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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts II
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 1:18 PM, January 16th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I took one more little step towards independence - I made an appointment this morning to go to a job/work program that helps you figure out what your strengths are to find a job.

I really don't think I am going to get my feelings back for him unless he gets his head out of his a$$ soon. I am just wondering if all the good things he did and was the first couple years was all a front, or if the jerk he has been lately is actually the real him. Whatever, I really don't know this person anymore. He is so not who he presented himself to be. And how can I love him, when I don't even know him?


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14900 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
lovedontlivehere
♀ Member
Member # 20055
Default  Posted: 3:58 PM, January 16th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am just wondering if all the good things he did and was the first couple years was all a front, or if the jerk he has been lately is actually the real him.


I wonder that,too. Sometimes I wonder if my partner works extra hard being nice to compensate for being an azzhole.

Then again, addicts do all kinds of things when they are under the influence that they would otherwise not do. I sat in an AA meeting for a few minutes, and that was one of the things I heard them allude to. Maybe I should go to AA meetings,too.

(((((NA)))))


I just thought of another example of his projection. One time I told him I knew he was looking up escorts and I knew which ones.

He asked why I was looking up prostitutes.

I just gotta if he thinks looking up whores like he does is one of my pastimes. I was so stunned I couldn't even think of a response.

I mean where the hell do they get this stuff???


Partner still wanking off into fantasy land.
*update* No longer together, but he was STABBED and now wants R. Whatever.

Posts: 1256 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Deep South
2br02b
♀ Member
Member # 19664
Default  Posted: 5:20 PM, January 16th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hope that things will get better. It is still so new, but I know I want to stay and work it out with him. Even if our M doesnt survive this, I grew up with him and I would still want to see him get healthy so he can be happy.

Thrive - I can so TOTALLY relate to that statement. H and I are high school sweethearts so the thought of giving up on my best friend when he needed me the most seemed impossible.

I decided to stay and try to work things out and found that a lot of people didn't or wouldn't try to understand.

It's been a skosh over a year since D-Day#2 and although I am still wanting to work things out.

BUT - I have come to realize that it can't be to manage him but to support his recovery.

This is not an open-ended thing. Just as I would treat my best girlfriend who wouldn't get help when you both knew they needed it; I am not going to support someone who isn't willing to work at getting better. My H has to work at his own recovery and I am willing to support him IF he does that.

So for now, I am trying to support my best friend while he gets his head together.


Me – 51
Him – 53 (and SA)
D-Day#1 – 9/19/1981
D-Day#2 – 11/23/2008
D-Day#3 - 6/6/09 (Actually D-Day!) - full disclosure given.
Forgiveness - 8/30/09
Married 29 years
2 adult children
Reconciling
2BR02B - that is the question.

Posts: 81 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Phoenix, AZ
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 10:33 PM, January 17th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Okay, this is for the people who've had husbands in recovery and they are "making it". Can a SA ever be normal as far as how he views sex? Can recovery last? Are you ever able to let your guard down? I want to know what the long term prognosis is for something like this. Can they ever give up ALL the secrets and start living a more integral life? And can they ever get to the point where they can pass up a porn movie or a chance for easy illicit sex without giving it a second thought?

I need some hope here. (but only if it is realistic--I don't want a lot of happy crap if it is not real.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14900 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 11:53 PM, January 17th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

oldtimer - you were so right about my mil! I talked with her tonight, and she is so worried about her son, and she begged me not to give up on him just yet. She said she told him he will never find anyone else as good as me, and to remember, my little girl loves him and needs him too. She said he actually had a bit of a deep talk with her (first time in years), and he actually told her I was having problems because of the porn on the laptop and that is why I took it home. (He did not go into the chatroom and escort stuff, though--how convenient). So I told her there was more, but I didn't want to go into that right now (trying to respect his privacy a little). And she told me that when he was living with her, (5 years ago), she got a $50 phone bill for calls from overseas. We are guessing those were probably sex talk calls??? And she said she would wake up in the middle of the night and find him on his computer. You know, he was single at that time, and normally that stuff would not bother me, but in light of what I know about his problem, it just makes me sick to my stomach all over again.

So yes, he was apparently using his master manipulating skills to try to keep us from talking. A$$hole. I am really getting tired of this crap.

Anyway, I told her I was doing everything I know how, and I wasn't leaving yet, but he really needs help, and I won't be moving down there with him this spring unless he agrees to counseling. At least I have one boundary in place.

[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 11:59 PM, January 17th (Saturday)]


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14900 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 11:56 PM, January 17th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

duplicate!

[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 11:57 PM, January 17th (Saturday)]


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14900 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, January 18th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Okay, this is for the people who've had husbands in recovery and they are "making it". Can a SA ever be normal as far as how he views sex?

Well, define "normal"... but anyway, yes he can. If he is sexually sober and his brain is back to "normal", then yes he can have genuine intimacy and view sex with his spouse in a healthy and "normal" way. I don't like the word "normal" I think a better way to look at it is healthy vs unhealthy.
Can recovery last?

Yes. If he gets COMPLETELY sober (He has to stick with recovery and abstinence from all sexual behavior, including masturbation, long enough to go through withdrawal and then for his brain chemicals to return to normal levels. He can never, ever masturbate again though. [This is a firmly held belief of mine and my rSAs...there are some who say that SAs can masturbate but we think that's a load of horseshit.] He can only have sex with his wife or partner.) AND if he sticks with counseling and group. He will have to be in recovery for the rest of his life but yes it can last. My rSA has been sexually sober for over 2 years with no slips. He works hard at his recovery.
Are you ever able to let your guard down? I want to know what the long term prognosis is for something like this.

Completely? I dunno, probably not...I think a healthy understanding that even a man in recovery might slip is a good thing. But I don't feel like I'm on guard all the time like I used to. I think I've let my guard down to a reasonable and non-intrusive level. His SA doesn't rule my life the way it once did. It will take a long time to get there and I'm probably not there 100% even though it's almost 4 years since my first DDay... of course it's only 2 years since his sobriety date... so really I should count from there, not from any DDay. I couldn't start getting healthier until he got sober. So I guess you should look at it as things being dramatically better 2 years into his sobriety. I'm sure different people have different time frames. For some it may take much longer and for some not as long. It depends also on the amount of effort you put into dealing with your trauma, getting counseling and stopping co-dependent behaviors. If the spouse does nothing while the SA is in recovery I don't think the outcome can be good. The spouse has to work a recovery of his or her own too.
Can they ever give up ALL the secrets and start living a more integral life?

I believe my rSA has given me full disclosure, it's an integral part of a healthy recovery and sobriety. As for living a more integral life (I assume you mean more involved with family and what you consider "normal") Absolutely, with some limits. My rSA does need to avoid things that would send him down the slippery slope. But that's HIS stuff and 99.9% of the time he does it without my even being aware of it. I don't worry about it because it's HIS stuff. Do I notice that he doesn't make eye contact with waitresses? Sure. Do I care? HELL NO! He's doing what he needs to do. We are living a "normal" life and going out to dinner. I'd rather go out and have him stare at his menu or his food than stay home. Are there some TV shows he doesn't watch anymore? Yep. Do I care? Nope.
And can they ever get to the point where they can pass up a porn movie or a chance for easy illicit sex without giving it a second thought?

Pass it up? Yes. Without a second thought? Hm. I don't know. Probably not but you know what? That's the addict's stuff, not yours. If he is sober and working his program, you'll never see it or be aware of it and you shouldn't be worrying about it.
I need some hope here. (but only if it is realistic--I don't want a lot of happy crap if it is not real.

It's hard work. It takes YEARS of therapy for both partners. He is a sex addict. He will always be a sex addict. He has to be in recovery (therapy and meetings) for the rest of his life. Forever. And ever. He will never be "cured." It will never miraculously be gone from his life or yours. He may slip even after many, many years of sobriety. I only concern myself with severity of the slip which is why my boundaries are multi-layered. If you choose to stay with a rSA you will be dealing with it in some form or another every day for the rest of your life. How that ultimately plays out is up to you and your rSA. How much effort he puts into his recovery and how much effort you put into yours.

I hope that's helpful. Let me know if you have more specific questions.
7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
lovedontlivehere
♀ Member
Member # 20055
Default  Posted: 1:59 PM, January 18th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My partner and I are thinking about another vacation. However, we don't go on a lot of vacations, but they can be really painful for me. He agoes cruising for other women online right before our trip. If not on some adult forum, then on Yahoo!-then I'm the bad guy for confronting him. Then I'd have to move heaven and earth for him to even think about being sexual with me. But I guess that's how things are in general. That's so disrespectful-I don't do that kind of crap to him!!!


Partner still wanking off into fantasy land.
*update* No longer together, but he was STABBED and now wants R. Whatever.

Posts: 1256 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Deep South
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 2:01 PM, January 18th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you 7yrs, that was very helpful. I'm trying to make MY decision on what I want. It is more difficult than I thought it would be.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14900 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
Tnkrbell23
♀ Member
Member # 22181
Default  Posted: 4:35 PM, January 18th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So my FWH just admitted that he is a SA. He's had trouble with porn for years that escalated to an A while away on a business trip out of the country. He just got sober too. (Why me, why me?) Maybe somebody out there could try and give me some words of encouragement.

Posts: 64 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: L.A.
lovedontlivehere
♀ Member
Member # 20055
Default  Posted: 5:40 PM, January 18th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((tnkrbell23)))))

I think it's good that he admitted he has a problem. That's the first step.

And I'm sorry you have to be here.


Partner still wanking off into fantasy land.
*update* No longer together, but he was STABBED and now wants R. Whatever.

Posts: 1256 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Deep South
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 7:23 PM, January 18th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tnkrbell23
I gave you a long list of resources in your thread asking about "Every Man's Battle" http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=273125&HL=10198

I don't know if you read it, my post was the last. You should read it if you haven't. Those are the resources I recommend to everyone who just found out they're living with a SA.

It's good that he's admitted it, that's half the battle won right there. If he gets into recovery and gets completely sober, there is hope.

I will say this, I don't think just going to one weekend "Every Man's Battle" is going to help anything other than it perhaps being what's made him admit his SA. He needs to find a CSAT (see my other post) and get into a group situation; either SA meetings (see my other post) or a group led by his CSAT.

PM me anytime,
7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 7:24 PM, January 18th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lovedontlivehere
He's not in recovery. You're not in recovery. Why would you be going on vacation with him?


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
gibbonsrose
♀ Member
Member # 16280
Default  Posted: 9:39 PM, January 18th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all, I found an interesting article today on SA disclosure to children. Hot topic for me, so I thought I'd toss it out here for those who are in the same boat.

Sex Addiction Disclosure to Children: The Parents’ Perspective

By M. Deborah Corley and Jennifer P. Schneider

Sexual Addiction & Compulsivity, 2004, in press

Abstract


This qualitative study investigates factors related to disclosure to children by parents who are self-identified as a sex addict or partner of a sex addict. Fifty-seven individuals (addicts and partners) completed an anonymous survey about their experiences disclosing about the sexual addiction to their children. Data were analyzed using grounded-theory methodology. Emergent themes included circumstances surrounding disclosure, reasons not to disclose, types of information disclosed, perceived responses of the children, changes people would make to disclosures, and special issues surrounding sexual misconduct/offending and sex offender registration. Preliminary implications are provided for therapists working with families in which sex addiction or offending exists.

Recent research has indicated that disclosure of sexual secrets is one of the most difficult and important therapeutic tasks for sexual addicts and their partners. Involving children in therapy has also been recommended, including thoughtful and well planned disclosure to children on an age-appropriate basis. However, disclosure to children remains one of the least researched areas of treatment of sex addicts or sex offenders. Discussing sexuality in an open fashion is difficult at best for most parents; it is also reported as even more difficult when the discussion is about sexual addiction or sexual offending behavior. Only recently has research suggested that children want information and frequently know more than parents think they know.


http://www.jenniferschneider.com/articles/disclosure_to_children.html

[This message edited by gibbonsrose at 9:39 PM, January 18th (Sunday)]


Me - Befuckled
WH - Limber at limbo *sigh*

Posts: 5040 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: mountain transplant
millionpieces
♀ Member
Member # 17245
Default  Posted: 3:05 AM, January 19th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My goodness, never thought I'd find myself here, but here I am non the less. I guess I've known since the A came to light and I installed a keylogger that I discovered that WS was a sex addict. The hours and hours of porn logged. Chatting on webcam on yahoo sex chats asking random girls to take it off. Cruising Craigslist for escorts. Some how though I thought I had a handle on the situation. I can't be his "mother" and "big brother" 24/7, and it happens more so when I'm not around. It doesn't make me feel better that I can keep tabs on him. It makes me sick to know that he is capable of doing this. Worse part of it all is that he will never admit that he has a problem. I'm just trying to deal the best I can with DD, and hoping one day I'll find the courage to leave...


D-day August 28th 2007
DD 4 yo
Bb#2 on its way

Posts: 206 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: O Canada!
grownup
♀ Member
Member # 22285
Default  Posted: 9:05 AM, January 19th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I need a quick bit of help.

H is coming to the house today to get his paperwork for the first collaborative lawyer meeting tomorrow. Nothing like leaving it to the last minute.

He keeps asking"Why won't you be friends with me?"
I have been trying to live the 360 of being "cashier nice" but very distant otherwise.

This question still stuns me and I have no idea how to answer so I just haven't.

For anyone who hasn't met me yet..: H is definite SA , probably NPD and on the run. (see profile)

I've missed some days so I need to catch up on posts later today. Hope everyone is holding on to sanity or insanity..which ever is most functional right now.


Me:44
Him:44 SA
Married:14 years
D-day: too many, final Nov 8, 2008
Separating ,he's on the run

Posts: 153 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: alberta
Eternaloptimist
♀ Member
Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 9:39 AM, January 19th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi grownup,

If by "be my friend", he means "competely remove boundaries so I can exploit and abuse our friendship", then...you know the answer. Being someone's "friend" doesn't mean putting yourself in a position to be hurt. It's hard for these guys to understand that the rules have changed once their partners start putting healthy boundaries in place. I'm sure you're happy to be his "friend" once he has true friendship to offer -- until he's in recovery, he doesn't have the emotional ability to be anyone's friend, including his own.

That's my two cents.

[This message edited by Eternaloptimist at 10:59 AM, January 19th (Monday)]


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Toronto
birdwatch
♀ Member
Member # 19978
Default  Posted: 11:43 AM, January 19th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

millionpieces and Tnkrbell23,

I am sorry you have found yourselves here, and I hope you will find support and understanding in this Thread.

Only a Certified Sex Therapist can diagnose SA. If one is not readily available in your area, then at least consult a therapist. There are books by Patrick Cairns on the subject, as well as on-line questionnaires, that may shed some light. While a SA is someone who engages in inappropriate sexual activities, not everyone who engages in inappropriate sexual activities is a SA (like all fathers are men, but not all men are fathers).

The important things at this time are for your spouse to acknowlege he has a problem, commit to recovery and seek help; and for you to learn more about SA, co-dependency, seek help and set boundaries. You should also look after your own physical health (e.g. STD tests, depression, anxiety attacks, etc.) and mental health.

There are three parties that need to heal and recover - your spouse, you and the relationship. Two poinrts to remember - (1) Without healing on the part of your spouse, and on your part, there is little value in healing the relationship. (2) You should focus on YOUR recovery and try to let your spouse deal with his own (though you should obviously set boundaries). It is very easy to try to control your spouse's recovery and be obsessed their potential relapses that you neglect your own healing.

Generally, no major decision should be made within the first year of the discovery. You are entitled to digest the information, grieve, receive help and make informed decisions.

Post here often. We are here to listen and support you. Whatever decision you make, it will be a roller coaster ride. Hang in there.

birdwatch

[This message edited by birdwatch at 11:53 AM, January 19th (Monday)]


* Known WS since 2001. Me: 37.
* D Day 1 - Mar 2008: Discovered cyber/phone sex, dating sites etc
* D Day 2 - May 2008: Discovered more "stuff". WS admitted to one A - my gut says > half a dozen.
* R'ing. IC & MC. WS is sex addict.

Posts: 377 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Toronto, Canada
birdwatch
♀ Member
Member # 19978
Default  Posted: 12:00 PM, January 19th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lovedontlivehere,

I hope you are doing well.

Taking a vacation to distant yourself from the immediate crisis may give you new perspectives on the situation. It will also be beneficial to your mental health to take a break, however brief, from your spouse's SA. I just came back from a vacation with Mr. Birdwatch. It gave me long stretches of unstructured time, without work worries and mundane daily chores, to grieve, to think, to re-evaluate, to plan and to communicate with Mr. Birdwatch.

Having said that, I echo 7yearsbetrayed's comment that you may wish to choose another travel companion other than your spouse, who appears to not even acknowlege he has a problem, let alone seeking change or committing to same. Focus on yourself - go away with a girlfriend or a family member, who is supportive and loving. You deserve a much needed break AWAY FROM YOUR SPOUSE!

birdwatch

[This message edited by birdwatch at 12:02 PM, January 19th (Monday)]


* Known WS since 2001. Me: 37.
* D Day 1 - Mar 2008: Discovered cyber/phone sex, dating sites etc
* D Day 2 - May 2008: Discovered more "stuff". WS admitted to one A - my gut says > half a dozen.
* R'ing. IC & MC. WS is sex addict.

Posts: 377 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Toronto, Canada
lovedontlivehere
♀ Member
Member # 20055
Default  Posted: 1:17 PM, January 19th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Only recently has research suggested that children want information and frequently know more than parents think they know.


*sigh* As someone who grew up with a probable porn/sex addict, that is so true. In fact, you can assume that if someone in the house was viewing porn to any significant extent, that there is a great chance that the child has caught them in the act.

You can also assume that the child notices how the SA ogles other people.

I know I did.

I always knew about my grandpa's As even though his wife is in the dark.

I really don't want that for any future progeny of mine.

As far as the vacation, at least I can get away from all my other problems. Whew!!! lol I'm not sure who else I could go with though. My relationship with my family is strained. I have the kind of family you'd rather be away from! My bff is broke and not to mention busy with her (possibly sexually compulsive) boyfriend.

I do however have a vacation just for me planned in the summer!

I'm actually not going to see him much in the upcoming months bc he'll be commuting btwn here and Las Vegas. I've seen him like 3 days this entire month.


Partner still wanking off into fantasy land.
*update* No longer together, but he was STABBED and now wants R. Whatever.

Posts: 1256 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Deep South
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