was not there for me, I thought he was and he just wasnít. He was prepared to chuck it all away for the ex-gf and let me fall. I think it saddens him as much as me, but maybe itís a healthier way to live.

********

UKG this is/was my H to a T!
I guess that became a blurring of boundaries. I think, for the most part, H has been pretty good at recognising and stopping. Heís not had a lack of opportunity, thatís for sure. But I reckon some women were subconsciously aware of his KISA character and allowed themselves to be drawn in. Apart from MOW with her obvious ďooh, help me, Iím a weak and vulnerable person and Iím sooo sad, please give me some attentionĒ there was one from the 1999 reunion (who I reckon was the EA/poss PA) who was pretty broken at the time, but on the way to being healed, and a colleague who looked up to and openly admired my H back in 1992/93 who I think may have been a ONS or fling or something.

He was so good at wearing the mask for everyone that no one saw he was in ďa dark placeĒ. I suppose the person who should have known was MOW, after all she knew him when he was on ADís as a student. Although it is my opinion that he only got into that place after he started the affair with MOW. He has altered memory telling him it was before.

I canít believe I never really knew him at all. Nearly 30 years and I didnít know the man I was married to. Why did he want to hide so much from me? If he wasnít happy, why didnít he just fuck off? Rhetorical questions, just wondíring.
********
Fatherís day cards. Well, as you know, women do all this side of things. The result is that we do NOT HAVE Fatherís day in this house! My Dad (bless him) was always insistent that we did Mothering Sunday only and ignored Fatherís Day. He said my Mum worked very hard and was available to everyone 365 days a year, the least we could do was give her one day of thanks. Fatherís Day was just something made up by the card companies. So weíve never done it. Phew!

[This message edited by UKgirl at 8:58 AM, June 18th (Thursday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 11:44 AM, June 18th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lost,

Hoping you made it through the test and the anniiversary OK.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
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