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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's II
Lunarfaze
♂ Member
Member # 24316
Default  Posted: 11:14 AM, July 16th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Really?
"also posted in Recon but looking for WS input,too...thanks!
I had a major meltdown last night and it stems from the fact that WS is emotionally constipated and I am tired of it. He was upset at how sad I was and said that when I get like that he feels "helpless" because he caused it and is overwhelmed with not knowing how to respond or if he can ever "fix things".
Huh? Really? I thought he was just being heartless and selfish...please explain. "

I am a WS and I will give you what insight I have. For me, seeing my wife upset, sad, tired, dead (per say), was and still is the worse part. Knowing that I am fault for her feelings seems so often unbearable. In a way, it is selfish, yes. I am letting my overwhelming feelings of hurt, guilt, and shame get in the way of doing what's right and needed for my wife. But on the other hand, the feelings are real and sincere... and, help me understand what I did. The way you say emotionally constipated is genius! I feel that way sometimes. I am no way close to R with my betrayed wife, but I have finally started to clear enough that even if I do not always have an answer, I can still listen, hug her, or say I'm sorry. I, like you husband, do not know if I can fix what I have done. I actually doubt it. But, I am still going to try.

One thing that really helped be was my wife two days ago printed me a list of things I needed to do for a chance at R. This made a huge difference. Seeing it on paper, something tangiable, made an impact. Now, I look at it, say, "I can do this" and have a clearer path... I seem less lost.

I hope this helps.


WH: Me/32
BW: Her/33
M: 5yrs, 3 kids
==~~==~~==~~==~~==~~
Dumbledore: "Dark and difficult times lie ahead, soon we must all face the choice, between what is right and what is easy."

Posts: 158 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: High Desert, So Cal
SurvivingInCA
♀ Member
Member # 23898
Default  Posted: 8:08 PM, July 16th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I posted this in general a day or two ago and got a lot of good BS responses. I would love some insight from WS's...

My WH tells me he loves me almost every day. Sometimes it is with focus “Surviving, I love you” … and sometimes it is more of a valedictory remark “I love you, have a nice day!” Every time I hear him say it, I have to wonder what the hell it means!

Pre A, when I said “I Love you” it conveyed a larger concept. For me it meant:
• I am true to you
• I respect you
• I cherish you
• You are special and wonderful
• I am accountable to you
• I am honest with you
• I am committed to you
• It is just you and me

Post A, when I say “I Love You” it now means:
• I still see the good in you
• I will stand by you despite what you have done to me
• I will believe in our future
• I will stay committed to you, even though you were not committed to me
• I will keep my promises to you, even though you did not keep them to me
• I will still try to be the best version of myself in this relationship
• I will give you what you have been unable to give me
• I will endure the inequity of this relationship
• I will bear the pain your infidelity has caused

But what does it mean when he says it? In the absence of fidelity and commitment what is left in HIS “I Love you”. Can someone so dysfunctional really understand the concept of love? Or, are they throwing those words out in the hopes of having them reflected back to inflate their own self worth? (just like they sought postive reflection from the A).

WSs – do you tell your BSs ILY? What does it mean??? Has ILY changed post A?


BW – me/36, WH him/35
Married 4, together 7
Dday – 4/10/09
PA – 1/1/08 to 5/1/08 (5 rendezvous)
No Kids - had been trying 1/1/08 - 4/9/09
OC – 01/09/DNA despite H's male factor infertility (guess she got the one miracle sperm)
R'ing

Posts: 136 | Registered: May 2009
chasingpavements
♀ Member
Member # 24325
Default  Posted: 9:15 AM, July 17th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BS here trying to figure out my WS. We're in R and mostly things are ok, but I feel like when I express my insecurities (specifically insecurities that were created because of the A), my WS just doesn't respond. I've told him specifically that I'm expressing them to him so that he has the opportunity to reassure me... but still, I get nothing.

Yesterday I told him that I feel insecure when we're intimate, that he's comparing my body to the OW's because she was his normal "type" and I'm not. I feel confident about my looks in general, and even though I've always known I wasn't his normal "type" I didn't realize it was so important to him... but he started planning to leave me just a few weeks into his A, and that's what he said the big attraction was to OW... he used to say she reminded him a lot of me, but he was drawn to her because physically she was everything he wanted.

And that, of course, is what I'm hearing in my head when we're being intimate... and then afterwards he always tells me that he feels like I don't let go...

So I explained this to him in an email and I was very careful to state it was my feelings based on that info from before and that I was reaching out to him because it's an insecurity that I can't overcome by myself. When he reads the email, he asks me "why" I sent it to him? and I'm like... I think it was pretty self explanatory. I was hurt and started shutting down, but then I reminded myself that he can't help me if I don't communicate my needs to him and so I said, I sent it to you so that you could reassure me.

He doesn't say anything. We go to bed. I check my email this morning... no response.

I'm really hurt. Like, I think that maybe I need to seriously start considering a divorce.

But I thought I'd reach out to the WS here to see if there was an explanation that was different than the conclusion I draw, which is "he's just not that into me."

Thanks.


"I personally believe "the one" - that special partner, the soul mate, that person that becomes intoxicated by love for us -
Well shoot, I think that the one that needs to feel that way is us, for ourselves."
wisdom from Healing Tree

Posts: 712 | Registered: Jun 2009
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 10:23 AM, July 17th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To WSs.

What do you think or feel when you see comercials for Ashley Madison, or you hear about some politician or moviestar or sports figure cheating?

My WW tells me that it bothers her but she doesnt feel like she has the moral high ground enough to say anything about it. Like she cant say how awful that is because she did the same thing.

Is this how you feel?

As a BH I wish she would say something because when I see something like that it hurts like hell.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3086 | Registered: Sep 2007
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 12:15 PM, July 17th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

chasingpavements -

I've told him specifically that I'm expressing them to him so that he has the opportunity to reassure me... but still, I get nothing

I don't know if this is an affair thing or a man/woman (Mars/Venus) thing. And clearly, I'm a WW, so our situations are opposite, so maybe I have nothing to offer you.

But, very early on, while dating, in fact, my H and I had agreed on a few canned responses to things we may say, well, things I may say. If I ask him "do I look fat?", his response will always be "am I bald?" It's supposed to be funny, but it works, because then he doesn't have to worry about the right answer.

Maybe you can tell your H exactly what to say. Instead of it being relatively nebulous like "I want you to reassure me", tell him you want him to tell you what part of you he likes best.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 12:25 PM, July 17th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Razor -

What do you think or feel when you see comercials for Ashley Madison, or you hear about some politician or moviestar or sports figure cheating?

This is one of those things you need to tell her how you want her to respond. Some BSes never want to hear their WSes being "hypocrites" and decrying someone else's sins. Some want their WSes to do so. You need to let her know what you want her to do.

My H, thankfully, is kind enough to say that I still get to reprimand the children if they lie, even though I clearly lied far worse.

Just let her know how you want her to act. (I am still extremely uncomfortable discussing any affair-related topics in the news, so I do not.)


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
1DLW
♀ Member
Member # 21971
Default  Posted: 3:25 PM, July 17th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Surviving,
When I say ILU to my BH I mean
I love you
I respect you
I will never hurt you again
I am Yours Forever
Your feelings matter to me
I am committed to you

I feel all of this every time I say that to him.
Of course it is hard for him, or any BS to believe a WS can know and feel love.
For me, my BH showed me love when he was willing to work on R with me. I mean, he showed it all along, I was just too messed up to see it.
Knowing what I did and he is still willing to work with me, It's overwhelming.
I have always loved him, I just didn't know how to really feel it or show it.
Now I just want to show him how much love I have for him.
I tell him all the time, but more important I try to show him. Sometimes it's something little, like sidewalk chalk in the driveway. sometimes it's bigger, like surprising him at the airport. Mostly it's being open and honest with him.





WS 42

Posts: 483 | Registered: Dec 2008
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 1:14 PM, July 18th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WSs – do you tell your BSs ILY? What does it mean??? Has ILY changed post A?

FWW here...yes, i do tell my BS i love u all the time. for me it means..

I DO LOVE U
I am committed
You are the only man for me
I will never hurt you again
You are valued
You are respected

I've always known my BS loves me. I was just too blind and arrogant to accept it and be happy with it. He's explained to me the ways in which he's shown his love to me. Now it's my turn, if he'll let me.....


FWW - 40
Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent...

Posts: 5527 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
lost_in_space
♀ Member
Member # 24302
Frustrated  Posted: 2:25 PM, July 18th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Looking for insight from any WS that are serial cheaters. Is there ever hope for a serial cheater to be truly remoreful and stop cheating?


Me: BW 38

Last DDay: 7/15/09
TT: 2/28/11
TT: 3/5/11
Dday again: 3/10/2011
All Done: Better late then never.


Posts: 3513 | Registered: Jun 2009
futureseemsbleak
♀ Member
Member # 16642
Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, July 19th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We have been s'd for five months. He doesn't call too much, he comes over to get his mail and presents me with a long hug and smile.

Not once has he asked me to dinner or just a get together to talk...

He has said "I feel guilty about everything", "I miss you and the boys so much", but yet nothing!

The latest email he ended with "Know that I will always love you"..Am I looking into this too much as to this not being committed and he is just moving on?

I'm getting more and more depressed everyday..I did take the initiative in asking him to attend MC and he said yes. It won't happen for 3-4 weeks due to scheduling.

WS's I appreciate your input on this.


Posts: 227 | Registered: Oct 2007
lingerdog
♂ Member
Member # 24459
Default  Posted: 7:52 AM, July 20th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WS's, why do you continue to lie, when you have been confronted with the truth.

My sitch right now is that I know OM's name, yet when I call him by name my WW refuses to admit to even his name.

That's what I wonder why do you continue to lie, when you are confronted with the truth. We are moving to D, she wants out of M, so what does it do to you to tell the truth at this point?


What lies behind us & what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
Oliver Wendell Holmes -Stolen from Uni's page

Posts: 8921 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Awesomeville
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 8:37 AM, July 20th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BS's...

Please read this entire thread before asking your questions, they have been asked and answered already.

Also, by you reading this entire thread...odds are, you're going to get alot more insight into the WS's mindset.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 192049 | Registered: May 2002
nothereorthere
♀ Member
Member # 20530
Default  Posted: 3:22 AM, July 21st (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My FWS was talking to a married buddy of his that mentioned he liked going to a certain place because he enjoyed checking out the girls there. My FWS told me this & laughed about it. His reaction to it upset me & I told him so. He got upset commented that I'm making a big deal out of nothing. Do any of you WS feel this is nothing or do you understand why his reaction would upset me? How should I take this??

Posts: 81 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:24 AM, July 21st (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Surviving -

WSs – do you tell your BSs ILY? What does it mean??? Has ILY changed post A?

One of the things I eventually learned was that post-A, words carry far less value. If words were used to deceive, then their value is highly diminished.

I eventually pressed myself to start saying "I love you because..." instead of just "I love you". By stating the specific reasons I love my wife, it both reassured her of how much I care for and need her, as well as reminded my just how fortunate I am to have her in my life.

The next time your WS says "I love you", try asking the question "Why?". At first, it will probably put him on the spot and he may stumble. That's a good thing - making him think. Let him see that he may just be saying it because it's the "right thing to say", and to see that he needs to know why he loves you too.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 8:25 AM, July 21st (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

futureseemsbleak -

Am I looking into this too much as to this not being committed and he is just moving on?

I think each situation can be different. But I believe strongly that the only path to a strong R involves closeness between the BS and WS - both physical and emotional. In the early hours of D-Day, I had suggested a possible Trial S to my BW. She refused, saying I was either all in when trying to fix our M or it was over. That was one of the best things she did for me during that time. It kept providing a constant reminder for me of just what it was I stood to lose, and what I was fighting to hold on to.

I think had I been given the space of an S, I would not have held onto NC and would have drifted further and further into the fog.

MC is a good step, but his actions needs to show he is "all in" - not just words. You may want to consider a fully committed approach. End the S, ensure full NC is in place and make both IC and MC a priority (3 to 4 weeks for scheduling? Sorry, but that tells me there is no dedication to do the right thing). Anything shy of that and D papers may need to be drawn up.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 8:33 AM, July 21st (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lingerdog -

what does it do to you to tell the truth at this point?

It shatters the fantasy.

It breaks apart the fog.

It makes a WS face the consequences of their actions.

It shines a light in the dark shadowy corner a WS is living in.

It holds up a mirror that does not distort, but shows exactly what the WS has become.

And worst of all, it reveals the conflict that a truly remorseful WS will feel inside of themselves - the actions they took that go directly against who they want to be as a person.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 8:39 AM, July 21st (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nothereorthere -

Do any of you WS feel this is nothing or do you understand why his reaction would upset me? How should I take this??

I would find myself bothered by his thought process. It is still rooted in some pretty selfish thinking. He finds comments amusing that relate to turning women into objects to be ogled over? And when you shared your concern he didn't see how you might start to wonder what else goes through his mind when he sees an attractive woman somewhere.

At a minimum, his reaction was thoughtless and tactless. At worst, he still does not have an emotional maturity that he needs to act properly within his M. Either way, he's got some work to do - likely in IC - to figure out why he would place his own enjoyment of "checking out hot babes" over your need for security in knowing he is focused on what you need.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
nothereorthere
♀ Member
Member # 20530
Default  Posted: 10:24 PM, July 21st (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you Listeningclosely for your reply. Your comments mirrored what I felt. He has more then once commented to me, "what do you expect me to say or do when another guy makes a comment like that?" My answer is, "exactly what you wish I would do if the roles were reversed." Why do some guys feel they must laugh along with other guys to be "one of the guys" when a comment like that is made? Then to come home & tell me what was said & laugh about it? That makes me very uncomfortable. It will be four years next month since I confronted him with his affair. At first, he stopped acting like that after the affair & when we started trying to reconcile. But in the past year, it seems he feels he should be able to say & do everything he use to before he had the affair. Kinda like, hey, it's been awhile, can we just get back to how we are & forget about it. That worries me, am I over reacting? I don't feel I am, I feel he isn't taking all the pain we've been through serious enough, which I feel puts the possiblility of something happening again. Seems like he wants to ignore what happened instead of continuing to deal with it. Makes me feel like he never really got how much he hurt me.

Posts: 81 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:33 AM, July 22nd (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nothereorthere -

There are actually two questions in one here:

am I over reacting?

I don't think you are. It seems to me there is an element of social immaturity involved here (though I wouldn't use that term with him - he's likely to get very defensive over that). Some guys can't seem to get past the "frat boy" stage where they have a burning desire to belong to the pack and will go along with pretty much anything suggested because he's just "being a guy".

The weakness this reveals is a man who is not feeling strong enough about himself that he is willing to go against the tide when the tide is wrong. The warning bells you hear are because his self esteem isn't strong enough to overcome the need to be accepted and appreciated by others. This is something he should definitely be exploring in IC.

Seems like he wants to ignore what happened instead of continuing to deal with it.

I'm not sure this is true. My A will forever be a part of who I am. I will never forget it, it's impact and the pain I caused through it. With that said, I also have to choose to focus on the "good me", the one worth being a part of my family. If after four years the A is kept front and center, I think I would start to feel a bit drained. I won't ever minimize it, but I also refuse to let the A remain an intense focus of my life. If there is a character gap in me, it's no longer about worrying about whether or not I will slip up and have another A (I never will). It's now about recognizing my own weaknesses and healing those because to do so makes me a better person.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
roccodom
♀ Member
Member # 19714
Default  Posted: 8:13 AM, July 22nd (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a FWH who is confusing the hell out of me. I had a dday and multiple NCs until last October.

He has acted very remorseful at times. He changes jobs, I have access to everything.

But like I said - he remorseful at times. The farther away from dday we get the more frustrated and angry he gets when I have continueing questions. Especially if I ask him why this won't happen again (after two times) My fear is that things seem to be getting back to a normal life - he slides back into the preA behavior.

We both were in IC and MC (we both just quit IC but still in MC).

He will tell me in an extremely frustrated and angry way - I wasn't communicated with you I was stuffing it in addition to a multiple of cirmcumstances to create a perfect storm (this include - poor boundaries with femail coworkders, returning from Iraq and emotionally closed,) but really the main element is conflict avoidance.

Part of me just thinks he's repeating what other people have offered as an explanation.

I don't know - Am I also being unfair and not NOTICING.

Something just doesn't gell. I've tried to talk to him about his - but a lot of anger.

He just deflect things back like "Oh yeh but YOU blah blah blah

I just need help if there is any hope. Does this get anywhere without IC anymore ???


BS - me (45) WS - him (45)
married 16 yrs (DS 11yrs, DD 9yrs)
#1 PA - DDay 12/97
#2 PA DDay 5/08
#3 PA DDay 2/12
Trying R
Buddhism teaches that a craving for things outside ourselves causes an unhappy and pointless search for security.


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