Me: "WTF, I didn't tell you to get out of the car"
Sounds passive aggressive to me
My question is, do most PAs have exit A's? Someone posted something about this in another forum and I have been thinking about it ever since.
I guess it makes sense if they are passively trying to end their M. Admitting to their spouse that there is a problem, or even taking the initiative to D would be too much work for a PA.
I don't know a lot about the subject but I am pretty positive my WH is PA. He is a classic procrastinator and blameshifter. He definitely has an avoidant attachment style and is extremely conflict avoidant.
Anyway, the nature of his A has always bothered me, he admits it was an exit A. When their A started, or maybe even before it did, he told OW he was going to leave me pretty soon. On D-Day, he didn't envision any other scenario than me throwing him out of the house immediately. In fact, on D-day he knew he was caught so he had already packed a bag when I came home to confront him.
I believe he wanted me to throw him out so he could be free to be with OW.
However, I didn't, I was in shock but the first thing I did was call our MC(we had started MC about 3 weeks prior to me discovering the A) and offer R. He accepted working on R right away but it wasn't like he was begging for it, I believe it is possible he just went along with R bc he was too "weak" to stand up for himself and leave if that is what he really wanted.
I don't know if any of this makes sense, but I am wondering if they passively try to end their M by having an A, but then maybe passively go along with R when caught, even if it is not what they really want?
My question is, do most PAs have exit A's
From what I have read, my understanding is "no". That is rarely the purpose of the A for the passive aggressive. Change is extremely difficult, if not impossible, for them. And part of why they have the A is their poor self-esteem. Leaving the safety of the dysfunctional marriage would cause severe disequilibrium. I'm not saying it never happens. I'm saying I don't think from what I've read it happens much. And look...if they leave you (the likely focus of their passive aggression) their next spouse might not be as inclined to permit it. That is not what they want at all...they need that codependence.
I have also read that if you try to divorce a passive aggressive, anticipate A LOT of foot dragging...not showing for hearings (they will "forget" they had a hearing), not agreeing to previously negotiated agreements (usually this comes just prior to having to sign it) and otherwise being as obstructionist as humanly possible.
I am currently reading a book called The Angry Smile. It's a text book on passive aggression, but reads much better! It's a must read for a codependent spouse of a passive aggressive.
Edit: I have found that 180'ing works WONDERS on my PA spouse. He HATES to be ignored. I never ignored him during the A, but I am now. It's pretty funny, really.
[This message edited by Seriously??? at 5:42 PM, February 25th (Friday)]
Him: WS 49
Me: BW 44
Married 22 yrs, together 26
Two Kids 12, 18
dday #1 05/15/90 EA confirmed PA--20 yea
Has anyone tried hypnosis? I've done it for weightloss in the past and it worked well. I'm considering that for my cravings or 'longing' for love...
[This message edited by mrs. duped at 11:18 AM, February 28th (Monday)]
Mrs.duped - Once you address your codependence, you won't accept anything less than a deeply remorseful, loving, committed H. Funny thing about codependence - it never works. The relationship in whatever dysfunctional form may be intact (if that is the word), but it won't last or will be a continual source of pain and unhappiness. On the other hand, self worth, 180, and zero tolerance for crumbs, at the very least will strengthen you and build yourself esteem. And also happens to be attractive. And is also more likely to encourage healthy change in others (but remember you are not doing it for that reason).
Sorry to be preachy, but I live this to my core. I am holding firm on not R with my blame shifting WH. He either has a "Come to Jesus" moment at rock bottom and owns his shit, has deep remorse, and does the deep internal work or I am done forever. I will not help him figure himself out - I am not his mother. I am an amazing woman that deserves a grown up man. And I say it over and over until I believe it. Divorce is final in 6 weeks.
[This message edited by LisaBrandNew at 10:55 PM, March 1st (Tuesday)]
[This message edited by LisaBrandNew at 10:53 PM, March 15th (Tuesday)]
Oh my gosh. I was reading Lisa's post in wayward and had a massive insight.
For almost all of my life I have felt "controlling" choosing partners and relationships where this controlling aspect came out. My H (PA) said after his A that he thought that I wanted someone weak and controllable. I responded no, I want someone who can take care of themselves.
Anyways. I just get it finally.
I have hand picked these people. My Dad was PA and my mom was "controlling". I have chosen partners that from the start show me that they procrastinate and don't take care of themselves. I step in and try to "help" they shame me and build up a fantasy that I am so mean and controlling because they are avoiding conflict.
We are both contributing.
But anyways, my insight is that Im not some controlling maniac. I am reacting in direct and normal relation to them. Their would be nothing to "control" if they met the bare minimum of their promises or duties.
Being called controlling hurt me and made me back off- but my H still saw whatever he wanted.
It wasn't just me!!! It may sound so silly but this is a big deal to me. It really wasn't just me- I don't "like" to control people. My problem is I tend to enter into relationships with people who avoid conflict and are PA.
This feels like a huge step for me.
So now our Why for choosing PAs? No, we weren't at fault for the A, but we certainly did want to control. That is why we choose PAs and that is why they choose us. Maybe we can call control a different word - care take, rescue, manage, assist, analyze, direct, etc. There is something right off the bat at coming into contact with a PA that triggers a codependent - probably the emotional crumbs (but we say, "they NEED us. So hard to see our true motives). If we didn't get the love and safety in childhood or if it was inconsistent, our child brains believe it is a reflection of our self worth. The PA reminds us of a parent or some childhood withholding. So we try to "earn" the love or "control" it. If we are needed, if the PA needs us, they are less likely to leave us, to abandon us. If we earn their love and commitment by being indispensible, we are Ok, we have worth. Big lie to ourselves, but you can see the dynamic. So, it is a dance. When my WH offered reconciliation crumbs, I said "No Way." My codependency had broken.
I am done, not because I blame my WH solely for the codependent-PA/parent-child dynamic in the marriage, but because his response to my healthier changes was complete emotional annihilation of me. The A and the continued PA, blameshifting, etc. show that he is deeply soul sick. I can not help him. He must help himself.
[This message edited by LisaBrandNew at 11:49 PM, March 18th (Friday)]
Opened my eyes, that just like Lisa said.. we picked them for a reason, to fill one of OUR needs.
We become obsessed and they become our main focus, we get "lost" and place their self worth above ours, because we are trying to "Fix, rescue, change..etcetc.." that is why when they leave or cheat, we turn it on even higher- refusing to let go. Wanting to change and fix the relationship and we start accepting blame for things because we don't want to let go of the unhealthy part of our relationship..because as long as they remain "broken" we are having "our" need to be wanted, needed met.
That book is awesome and I highly recommend it.
I realized that in part I played a DIRECT role in helping him slide more into a PA.
I recognize now that whenever he tried to assert himself, I could not handle feeling so out of control.
For me it became a "control" mechanism, for things to be done my way and because that is what worked and his way did not make sense.
Granted he probably brought his issues, however, I think I played a very strong role in how this relationship played out. I picked him because deep down inside I felt superior to him, I knew I was smarter, financially secure, and had alot going for me. I picked him because I knew that if things didn't go my way, I could ALWAYS just walk because I never truly needed him.
I think the only thing that we end up missing is the companionship. We get used to having someone there, whether they are there emotionally to me was irrelevant. At least to me it was, we had kids and at one point, I told him that I didn't care if he said hi to me, but when it came to the kids I wanted him to show affection and tell them he loves them.
With the kids he could show affection and was loving, something he couldn't be with me but was something I need. I was willing to settle for him doing that for the kids in exchange that I go without, that was a small price to pay in my mind.
I realize now that I had emotionally shut down and detached myself from the situation a long time ago. All I wanted was for my kids to have a Dad, and under my conditions..I truly didn't care for him because if I had I wouldn't treat him with such disdain.
I cannot respect him and granted he has definitely done things that are not worthy of respect, but I know I helped create the parent-child dynamic..so why can I respect myself and yet not him?
[This message edited by LisaBrandNew at 1:44 PM, March 19th (Saturday)]
Most affairs are not exit affairs. That's why they don't leave. They don't want to. Affairs happen in the space between "I don't want to leave" and "I don't want to do the work to change it".