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User Topic: Npd Thread Part V II
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 6:18 PM, March 24th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WB2,
It seems the same with your situation too. NPD's just don't seem to be able to have a "normal" relationship with anyone unless THEY are the CONSTANT center of attention.

I think that's why in the beginning of a relationship they seem to do fine. All (most) relationships start off pretty intense so everyone is getting lots of attention and (usually) lots of sex, phone calls, texts, emails, whatever.

In NORMAL relationships, life matures, people mature, relationships mature and the relationship moves on into different stages. You start focusing more on your careers, you get married, you become focused on starting a family, you buy a home. Then along the road, life happens. Kids get sick, family members get sick, sometimes family members die, people lose jobs, other matters in life demand your time and attention. When you're married to someone "normal" they usually support you during these difficult times and even help out. But when you're married to an NPD, it's an entirely different situation.

When you're married to an NPD and your dealing with everyday life you can't count on your NPD partner to be there for you. What you CAN count on is your NPD stomping around acting like a freakin' baby because it's not all about him at the moment. . If he's not doing that and is seemingly being supportive, you can bet he's acting out his "what about me" actions in other ways.

NPD's are notorious for being terrible parents. Again being in a relationship when it's not "all about them" is impossible for them. How do you have a relationship with a child when you're trying to make it all about you??? The only time an NPD can SEEM like a good parent is when they are USING the child to get attention for themselves. But most of the time, NPD's are seething with jealously against their own children. Sick, huh?

Then they are so screwed up in the head about sex, some seem to have a weird Madonna/Whore type complex. In the beginning they see their wives as these wonderful sexual beings, but then once the children come it's like they see their wives now as THEIR OWN mother or something.

Then they hate US because they are so f'ed in the head. Hmm...makes sense to me....

It's so weird.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7927 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
NotSoLuckyNEMore
♀ Member
Member # 21321
Default  Posted: 4:08 PM, March 26th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Holy Cow!!
I just found this thread! I also, just found out I have an NPDH. I filled for divorce on Tues, just waiting til he's served now. He doesn't know. I'm going crazy waiting and pretending all is well. Not really doing such a good job on that. He's noticing my distance, and wants to talk. Well screw that! I'll wait til all hell actually breaks loose instead of letting him know. Either way it's gonna be a shit storm. So glad I found you guys here!! Wish me luck!!


It should absolutely kill you dead when you find out the one you love doesn't love you the same. But...unfortunately it doesn't.

Posts: 171 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Iowa
Heartless Bytchh
♀ Member
Member # 12347
Default  Posted: 9:54 PM, March 26th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Something for my tribe here.

http://dslweb.nwnexus.com/jmashmun/npd/

I'm going to check it out.


Woodchipper pretty much trumps everything.-Rufus Turner
Sometimes I feel like SI is that person who says... "if you can't say anything nice... come sit by me!"-rumorhasit

Posts: 6061 | Registered: Oct 2006 | From: Another day in Paradise
woundedby2
♀ Member
Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 1:48 PM, March 27th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey, HB! Funny, I was just reading on that woman's site a few days back and posted some things for one of the newbies here. I really like her attitude! She sounds like us - LOL!

My assclown has been pretty much silent since he got the dressing-down from the judge a couple weeks ago. I hope this will continue. The peace has been wonderful.

NotSoLucky -- I'm glad you found out about NPD and this thread. I hope you have been able to go back and read through some of the older NPD Threads as well. It is such a relief to know that you are not alone in this -- and that you are not crazy! The more you understand about NPD, the better able you are to deal with their bat shit crazy behaviors.


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7635 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
lied2
♀ Member
Member # 1807
Default  Posted: 8:39 PM, March 29th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome NSL

Not telling him is a wise idea because then he can't dodge service. My ex has done that a few times just to be difficult and cost me more money.

Be sure to protect yourself as necessary if he is going to be vengeful


The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It is astro turf.

The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.


A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.


Posts: 8196 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Ontario, Canada
NotSoLuckyNEMore
♀ Member
Member # 21321
Default  Posted: 10:08 PM, April 4th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just got my first boo hoo email, about how much he loves me and doesn't want a divorce, blah, blah, blah. Man it's a good one!! It sounds so real, except he left out anything about what he'd do for me, or how he'd change...
I need strength!! It's late, I always get sappy at night!


It should absolutely kill you dead when you find out the one you love doesn't love you the same. But...unfortunately it doesn't.

Posts: 171 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Iowa
veritas
♀ Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 10:01 AM, April 7th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is not directed at anyone; nor is it confined to NPD situations but in a lot of situations here:

Malignant Optimism

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal27.html

I often come across sad examples of the powers of self-delusion that the narcissist provokes in his victims. It is what I call "malignant optimism". People refuse to believe that some questions are unsolvable, some diseases incurable, some disasters inevitable. They see a sign of hope in every fluctuation. They read meaning and patterns into every random occurrence, utterance, or slip. They are deceived by their own pressing need to believe in the ultimate victory of good over evil, health over sickness, order over disorder. Life appears otherwise so meaningless, so unjust and so arbitrary...

So, they impose upon it a design, progress, aims, and paths. This is magical thinking.

"If only he tried hard enough", "If he only really wanted to heal", "If only we found the right therapy", "If only his defences were down", "There MUST be something good and worthy under the hideous facade", "NO ONE can be that evil and destructive", "He must have meant it differently" "God, or a higher being, or the spirit, or the soul is the solution and the answer to our prayers".


The Pollyanna defences of the abused are aimed against the emerging and horrible understanding that humans are specks of dust in a totally indifferent universe, the playthings of evil and sadistic forces, of which the narcissist is one - as well as against the unbearable realization that their pain means nothing to anyone but themselves. Nothing whatsoever. It has all been in vain.

The narcissist holds such thinking in barely undisguised contempt. To him, it is a sign of weakness, the scent of prey, a gaping vulnerability. He uses and abuses this human need for order, good, and meaning - as he uses and abuses all other human needs. Gullibility, selective blindness, malignant optimism - these are the weapons of the beast. And the abused are hard at work to provide it with its arsenal.


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:08 PM, April 7th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dissecting Sam. (and why he should be taken with salt)

They are deceived by their own pressing need to believe in the ultimate victory of good over evil,
Sorry sam, good and evil are “a priori”. That is, they do not depend on my belief for their existence. Nice try. I’m glad you got that out there first though…it shortens my *need* to expose the fallacy of the rest. Ummm…that is to say, you’re deceived. I don’t think there’s a pill for that. But I can use simple words. How’s that?

They see a sign of hope in every fluctuation. They read meaning and patterns into every random occurrence, utterance, or slip.
Ipso loquitor bullshit sam. Just because you don’t see patterns, don’t mean none exist. (oh! And just because I can’t completely identify the pattern, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist either. Check!)

They are deceived by their own pressing need to believe in the ultimate victory of good over evil
Actually sam, the multiplicative properties of + (good) and – (evil) prove that good triumphs mathematically:
I’ll suss it out for ya buddy!
+ times + = +
+ times - = -
-times - = +
See? + wins 2/3rds of the time! That was easy. But go on ahead with with your bad self, belief in Good is pollyan-ish! You n her wasn’t so good at maf huh?

The narcissist holds such thinking in barely undisguised contempt. To him, it is a sign of weakness,
Indeed! It is the holding of such ignorances as certainties that the willfully blind use...

to raise their histrionic ire.



Posts: 6023 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 10:05 PM, April 7th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The interesting thing about the Narcissist is that he/she wouldn't survive or thrive very well without the NPD supply or the enablers.

My brother is a narcissist and he has completely destroyed our entire family. My father wanted so desperately for the "family business" to continue that he has allowed my brother to be a full partner without ever doing a days work. (The business could only be passed down to a male heir. (my father is probably NPD too.)

My brother lives and acts like he is amazingly sucessful when he's never, EVER worked a full days work in his life. His wife doesn't work either. She is busy being a pretend socialite. (In reality it's a complete joke)

In the mean time, my parents (who are in their 70's) continue to work 60 hours a week to run the business AND in their spare time they babysit my spoiled brother and his wife's children so they can go socialize. It's insane.

Then to top it off, my brother and his wife have not spoke to me or my other two sisters for years. They have told horrible lies about all of us in an attempt to get our parents to turn against us girls.

My brother and his wife won't show up for holidays, birthdays, or other family events. They ruin every holiday and my mother cries and carries on because she can't enjoy the family that does show up, she just focuses on the ones that are destroying everything.

My parents pay my brothers salary, they pay their mortgage, they have bought cars for their kids, they have placed their children in a higher status than the other grandchildren because "these" grandchildren will be part of the family business.

If my sisters or I dare say anything about how my brother treats us OR how they treat our parents, WE are the bad ones, not my brother or his wife.

What my parents don't seem to understand is if they would just cut them off and FORCE them to be resposible adults, things might be different. Like maybe if they insist that my brother show up for work. Fire him if he doesn't. Wow, what a concept...

Until society, parents, spouses, and other enablers STOP rewarding these NPD's for their bad behavior, it's just going to continue to get worse.

JMHO


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7927 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
veritas
♀ Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 10:36 PM, April 7th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Until society, parents, spouses, and other enablers STOP rewarding these NPD's for their bad behavior, it's just going to continue to get worse.

JMHO

Not to mention that you do yourself no favors. The longer you stay with a narcissist, the more shell-shocked and damaged you become. Even after I left my narcissist, it took me a while to get out of the mindset of taking care of him -- and guess what? He continued to screw me over and disrespect me. Every. Single. Time. It was purely vindictive and evil, even as he tried to rationalize everything he did as part of the game.


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 11:03 PM, April 7th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

V,
As usual, you are absolutely right!


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7927 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:31 PM, April 8th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Didn't make it clear enough, I should add on,
sadtoo's description contains NONE of the condescension (sam so lacks :))....o, and is therefore so more touching which was the POINT of the post.
RUN. (which I myself did not pay attention to,) Maybe said in different ways will spur supply (tribe) who's had congress w NPD.

Run because you need to keep yourself (amongst other things)

Sorry, I trigger to one who'd so sneer at supply...you, and get protective and ranty. he is not the source, we are.

[This message edited by jjct at 7:33 PM, April 8th (Thursday)]


Posts: 6023 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 7:44 PM, April 8th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

J,
I wasn't necessarily replying to your post. It just got me thinking.

Plus I have to add, I'm not a big fan of Sam V either. He is a self proclaimed N and maybe even self diagnosed. I think he has used that "status" as a way to gain more attention for himself.

Personally I find the guy a little creepy as I do most N's.

[This message edited by sadtoo at 7:45 PM, April 8th (Thursday)]


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7927 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
Nicole5
♀ Member
Member # 17794
Default  Posted: 11:14 PM, April 8th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Even a broken clock is right twice a day

I have read every bit of material there is to find on the subject. Imho, Sam V has some things right, but I do find him lacking in understanding the non NPD partner except when he talks about what a thankless job it is.

That, it is, indeed!


divorced my WH on Nov 4, 2011
(see my profile for "the story")


Posts: 338 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: TX
veritas
♀ Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 8:13 AM, April 9th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Plus I have to add, I'm not a big fan of Sam V either. He is a self proclaimed N and maybe even self diagnosed. I think he has used that "status" as a way to gain more attention for himself.

I think he was diagnosed in prison. He was arrested for fraud. I find him a little creepy myself But however much I might dislike the way he said it, there's more than a grain of truth in it. Think about our relationships. Suppose you had a child who was going through that kind of relationship, would you tell them to be optimistic and look for happy patterns instead of focusing on the negative? You probably wouldn't, because in your sane, rational mind, you know that it's wrong. But the NPD manipulates you to a point of acceptance where you continue that dance long after it's apparent that they are poisonous, cancerous beings, and it really isn't until you're away from them that you realize just how much of yourself you suppressed, how much toxicity you endured, and how little it took toward the end to keep on hoping.

And that's the one thing I give Sam V credit for, is that he doesn't sugarcoat what will happen to you if you stay with a narcissist and what kinds of thought processes you will need to adopt. Knowing this, so many of us continue to stay with NPD's, or immediately drop our defenses once we are away from them. We continue to convince ourselves that we can either change them, or be tough enough to endure the crap a narcissist flings out, which is total BS. The best thing to do with a narcissist is to run. Period. Maybe not this minute, or this day, or this week, because leaving with a plan is the absolute best thing to do, but soon.


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:40 PM, April 9th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The best thing to do with a narcissist is to run. Period. Maybe not this minute, or this day, or this week, because leaving with a plan is the absolute best thing to do, but soon.

There is more here than samboy can even encompass.
That he puts himself out there as the authority...and that many are led...chaps my britches...

Who you are is positive. You are supply. That is why you are here. I would do nothing, say nothing to change that essential good nature of your self. Honor it instead!

He's not creepy "just because". There's a reason.

The struggle, the pain, all of it, the money to get rid of them, the watching as they use others (even their own innocent children!) -
all of it, will testify at the end.
I cling to this as a certainty...much like the widow, who dared touch just a hem. I will not tolerate, and will remove the ventlid off any attempt to make you seem less than the best best best ones. The ones that truth says - when it will be told- you are.

tenacious clinging-
to the hem of His cloak.
just one touch
gathered the fabric
of words that He spoke

and wrestle like jacob
I'm not letting go
through broken-heart tempests
though tears freely flow

I'm minded of Jesus
His death on the tree
his side pouring water
life's blood out for me

the world can't contain
all the books that'd be wrote
His healing, the dead raise,
the lonely sorrow worn coat

so hiding in Him now
stumble finish the race
and trembling the hand grips
a thread of His grace.


Posts: 6023 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
lied2
♀ Member
Member # 1807
Default  Posted: 3:20 PM, April 10th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I remember reading someplace that Sam V actually admits that he writes to get supply and admiration. He does seem to have some real insight into NPD but I have to wonder if he lacks some insight because if he really does have the disorder the whole introspection thing is pretty broken so the only way he could 'understand' is to see it in someone else but there again they really can empathize either.

However, what he manages to write about NPD it does seem to be pretty accurate.

It is so hard to RUN from people like this but oh so necessary. I only wish I had heeded that wise advice soon rather than later.


The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It is astro turf.

The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.


A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.


Posts: 8196 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Ontario, Canada
veritas
♀ Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, April 12th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It is so hard to RUN from people like this but oh so necessary. I only wish I had heeded that wise advice soon rather than later.

It's a process. I went back and looked at my posts from a couple of years ago in this thread, and even though I had my mind set on divorce and was in a lot of emotional anguish, I was still hesitating and hedging my bets. I'm much calmer and much surer of my convictions now, but it took me a while to get there.


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
Really?!?
♀ Member
Member # 28268
Default  Posted: 6:39 PM, April 16th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi everyone,

I'm new here. My big long story is here http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=351137, but the short version is that D-day was March 23, 2010. We started MC and the dr diagnosed WH with NPD within 5 minutes of meeting him. We are continuing MC and he is doing IC as we attempt R.

I saw the Narcissism Index in this thread and WH scored a 27.

I have to say that what I've read in this thread does not give me much hope. Although, WH has never been violent at all, he's more absent, as though he doesn't realize there are other people around him at all unless I confront him about something. But quite a bit of what I'm reading from others rings very true for me.

Right now WH is saying he is committed to counseling and will do whatever it takes to be better for the kids and I, but I just don't know how long it will last before he goes back to his old ways. Right now I feel like an empty shell of a person and I'm not sure I want to wait to find out if it works.


Me: BS-30
WH/NPD-31 EA & PA lasting 2 months
Married 5 yrs
3 Kids: 13 (from a prev relationship), 3 and 1
D-Day: March 23, 2010
"My mistake. I didn't know to be in love you had to fight to have the upper hand." -Taylor Swift

Posts: 129 | Registered: Apr 2010
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:51 PM, April 16th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Then don't wait.
Use this apparent sunshine time to do good for you first!
(((tribe))) you are if he's been officially diagnosed.

dia = 2
gnosis = to know

2 knowing. Here, you will find a quorum, a community, a family, a (((tribe))).
psychs say an NPD, feels like *this*, and a BPD borderline feels like *this*,
since there is 2 knowing, sounds like 2 agreeing to disagree lol

This means the DSM is not set in stone, is always changing, with many voices, as many of the stories attest.
And there are always bad C's.
Such a quick pronouncement?
O dammit jim!

If the C has indeed identified him truly? You will find alot of help on here.
welcome.
and prayers from me.


Posts: 6023 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
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