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User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts 3
Iwillrecover
♀ Member
Member # 22329
Default  Posted: 11:43 AM, April 9th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't have time to respond to all that has happened on this forum since my last post right now. but I wanted send hugs to savetonight, I probably can't add more than what the other members have said to you but my heart aches for you.

Thanks to innerstrength, I emailed him the link to the test. He is starting to consider he might have a problem details later when I get time & some comments on other people's posts later too.

I wanted to post this I received a long time ago in an email.

By Richard Bach

"Will you love me if I go out and sleep with every hot thing that walks past ... ?

Will you love me if I come home drunk every night ... ?

Will you love me if I gamble away all our savings and put us into deep debt ... ?

Will you love me if I abuse the neighbor's kid ... ?

Will you love me if I do everything possible to tear down our lives ... ? Lie and steal and cheat ... ? Will you love me if I treat you like sh*t ... ?

No, do not love me unconditionally.

Love me conditionally -- when I do the right thing to the best of my abilities, and when I ask the same of you."


[This message edited by Iwillrecover at 11:44 AM, April 9th (Thursday)]


Posts: 235 | Registered: Jan 2009
birdwatch
♀ Member
Member # 19978
Default  Posted: 12:22 PM, April 9th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dear savetonight,

I am sending you my hugs and kisses.

I think you know your husband has been unfaithful to you for a while, but you have only recently recognized the breath and depth of the acting out, which seems to suggest SA. I often say that with SA, there are two distinct D Days. The first D Day is when the person is confronted for infidelities, the second Day is when he/she is confronted for SA. For many, like my husband, it was much easier for him to accept responsibility and admit his problem with infidelities than with SA. Please do not under-estimate that.

Like many other have already said, there is nothing wrong with you. Even the husbands of Uma Thurman and Shania Twain had cheated on them. Especially with SA, it is an illness. Sometimes it is easier to relate when we look at alcoholics. One of my friends, who was an alcholic, lost her job because she could no longer perform her duties, suffered seizures, hospitalized for numerous times for alcohol poisoning and liver damage, and lost her driver's licence. Yet, she continued to drink. She died a few years ago in her husband's arms. She was a university educated and loving woman, but she was so ill that she would risk everything, even her life, to have one more drink. I hope you realize, just as there was nothing wrong with her husband, there is nothing wrong with you.

As to the OW, please ignore her. And if at all possible, avoid situations where you may be in contact with any of the OWs. Promise me you won't go "pain shopping", i.e. subconsciously seeking out situations to hurt yourself. If they know your husband has a family, and they still engage in inappropriate activities with him, that tells you a lot about their morals and character. Also, my mother once said to me, it is only your husband, not all other women on this planet, who has promised you loyalty. It is your husband whom you need to resolve the issue with, not these other women.

And to make you feel less alone, I want to report (like many others have already) that my husband has also engaged in many different inappropriate behaviours: texting, phone sex, porn, meeting up, emotional affair, flirting, physical affair and personal dating sites (posed as both a married man seeking "intimate encounters" but "partner not included" and also as a single man - boy he covered all the basis ). Some of these women are total strangers, some are acquaintances, some are old friends that he bumped into, and some are clients.

I hope you can call us your friend. All of us are here to support each other. Post as often as you wish.

birdwatch


* Known WS since 2001. Me: 37.
* D Day 1 - Mar 2008: Discovered cyber/phone sex, dating sites etc
* D Day 2 - May 2008: Discovered more "stuff". WS admitted to one A - my gut says > half a dozen.
* R'ing. IC & MC. WS is sex addict.

Posts: 377 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Toronto, Canada
Iwillrecover
♀ Member
Member # 22329
Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, April 9th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Innerstrength & anyone interested. SO took the test at
http://www.sexhelp.com/addiction_tests.cfm
& it said he was not SA!!! He can't talk right now we will talk more later but he said he answered honestly...yes to a lot of the questions. I took the test knowing I wasn't one but to see how accurate I think the test is. I answered no to almost everything & could easily explain the ones I said yes to.

Could he still be one? Is that a good test?

I don't know where he was on the graph. He couldn't understand it & I couldn't either but I know I was at the very beginning...a 1 or something.

I don't know if it's good or bad that he is not one. Last night talking he asked questions about what one is & what they need to do, & should he also read books.

I'm going to meet him today on his business trip that I was worried about.

hope
I feel for you. My SO had his ONS out of town & he goes out of town all the time for work. His first trip after that he took me cos he didn't wanna lose me. The next one, last weekend, he didn't, this one he wasn't going to but again I broke up with him the other night & he's trying anything to keep me. I can't help but feel that unless I am walking out the door he wont let me come all the time. We don't have the money for me to come & his boss doesn't like it.

All the discussions on staying or going...it's up to the individual spouse what they decide to do. They have to live with their choices. They are not good or bad just as the SA is not good or bad. It's just what do we want for our selves? What kind of life do we want? I do think we have full responsibility of our choices. It's not our fault they do what they do but nobody makes us stay & if we get hurt more for staying we either believed they wouldn't do it again & that was a chance we were willing to take or we knew they would & stayed anyway, not good not bad.

I love my SO SA or not, liar or not & if I leave him it doesn't mean I have abandoned a good person with a problem. I can love him, not think he's bad, not judge him & still leave him because it's not the kind of relationship I want. I don't want a relationship with an alcoholic either unless they are sober with some time up, rather than one who is on the fence, brand new, not even maybe sure if they want to change. (this is how I see my SO if he is SA)

I'm not sure if this is true but I've heard from people who know about addictions & 12 step programs (I'm in AA a long time sober) & also from dual addicted people that there are a lot more people relapsing or not getting sober in SA. I know someone who has about 15-20 years sober in AA who can't get more than 2 months in SA & he's been going there for years & he really wants to be sober. He tells me the lengths he goes to to stay sexually sober. Still he fails. It seems to be a difficult one.

[This message edited by Iwillrecover at 1:06 PM, April 9th (Thursday)]


Posts: 235 | Registered: Jan 2009
Iwillrecover
♀ Member
Member # 22329
Default  Posted: 1:20 PM, April 9th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He'll probably be mad at me for not trusting him but I want SO to retake the SA test. I want him to be sure he was being honest with himself.

[This message edited by Iwillrecover at 1:23 PM, April 9th (Thursday)]


Posts: 235 | Registered: Jan 2009
birdwatch
♀ Member
Member # 19978
Default  Posted: 4:40 PM, April 9th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dear Iwillrecover, Hope and others,

Only a CSAT can make a proper diagnosis. Internet resources are valuable in providing guidelines, but are not a replacement for a professional. E.g. If you are ill, you may search the net for information, but that should never replace a trip to the doctor.

Secondly, at this point, whether your spouse is a SA or not is not the issue. His behaviours are unacceptable to you as his partner, and his behavours have to stop, whether he is a SA or not.

Finally, regarding following him around on trips, I believe it is more about your wanting to control him (which is understandable). But please remember, you cannot control your husband or his acting out. My husband almost never went out of town and he managed to act out for the entire 7 years I have known him (and likely before that). One time, he invited one of the OWs to my house on a Saturday when I was out for lunch with friends. If our spouses want to act out, they can act out at home or in Japan, they can have physical sex in a hotel or just text messages in your own background. There is no practical benefit to control your husband (it just won't work), and any control that you might be able to exert is illusory. But worse yet, the control will hurt you, mentally and eventually physically. It will enslave and imprison you.

Only your husband can admit to the problem and commit to recovery. You cannot do that for him, nor can you manipulate or control him into doing that. Any superficial "gains" that you might have are only temporary and not sustainable if your husband is not in recovery.

If you follow him on every business trip, are you going to follow him during his work hours because he may act out with a co-worker? Are you going to give up your own job or life so that you can sit across from his desk at his office? Are you going to put him under house arrest so he cannot have any interact with any woman whatsoever, and if so, how can you prevent him from inviting a woman to your house or texting or calling other women? Are you going to prevent him from having internet access and email accounts, and are you going to tell his boss that he cannot use email or access the internet even when most jobs now require these technological tools? Where does this end? Are you willing to be a full-time prison guard? What kind of a life is that?

Instead of focusing on controling him, try to use that time and energy to focus on yourself. Seek IC for yourself. Be gentle with yourself.

I know it's easier said than done, and we all struggle through the control issue. I wish you peace and serenity. It's time for you to look after you.

birdwatch

[This message edited by birdwatch at 4:42 PM, April 9th (Thursday)]


* Known WS since 2001. Me: 37.
* D Day 1 - Mar 2008: Discovered cyber/phone sex, dating sites etc
* D Day 2 - May 2008: Discovered more "stuff". WS admitted to one A - my gut says > half a dozen.
* R'ing. IC & MC. WS is sex addict.

Posts: 377 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Toronto, Canada
omisery
♀ Member
Member # 22967
Default  Posted: 4:54 PM, April 9th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Iwillrecover: My WH took that same test and got a 16. Though, that was only because I helped him answer some of the questions. For instance, he didn't believe he had ever engaged in anything "risky" because he used condoms with the hookers. Whereas, I had a different opinion in that matter and he ended up changing his answer to yes.

Anyway, right now he is at his IC taking a more comprehensive test. Let's hope he answers those questions honestly.


Me: BW 40
Him: WH 45

Is this the end or did it just begin - Led Zeppelin


Posts: 155 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: California
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 6:42 PM, April 9th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Iwillrecover, Omisery has a good point on that test - I am quite sure if my WS took that test, he would not think he had a problem with a lot of things that I can see. He may not be consciously lying on the answers, but I don't think he would answer them truthfully.

Obviously, sex with a hooker is risky, condom or not, you don't know this person, some of them are NOT nice people and will rob or do other things. But it is the difference between how they think and hide things to themselves, I believe it is also called minimizing, where they negate the risks and the problems to make them seem not so bad.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14915 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
lovedontlivehere
♀ Member
Member # 20055
Default  Posted: 6:47 PM, April 9th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think some of the questions need to be more specific. I'm going to have to look this up again, but I remember a questionnaire asking if the partner had ever subscribed to Playboy or Penthouse. My partner would have answer no, but he has subscribed to Maxim as well as online sites.


Partner still wanking off into fantasy land.
*update* No longer together, but he was STABBED and now wants R. Whatever.

Posts: 1256 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Deep South
foray
♀ Member
Member # 17842
Default  Posted: 7:08 PM, April 9th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My SAH has been going to SAA meetings for a month now (twice a week) and he still doesn't have a sponsor, nor has he really started any step work (other than attending meetings). Is this normal or is he really dragging his feet?


Me: BW, 41
Him: WH, 44
Married: 7 yrs (together 14)

D-Day #1 1/15/08 LTA: summer 2004 - Dec 2007
D-Day #2 2/23/09 a dozen (more or less) prostitutes during "R"


Posts: 250 | Registered: Jan 2008
lovedontlivehere
♀ Member
Member # 20055
Default  Posted: 8:45 PM, April 9th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Foray,

Does he at least have numbers he can call?


Partner still wanking off into fantasy land.
*update* No longer together, but he was STABBED and now wants R. Whatever.

Posts: 1256 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Deep South
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 9:49 PM, April 9th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm so sorry I'm MIA. Nine million fires to put out and a holiday and my daughter's bday coming up.

If anyone needs a specific question answered please PM me.

I will catch up as soon as humanly possible.
7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
innerstrength
♀ Member
Member # 19540
Default  Posted: 10:12 PM, April 9th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Iwillrecover-

Could he still be one? Is that a good test?

Birdwatch is right- That test is only meant to be a guide. You can have someone who is in the early stages of SA who may masturbate compulsively and watch porn non-stop, but maybe they haven't had any real life encounters- yet. SA is an escalating addiction and it tends to progress over time. It takes more and more to get the "high".

I don't know where he was on the graph. He couldn't understand it & I couldn't either

If I remember correctly, It's 2 bell curves, and there is a spectrum there. It doesn't really say that you are and SA or you're not one- It just shows you where on the spectrum you fall, as compared to everyone else, addicts and non-addicts alike. You can have someone who is completely addicted to online porn, and may score a 4 or 5, who is an addict and will eventually progress further- And you can also have someone who really likes online porn, but can separate from it and who is not going to escalate later- They may score the same, but one is an addict and one is not. That's where the CSAT is so important. They can analyze whether there really is a problem there or not.

In my H's case, he scored so far over on the addicts side, that it was pretty obvious for him and I to see that he had a problem.

I also agree with NA and omisery that sometimes their view is so distorted that they can't really answer some of the questions honestly- They can't see some of the things that they've done and realize the risks they take.

Good luck with everything- and I still would recommend a CSAT for a proper diagnosis- The test is just a jumping off point to start the discussion.


Me: BS
Him: WS,SA
D-Day #1: 10/22/05
D-Day #2: 4/27/08
In R, LOTS of counseling this time!
I'm finding out day by day how strong I can be... I wish I never had to get to this self-discovery...

Posts: 189 | Registered: May 2008
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 8:16 AM, April 10th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, and one of the big and most important questions on any of the sexual addiction tests I've seen is "does your sexual habits cause problems in a relationship?"

That is a pretty important one right there, and if I remember right, at Sexaholics Anonymous, if you answer yes to even one question, they tell you that it may be a good idea to check a bit further for help.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14915 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
Eternaloptimist
♀ Member
Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 11:26 AM, April 10th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can see the value in those online tests, but there can be a danger in putting too much faith in them. In my humble opinion, if you're even having to take one (either because you're worried yourself or your partner is), there are clearly issues that need addressing. Whether it's addiction?? Well, as others have pointed out, addiction is a progressive disease.
If my husband had taken the test 15 years ago, he would have answered very differently. Of course, that behavior escalated and his life circumstances changed (he got married, for example) so what could have been written off as "sowing his oats" becomes quite different in the context of a committed relationship. So though he wouldn't have been lying per se 15 years ago, he wouldn't have been honestly acknowledging how dangerous his behavior was.
I hope I'm not muddying the waters here -- I'm just pointing out that those tests are just guidelines. Get an honest appraisal by a CSAT about YOUR specific situation, when possible.

7,
I hear ya! I've been crazy busy and it all finally caught up with me. I'm completely exhausted -- emotionally and physically. Hope you can take some time for yourself to catch your breath. You've got a baby to grow!!! Please take it easy... We all want this for you so badly.


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Toronto
Iwillrecover
♀ Member
Member # 22329
Default  Posted: 11:51 AM, April 10th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Inner, birdwatch, omisery, ldlh, naive, EO & anyone else I forgot that commented on the SA testing...thanks for your wise words.

I will have him retake the online test & see a CSAT when we can afford it. It's not that if he his diagnosed to not be a SA that I will think everything is alright. It's just that an accurate evaluation needs to be made to take the appropriate action. His behavior has caused problems & it needs to change. He & i both agree on that. We just need to decide what course of action is most effective.

Secondly I am still up in the air about whether to R & the more accurate info I have the better I can make that decision.


Posts: 235 | Registered: Jan 2009
luv80smusic
♀ Member
Member # 17248
Default  Posted: 11:52 AM, April 10th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't usually post here but I have a question.

Is it OK for your SA husband to make sexual comments about you?
For example, any time he can turn a remark into something sexual, he will. Not in front of anyone else but me, but he will. You know if a word or phrase has two meanings, he will automatically think if the dirty one and make a comment. Is it just the way the SA minds works? It bothers me. Shouldn't he be trying to NOT think like that, even if it is about me?

All comments welcome.


Betrayed wife
D Day 9/7/07
Reconciled yes 100% trust no

To forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover that the prisoner was you.


Posts: 622 | Registered: Dec 2007
birdwatch
♀ Member
Member # 19978
Default  Posted: 12:11 PM, April 10th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

luv80smusic,

It is a very good question which I honestly do not know the answer.

Sex addicts have a tendency to sexualize and objectify people. That's why, for example, it is dangerous for a sex addict to watch porn. On the other hand, a sex addict faces a different challenge than an alcoholic or gambler: sobriety for an alcoholic is no drink under any circumstances and sobriety for a gambler is no gambling under any circumstances, while sobriety for a sex addict is healthy sexual health and relationship and NOT no sex under any circumstances. In this regard, a sex addict faces a similar challenge as a compulsive eater: sobriety for the latter cannot be stop eating altogether.

I am guessing here that the answer to your question depends on whether your husband is in recovery in general and the length of time since sobriety, whether he is in true recovery or just white knuckling, what makes you feel comfortable, and honest communication between you and your husband about your sexual relationship. I hope you have the help of a professional to resolve these issues.

birdwatch


* Known WS since 2001. Me: 37.
* D Day 1 - Mar 2008: Discovered cyber/phone sex, dating sites etc
* D Day 2 - May 2008: Discovered more "stuff". WS admitted to one A - my gut says > half a dozen.
* R'ing. IC & MC. WS is sex addict.

Posts: 377 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Toronto, Canada
Iwillrecover
♀ Member
Member # 22329
Default  Posted: 12:18 PM, April 10th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I read somewhere on this thread that someone's spouse went to a CSAT & now they're doing a 40 day thing & 90 day thing, abstinance or something. Is that celibacy? I can see how that can help a SA but not how it can help a relationship already in trouble.

So to be supportive of the recovery of a SA we have to sacrifice our relationship? I guess if they're SA it's f****d anyway so I suppose it's a better choice. It sounds like helping someone to recoer is more like being a mother than a wife. I'd like to be a lover to my SO not a mother. I struggle to stop mothering.

[This message edited by Iwillrecover at 12:39 PM, April 10th (Friday)]


Posts: 235 | Registered: Jan 2009
birdwatch
♀ Member
Member # 19978
Default  Posted: 12:19 PM, April 10th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Iwillrecover,

Secondly I am still up in the air about whether to R & the more accurate info I have the better I can make that decision.

It is generally recommended that no major decisions be made within the first year of discovery. It is OK to be "up in the air" R; in fact, it is likely the most beneficial state of affairs for you at this time. It is trite but true that only time can heal. You need the time to experience all the messy emotions, to be educated, to rebuild your emotional stability and health, to weigh all the options, to explore all emotional trauma you might have experienced in your past separate and apart from your husband's SA, to observe your husband's progress in recovery (or lack thereof), and to make an informed decision.

Please believe me, you cannot rush through these steps. It is perfectly legitimate to tell your husband that you are not certain at this time what you wish to do and that you need time to heal and make an informed decision.

Take care of yourself.

birdwatch


* Known WS since 2001. Me: 37.
* D Day 1 - Mar 2008: Discovered cyber/phone sex, dating sites etc
* D Day 2 - May 2008: Discovered more "stuff". WS admitted to one A - my gut says > half a dozen.
* R'ing. IC & MC. WS is sex addict.

Posts: 377 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Toronto, Canada
too trusting BW
♀ Member
Member # 15459
Default  Posted: 2:08 PM, April 10th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Iwillrecover,
I wanted to respond to the celibacy question.

I had HUGE issues with dealing with abstinence. Our marriage had been one of rare sex for 8 yrs. Only after the infidelities came out did our frequency resemble something "normal."

How dare he expect me to be supportive of no sex, AGAIN!

How dare he expect me to be sympathetic to the need to restart 90 days because he couldn't handle it!

Then after two starts and some stalling, I am just supposed to wait for him to say if we are celibate or not?

I was giving my decision to have sex or not to have sex, up to another person.
Is that healthy? Shouldn't I be the one to make that decision?

That was the first step to my realization that I had lost myself in this "sex" confusion.

I made the decision in December and told my SAH "I am choosing to not have sex with you until I feel ok with it."

(I had questions after we had sex almost every time: "is he acting out, why does he act withdrawn....." Doesn't sound like intimacy.)

One of the things I have found is that I had many feelings tied up with the sex issue in my marriage that I needed to deal with. From feeling undesirable to unexciting and many others.

Because my SAH tends to keep me on the outside and doesn't touch much unless it is leading to sex, I craved it.

Sex (foreplay) was as close as I was able to come to intimacy in my marriage.

Just knowing this has helped me become more intimate (translate to REAL) with myself. I am truly seeing my emotions in relation to this issue without the cloud of desperation for love.

Wow, I said far more than I meant to.

The thought I am really trying to share is the idea that celibacy is synonymous with "sacrificing our relationship" says a lot about how the relationship is perceived.

Its funny how my thinking has changed to now believe everyone needs to have a period of abstinence or celibacy in their marriage to clear things a bit.


Me 39
SA-FWH 44
11yrs M
In R-maybe
3 DC from Marriage #1
1 DS together
at least 4 d-days

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