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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts 3
KGT_123
♀ Member
Member # 17881
Default  Posted: 2:26 PM, May 27th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For any BS's out there who are making the attempt to support their WS/SA through the recovery process - do you ever feel as though they are getting off too easy?

I feel that way. I feel that WH did all these horrible things to me and to our marriage and here I am ready to pick up the pieces. I make the appointments, buy the books, encourage the discussions, etc. He doesn't DO anything to help himself. He is ready to go along with anything I plan. But that isn't good enough for me right now.

I'm sure these are co-dependant behaviors and I am working on getting referred to an IC who specializes in this.

I have so much anger right now. I want him to hurt as much as I do. I realize I am making life way too easy for him. I provide all the comforts and he just goes along with everything. Well I am damn tired.


Me - BW (35)
Him - WH (41)
One Little Peanut - 2 years old
1-21-08: D-Day 1 - OW1
3-5-08: D-Day 2 - OW2
12-5-08: FULL DISCLOSURE from 1&2
4-23-09: Found WH trolling on Ashley Madison
4-29-09: D-Day 3

Posts: 415 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: NYC / Long Island
hope4tomorrow
♀ Member
Member # 21673
Default  Posted: 3:46 PM, May 27th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just popping in to say hi. I'm back from my visit with the inlaws. I'm so very glad to be home.

What I'm not glad about is that I'm back to the realities of life and the whole SA stuff. It's hitting me like a ton of bricks.

I've read some on here and know that I need to do some self care. So off to do something for me.


Me BW
Him WH-SA
Married 12 years
3 Beautiful girls 8 and under

Posts: 346 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
Stop
♂ Member
Member # 23564
Default  Posted: 5:01 PM, May 27th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As I have previously posted, my wife is acting out blatantly an unrepentantly. Therefore I am considering all my options. A somewhat improbable option is to allow some time to pass to see if she will wake up to her addictions and decide to get help and get herself under control.

This is the most difficult option for a codependent type like me but the payoff would be good because I have loved her for a long time and this situation has floored me. Anyway to my question.

Anybody know the long term recidivism rate (or success rate) with classic (abused in childhood etc) type addicts. She is SA and GA therapy didnt take very well on the gambling but being broke has slowed her down on that.

What I am wondering is if that difficult option does present itself....what are the chances it really never works. Statistical knowledge or first hand experience either one might help me.

I have read a number of posts of people who have been there and are there. The ratio is hard to determine and so I ask the forum for a concensus on the issue.


Me: Recovering codependent BH
Her: Long term gambling addict, unadmitted,unrepentant,practicing sex addict.
I didn't cause it, I can't control it, I can't fix it.
"Healing starts when you start taking care of yourself and let go of

Posts: 90 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: Midwest
JustWow
♀ Member
Member # 19636
Default  Posted: 5:30 PM, May 27th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

KGT_123:

You might feel like your H is getting off too easy, maybe he is. Hun, gentle 2x4, he needs to be more invested in his own recovery than simply being willing to do whatever you set up for him. You need to detach from the illness, set a boundary about what you need for HIM to do for HIS recovery, and let go of the outcome. It seems like buying his books, setting up appointments, etc., that you are trying to control the outcome of his recovery, and you just can't. He needs to own it or it won't happen.

Turn your priorities to getting your IC referral, get some good codependancy materials to work on your own in the meantime while you wait. Start managing your recovery, that is the one you have control of.

No one said it was easy or fair. It isn't.

((((((KGT_123)))))


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3556 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
JustWow
♀ Member
Member # 19636
Default  Posted: 5:36 PM, May 27th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

broken11:

My WH hasn't made any changes. I wrote a last ditch letter about my feelings about his addiction. He admits he has a problem, but still isn't willing to make the big changes.

He likely won't make any changes, big or little, till he hits bottom. Admitting he has a problem tha he isn't willing to fix is indicative of how dependant he is on his addicition. Don't be impressed that he's "throwing you a bone" by admitting a problem. He's trying to keep you engaged in his life. Not really an attractive option, now is it?

You're doing remarkably well, broken. You KNOW it. Short term, doing the right thing and taking care of yourself, setting appropriate boundaries and detaching doesn't FEEL good. But long term it does and will.

Keep going strong.


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3556 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
JustWow
♀ Member
Member # 19636
Default  Posted: 5:40 PM, May 27th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Stop:

Its been a while since I read them, but I think one of Patrick Carnes books gives the stats on long term recovery rates, it just forget which one it was. According to him, BTW, some 90 - 95% of SA's were physically, emotionally and/or sexually abused as childred. So most SA's are "classic". Mine is, he suffered all three of the above kinds of abuse as a child.


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3556 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
broken11
♀ Member
Member # 23277
Default  Posted: 6:43 PM, May 27th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

JustWow,

Why isn't losing me enough? It hurts that the end of our marriage isn't bottom for him.


Me: BW 30
WH:30
D-day #2 2/26/09
Filed for the big D

Posts: 619 | Registered: Mar 2009
broken11
♀ Member
Member # 23277
Default  Posted: 6:44 PM, May 27th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

JustWow,

Why isn't losing me enough? It hurts that the end of our marriage isn't bottom for him.


Me: BW 30
WH:30
D-day #2 2/26/09
Filed for the big D

Posts: 619 | Registered: Mar 2009
Stop
♂ Member
Member # 23564
Default  Posted: 7:05 PM, May 27th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Broken11- yes it hurts and inappropriately so. I am learning that an addict has no capacity for empathy what so ever. They don't even think about how you feel and would be confused if they were placed in your mind for a few minutes.

I heard it put in the way I will finish with(crudely I'm sorry but effectively I think} The practicing addict retains the logic in his/her brain and is plenty tricky and smart. But they are primarily living in the reptile part of their brain. They are not using the socialized part, the part that filters out immoral, antisocial, or in other ways inappropriate actions or anti social consequences.

You or I might have the base urge to do exactly what the addict has the urge to do but we filter it through the part of our brain that deals in empathy and common sense. The addict doesn't.

Anyway here is the verbatin quote from a highly educated person on the subject told to me verbally, second hand.

"If he/she doesn't have to fight it or flee from it, and if they can't eat it or fuck it. It doesn't mean anything to them."

I am not only sorry for your pain, I share it. I am thankful for this forum. None of us need feel alone.


Me: Recovering codependent BH
Her: Long term gambling addict, unadmitted,unrepentant,practicing sex addict.
I didn't cause it, I can't control it, I can't fix it.
"Healing starts when you start taking care of yourself and let go of

Posts: 90 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: Midwest
JustWow
♀ Member
Member # 19636
Default  Posted: 7:38 PM, May 27th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Broken:

I know it hurts hun. Truth is, maybe he doesn't yet believe he HAS lost you. Maybe he thinks he can bargain, and manipulate and negotiate with your boundaries. Maybe his distorted thinking doesn't yet think you two are at the end yet. Maybe he doesn't think you two can ever repair your M because he doesn't believe HE is loveable, and all that hard work and change, that he is terrified of BTW, won't do any good because you're never going to love him. I'm not saying you don't, I'm saying what HE might believe. Bottom for an addict I guess, is when their addiction not only no longer medicates their issues, but it brings too many other issues that make their whole life hopeless if they DO keep it up. I dunno. But know, KNOW, that addict's thinking is incredibly distorted, and hard to understand.

You are more than worth it. That he doesn't see that is just further proof how distorted his thinking is.

(((((broken)))))


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3556 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
spring2420
♀ New Member
Member # 23676
Default  Posted: 7:43 PM, May 27th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Broken,

I completely second what JustWow just wrote, since I sense that in my own SAH. He even said himself that "if this is the bottom, why don't I feel that desperate need to change?" And he answered himself saying that he still hoped we would reconcile and wondered if the aftermath of divorce, if life after the marriage would be the bottom.

In any case, if you are in the divorce process, but not actually apart yet, it may just be that he still thinks it won't happen.

I wish I would say something to make it feel better, but I'll just add another virtual hug.


me: BW 33
him: SAH 35
Married 4.5 years, 1-year-old son
DD#1: 2004, found secret email account, craigslist emails, webcam and chat
DD#2: 2/14/2007 discovered he had slept with a prostitute and had phone sex with women met online
DD#3: 4/7/2008

Posts: 16 | Registered: Apr 2009
broken11
♀ Member
Member # 23277
Default  Posted: 8:37 PM, May 27th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You are more than worth it. That he doesn't see that is just further proof how distorted his thinking is.
Thanks JW :)

I know that this is codependant thinking, but it's so hard to give up on him and my marriage. He really was my best friend. Just a wonderful man. I can't believe I have lost him to this. I don't recognize him at all. God, I miss him.

Spring We've been living apart for several months now, and that is how he wants it to stay.


Me: BW 30
WH:30
D-day #2 2/26/09
Filed for the big D

Posts: 619 | Registered: Mar 2009
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 8:48 PM, May 27th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Eternaloptimist -
I remember reading that an over-achieving spouse paves the way for infidelity/sex addiction because it allows the addict to disconnect from the family without any negative consequences. Everything still runs smoothly because the over-achieving spouse is taking care of it. Not a justification or blame, but an explanation. That was certainly the case in my situation. The less we all demanded of my husband, the less he contributed...and the less he felt "needed", the more he felt sorry for himself and unappreciated, etc. etc. Vicious circle.

Thank you for that. I never really looked at that before, and it is 100% correct. The more my WS would withdraw from family duties, the more I would work hard to take up the slack. Breeding resentment on my part, and apathy on his. So bad, to the point of my parents coming over, and my mother commenting on why is he sitting on his a$$ while I am running around like a chicken without a head, taking care of everything all the time. He would act depressed, or tell me to slow down and relax; meantime, there were bills to get out, our business to run, kids to run errands with, housecleaning, supper to make, groceries to buy, and he would be sitting watching TV! He would start a project, then hit the couch. And never finish it. (And now, I am left with half a dozen unfinished projects, that he has abandoned me with).

Lesson learned. If I ever get another partner, they will pull their weight, or hit the door running.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14914 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 8:56 PM, May 27th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Broken -
Why isn't losing me enough? It hurts that the end of our marriage isn't bottom for him.

Wow, I wrestled with this question for months. and months. And posted on here, and asked everyone I knew--his family is totally livid with him, because my mil and sil both love me, and have told me over and over I am the best thing that ever happened to him. He has said that himself.

But, I realize now, he cannot love me, in that kind of a healthy way. He does love me, and I am sure your H does love you, but the fear is stronger.

Fear is a base instinct, and a strong motivating factor in many human behaviors. Some of us are strong enough to face fear head -on, and some of us just can't do it. Ever.

Our SAh's are afraid. They are afraid of confronting themselves. They are afraid of facing the REAL truth. They are afraid of destroying the carefully constructed facade that they spent their entire lives building. For some of them, they feel it would totally destroy them. I am convinced that my SAh has decided that if he had to give up all the lies and falsehoods he has based his entire existence on, there would be no him left. He doesn't really know who he is, and what is inside. He is afraid to find out. He is totally convinced there is some pretty bad stuff in there, so he does his best to hide from it, and show others his "good" side, and be the KISA for as many people as he can, so he does not have to face the "bad" side.

Looking me in the face, now that I know the truth, makes him face himself. And it is too painful and scary. That is why they run.

[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 8:59 PM, May 27th (Wednesday)]


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14914 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
Stop
♂ Member
Member # 23564
Default  Posted: 9:35 PM, May 27th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Naiveagain,

Great post! I often think my SA wife is trying very hard to avoid the woman she fears. The woman she thinks other people see. The women she thinks she is. When all she has to do is act like the woman she wants to be. And she will be her instead.

Amazingly simple but not for them I guess.


Me: Recovering codependent BH
Her: Long term gambling addict, unadmitted,unrepentant,practicing sex addict.
I didn't cause it, I can't control it, I can't fix it.
"Healing starts when you start taking care of yourself and let go of

Posts: 90 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: Midwest
hoping2heal
♀ Member
Member # 16738
Default  Posted: 6:15 AM, May 28th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Many of us have asked why the end of the M isn't "rock bottom" for our SAs or why they can not empathize with the destruction they have caused.

The simplified reason is because they CAN'T. They were hurt in some way during their formative years (ages 0-6) and that trauma developed their warped filters and views on life. Any time something triggers that hurt, it's that inner child feeling the pain and choosing how to cope with it -- not his/her ADULT self. Just like with PTSD, the trauma causes an unhealthy pathway in the brain.

It's been very difficult for me to accept that, but having PTSD myself and seeing the warped thinking that can create, I can empathize with the SAs.

In order for TRUE healing to happen, the SAs need to "reconfigure" their inner child so that they can learn healthy coping skills. You can tell someone they are unhealthy until you are blue in the face. They cannot truly do anything about it until they realize that themselves. And the sad truth is, there are many who, regardless of the circumstances, just CANNOT ever see that for themselves. In a way, it's almost like that inner child is STILL being emotionally abused. An unless they can stand up for themselves, say, "ENOUGH, I'm not going to take it anymore", they will continue to live in that abusive cycle.


BS (me) - 38
FWH - 38
4 kids
'98 - PA/EA resulted in us separating
'06 - discovered he'd joined 6 married dating websites
'07 - discovered EA
'09 - FWH admits he's a sex addict -- now working on recovery!

Posts: 1762 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: Central Florida
Katty
♀ New Member
Member # 23231
Default  Posted: 6:38 AM, May 28th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Eternaloptomist certainly hit it on the head in that post! My H is the most self centred person i have ever met. He is sweet and caring and kind and a great person to be with but when you stand back and look at his behaviour he acts a certain way so that he is seen too be a great husband by the outside world. The example of behavour when a friend has died (thinking only of the effect it has on them) is a classic one that I have experience with my H.

It has taken me years to see this clearly. When I met him he told me his ex had said he was a 'cold fish' which I found reall strange as he seemed so keen to share feelings with me. If only I had met this woman before we went any further!!!!

I am sure my H picked me because I was a high achiever/high earner with my own home and life. This allowed him to not worry about his actions as I would not be affected by them in any physical way. Now i am not working he is a differnt man....

Next week I start a temporary job (in the same company as his!) so we shall see.

Us partners try so hard to understand their motivations and behaviours. I know I am beginning to realise that he does not THINK he just ACTS. I am trying to create/understandin/see deep meaning in a situation that has none just a selfish 'this is for me' act.


Me BS 48
Him WS 53 (Although he never admits to more than 49 on AFF etc..)Are they blind these people???
No children
Together 9 years
DDay #1 six months in
DDay #2 six months later
DDay #3 you get the picture

Posts: 22 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: UK
broken11
♀ Member
Member # 23277
Default  Posted: 6:46 AM, May 28th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fear is a base instinct, and a strong motivating factor in many human behaviors. Some of us are strong enough to face fear head -on, and some of us just can't do it. Ever
.

I think what is so frustrating is my husband keeps telling me things like he is finally facing his truth after all these years and it's scary, but our marriage can't be saved. He sounds so close to getting it, but he isn't truly committed and I can tell that. I think it's actually just an act for him right now so he can live with himself. He is doing the bare minimum, but not truly trying to change. It breaks my heart.

I haven't talked to him in a few days and I just checked our cell bill and he hasn't used his phone at all. I'm feeling anxious. I suspect he has another phone, but it's strange for him not to use his main one. He has never gone a day without it. It makes me so sad because if something happened to him I don't know if anyone would tell me or know to tell me.

They were hurt in some way during their formative years (ages 0-6) and that trauma developed their warped filters and views on life


As far as I know my husband had a very happy childhood until his dad cheated on and left his mom when my WH was 19.

I'm off to another job interview. Wish me luck.

[This message edited by broken11 at 6:55 AM, May 28th (Thursday)]


Me: BW 30
WH:30
D-day #2 2/26/09
Filed for the big D

Posts: 619 | Registered: Mar 2009
JustWow
♀ Member
Member # 19636
Default  Posted: 7:07 AM, May 28th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Broken:

As far as I know my husband had a very happy childhood until his dad cheated on and left his mom when my WH was 19.

The thing is, if he has a history of abuse or neglect, he might not even think he does. Now my H, and all of his many, many siblings were physically and emotionally abused as kids. It was just too big of an elephant for anyone to pretend it wasn't in the room.

But it took some time in therapy for my H to realize he had been sexually abused as well. His perp was his closest in age brother, the one he was closest to emotionally. His brother was supposed to be part of the pack against Dad, not someone who hurt him. H completely minimized the sexual abuse. According to Carnes, many, many men do.

I'm not saying your H was sexually abused, I guess I'm just trying to say that until he ever gets into IC to try to fix his behavior, his distorted thinking can work in how he recollects his past as well as how he lives his present. That is part of the "shock" of SA I think. These guys don't even know themselves and what makes them tick, so how in the world can we?

Good luck with that interview, BTW!!

[This message edited by JustWow at 7:08 AM, May 28th (Thursday)]


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3556 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
innerstrength
♀ Member
Member # 19540
Default  Posted: 7:16 AM, May 28th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello everyone! It's been really busy on here! I have so much more to go back and catch up on- Things IRL have been really busy too...

But....

I want to wish Broken11 good luck on her interview... Clear your head (easier said than done, I know) and show them how great you are! You're going to do great!

To everyone else- You guys are awesome! Such great advice, and such great support for everyone here. I am so happy I found all of you here-

(((HUGS)))


Me: BS
Him: WS,SA
D-Day #1: 10/22/05
D-Day #2: 4/27/08
In R, LOTS of counseling this time!
I'm finding out day by day how strong I can be... I wish I never had to get to this self-discovery...

Posts: 189 | Registered: May 2008
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