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User Topic: Npd Thread Part V II
MaleableReality
♀ Member
Member # 22451
Default  Posted: 3:25 PM, January 26th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@sick_of_the_lies --- OH MY GOD we are married to the same person!!! Maybe we really are?? I am serious. You describe him perfectly. LOL. I was laughing out loud with some of the stuff you described and the kicker is that I too felt like I must be crazy. I'd say NPD. Have you picked up any books on the subject? That's when I started to really see clearly - of course he was out of the house and living with his whore by then. LOL

(((maleablereality)))


Posts: 64 | Registered: Jan 2009
sick_of_the_lies
♀ Member
Member # 26961
Default  Posted: 4:38 PM, January 26th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Maleable, no, I haven't read any of the books. I read one on passive-agressives, which fit to an extent, but not entirely. But I have to say, that one gave me some real insight into the fact that he is not normal. And yes, that was after he moved out to "get some space and figure out how to do what he needed to do." I think even just distance helps to see what is going on--realizing how much easier things are without him around fighting everything and making life harder was a real eye-opener.

Of course, I say that, and still have that little twinge where I think maybe now he's finally on the level and I should give him another shot. It's crazy, especially since I know that I don't want to keep doing this. Even our MC told me that he could not be fixed--20 years of the best therapy might, at best, make him 3% better. Can you tell he pissed off the MC?

And hey, he very well could be the same man--I would put nothing past him. Hell, he would probably marry us both in a joint ceremony and then try to convince each of us that we were crazy, he hadn't just married two women. I can hear it now. "No, baby, someone must have doctored those wedding photos. I have no idea where that other woman in a wedding dress came from, the photographer must be out to get me."


Posts: 113 | Registered: Dec 2009
MaleableReality
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Member # 22451
Default  Posted: 8:41 PM, January 26th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hell, he would probably marry us both in a joint ceremony and then try to convince each of us that we were crazy, he hadn't just married two women. I can hear it now. "No, baby, someone must have doctored those wedding photos. I have no idea where that other woman in a wedding dress came from, the photographer must be out to get me."

I literally just peed a little!!

[This message edited by MaleableReality at 8:41 PM, January 26th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 64 | Registered: Jan 2009
capri
♀ Member
Member # 14940
Default  Posted: 8:52 PM, January 26th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

sick of the lies, your husband sounds an awful lot like mine, too, except mine doesn't break things.

Veritas, thanks for the other npd inventory.


Me: free of the secrets and lies!!!
Divorced 10/2011

Posts: 4483 | Registered: Jun 2007
capri
♀ Member
Member # 14940
Default  Posted: 8:55 PM, January 26th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Since once they're in your life (and taking from you) and it's difficult to get them out, it may be helpful to know how to identify them early. To do so, try using The Narcissist Inventory* rating the person on a 1-to-3 scale (1 = rarely; 2 = sometimes; 3 = frequently):


1.How often does the person need to be right at all costs? 3

2.How often does the person act impatient with you for no good reason? 1

3.How often does the person interrupt you in the middle of what you're saying, and yet take offense if you interrupt? 2

4.How often does the person expect you to drop whatever you're thinking about and listen to him or her--and does the person take offense when you expect the same in return? 1

5.How often does the person talk more than he or she listens? 3

6.How often does the person say "Yes, but," "That's not true," "No," "However," or "Your problem is"? 3

7.How often does the person resist and resent doing something that matters to you, just because it's inconvenient? 2

8.How often does the person expect you to cheerfully do something that's inconvenient for you? 1

9.How often does the person expect you to accept behavior that he or she would refuse to accept from you? 3

10.How often does the person fail to say "Thank you," "I'm sorry," "Congratulations," or "Excuse me" when it's called for? 3

To score your inventory, add up the total:
10-16 =The person is cooperative
17-23 = The person is argumentative
24-30 = The person is a narcissist

FWH gets a 22. Funny, he wouldn't consider himself argumentative at all. If I'd done this a few years ago, before I blew up at him and he changed some behaviors, the score would probably have put him in the npd range.


Me: free of the secrets and lies!!!
Divorced 10/2011

Posts: 4483 | Registered: Jun 2007
capri
♀ Member
Member # 14940
Default  Posted: 8:56 PM, January 26th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

veritas, interesting comment in the article that the npd partner sleeps well. I have always been amazed that while I'm suffering from insomnia for months on end, he appears to be sleeping like a baby.


Me: free of the secrets and lies!!!
Divorced 10/2011

Posts: 4483 | Registered: Jun 2007
sick_of_the_lies
♀ Member
Member # 26961
Default  Posted: 8:59 PM, January 26th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Capri, it's amazing, how similar these stories are, isn't it?

I hate to keep whining about my idiot WH, but I had to get this out.

So, WH had some success at his job today. Since we are still, in theory, in R, I told him congrats, good for him, etc, and asked what his plans were for celebrating. He wanted to go to dinner. So he shows up, and we go to dinner. We spend the ENTIRE time talking about his day, I ask him questions, tell him congrats, etc. As we are leaving, I see someone important to my mother, I think, but it's been so long I am not sure. So he suggests I use his phone to call my mom and ask her about him, which I do.

Apparently, those 3 minutes spent on something else were too much, because we get back to the house and he starts complaining about how I didn't congradulate him or ask him questions, and he should know that this is just who I am, I always ruin things for him, I never do anything for him, on and on.

So I told him that he was wrong, I had done all those things, I was sorry if somehow it wasn't exactly the words he wanted, but if he wanted to tell me what he needed to hear, I would do that in the future. He continued to tell me that he knew I hadn't done those things, even though I clearly had, and continued to talk about how horrible I was. Apparently, my tone lacked the correct tenor of enthusiasm befitting such a king. I told him I wasn't going to sit there and let him rewrite history again, and if he was going to continue to say such things, he needed to leave. So he did, furious. Apparently, this is proof that things aren't working for him, and it's too late (8:00) for him to come back and try to celebrate, I have to do it tomorrow.

I know he's rewriting history to give himself an excuse to continue to keep up his A (which he claims is long over), and probably concocted this story so that he could go home and tell the MOW how horrible I am and have her fawn all over him.

What bothers me is how crazy the whole thing still makes me feel. I KNOW I did those things, I KNOW he's making up his own truth, but it still makes me feel crazy and wrong.

And hey, I just realized this meets another one of those criteria--no amount of praise, short of a ticker tape parade, is good enough for him.


Posts: 113 | Registered: Dec 2009
sadtoo
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Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 11:10 PM, January 26th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sadly, I could go on, but I’d be amazed to find anyone is still reading this. So, for those of you with some experience in this matter, what do you think? NPD?

Yes.

And the more you write, the more I think he is.

He is so incredibly focused on himself, it's unbelievable. But see? It wouldn't have mattered if you did spend the entire night talking about him and his job and you never ran into your mom's friend.

At the end of the day, you still would have done something wrong. There is simply not enough praise, compliments, love, money, you name it that will ever be enough. You didn't say it right, you didn't look at him right when you said it, you weren't smiling.....Ugh.

As far as the violence goes, if he's throwing things and breaking YOUR things, he's violent. Mine only broke my things too. He only became MORE violent toward the end.

Once he was out of the house, he was a complete lunatic on the loose.

One thing that all of you newbies need to realize while you're struggling with trying to decide if your WH's are NPD is that while you are still in the marriage and sometimes even when you are newly seperated is that you are possibly not seeing things real clear.

You have been (best case) very emotionally abused and have had your thinking altered to the point that your actions and words are all formulated around what he may or may not do. When you live with an NPD, it's all about survival and trying to keep the peace. It's not always about keeping them from beating you up, but their constant bitching, ranting and raging and complaining about everything will grate on strongest of will. You get to the point where you just want him to SHUT UP.

So keep this in mind while struggling through your discovery and give yourself a break. This is alot to absorb and you didn't get to where you are in your relationship with your WS/NPD over night. Most of us would say that we would NEVER have imagined ourselves in the position we have found ourselves in and if we had, "we'd have thrown him out" or "walked long ago." But that is easier said than done. Because it doesn't happen overnight. It happens by conditioning. Sometimes it can be shocking and even embarassing to look back at what we have tolerated and even suffered at the hands of our NPD's. So we say to ourselves, maybe he's not really THAT bad....

Chances are he IS that bad and then some. You have probably developed some survival mechanism that has helped you deal with the craziness that has been going on in your life.

Keep posting!

[This message edited by sadtoo at 11:17 PM, January 26th (Tuesday)]


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7927 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
ScribblingMum
♀ Member
Member # 20097
Default  Posted: 11:33 PM, January 26th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hugs to you ALL...
I usually hang in Div/Sep or new Begin...but lord knows I belong here, also...sigh.

I think maybe the Pathological LYING is the most destructive thing of ALL. Ya know they say that those addicts (my WH is a sex addict, among other shet)...that CANNOT constitutionaly or otherwise do NOT have the capacity to be HONEST probably cannot get sober.
So sad.

I know this thread is dealing w/ NPD spouses, but usually these personality disorders are "comorbid" meaning they usually co-exist w/ other mental disorders. MY WH is NPD/Anti-Social PD/AD/HD..& most of all, probably BORDERLINE or Bipolar...though docs are leaning toward Borderline--even though they didn't USED to knowmuch about Borderline...
The best book EVER on Mental Disorders, NPD, Borderline, etc. is that book I mentioned before: EVIL GENES.....it is absolutely phenomenal ...hope some of you can find it in your library or buy it---very, very informative.

Anyone else read it here?


~ScribblingMum~
D-D 1: 12/23/06 - Porn (dd bust him on-line)
D-D 2: 4-25-08 - Massage P.'s(new act. in pretend recov.)
D-D 3:9-9-08 Caught call m. girl
D-Day 4: 6/30/09 -: free MP g.f./prost.
D-Day 5: 1-10-10: new mp prost's.
~DONE!


Posts: 1529 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: S .CALIF.
lied2
♀ Member
Member # 1807
Default  Posted: 1:11 AM, January 27th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I want to get that evil genes book but it is out at the library.

The way I think about staying with someone who may have NPD and/or XY and Z is to ask

1. can they get better? and if so what will it take for them to do so and if they would actually do it?

2. can I live with them if they did not getting better?

These people are toxic to those around them. They do serious damage to everyone especially their SO.

Do you want that for your life not that you see things for what they are?

I have to say that sick_of_the_lies the more a read of your WS the more aweful he sounds. He is being violent breaking things, totally.

our MC told me that he could not be fixed--20 years of the best therapy might, at best, make him 3% better.

I had a psychiatrist tell me that my ex would not get better either. He was so right.

I love that quiz. IMHO my ex scored in the NPD range for sure. Mind you so do my teens much of the time, although not quite as bad. They are more in the argumentative range.

The whole getting away from them is important because not only does it help you see what is going on but it gives him less supply and he will very much devalue you and show his real colours. I know for me seeing the real him strengthened my resolve to divorce him.

Please whatever you do start making a safety plan for yourself in as many ways as you can. Look at physical, mental and financial safety because if things should start blowing up you have a way out. It sounds like there may well be more going on with him than you can see and some of what is happening is just a smoke screen.


The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It is astro turf.

The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.


A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.


Posts: 8196 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Ontario, Canada
sick_of_the_lies
♀ Member
Member # 26961
Default  Posted: 9:01 PM, January 29th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wanted to update, and maybe vent a little. So, filed for divorce. Told WH he had one night to come 100% clean. He "came clean," but neglected to address several lies I already knew about, so I filed. He then says he wants to come clean again, and I hear a new story (OW is happy with her husband again, wants to have another child, and when she told him that he ended contact because he was angry that her life was going so well and his so badly. And he couldn't keep doing this to me. He then tried to tell me that was the real reason--my feelings).

So, he "comes clean" last night, and I ask if any contact since he got upset because she didn't want him. Nope, none. Check his email today--lunch plans and emails from YESTERDAY AFTERNOON. He claims he forgot them when asked yesterday.

Seriously, does the crazy ever end?


Posts: 113 | Registered: Dec 2009
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 9:40 PM, January 29th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SOTL,
I finally got to the point when I had to realize that if I was ever going to learn any truth, it wasn't going to be from him. He just wasn't capable of the truth. It doesn't sound like yours is either.

I don't understand this type of lying. It's like John Edwards. Why not just tell the truth? Do they really think that they can keep this type of secret a secret for EVER? How long do they really think they can HIDE A BABY??? (JE and my XH) It's just craziness.

Pathalogical liars are just that. They are incapable of telling the truth. It's my opinion if you don't get away from them, they will drive you insane with their lies.

I'm sorry it has come to filing for divorce for you, but at least now you will find some peace and maybe even some clarity.

Good luck.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7927 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
lied2
♀ Member
Member # 1807
Default  Posted: 10:15 PM, January 29th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Seriously, does the crazy ever end?

With someone who is a pathological liar and/or NPD no the crazy doesn't does stop. The old way to get peace is to get away from them.

My ex still lies, just to the wifetress mostly. He also lies to my kids and they no longer trust him for the lost part or expect him to hold up his end of a anything.

As for why they lie, I am sure there are as many reasons as there are lies.

You are not the cause of the lies and you are not the only one that is being lied to.


The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It is astro turf.

The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.


A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.


Posts: 8196 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Ontario, Canada
veritas
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Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 9:28 AM, February 2nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The crazy does not end! Just last week, dickhead was wanting to take a firsthand look at the taxes to figure out what was most beneficial, even though he has no right to claim the kids without my say so. His lawyer was afraid to call him because he had pitched such a fit about the child support that he feared for his safety.

So what did I get last night? "I'm cooking at the L****** for the Carencro parade. I'd love for you and the kids to be there. I got my W2."

Insanity, stupidity -- WTH does he think I will sit around and play happy family with him?


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
capri
♀ Member
Member # 14940
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, February 3rd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"Why does he think I'll sit around and play happy family with him?"

Veritas-- those are words I need to hear. It's exactly like my husband. We can have a massive fight, he can admit to screwing another woman, and an hour later, he's acting like nothing happened.

I've been thinking about the entitlement thing. I've always considered his spending habits just poor spending habits, not thinking. But the way he keeps buying himself anything he wants, can't even drop the kids off to school half a mile away without going and buying himself a latte, even when he could get home and make himself coffee quicker, and he spends probably well over $100 a month on lattes as it is-- is this a display of the sense of entitlement that is talked about in the list of symptoms of NPD?


Me: free of the secrets and lies!!!
Divorced 10/2011

Posts: 4483 | Registered: Jun 2007
lied2
♀ Member
Member # 1807
Default  Posted: 9:41 PM, February 3rd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It can be a sign of entitlement expecially if he doesn't have the money for it and someone else ends up having to sacrifice on something as a result.

It is like my ex spending hundreds of $$ on cellphone to the OW when he was unemployed and was telling me that he was out looking for a job. He was freaking that I spent anything at all even on groceries while blowing money. He felt he was entitled to spend what he wanted. It is also the same freakout that he does over the fact that he has to CS. He feels he should be entitled to just walk away and since he chooses to not see the kids should not pay anything either. He deserves all his money for him and his new life.


The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It is astro turf.

The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.


A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.


Posts: 8196 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Ontario, Canada
capri
♀ Member
Member # 14940
Default  Posted: 10:40 PM, February 3rd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, lied2. I wonder if I'm finally seeing clearly, things that I previously dismissed as careless with time, or not seeing how his spending added up, or even recognized as double standards. He had me scurrying home from work and errands, because he kicked up such a fuss if I was late, yet stayed out for hours on end, himself. He worried that I might be out visiting other men (which is why he was upset about me ever being 5 minutes late), but went out and visited other women. He used to get upset that I wrote my private thoughts in a journal-- but obviously felt entitled to write his private thoughts to another woman for years on end.

Yes, he does spend $ we don't have. We are thousands of dollars in debt. When we get the tax refund, he takes it and does as he pleases with it. When we get Christmas money, I save mine or spend it on the family; he buys something expensive with his.


Me: free of the secrets and lies!!!
Divorced 10/2011

Posts: 4483 | Registered: Jun 2007
debbied
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Member # 25354
Default  Posted: 3:49 AM, February 12th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

[This message edited by debbied at 5:22 AM, February 14th (Sunday)]


Posts: 620 | Registered: Aug 2009
all done
♂ New Member
Member # 27488
Default  Posted: 5:54 AM, February 13th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all,
This is a message of hope. I was involved with an NPD for ten years. Five years living with her and five years sustaining a relationship while living apart. have had it all: verbal abuse, physical assault (times many occasions), lies, infidelity, gaslighting, the Pohlice, the firebrigade, thereats of self harm, verbal abuse of my children, smearing of my character, a criminal assault conviction (against me FFS), individual therapy, couples therapy (two different therapists one of whom was a Zen Roshi as well as a counsellor). Had it all I say.

And still I loved her. Really.

Then, only just Saturday night after another bout of unpredicatable weirdness and cruelty from her I simply said "I want you to leave. Get dressed and go. Understand that I never will speak to you again". I meant it and she felt it too because her reaction was just unimaginable: it was like I'd cut an energy cord, she deflated, went pale, fell to the floor crying. I watched. She moved like something had been ripped out of her and off her - weird mechanical jerkiness, leaden weights on all her limbs. She dressed, I held the door open, and I've not heard a thing since and I know I wont. Total no conact: bought a new cell, bloked her emails, my daughter moved in to support me for week or so.

Over. Vampie vanquished. There is hope and life.

since then I've been to my meditation group, met old and new friends again and have not looked back.

Practice emotional detachment. Watch and observe how they enjoy our pain and feed on it and then cut it off when you are ready. Do not let go until you are ready and you will know that you sre ready when the thought of them makes you feel sick in the stomach or, as in my case, your scalp literally crawls.

Best wishes.


Posts: 7 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: Australia
tothineownself
♀ Member
Member # 20158
Default  Posted: 7:47 AM, February 15th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

All done-thanks for the post.
I wish I could get to where you are. I think I am part of the way down the road, but still have some to travel.
WH has just this past month "committed" to therapy.
(After an arrest for domestic battery, emergency order of protection, DCFS investigation and me filing for D.)
I am the type of person who will always give the other person a chance.
I do feel as though I don't have the strength for what I know will/should be years of therapy just so he might be able to "modify his behavior".

Question to all here- Has anyone's NPD partner had success and/or positive outcome from therapy?

I am supposed to meet with my lawyer today. I'm not sure how/if I should modify the OP.


”This above all: to thine ownself be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.”-Shakespeare-Hamlet
Forget the pants,( you weren't wearing them anyway!)
It's liar, liar SOUL's on FIRE!!

Posts: 54 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: illinois
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