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User Topic: Long Term Affairs X I V
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, January 5th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a question I'd like to ask, especially of those who are further out from d-day.
I don't know why this suddenly came to me because I think I've always known it (since d-day) but somehow its impact and significance really struck me this morning. Here is my most recent revelation:
I am not here (in my M) because I want to stay but because I am not sure I want to leave. It really hit me that this might be part of my problem in moving forward. I had another dream the other night and I do believe this is a major factor but I know I need to figure out what to do and that is the question I will ask. First the dream though. I was far out at sea with my H on a boat and it was beautiful and calm and I decided to enter the water. Once I got in the water, I became anxious and worried and started looking for sharks (danger ). That's it - very short but because I have had this dream almost verbatim every several months I do think it is significant. I think it may be why this morning I've come to see what is holding me back from letting go after 3 years of R with a mostly remorseful spouse.
So my question is this - who is here because they want to stay in the M rather than you're not sure you want to leave, and if this is true for you, was there some turning point in your healing that caused you to reach this conclusion?
For those of you that are here because you're not sure you want to leave, how does this impact your healing and does it interfere with your ability to recommit to your M?
I think something that fadingmemories wrote about her H's plans for a recommitment ceremony had me thinking about how I am still not ready to do that, not that my H has ever suggested it, but I know with almost 100% certainty that if he did I would have to turn him down.
Maybe it's just the aftermath of my antiversary causing my negative attitude and also knowing I need all my strength to help my sister but I just keep hoping that one day I will come to the decision that I am here because I absolutely want to be in this M and that I want the recommitment ceremony to formalize my certainty.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 12:35 PM, January 5th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am not here (in my M) because I want to stay but because I am not sure I want to leave. It really hit me that this might be part of my problem in moving forward.

FNF - I am so far behind you that I cannot even begin to help. However, this is one of the points of the Imago weekend is that you have to be committed. I am not there yet but I am definitely moving along the continuum from "he's so fucking outa here" to "I think we can make this work". You know this is a process. You have had to deal with double betrayal over a long period. There is much to recover from. Give yourself the time to do this; however, is there something he/you/you guys together are not doing that is holding you back?


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 2:08 PM, January 5th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HS - sent you a PM. It's kind of long and a bit ranty so feel free to read only if you're up to it.

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 2:09 PM, January 5th (Monday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, January 5th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am still here because rather than wanting him in my life, I cannot imagine my life without him. I said to him a long time ago that I wouldn’t know how to start to disassemble our marriage, everything is so bound up in us that ripping it apart seems impossible. I have asked myself another question: looking ahead a few years, can I see if I be happier with him, or without him. Mostly, I want to stay and I don’t think it’s from inertia or from preferring the lifestyle to the unknown.

The biggest problem is that I cannot see him in the same way. He has shown such an ugly, selfish and contemptuous side of himself that I cannot disregard it. I feel I have been treated as convenient until he met and hooked up with the true love of his life and then I became totally insignificant for the five years of the affair while they waited until it was the right time to leave. And I don’t think he decided until a few months before the end. I swear if I had found out early on in the affair (in spite of the “love letters” and other declarations he made), he would have left. He had to have his time with her and there was nothing I could do about it. Kind of destiny. And that hurts. Is that possible to accept? Maybe. Everyone keeps telling me it’s what we have now that matters, but aren’t we the sum of our past too?

Currently, I’m happy to be his partner. I do not think of myself as married to him. I do not want him to ask me to marry him. He asked her (he never asked me – it was more the Carrie type of discussion if you’ve seen Sex and the City), she thought he meant it, so why should a proposal mean anything different to me? I would like some sort of commitment ceremony though.

My dreams relating to the insecurity I feel involve MOW’s H and I looking for them, or walking behind them as if we were all friends on an outing, or meeting in a hotel that they just “happened” to book into too. I fear she will be back and her H and I have to be constantly on the alert.

My heart goes out to you FNF. You have a lot to deal with emotionally right now. Don’t question where you are at the moment, just live it. Find some strength within yourself , know that you are true to yourself, you love your family and they love you. And isn’t that all that matters in the end?

(((((FNF)))))


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 3:14 PM, January 5th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ETA Oh, and my dreams relating to the marriage are me with suitcases, often in hotel foyers. So what does that say???!


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
trahi
♀ Member
Member # 21636
Default  Posted: 3:25 PM, January 5th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HS, hope you don't mind - I bumped up your post in R about your Imago weekend. I had a couple questions/needed some opinions about whether WH and I should go to one at this point, if you don't mind.

Hi everyone else. I've been lurking here for the past month or so. I think that WH's affairs were more like short term affairs rather than LTAs, since they only last months each rather than years. But there's a 5 year spread from when he had the first one until when I caught him in the last one. So that feels like the infidelity was long term, even if it was with other women and not constant. Anyway, it's been helpful reading a lot of the posts in here. Thanks!


me - BS


Posts: 1359 | Registered: Nov 2008
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 3:42 PM, January 5th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

who is here because they want to stay in the M rather than you're not sure you want to leave, and if this is true for you, was there some turning point in your healing that caused you to reach this conclusion?
I'm not further out from D-day... I'm approaching antiversary #2... but I know I want to stay in my M. And I so identify with you right now. So much so that it's eerie.
My sister is chronically ill; her illness is exacerbating. I am trying to support her LD as I could only go there for a week in Dec. after her 1st hospitalization. I have recurring nightmares (similar theme). I question my inability to let go of the A details, my not healing is affecting every corner of our life today. I want some kind of recommitment event but it has to come from him. On NY's eve he told me he wants to make 2009 our best year ever. And it should be... if his choices had been different 5 yrs ago! I hate that this clouds my daily existence, my joy at being a grandparent soon and keeps me from being the positive, productive person I used to be. I'm feeling so negative, while trying to be positive for my only sister.

I wish I had answers for you. Maybe then I'd have some for myself. Anybody else have some input??? {{{FnF}}}


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
lovinlife
♀ Member
Member # 17863
Default  Posted: 6:57 PM, January 5th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((FNF)))))

who is here because they want to stay in the M rather than you're not sure you want to leave, and if this is true for you, was there some turning point in your healing that caused you to reach this conclusion?

I am in my M because I want to be here. I have no desire to leave.

At one point I did put my FWH out and we seperated for awhile. It was the best thing I could have done. I learned that I didn't need him here to be OK. I could hold my head up and even smile and laugh. I have wonderful friends and family, especially my 2 kids. If we hadn't decided to R, I think I would still be happy.

I did miss him and the thing that made me decide, my turning point, was the loss of someone we were both close to. Honestly, it really made both of us think.... and from that day forward, my H became a different man.

I too changed. I loved my husband and I chose to grow old with him. I haven't forgotten, but I think I have forgiven. Slowly, day by day.

I had realized that there were problems before the A. Living with someone long term means that sometimes we don't always pay enough attention to each other. Life gets in the way and children and any numerous other things.

We are surviving because we are now focusing on the "us" that we both lost along the way.

If I didn't want to be here, I would have moved on. Life is too short to let the years keep passing you by. Everyday is a gift and only you can decide how to live it.

Lovin


Together more than half our lives.

I am woman, hear me ROAR!!
What you accept, you teach!

Me 53, WS 54
Reconciled for life!
DD 24, DS 27


Posts: 1159 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: Missouri
lovegonewrong
♀ Member
Member # 17440
Default  Posted: 8:08 PM, January 5th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wow if I ever needed to read this post today is the day....
I have not come here for sometime I lurk around recon & general a lot, but for some reason that I should read this forum.

I had this conversation with FWH this very morning, about me not being able to move on and that I need to 'get off the fence' and take the next step.

My dream is that someone is trying to kill me with a gun, I run and hide but they are aways behind me creeping up. I wake up with heart palpitations and trying to gasp for air!! what does all that mean.

I have been very anxious the past week antiversary #2 coming up soon. It's affecting me more this year then last. Why?

I know that I am falling back in love with FWH but am so scared to tell him this. I have not said the ILY stuff since back in July last year when I realised that I did not love him any more then a friend. Several months of continued MC & IC and I have seen real changes in him. More positive one's he is becoming someone I can love, but I have that little voice inside me saying 'be careful, can you really, trust him'.

I need to take the next step, I want to be here for the M not because I don't want to leave. I want so much to push forward but how do you leave all this behind? Can I really trust him again?

He has asked me to renew our vows and I told him I was not ready I wanted to be sure that this was going to work. what I really want is to renew when I can forgive!!

I need someone to push me off the fence. Any help???


Monty Python, "It isn't the despair. I can handle the despair. It's the hope that's killing me."


DDay #1: 04 March 07
DDay #2: 10 May 2007 revealed all (I hope)

profile has all the sordid details...


Posts: 124 | Registered: Dec 2007
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 10:48 PM, January 5th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FNF:

I spent at least 2.5 years not knowing whether I would stay or go. I put those years to good use, however, on me. IC, reading, etc, etc. By the 2.5 year mark, I had worked hard to erase my FOO issues and the damage done by living with his passive-aggressivenss (huge, huge stuff there.) After all that work I genuinely liked myself more than I had at anytime since young adulthood. I was strong enough to take risks. The question was whether I would risk a life with him, or a life without him.

I will admit that inertia played a significant role in my initial decision to stay, as did the fact that I had pre-teen kids. But what turned out to be more important is the fact that I love my husband and that he worked his butt off to address his issues. My H is a charming guy and smart and funny, a real pleasure to be around. That never changed, but he also added a depth and an ability and desire to be a real husband. He's not perfect now (nor am I, certainly), but he is what I always hoped that he would be. And most importantly, he changed a lot of small behaviors and attitudes that on a day to day basis were difficult to live with. Ways of talking or acting that were disrespectful or unkind in subtle, but hurtful ways. Most importantly, he virtually eiminated the passive-aggressive stuff, which took a lot of guts.

I think a real turning point for me came in my being able to see his actions not as a strike against me, but as a measure of his own past shortcomings and weaknesses. We all talk about seeing an affair that way, but when you finally really do that, I don't think you can help but have compassion for that broken person who acted in that way. When I got to that point, I could stop viewing him as a degenerate or a monster, and start viewing him as a person again.

At the same time I made a conscious decision that I was not going to let the past steal anymore of my life. I decided to commit to the marriage and see what happened. I did not tell him that immediately however. I lived with it for a few months before I told him. I did the same thing somewhat later when I realized that I had forgiven him for much of the past.

I think part of my willingness to do this is my own deep and abiding belief in the ability of people to change. I've said this before, but I believe strongly in redemption -- that people who make the tremendous effort to make amends for their sins and to change themselves deserve a second chance.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
BorrowTrouble
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Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 10:56 PM, January 5th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One last thing. I was relentless about addressing all the issues we had in the marriage. I let nothing go, and that went for my own inadequacies as much as his. One of the ground rules we had is that we each brought up everything that was bothering us always, which was difficult for both of us. Nothing was left to stew about. It was all out in the open. We learned ways to talk through tough issues in MC (Imago) and at Retrouvaille, and we used them. Still do. It made for some difficult conversations and some tension, but in the long run it cleared the way for us to have the kind of marriage we wanted -- one without secrets and resentments and fears.


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
fadingmemories
♀ Member
Member # 20531
Default  Posted: 12:27 AM, January 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FNF I am sending good thoughts and praying for your sister.

he is what I always hoped that he would be.

I am staying in my marriage because I want to be here. I look in my H eyes and I beleive he has made great strides in becoming a man we can both be proud of. What he did was truly the definition of betrayal in every sense, he knows that. He knows it took him to the age of 50 to grow up. I have always loved him, always dedicated myself to him. He never recognized that because he was too busy blaming me for his inadequacies. He was searching for an ego stroke that would make him feel wonderful even though he did not have to do anything to earn it. He now sees that his lack of accomplishment had nothing to do with me and everything to do with himself. Tough thing to admit for a man.
He has now taken hold of all of it, our relationship, his direction, responsibility to the home and his children and dedicated every day to making it all the best it can be. He tells me how grateful he is that I was able to be brutaly honest with my hurt, anger and forgivness. He knows I will not forget or tolerate it again no matter how much I love him but I am ready to move on. When he kissed me at midnight on New Years he said "Everything good in my life is wrapped up with you. This will be the first year you truly have the love and honor you have always deserved."
people who make the tremendous effort to make amends for their sins and to change themselves deserve a second chance.

I agree BT!
HS I pray none of us will be blindsided again.
What guarantees do any of us have? We are all stronger having gone through this and not have let it defeat us, no matter what we decide. The fact is we are making the decision. One change that is permanant is that we will forever have our antenae up. The nieve trust is forever gone but we can still live, love & laugh.

I have said yes to the recommittment. I have my fingers and toes crossed that this is the right thing to do. I have to move forward, away from the ugliness of the past years. I want peace in my home and my heart. I so wish you all the same. Let me be a posive source for any of you that need it. If I fall again, I will fall hard. I know you will all be there to help pick up the pieces. I really thank you all for that support.


Me BS
Him FWS
Married 25 Years  Together 31
LTA 12 years
DDay 4/11/08
R 2/14/09
"No matter if you think you can or you can't...either way you are right"
Scars do not form on the dying...
only on the survivors.



Posts: 315 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: North East
lovinlife
♀ Member
Member # 17863
Default  Posted: 6:36 AM, January 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

At the same time I made a conscious decision that I was not going to let the past steal anymore of my life.

I believe strongly in redemption -- that people who make the tremendous effort to make amends for their sins and to change themselves deserve a second chance.

BT,
Making the decisions and then moving forward are vitally important. I too am one of those that believe we deserve a second chance, especially when you can see that they are truly changing.

fadingmemories,

I have to move forward, away from the ugliness of the past years. I want peace in my home and my heart.

Me too.... I want hope as well.

(((((FNF)))))
Keeping you and your family in my prayers.

(((((LTA TRIBE)))))

Lovin


Together more than half our lives.

I am woman, hear me ROAR!!
What you accept, you teach!

Me 53, WS 54
Reconciled for life!
DD 24, DS 27


Posts: 1159 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: Missouri
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 8:24 AM, January 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Find some strength within yourself , know that you are true to yourself, you love your family and they love you. And isn’t that all that matters in the end?

UKG - Absolutely. I don't know if I could have survived this without the love and support of my family and all of you. I feel very fortunate to have so many loving, supportive people in my life. I know I have been blessed.
BTW, I looked up your dream in my dream book (I dream so often this helps me to understand whatever it is my subconscious is trying to tell me). It said that dreaming of being in a hotel can mean that we need to escape from a situation in our lives for a short time. I don't know about you but I can tell you that I have felt this often during these last few years. Also, the luggage is significant too. The book says that luggage symbolizes "what we feel is necessary to have us go forward." It represents "those habits and emotions that have helped us in the past but which can now be reappraised."
I think this is very interesting. Does this sound reasonable to you?
I am trying to support her LD as I could only go there for a week in Dec. after her 1st hospitalization.

LS, I am so sorry that you are going through this too. It makes it so much more difficult with the long distance I'm sure. I cannot imagine being far away from my sister at this time. Many hugs to you. Keep posting or PM me and we can support each other through this difficult time.
and from that day forward, my H became a different man.

Therein lies the rub, Lovin.
I'll bet that those of us who are unsure have H's who really haven't committed to making the changes, to really looking within themselves to see how it is they could have made such devastating choices. Those of you, yourself, BT, HS (sorry if I missed anyone) whose H's have the guts and the desire to delve deeply within themselves and commit to becoming better men, better H's, better fathers are very, very fortunate.
I loved your post and BT's. I agree with everything each of you wrote. What has made my decision difficult lately is witnessing bits of my H's "old self" resurfacing. He is lying again, he is short-tempered and passive-aggressive, he makes snide, insulting remarks and is critical and impatient.
BT wrote:
And most importantly, he changed a lot of small behaviors and attitudes that on a day to day basis were difficult to live with. Ways of talking or acting that were disrespectful or unkind in subtle, but hurtful ways. Most importantly, he virtually eiminated the passive-aggressive stuff, which took a lot of guts.

I read this and bingo! this is exactly what hasn't happened in a permanent sense. My H does show signs of changing and then he slips back into those old, destructive behaviors and I get very discouraged. His insecurities, his need for adoration, his constant attempts to seek approval and praise outside himself are sad really. Last night I sat down with him and we talked for close to 2 hours. I told him how sorry I was that at this stage of his life he still had to look outside himself for his worth. That he still didn't know, really know deep inside what his own worth was. I told him I wanted to help him find that, to believe in his own worth. I told him he needed to become the man that he could be proud of. I reminded him that every lie he tells makes it that much more impossible to believe anything he tells me or has told me in the past. That to lie because it suits your need at that time or because you think it elevates your status frightens me and keeps me on my guard.
I was relentless about addressing all the issues we had in the marriage. I let nothing go, and that went for my own inadequacies as much as his. One of the ground rules we had is that we each brought up everything that was bothering us always, which was difficult for both of us. Nothing was left to stew about. It was all out in the open.

Again, BT, this is something I have been trying to accomplish in my M but with little success. It's where the passive-aggressive stuff comes in. When I see that I challenge my H to admit what it is that is really bothering him and you cannot imagine how difficult this is for him. I always know when he is upset with me because of his P/A behaviors and I have to go and sometimes beg to get him to be honest with me. I know that his A was due in large part because of his inability to be honest and open with me.
This is going to sound dramatic but there is a scene in the movie Sybil (love that movie) where she hides under the piano and Joanne Woodward finds her there curled up and sucking her thumb and says, "What did that monster do to you?"
Well, I don't think my in-laws were monsters but I do think they did some serious damage to my H's self-esteem and at his age to have never overcome that is very sad indeed. I have tried to encourage him to go back to C'ing but he constantly says that he doesn't need it. Ok then, whatever.
I am rambling on and on so feel free at this point to move onto the next post . It just feels good to talk (especially since it's my sister who always listens to me but I don't want to burden her now so guys, you're it! )
I was telling my H last night how my sister and I (we're twins) at a very early age had an agreement that whenever we saw something in the other that needed improvement or required change we would let each other know. We promised that we would help each other to become better people. We have continued to do that for one another throughout our adult lives. I never realized how lucky I was to have someone in my life who helped me become a better person until now. I tried to explain to my H that it was a sign of true love to do this for one another, it is not criticism done out of malice or jealousy but wanting what is best for the other person. I think this concept is so foreign to him and this makes me sad. He looked at me as if I was speaking in tongues.
I know I've made mistakes in my M. I knew the state of my M during those years was in trouble and instead of confronting them head-on, I frequently ran away. I did try occasionally but more often, if I'm honest, I shrugged and walked away. Well I don't want to do that anymore and I want my H to open up but he is so resistent to that idea.
So, this is my long-winded way of saying that those of you whose H's have the guts to change are very blessed and I am happy (and envious) for you.
My H told me last night that he wanted to work on this and I believe that he believed this at that moment. Only time will tell.

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 8:44 AM, January 6th (Tuesday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 8:34 AM, January 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When he kissed me at midnight on New Years he said "Everything good in my life is wrapped up with you. This will be the first year you truly have the love and honor you have always deserved."

I cannot think of anything more beautiful that your H could have said to you at that moment. What a beautiful gift, and what a beautiful way to begin a new year FM!


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 8:40 AM, January 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I believe strongly in redemption -- that people who make the tremendous effort to make amends for their sins and to change themselves deserve a second chance.

I agree wholeheartedly, BT. I wouldn't still be here if I didn't. It's just that for some (my H ) the process goes a little more slowly - one step forward and a few steps backward and this requires patience, something I've not always been known for - that's my work.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 8:59 AM, January 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I need to take the next step, I want to be here for the M not because I don't want to leave. I want so much to push forward but how do you leave all this behind? Can I really trust him again?

LGW - I think both of BT's posts immediately following yours can help you figure out the answer to your questions. She is so insightful and her success story truly is a light for all of us.
As to your dreams, well, I just happened to look into my dream book for you.

The interesting thing here is that a gun, according to this book, represents "male sexuality." To have someone using a gun against us indicates that we are in a position of being a victim of someone's sexual aggression. To me, I think this is true for all of us who are victims of LTA's. Our struggle to feel safe and to have the assurance that our H's could never hurt us like this again is a daily struggle that we hope and pray one day will be overcome. What do you think?


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
lovinlife
♀ Member
Member # 17863
Default  Posted: 9:19 AM, January 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My H does show signs of changing and then he slips back into those old, destructive behaviors and I get very discouraged. His insecurities, his need for adoration, his constant attempts to seek approval and praise outside himself are sad really.

I am so sorry, and I agree that I am very lucky. Your H is truly blessed to have you. It seems that you understand him better than he does hisself!

It's hard to understand what makes a "light bulb" go on in one person and yet not in another. I often look back and contemplate what it really was for my H to start changing, but I am grateful to be given this chance.

We are here for you and always willing to listen.

(((((FNF)))))


Together more than half our lives.

I am woman, hear me ROAR!!
What you accept, you teach!

Me 53, WS 54
Reconciled for life!
DD 24, DS 27


Posts: 1159 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: Missouri
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, January 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WOW! So many insigtful posts. I need to go back and RE-read before diving in. I did want to post a link to a thread that cheerleader had going in Recon yesterday that was very insightful. The thread follows the same topic of what are we still holding onto? Why are we not fully committed? What piece is still not healed, etc. Have a look everyone, I found much comfort from knowing that the struggles seem to be similar for all of us.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=270541


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 5:14 PM, January 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Like most of us, I put up with P/A and other hurtful behavior for more than 20 years, but after d-day I no longer would. The foibles I could tolerate from a faithful husband just wouldn't fly from an unfaithful one. Once I firmly committed to the marriage, too, I raised the standards for myself because I had a lot that I needed to change. But I was not a cheater, and for me that weighed so heavily on the scale that little else could be tolerated.

I don't think I would be able or willing to commit to continuing to work on a LTA-tainted marriage if my H was lying, being overtly passive-aggressive or downright nasty. At a minimum I would need to see him working actively to change.Or I would have to change my understanding of marriage.

FNF, I can totally see where your ambivalence comes from. Honestly, I was ambivalent about our marriage even before he confessed just because his bad behavior was so frustrating. I wanted so badly to have a real, intimate marriage and he worked so hard to block that. I did a lot of running away from that, too, pre d-day. But not after. Your H's comment about not needing C'ing would be a giant red flag to me, as I'm sure it is to you. Maybe it's time to find a hard-nosed MC and really get down to brass tacks and see whether those traits that are so bothersome could be worked out. I can't imagine how something as all-encompassing as P/A or lying can be overcome without some professional help.

If he isn't willing to do the work it's not going to happen, that's clear. This isn't something you can do for him. So, if he chooses not to work on changing the behavior you'll have to make some changes of your own. That doesn't necessarily mean divorce. I think at our age and stage in life it can mean other things, most of which would require a change in your expectations of what your marriage could be. Have you thought about that?

BT

[This message edited by BorrowTrouble at 6:07 PM, January 6th (Tuesday)]


D-day 7/29/04.

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