It makes me mad that I turn to one of my negative behaviours when I find out he's using. Why kill myself with these behaviours because of his behaviour?
I've definitely reverted,too, and I know it's gotta stop.
He asked me if I really thought he was a sex addict. I said yes. I told him it wasn't his fault, that his dad was also, he didn't even know about his dad going to the doctor for penis enlargment (his mom tells me a lot of stuff). I asked him if he thought he was normal about sex. He said no, but he said I knew about that before. I asked him to get counseling. He said no. I told him this is not the kind of stuff you can fix on your own, you need the proper tools. He said I think he is some kind of monster. I told him no, I never said that, I just think he is a really good person with a problem. I told him a lot of people have this problem. I told him it is not normal to email a hooker asking for her price and giving out his phone number and name and location. I told him I felt he was exploring his options. He goes "Is that what you really think? I told you I was just bored" and I told him that normal bored guys don't email hookers. I told him since he told me he was angry with me, that he had figured if she called back, he could just try that out and I would never know and it wasn't important to him because it wasn't emotional to him. He goes again "that is really what you think" and I said yes. I told him it wasn't normal that he never wants to have normal sex, it always has to be out in public, or he wants other people. He told me that he was acting on MY fantasy. He can't even remember things right! I am the one that told him no, I don't want other people. That was his suggestion--I would never have a 3 way!!!! He misremembers stuff all the time. I know it is not me. Why can't he remember this stuff?
He told me I really hurt him bad when I told him he used to be my hero, but then when I found out about all that sex stuff, he wasn't as much. (That was back right after d-day). I told him he could be my hero again, if he would get help. He said again he was never going to counseling, and I asked him what he was afraid of. He wouldn't answer.
I asked him if I could read the survey from sexaholics anonymous to him so he could see if he was a sex addict. He said no, he doesn't want to hear it. I told him there is help and I just want us to have a normal, loving sex life. He called me Dr. Phil, and said just because I go to counseling doesn't make me a counselor, and I have to analyze everything. I told him I know I am not a counselor, that is why I wanted him to take the test himself. And I am only working on our sex life, because that is the big problem between us. I told him I thought we did pretty good otherwise. He said we didn't, he was unhappy, he was sorry he got married.
He said he had enough of this crap for one night, and we said goodbye and hung up. I told him I still loved him. He said he didn't think I loved him, and I told him I wouldn't still be here if I didn't. I don't think there is any hope.
Why can't he remember this stuff?
I wonder the same about mine. Everything is so monumental to me, but to him it's just a blur of bodies. I have a lot of thoughts about that. Sometimes I think they live on some alternate plane of reality, sometimes I think they genuinely can't remember (I imagine it's hard to keep all that acting out straight), and sometimes I think it's plaine dishonesty.
[This message edited by lovedontlivehere at 5:27 AM, January 9th (Friday)]
Status: Struggling Everday to
what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another-Anatole France
I think he rewrites history to assuage his guilt. I think it is part of his "running" from himself. (Yes, dear, I am doing Dr Phil again) I can't help it--I have to make some sense of this insanity! Anyway, something that really struck me was when we were talking and he said "you think I'm this monster" blah blah blah. He has used that term before--I have NEVER used that term. Or anything close. I just told him there is a problem. He has internalized that, and I think he has been thinking he is a monster himself for a long time, I know he feels like he is a bad person. I keep trying to tell him he is a good person, with a problem. I might as well just smack my head on the concrete floor. I want to just give up, but I won't. But I'm scared of what tonight's phone call might bring.
[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 7:00 AM, January 9th (Friday)]
My WH is the Kung-Fu Master of 'running-away-from-himself!!! I've told him this for years. He uses the "You Think I'm this horrible-person (monster)" card with me too...it's blame-shifting and low self esteem and they try to throw it back on us.
Don't smack your head on concrete-that just hurts. I fell yesterday on the ice and my daughter fell the day before! I hope he thinks on things before he calls and can see YOU are trying and YOU are not the enemy and YOU didn't do this to the two of you! Wishing you good thoughts and the call tonight is HIS wake-up and get-his-shit-together call.
*and I PM'd ya again!
[This message edited by Newtwood at 9:02 AM, January 9th (Friday)]
Its been a while since I posted on SI. I have been going through this crazy ambivalent stage. I thought my WS was a SA, our MC confirmed this- and then I starting reading "Mending a Shattered Heart". I got very ambivalent about the whole issue, really still am, started wondering if my WS was just using this "diagnosis" to blame away his behaviors. The truth is- I SO don't want him to be a SA It's too hard, takes too much work, there's so much relapse. I think I know in my heart that WS doesn't have what it takes to beat this. He doesn't have any intention of really working a program at this time- he has not hit bottom- and I can't force him too! Why should I waste the rest of my life my someone who may never "get it".
I did NOT want this diagnosis. I want someone to just take it back- this is such a nightmare. I still find myself wondering sometimes if maybe he really doesn't have it- maybe the therapist is confused, ect..I just can't seem to come to terms with this.
My H gaslighted me big time in order to protect his dirty little secret. I questioned my own sanity, my ability to recall events correctly and many other mental capabilities.
Looking back I know it was all part and parcel of his shame and inability to look at himself 'in the mirror' if you will.
BTW, I am doing fairly well. I am detaching bit by bit. I continue to be kind and gentle with my H but the detachment is palpable to him, I'm sure. I want to do this right, so I am taking my time and thinking carefully about my next step.
Your husband is terrified -- on some level he knows and thinks himself a "monster". Sounds like you're doing a good job of keeping yourself healthy...while holding up a mirror to him. He just keeps averting his eyes because he's afraid of what he'll see.
My husband always thought therapy was something HE didn't need -- he was fine, it was everyone else who was nuts. Truth is, he was so invested in his "story" that his childhood was perfect, his parents were great, he was successful, happily married, etc. etc. The idea of looking at why he was meeting strangers in parking lots for sex was something he just didn't want to face. These addicts are masters at compartmentalization. It's a survival skill, usually developed in childhood, to cope with actions that are completely inconsistent with values/beliefs. My husband wanted desperately to believe his father loved him...but his father smacked him around. What did he do? Told himself that he deserved the smacking around or simply told himself it hadn't happened. Tucked it away in a part of his memory that he never accessed.
Disclosing to me what he'd been doing for our entire relationship blew the doors wide open on all the things he's suppressed. He's so much prouder of who he is and how he copes. There's a huge difference. But I still remember DDay 2, when he told me everything and fully expected me to think he was a despicable low-life. Because he thought that about himself.
Not sure if any of this helps, but your husband sounds like a little boy full of bravado... In the meantime, of course, he's making you feel crazy...something addicts do so well.
Glad to hear you're doing well. Hang in there.
((1Forward)) I'm so proud of you for being able to detach and still stay "nice" right now. I'm trying hard to do that (the 180)but I'm also trying to keep a little distance for the next few days. Our contacts have been for him coming to the house to get paperwork from the house for his lawyer but, there is an expectation that when he phones that I'm supposed to jump right away to meet his needs and that he shouldn't have to wait for a convenient time for me and then when he is there he is nasty and rude. To be honest, I did that for way too long when he was in the house but he is refusing to accept this boundary I set.
Through H's work there is a person assigned to me because of the situation being volatile. (You'd have to read my profile to understand that.) I hadn't bothered her up til now but when she checked in with me yesterday I spilled it all- that I thought he creating a whole new world, has found a whole new way to tell our history, that he had eliminated his old friends, some family, and definitely the kids and I. I told them about the evidence that the addiction continues and is transisting. I told them about how raging he was with his psychologist and me in a combined session. I told them that in any conversation he seems to just be seething below the surface and that if and when he hits bottom it could be devastating for more than just him. I told them that I have people phoning my house in the wee hours of the morning looking for H and that it is literally making me sick. For once, I don't feel bad about telling the truth!!!!!
[This message edited by grownup at 2:45 PM, January 9th (Friday)]
His sister and I are afraid he will run again. When too much truth comes to him, or when things get too hard, he has a habit of "running". He can compartmentalize, put the past into a neat little box, throw away everything and just start completely over. He has threatened that before, whenever I bring this topic up, so it is really scary to even broach it. That is the main reason I am trying to take care of myself, because I won't live with things the way they are now, and I don't think he has the courage to change. I wish I could get him to realize that he could be so much happier and at peace!
Same thing for him with his dad--his dad was his hero, he made his mom out to be the bad guy. He says she abused him and abandoned the family. In talking with his sister, though, and his mom, the truth is that his dad sexually abused his mom and she had to leave when they were teenagers to protect her sanity. His dad loved him, I am sure, but was also a SA, and had 4 wives. But you cannot say anything negative about his dad to him, he has him on such a high pedestal.
(I try to tell him that it is okay to love and look up to his dad--his dad loved him and did the best he could, but he just had an illness that he couldn't control--he needs to see the good and bad, but still has the blinders on)
I feel so awful for my H. He is just so sick and is full of shame and guilt. However, in detaching I cannot let this dictate what I do, except in helping me treat him with compassion.
One of Beattie's explanations of detachment is: If you were not married to this person, how would you conduct your life? Do that.
Following a link to Recovery Nation, and my own intuition, I've determined that my FWH is a sex addict.
He thinks so, too, but is still "digesting" the idea.
His parents are both addicts and so are mine, so it's no surprise to me that we end up here.
I want desperately for our daughter not to become an addict; that is what we are both working for, in addition to getting a marriage we both want.
Knowing he's an addict makes things better somehow, but I'm still struggling with the fact that he's been a liar and a cheat for 17 years.
I know I need to work on myself rather than him, rather than trying to control or rescue him, but damn it's hard to break patterns of behavior that have been with you all your life.
In response to your general question about sex addiction, you may read my Posts on Jan 8/09 6:04 and Jan 8/09 6:10.
Off for vacation - Talk to you all in a week. Take care.
I can so relate to what you all are saying about how your partner can't remember things correctly. I wonder if this goes hand in hand with the SA? It is so bad in our relationship that I have actually started bringing a notebook with me to counseling sessions and writing down what my WS says. At home, if we start "discussing" things, I go get the notebook and write everything down. Still the next day, or the next week, my WS will say "I have NEVER said that!" Now I can go get my notebook, open it up, and say "Yep, you did, it's right here". He always looks lost, confused, like he honestly doesn't remember what he said!
See, I never thought to write down everything he said, but I did think to right down URLs to his sites. I still have the bag of truth, just as a reminder. It's so hard to believe he was doing everything he was, and it's hard to believe I was so absorbed in it, I wrote down all those sites. (come to think, I wonder what I did with the urls from november)
My partner will also swear up and down he didn't say what he said. Classic example-we were driving, and passed an AMP. He started talking about how so many of them were fronts for prostitution. This was before I realized what he was up to. He swears up and down he didn't say it and that it doesn't sound like something he would say. Then of course if I were to bring that up in counseling he'd try to make me look like a liar. That's the bad part about he-he won't admit that maybe he forgot he said that (or was trying to lie) he'll accuse me of being crazy.
My partner also thinks he is deserving of infinite amounts of trust despite being perpetually dishonest. Crazy!!!
1F1B, I may need to reread that chapter in Codependent No More. Detaching is becoming more and more difficult. The latest things he's said and done to me just attacked me at my core.
NA, as far as him calling himself a monster, I read soemwhere (here? a book? I've read so much) that SAs judge themselves as society would judge them. A lot of people think SAs are just gross slime bags, sleazy, oversexed, etc. I remember when I asked a question about my partner on Yahoo!, and some of the answers weren't pretty at all. I'm not for sure if that's what's going on, it's just a guess.
Once again, I'm sorry for what he has said and done. (((((NA)))))
I am not trying to "fix" him. I don't know how. I want him to get help!! (Like a CSAT). I just want him to realize he has a problem that needs help. How would dear mil like to know her dear sweet crying baby boy solicits prostitutes and wants to send his private parts to other people over the internet!!! Or that he prefers to play with himself instead of playing with his wife. Maybe I should tell her he booked a cruise, mostly for the idea of visiting a nude beach so we could "do it" in front of others!!! (Cruise got cancelled before I found that out, thank God!) What would she think of dear baby boy then! She was the one that told me to be careful when he moved away, because he had a sex problem, and she was afraid he might cheat on me! What the hell is she doing!!!!
Bunch of fu**ing nuts!!!!!!!!
ETA: The scary thing is, they have me doubting myself--I just went back to a couple sex addiction sites to take the tests again and read up to make sure I am not the one that is crazy
[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 8:02 AM, January 10th (Saturday)]