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User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts 3
Hope and Faith
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Member # 14757
Default  Posted: 2:36 PM, July 17th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just curious, how many here have SA spouses who had a history of some kind of abuse. WH has been trying to figure out his FOO issues and didn't get anywhere with his IC 2 years ago, but in the past 2 years more things he has told me could be considered abuse/neglect.


FBW 41
FWH 39

Committed to R?
DD#2 now...not sure


Posts: 51 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Florida
JustWow
♀ Member
Member # 19636
Default  Posted: 3:25 PM, July 17th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have told him that I will not be married to someone who has a sexual/emotional/whatever you want to call it relationship with OW. But, isn't that part of what SA is about?


No, SA is an intimacy disorder, not an excuse to be intimate with many, but rather a way to self-medicate while being intimate with no-one. Often, when an SA has a "relationship" with an OP, that OP is merely a masturbation tool for the SA, the relationship is NOT intimate, loving, emotional, other than feeding the addiction. In their distorted thinking, the SA may try to "create" a relationship to justify their behavior, but it isn' real. OP's are, quite often, simply porn with skin on.

Just curious, how many here have SA spouses who had a history of some kind of abuse.

H has an FOO history of physical abuse, emotional abuse and sexal abuse. His acting out with SA probably started around age 12, and he didn't get diagnosed or into recovery till he was almost 43.


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3557 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
whatnowaz
♀ Member
Member # 24543
Default  Posted: 3:45 PM, July 17th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

JustWow~ Yes, you hit the nail on the head! My husband has serious intimacy issues. I have always known it wasnt about trying to find someone else to love, and leave me and the kids. He is searching for something to fill some sort of void deep down inside. He was abused as a boy by his step-mom and step-grandmother. He lost his mother at a very young age. I also believe his older step sisters molested him. Unfortunately, I dont believe he is willing to discuss this with his counselor. He has basically said he has made ammends with his childhood and there is no need to bring it all up again. Im sad, Im scared, he is so adamant right now about how he has changed, and he wont do this anymore. How counseling is really helping. I think it's bullshit, but I dont know what to think either. I want so much to believe him. My heart knows otherwise though. I am out of town, but when I get back hme, Im going to find someplace for me to go and get some help. I dont think I will continue to see the same counselor. I may also demand my WH see a CSAT....but Im trying to be patient. It's hard though. I just dont think he CAN change......


ME(BS)-33
HIM(WH)SA(not officially Dx)-41
Married 8 years
together 15
D-day too many to remember
most recent 6-16-09
kids 4,12,14

They say "Love conquers all" Well, I am afraid they are WRONG!


Posts: 174 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: arizona
JustWow
♀ Member
Member # 19636
Default  Posted: 7:04 PM, July 17th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

whatnowaz:

After having gone the regular IC route, and now being with a CSAT, If I had known the difference I would have INSISTED on a CSAT. It just makes a huge, huge, difference.

Also, you can ask to meet with them and find out how open your H is being.

Check for CSATs in your area, it is so, so, so important.

-JW

[This message edited by JustWow at 11:13 PM, July 17th (Friday)]


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3557 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 8:32 PM, July 17th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My SA STBXH was also SAb as a child. Also, emotionally abused. His dad introduced him to porn at a very early age (think elementary school).

He never had a chance. It is really sad. But, now he is close to 50, and still not dealing with his issues, he is old enough now to know better and get help, but refuses. That is why he is my STBXH.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14917 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
1 day at a time
♀ New Member
Member # 24787
Default  Posted: 9:06 PM, July 17th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hope & Faith

My WH was sexually abused as a child. He began having repressed memories resurface around the same time he began his affair. He just openly admitted his abuse recently though. We are also now realizing that he has definitely participated in sexually acting out behaviors his entire life.


Posts: 29 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Philadelphia
whatnowaz
♀ Member
Member # 24543
Default  Posted: 1:34 AM, July 18th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

my WH has only shared some of the things I mentioned in my earlier post, at very vulnerable times in our marriage. He has not brought them up again, and one time I did bring it up and I seriously thought he was going to punch me. If I tried to bring up these issues, he'd play them down or most likely flat out deny he ever told me these things. So, how can he possibly work through the issues if he doesnt address them with a counselor. Also, how do I insist he sees a CSAT? He is just now ok with being in counseling...period! Ugh, why does this have to be so hard...why does this have to be MY life????


ME(BS)-33
HIM(WH)SA(not officially Dx)-41
Married 8 years
together 15
D-day too many to remember
most recent 6-16-09
kids 4,12,14

They say "Love conquers all" Well, I am afraid they are WRONG!


Posts: 174 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: arizona
whatnowaz
♀ Member
Member # 24543
Default  Posted: 1:36 AM, July 18th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

my WH has only shared some of the things I mentioned in my earlier post, at very vulnerable times in our marriage. He has not brought them up again, and one time I did bring it up and I seriously thought he was going to punch me. If I tried to bring up these issues, he'd play them down or most likely flat out deny he ever told me these things. So, how can he possibly work through the issues if he doesnt address them with a counselor. Also, how do I insist he sees a CSAT? He is just now ok with being in counseling...period! Ugh, why does this have to be so hard...why does this have to be MY life????


ME(BS)-33
HIM(WH)SA(not officially Dx)-41
Married 8 years
together 15
D-day too many to remember
most recent 6-16-09
kids 4,12,14

They say "Love conquers all" Well, I am afraid they are WRONG!


Posts: 174 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: arizona
too trusting BW
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Member # 15459
Default  Posted: 2:06 AM, July 18th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's 1:30 in the morning here. I am up, awake because my 20 yr old daughter left to get her boyfriend who was walking home after being released from jail, for his 3rd DUI. This guy has lied to her. Cheated on her. Pushed her to do things sexually she is not comfortable with. Called her stupid. Called her a baby. Kept her so wrapped up in him that she has failed 8 of 15 college classes. I could go on, but you get the picture. She is oh so codependent isn't she?

I do suspect he is SA (or on the road there) in addition to being an alcoholic.

I have been struggling so very much lately with how my children's lives are going.I feel so responsible for screwing them up. In general, They are awesome kids. No addicts (yet) not abusive, they all have jobs. MY daughter does have a hard time keeping one long term, as she gets no sleep when seeing the boyfriend. My oldest son just got married tonight and has a baby coming in January.

The fact remains, they are all showing signs of future addicts, codependent behaviors or (scary) both. Its glaringly obvious in my daughter.

I have always lived for my kids. I mean really, I have gone through hell for them. Custody issues with CPS and $20000 for court. Counselors for them for years to deal with divorce and living with their mentally ill father.

One would assume I had done a great job; given them the right tools and communication skills to rise above their situation. I really tried, thought I was doing all the right stuff. I did do the best I could with the knowledge I had at the time. I do give myself credit for that.

The thread last week about knowing what we are getting into as the spouse of an addict, that perhaps one could "manage" to just live with it, and protect our child.
No, not possible.

My children did NOT witness any of the following:

My "allowing" my XH to buy his pot, and rationed it. After about 6 hours he was an ass, so it kept the peace.
My XH becoming a complete verbally abusive creep if 24 hours or more had passed without sex. Not an exaggeration.
My XH hitting me. 4 times in our last year together. Never before in the 8 yrs prior.
XH calling me stupid, calling me a bitch, accused me of sleeping around. (no)
There were other things, but those stick out.

IN this second marriage the kids have NOT witnessed the following (not 100% positive but most likely):
My current SAH masturbating often.
SAH having webcam interactions with other women.
SAH regularly watching porn.
SAH objectifying women in public
SAH inappropriately fondling my former best friend while on camping trips with the kids.
SAH doing the same with friend in our house, or theirs.
Receiving oral sex from one of MY clients in our house during the day.
SAH misrepresenting the kids and myself in attempts to either be the martyr ("what a great stepdad to do all of that!") or the victim.

So what happened? Me.
It didn't matter that I had counselors in place. It didn't matter that they did not witness the ugly stuff going on. IN my own way, as the poster the other day, I kept them protected from that stuff.
I thought.

Its the crap underneath. That is what affects our kids, affected us. The unspoken. The modeling I did as a parent, as a wife, and as a daughter and person. The disconnect I allowed from SAH. The abuse I permitted from XH.

I thought I had beat the cycle. I had married a man soooooo different from XH.
He was different.
That wasn't enough.

I can't try to change the man,nor will it help to just insist I will find a better man next time.

Unhealthy attracts unhealthy. None of that "opposites attract" in this world!

What I have to do is make ME healthy, whole, secure, and not responsible for everyone's happiness. Damn that's hard.

Not sure why I felt like I needed to put all this out there, other than a reminder for methat it isn't what we say to our kids but what we show them. AND it's the hidden stuff that contaminates. Maybe someone else will recognize some of these things.
I figure you all know what I am feeling.

(and possibly that I needed something healthy and constructive to do rather than calling my daughter---detach with love. I did tell her no to letting him come here; told her I could not help her enable him)

This gets easier, right?


Me 39
SA-FWH 44
11yrs M
In R-maybe
3 DC from Marriage #1
1 DS together
at least 4 d-days

Posts: 1300 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Kansas
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 5:42 AM, July 18th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, too trusting, I am so sorry. That has to be excruciating. (((hugs)))

Don't take it all on yourself though; you did the best you could in a horrible situation, and apparently, the men in their lives were quite ill, and I know that has an effect. The last 2 guys I have brought into my children's lives were not good ones either, but one is my dd's father, so at least I got something good out of it.

I do worry nonstop about the effects of having psychos and addicts in their lives. I am glad my addict H is gone. Too late for the oldest dd, as she is already out of the house, and she suffered from all the abuse of psychoX. (She was cutting herself for a while).

I'm hoping she is on a better path, but she went the opposite of your dd--she won't even date! I'd love a healthy balance here!

But, I have to remind myself, that each one of us has our own path to walk in this life, and my kids included. They will have to find some things out for themselves, as much as I want to teach them everything I can, and keep them safe forever. That isn't their purpose here, they are here to learn, and some of them seems like they have harder lessons!

(((hugs))) for all of us, because this shit is hard!


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14917 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
lost_in_space
♀ Member
Member # 24302
Shocked  Posted: 9:13 AM, July 18th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I personally have been incredibly lonely during my marriage with my husband off looking at porn and having affairs. He has completely neglected me emotionally and sexually and since DDay #3 I'm not sure I even want him to fill my loneliness. I was wondering how anybody else deals with the loneliness that goes along with this without falling into an emotional affair themselves.? I know I make the decision to keep everyone at arms length but as time goes on and more of his infidelities come up it is more difficult.I tell myself that it would make me feel even worse about myself and I don't need that right now for sure.


Me: BW 38

Last DDay: 7/15/09
TT: 2/28/11
TT: 3/5/11
Dday again: 3/10/2011
All Done: Better late then never.


Posts: 3513 | Registered: Jun 2009
1Forward1Back
♀ Member
Member # 11057
Default  Posted: 9:29 AM, July 18th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Its the crap underneath. That is what affects our kids, affected us. The unspoken. The modeling I did as a parent, as a wife, and as a daughter and person. The disconnect I allowed from SAH. The abuse I permitted from XH.

Word!

When my son found out about his father's infidelity, after a few days of processing it, he told me that in reality, this revelation did not surprise him. He knew it was just a matter of time.

Although my H went to great lengths to hide his porn stash/masturbation compulsion, my little boy knew; he just knew. This boy is over a year clean from a narcotic addiction.

My sweet daughter became very promiscuous in her teens; something that surprised me when she told me this. She was the one child I felt I did not have to worry about because she seemed so secure.

Years after my other son died, I found out he had molested one of my other children. That was rough. I literally wanted to dig him up out of his grave and beat the living shit out of him. Seriously! In retrospect and in many conversations with experts, I believe this boy had Asperger's syndrome. We didn't know about these things back then, but he was so classic, according to the experts. However, it was still one more thing that haunts my SAh and this codependent mother.

My boy is newly married, and deeply involved in his church and living for his Lord.

My daughter is thriving in her marriage, although she has emotional issues that haunt her. She has a beautiful son and is looking forward to getting pregnant with her next child.

So, despite it all, the kids are doing well. But the lesson here, I guess, is that we must never think that our hidden struggles, pain, hurts and addictions are truly out of sight from our precious charges. They absorb it.


Me: 60 Yrs. (BS)
Him: 60 Yrs.(FWH- life long sex addict)
-2 ONSs followed by an A-2005/06
-cheated while we were engaged
-seems to stray every 30 years or so
D-Day-June 10, 2006
Working on own recovery. His is his!
Married: 37 yrs. Grown ch

Posts: 966 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Canada
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 12:16 PM, July 18th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

1 day at a time (and anyone who needs advice about boundaries and consequences)
I am very uncertain what my expectations should be from WH at this point in time.

Your first expectation (boundary) should be that he is to have ZERO contact of any kind with the OW.

Also you said this in response to JustWow:

I have told him that I will not be married to someone who has a sexual/emotional/whatever you want to call it relationship with OW.
This is only a good boundary and consequence if you are going to ENFORCE it. If you are just threatening him because you think it will scare him into changing his behavior it's pointless.
But, isn't that {a relationship with OW} part of what SA is about?
Are you asking if you should accept this behavior because he is SA??? The answer is NO!!!! There is NO EXCUSE for him to still have contact with the OW. Period. NO. SA or not he is not free to have relationships with women other than you. If you accept his contact with the OW because you think it's part of his SA and you should be making concessions while he seeks treatment you are way off. You should NEVER accept that kind of behavior whether he is just starting out or not. I think I covered it pretty well above.

Other boundaries that I think are reasonable in your situation:
~ Complete transparency (you need complete and full access to all phones, email accounts, computers, his mail, whatever) from him so that you can be sure of his lack of contact with OW.
~ He needs to be in therapy with a CSAT
~ He needs to be going to SA group meetings

Set each boundary and decide what the consequence will be if he violates your boundary. I can't tell you what the consequence should be. You have to figure that out and YOU have to ENFORCE IT. A boundary is USELESS without an enforceable consequence. Read this thread:
http://survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=256949 (also go to the website I linked in the thread)

When I say "enforceable" I mean two things. One, it must be something that you can physically do. For example, if you say the consequence is "I'll throw you out!" you have to ask yourself, if he refuses to leave am I physically capable of literally picking him out and throwing him out? The answer is probably no, so that's probably not a good consequence. It has to be something that YOU can and will do if he refuses to comply with a request. Two, be sure that the consequence is something that you absolutely will follow through on emotionally. Do not make an idle threat thinking you can scare him into changing. He may choose not to so you have to be solid on your consequence.

A consequence needs to be something you think will get his attention and cause him "pain." This is always the hardest part about consequences to explain. The consequence has to cause "pain" in order to truly be a consequence but it does not mean that you are doing it to punish him. This is NOT a punishment. (And of course, I do not ever mean PHYSICAL pain, there should NEVER EVER be physical violence.) You cannot be doing it to get revenge or to punish him. Your consequence must be set with LOVE. Setting boundaries and consequences is the best way to show love for your SA. It is also the best way to LOVE YOURSELF and keep yourself safe while letting him know what you will and will not tolerate.

I think that women jump to "I'll leave you!" or "I'll divorce you!" for everything and that is not healthy either, especially since that is a threat that women rarely keep. Do not say it unless you will absolutely DO it.

The bottom line is, you have to be prepared for him to refuse at which point you HAVE TO follow through on your consequence. View each of your recoveries as yards. You each have your own yard to maintain. You need to set your boundaries and consequences (maintain your fence) but not built a wall. You may look into his yard and observe but it is not healthy to jump the fence and try to pulls his weeds. You can and should tell him that he needs to weed his yard or you won't loan him your sprinkler anymore. You also shouldn't allow him to trample your fence and start transplanting his weeds into your yard.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hope and Faith
You said:

Wish I knew why he was this way.
He is this way for the same reasons anyone becomes an addict of ANY kind. Addiction is addiction period. The best thing you can do is educate yourself about SA specifically. Use the resources I gave you.
Have some concerns about having an SA in the house with a 3 and 4 year old.

I think it's normal to feel this way and you do need to be sure your children are safe. Things to think about. In all the porn you've known about have you ever seen any child porn? Have you ever had any reason whatsoever to suspect he would molest children? His porn of choice should be a pretty good indicator of whether or not he is into children. I cannot know anything about your SA and your situation really but I will say this. Not all SAs are child molesters and not all child molesters are SAs. This is not a "one size fits all" disease. People scoff at "women's intuition" but honestly I think you would know if he was a pedophile.
You asked:
Question1: Is having him stay in a hotel right now a bad move?

Of course not. If this is what you need to feel safe then it is reasonable consequence. If you are worried that he will act out more because he is in a hotel and you're thinking of having come home only because of that, then that is codependent. If you think that having him at home will give you control over his addiction and acting out, that is not good. You are NOT responsible for HIS choices. You cannot control his addiction. You didn't CAUSE it. You cannot CONTROL it. You cannot CURE it.

If his staying at a hotel will be financially devastating to your family it is reasonable to decide to change the consequence. Perhaps an "in house" separation would be more reasonable for your situation.

Question 2: Is being married to an SA mean I'm codependent?
I think this question should actually be "Is being married to an SA mean I'm a co-addict?" My answer to that is no, not automatically. I am not a big fan of the conventional wisdom that labels every spouse of SA a co-ADDICT. In fact I think it's a load of crap that does serious damage to some women. Now, that is NOT to say that there aren't co-addicts out there because I have run across a couple. The behavior and mindset of a co-addict is very specific in my opinion. A co-addict knowingly engages in enabling the addict to continue his behavior. (It's okay if the SA looks at porn as long as he does it WITH me.) A co-addict herself engages in SA behavior. (Participating in group sex or setting up a profile on an adult hookup site as a couple when it is done to please the SA even though she's not really comfortable with it herself. Compromising her standards to appease the SA.) And in some cases simply being in very deep denial. (Choosing to believe their SA is not a SA when he very clearly is. Choosing to deny that SA is a real disease or diagnosis.)

On the other hand, I think every human on the planet has a capacity for codependency. I think is simply human nature. I do not believe that a spouse of SA is a "codependent" when it's used a label or sweeping generalization. I do believe that spouses of SA (or ANY addiction) have a greater tendency to engage in codependent BEHAVIORS. So, again, I do not see "codependent" as a diagnosis, but I do believe that one can engage in codependent behaviors that are unhealthy.

Because, honestly, everything I've read about it doesn't sound like me at all. Maybe I just don't understand what it means. Maybe I'm in denial this time?
Bottom line, don't put too much stock in the labels "co-addict" or "codependent" and instead look at your situation and YOUR behaviors and whether or not they are healthy for YOU and those around you. If you are engaging in codependent behaviors you are not automatically a "codependent" or "co-addict" but if you KNOW these behaviors are not healthy and you CHOOSE to continue them, then you may indeed have a deeper issue that would put you into the "co-addict" category. The fact that you're asking if you're in denial probably means that you are not. People in denial RARELY have the capacity to see that you could be.
Question3: do any of your family members/friends know about the SA?
Sadly, yes. Because of how and when my rSA's affairs came to light and because I didn't know what SA was etc, I told my entire family and my friends. I needed support and I just spewed it all out there. I am now very sad that I did. I didn't know about SA. I didn't know he was one. I didn't know that it was treatable and that 4 years later he'd be sober and we'd be reconciled. The main issue is my parents knowing. I have serious problems maintaining boundaries with my parents, especially my mother and she is horrid about confronting me constantly and trying to make me paranoid that he is acting out again etc. They do not understand SA and refuse to educate themselves. I've asked them repeatedly to read books and online resources so that they could understand and be supportive but they refuse. So, I've had to set boundaries and consequences with them. My mother especially. So, I regret telling everyone that I told at the time. Pick and choose VERY carefully whom you want to share this with because if he gets into recovery and you reconcile you need only those who will support you and not judge.
He just emailed me about a "beginnings" workshop. Something from a CSAT...Anyone hear of it?
I don't know. Can you give me the specific information or name of it? Is there a website? I've heard of several programs but "beginnings" is too vague for me to know what you're referring to. I will say this, if it is a workshop by a CSAT then it is probably fine.

Is your husband in therapy with a CSAT? You said "his IC brought up SA" but is his IC an actually CSAT? In your situation I think he would benefit more from a CSAT than a regular IC (though I am impressed that the IC knows about SA) Also, I firmly believe that male SAs should be treated by male CSATS only. (Why would you (general "you" not you personally) put a CSAT who craves approval from women in a room with a female CSAT and have any expectation that he would be completely open and honest?)

I need to get MASH to read. I will order today.

GOOD! It will help. I promise. When you finish MaSH you should read DCIL (Don't Call It Love) too.
Just curious, how many here have SA spouses who had a history of some kind of abuse. WH has been trying to figure out his FOO issues and didn't get anywhere with his IC 2 years ago, but in the past 2 years more things he has told me could be considered abuse/neglect.
My rSA was not physically or sexually abused. His family was very dysfunctional and his SA stems from that dysfunction. All SAs have serious family dysfunction. Common themes are: emotionally distant father and an overly enmeshed mother. But it's different for everyone.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
whatnowaz
Unfortunately, I dont believe he is willing to discuss this with his counselor. He has basically said he has made ammends with his childhood and there is no need to bring it all up again.
He is obviously in denial. You know this. My advice here is that once he is seeing a CSAT (which I address later in this post) it would be reasonable for you to request a meeting with his CSAT to fill in the blanks.
Im sad, Im scared, he is so adamant right now about how he has changed, and he wont do this anymore. How counseling is really helping. I think it's bullshit, but I dont know what to think either. I want so much to believe him. My heart knows otherwise though.

So basically you know that he is "white knuckling" it and you KNOW that he will revert. Listen to your gut. Keep yourself safe. Work on boundaries and consequences.
when I get back hme, Im going to find someplace for me to go and get some help. I dont think I will continue to see the same counselor.
Good! Yes, please do this. Find a CSAT or ask a CSAT for a referral.
I may also demand my WH see a CSAT....but Im trying to be patient. It's hard though. I just dont think he CAN change......
You can demand all you want and he can refuse. You cannot FORCE him to do anything. You can set a boundary. You can tell him that he needs to see a male CSAT for counseling and you have to set a consequence for his refusal. I will say this, if you genuinely believe that he cannot change and seek recovery then this is ALL ABOUT YOU. What are YOU going to do to change YOUR situation? What are you going to do for you?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I have more folks to reply to but I've been on the computer far too long already. I'll be back...
7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
whatnowaz
♀ Member
Member # 24543
Default  Posted: 1:18 PM, July 18th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7~ I have started to put a plan in place. It may be two more years before I make a move, if he does not change...in the long run...I hope to have gotten myself through school. I do want to be in a position financially, to walk away if that is what I decide. I am committed to taking personal steps to my own recovery. I know Im co-dependent! I have abandonment issues, and who knows what else. I believe I am staying for the wrong reasons, although despite all of the pain over the years, I do love him! I know Im not alone in that. This site has been so helpful and the advice....I wouldnt have known any of these terms or type of counseling to seek out. Thank you, all! Im sure I will have more situations with my WH come up. Yes, it breaks my heart, but I do feel stronger now than ever. I do believe in God, and I believe he does have a plan for me and for all of us. This may be my challenge in this life, but I know something good will come of it! Yes, Im waiting to see what that may be....but I do have faith!


ME(BS)-33
HIM(WH)SA(not officially Dx)-41
Married 8 years
together 15
D-day too many to remember
most recent 6-16-09
kids 4,12,14

They say "Love conquers all" Well, I am afraid they are WRONG!


Posts: 174 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: arizona
1Forward1Back
♀ Member
Member # 11057
Default  Posted: 3:38 PM, July 18th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As I understand it, a co-addict does not necessarily have to engage in sex addiction behaviours to be one. I consider myself a co-addict, because to deal with the loneliness, the pain, and the sadness, I became addicted to a number of things--prescription drugs, alcohol, shopping, overeating. I rotated these addictions, but was never really without at least one of them at any given time.

As well, I knew about the porn early on in the marriage and just ignored it after awhile. Of course, I had no idea there was such a thing as sex addiction until a few years ago, even though I knew my H used porn a whole lot more than 'normal'. As well, I never told a soul. I am a very open person and will tell people all kind of things about myself and my family, but this was one thing I kept to myself. My sisters, with whom I am very close, were very surprised when I revealed this to them post D-Day.

It seems to me the majority of spouses on here were quite stunned by the discovery of their partner's secret behaviours. Sigh, sadly I was not. As soon as I found out about the A, the term sex addiction came immediately to mind. I never called it that before; not out loud or in my mind. Hmmmmm!!!


Me: 60 Yrs. (BS)
Him: 60 Yrs.(FWH- life long sex addict)
-2 ONSs followed by an A-2005/06
-cheated while we were engaged
-seems to stray every 30 years or so
D-Day-June 10, 2006
Working on own recovery. His is his!
Married: 37 yrs. Grown ch

Posts: 966 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Canada
1Forward1Back
♀ Member
Member # 11057
Default  Posted: 4:58 PM, July 18th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

With the encouragement of my IC, I decided to back to Celebrate Recovery. As there is no COSA in my area, this is the only 12 step program available that has other spouses of SAs. I am so glad that I went last night. I met another lady who is in a similar situation. She was so happy to meet me and vice-versa. It was a good meeting and I am looking forward to going back.

My IC felt I was relying too much on her (the IC) and needed to join a program to supplement our sessions. In fact, we agreed that I can email or phone her anytime I like. I can also book a session at any time for tune-ups. I think she has taken me as far as she can and so does she. The group will help me focus on *my* own recovery more. I tended to talk about my SAh too much in our sessions. In the meetings, we are not allowed to do that, but are encouraged to focus on our own recovery. I need that. Although I have come a long way in 'letting go' of my H's healing, the weekly meetings will help me to focus even more on myself.

During our last session this week, I made a decision to stay. I have been going back and forth on staying or leaving for so long. The indecision was making me anxious and sad and quite moody. The relief at having made the decision one way or the other was liberating. I will stay unless God makes it clear I have to leave; that is, if I happen across a stash of porn and/or he has another A, etc.

It's interesting, however, how when you make a decision, you second guess yourself for the next while. I was quite depressed for the next few days, but I go back to my basic life belief that you cannot make decisions on feelings alone. I made the choice and I am sticking with it. I have to remind myself of that and will a whole lot in the future, I'm sure. My H is aware of these boundaries and as I progress, I will learn to settle on other boundaries; the daily, weekly stuff. You know what I mean, I'm sure.


Me: 60 Yrs. (BS)
Him: 60 Yrs.(FWH- life long sex addict)
-2 ONSs followed by an A-2005/06
-cheated while we were engaged
-seems to stray every 30 years or so
D-Day-June 10, 2006
Working on own recovery. His is his!
Married: 37 yrs. Grown ch

Posts: 966 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Canada
watchingU
♀ Member
Member # 22144
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, July 19th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Need opinions. I do not know how to set boundaries. I mean, if it was as simple as no contact with OW, or no porn or internet chats, that would be easy. But my H is so sneaky (by his own admission) that I never knew about his secret life. How would I know now? I can tell him, if he has inappropriate contact with OWomen by any means, we will separate, but REALLY, how can I enforce it. I have done the obvious, putting a keylogger on the computer and I check his cell phone and occasionally put a GPS on his vehicle. But that's just a bandaid that does not make me feel much better. He could always use a secret phone or a payphone. The GPS may tell me approximately where he is, but not who he is with. Heck, he could park a block away and walk to a strip club or massage parlor if he wanted to. So all I have to go on is his declaration that he is forever through with acting out. That he does not want to lose his family and life. And I don't believe a word of it. I believe the intent to change is there, but not the resolve.

I have come to the realization that I can only take care of myself, and I must. But it is a damn lonely way to live, living this lie of a life with him. It compounds things, knowing he can be a good person, that all his issues stem from severe childhood abuse and molestation. I know that everyone has a cross to bear in life, no one gets a free pass. But I get so tired of bearing this cross of pain. When he just skims over his issues, does not want to face them and try to fix them. Just wants me take his I'm sorry and move on til the next time, and the next, and the next.

I have so many (41) years invested in him. He can and has been a good husband in every way except he has this wall around him emotionally. I just accepted it all these years as from his upbringing. I thought everything else was okay. I did not know he maintained this secret life of constant OW. Now I realize my lonely life should never have been. If only he had been truthful. And I don't think I can ever forgive him. EVER.
So where does one go from here? Is it really possible to bear this cross of pain and still be able to find some happiness and joy in your life? To look past the lies and adultery and see the good parts of the man? And accept that he is broken and weak and stay with him anyway.


BW me 60(naive until 3/30/07 Dday)
WH 60(PA w/SIL PA with neighbor, 100's of EAs,chat rooms, M 1969
Multiple Ddays over the past 4 yrs (about prior infidelities, not new ones) My Gut says WH Has cheated thruout M

Posts: 520 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: South
JustWow
♀ Member
Member # 19636
Default  Posted: 10:28 AM, July 19th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

watchingU
Boundaries are meant to protect you, not control him, right? Well, from his history, you probably are safer to assume he IS acting out, rahter than going maniacal trying to monitor and catch him.

Why not make him getting into IC with a CSAT and joining an SA group, getting a sponsor, working the 12 steps a necessary thing you need in order to try to begin to feel safe in this relationship?

In other words, rather than you trying to catch hm being "bad", put the onus onhim to prove to you he isn't. And if he won't do that, if he won't even try, you have your answer, hun. And you make yourself a promise of what YOU will do to protect YOU in that event, then hold yourself to it. Separate? D? Move to a different room of the house? What ever it is you need to feel safe and detach from his disease.

You cannot make him do anything. You need to focus on doing for yourself what you need to be safe, and he can either choose to participate in that or not. But in the end, you are responsible for you and need to remove harmful things from your life.

Good luck. Boundaries are tough.


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3557 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
ky_197220
♀ Member
Member # 24728
Default  Posted: 10:32 AM, July 19th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can anyone refer me to a good definition of a SA. I'm beginning to think that may be my WS big issue along with childhood physical, emotional & sexual abuse. While snooping I've discovered he set up a match.com account while also seeing the OW and visited a porn site daily. The match.com account is what freaks me out the most.

As weird as it might sound I am wondering if having the babies triggered him since they were abused at a young age. The crying bothered him more than what was normal. It's also about the same time he really started to detach himself from me, them and eventually other people. I would appreciate the input of anyone who has some experience with this. It's not an excuse for what he has done to us but when I think of him and his sibling as young kids and what they were forced to do I just want to cry for him.


BS with beautiful b/g twins

Status - happily divorced.


Posts: 156 | Registered: Jul 2009
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 1:26 PM, July 19th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Disclaimer: My posts often look like 2x4s. I rarely mean them to be 2x4s and when I do, I state it. I am just very honest and straightforward. I don't see the point in sugar coating things. Being this blunt online is often a problem. If you were to speak with me in person, you would hear my compassionate tone. You would see my body language etc. So just remember, I'm always doing this out of caring and compassion. I'm also just brutally honest.

watchingU
JustWow gave really great advice but I'm going to throw my 2 cents worth in too.

So all I have to go on is his declaration that he is forever through with acting out. That he does not want to lose his family and life. And I don't believe a word of it. I believe the intent to change is there, but not the resolve.
Is he working a recovery program? Seeing a CSAT? Going to SA? Is he sober? You say you don't believe a word of it. So I'm guessing the answer is no, he's not in recovery. He's claiming to be white knuckling it, which NEVER works. JustWow is right, you can go ahead and just assume that he is acting out since he's not in recovery.

Your post isn't really discussing boundaries. Your post is discussing your desperate attempt to control the SA. Your post is really addressing your codependence (or codependent behaviors). Sweetie, even your user name declares your codependence. It practically screams it. Your focus is on WATCHING him, spying on him, trying to CONTROL him, trying to control his SA. It's all about HIM with no focus on YOU. You have to work a recovery program too. (Read my list of resources, it's widely available.)

You're not setting boundaries to keep his shit out of your yard. Instead you've turned him loose in your yard wreaking havoc. You're running around behind him trying to find all the piles of shit. You *think* you're ahead of him and preventing him from crapping in your yard. You're not. Right now you're the person with the barrel and shovel following the elephants in the parade. (Apparently I'm all about metaphors today. Or perhaps it's analogies... I dunno but metaphor works better going into the next paragraph.)

You need to metaphorically kick him out of your yard and have him take his shit with him. You need to take control of YOUR recovery and this is where boundaries and consequences come in. There is only ONE boundary you need to set right now. ONE.

He needs to find a CSAT and go to SA meetings.

If he seeks treatment it will be easier for you to stop your behaviors and work on YOUR recovery. BUT you cannot wait around for him to do so. You need to be seeing a CSAT (or an IC who is an expert on treating spouses of SA) and working on you.

I have come to the realization that I can only take care of myself, and I must.

Yes, you must!
But it is a damn lonely way to live, living this lie of a life with him.
There is no "but." You have to work on taking care of you. You're right that it's lonely living a lie but you're not because of focusing on yourself, you're lonely because you're focusing on HIM. So you've got it a bit backward.
It compounds things, knowing he can be a good person, that all his issues stem from severe childhood abuse and molestation.
Yes and of course you feel for him but do not allow him and his feelings to be more important than your own!
I know that everyone has a cross to bear in life, no one gets a free pass. But I get so tired of bearing this cross of pain.
No, we don't. We CHOOSE what we carry. We don't necessarily pick it up (sometimes we do, of course) but in this case none of us chose this intentionally but we do choose whether or not we CARRY it. You CAN put it down. You have to CHOOSE to put it down. It is NOT yours to carry.
When he just skims over his issues, does not want to face them and try to fix them.
That's HIS baggage. Not yours.
Just wants me take his I'm sorry and move on til the next time, and the next, and the next.
And right now you're accepting that. You're letting him pile all this on you and you're labeling it as your "cross to bear." PUT IT DOWN. It's not yours to carry.

Put it down and use it to build your boundaries.

So, we've identified the BOUNDARY (he sees CSAT and goes to SA) but what about a consequence? This is where most people just fall flat on their faces. Figuring out appropriate and enforceable consequences that one is actually WILLING to do is a bitch. I will say this, a good IC should be able to help you figure this one out and no one should be assuming that the only consequence is to "kick him out" or "leave him" or "divorce him." If you are not ready, willing and able to do that, then it is NOT an appropriate and enforceable consequence now is it?

Ok, so what do I mean by "appropriate?" An appropriate consequence is one that fits the boundary violation's severity. An appropriate consequence will cause the boundary violator some emotional discomfort. It will get his attention. It will be unpleasant and perhaps cause him "pain." Let's be very, very clear here. When I say "pain" I do NOT EVER mean physical pain or suffering. Physical violence is not okay. Consequences are NOT punishments.

What do I mean by "enforceable?" An enforceable boundary is one that you will follow through on. One that is physically and emotionally doable for YOU. Saying, "I'll throw you out!" sounds like a good consequence but in all reality, unless you are physically able to pick him up and literally throw him out of the house, it's NOT enforceable. You can ask him to leave but if he refuses you cannot physically enforce it. Same goes with any consequence that involves not being around the boundary violator. If you think that your husband will comply with a request to sleep on the couch or sleep in another room then you can certainly try that as a consequence but you must be prepared for that time when he decides he's simply not going to comply. At that point it makes much more sense for you to remove yourself from the situation. You sleep on the couch or in another room. The goal is to not share space with him.

Let's simplify this by using examples of boundaries and consequences we use with our children every day. We don't call it that, we perhaps call it discipline but it boils down to simple, appropriate and enforceable boundaries and consequences.

Boundary: Your child is not allowed to play video games unless his homework is finished.

You see your child playing video games. You ask if his homework is finished. He claims it is. You warn him that if he is lying there will be an additional consequence. He hesitates. You open his backpack and find that he has not completed his math homework.

Consequence: Your child is grounded from his video games for one night for not doing his homework. Additionally, he is grounded from his video games for an additional 7 days for LYING about it.

Is the boundary appropriate? Yes.

Are the consequences appropriate and enforceable?
Yes.

So that is a very, very simplified example and we all know that dealing with SA is FAR more complicated. But starting that simple place might be helpful.

One key thing that is missing in the child scenario is that with a child we don't have to worry about what will happen if the child refuses to comply because ultimately, as parents, we have authority and resources that as spouses we do not have.

The cold hard truth is that when dealing with an addict there is always the very real possibility that the addict will choose his addiction. That is why the bottom line and key to setting boundaries and consequences is that you must SURRENDER the outcome. If you are setting boundaries and consequences in the hopes of achieving a specific outcome that you think you can control. You are not setting boundaries and consequences you are trying to manipulate, either the other person or the situation.

( the following is from http://www.heart-2-heart.ca/men/page14.html )

~Setting a boundary is not making a threat - it is communicating clearly what the consequences will be if the other person continues to treat us in an unacceptable manner. It is a consequence of the other person's behavior.

~Setting a boundary is not an attempt to control the other person - although some of the people who you set boundaries with will certainly accuse you of that - just as some will interpret it as a threat. Setting a boundary is a part of the process of defining yourself and what is acceptable to you. It is a major step in taking what control you can of how you allow others to treat you. It is a vital responsibility to yourself and your life.

~Setting a boundary is not a more sophisticated way of manipulation - although some people will say they are setting boundaries, when in fact they are attempting to manipulate.

The difference between setting a boundary in a good healthy way and manipulating is this: When you set a boundary you let go of the outcome.

Back to my own words now.

Ok so JustWow and I have both given you advice on what the boundary should be now you need to work on figuring out a consequence. We can't figure it out for you but we can offer advice. Throw some ideas out here and maybe we can help you decide what will work for you.

And lastly, I'll say it again, you need IC for YOU to help you work through this. And if you haven't, read the books I recommend.
7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

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