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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's II
Raoul
♂ Member
Member # 23697
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, June 14th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ALL WS welcome, WW especially

Its been 10 months since D-day (8/08), 8 months since she moved out. She's still seeing OM (he lives in her apartment the weeks that the children aren't there.

I did a 180 when I confronted her and have kept to that. Our divorce will be 'heard' in late September.

There are faint signs that she's sad about all this (to her Mom).

Once its gone this long, is it too long? She is proud and willful. She may play it through on pride alone.

While 180 has helped me not to go insane and be a good Dad, is there any way I can let her know that if she wants to talk, I will do that?

I don't want to be weak or let her know that I'm her 'safety net'. But (stupid me) I would try to R despite the dim prospects.

I've read this entire thread. It is wonderful that WS' can and will share their insights (and pain and joy) with others. Thank you.

Peace & strength,
Raoul


BS: Me 58 (180/Limited Contact 10/08)
WS: Her 51
Married: 24 years, 3 children 17, 15, 12
D-Day: August 2008 (Detectives)
She moved out October 2008
Divorce in process

Posts: 291 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: North America
TICKED OFF
♀ Member
Member # 8291
Default  Posted: 1:55 AM, June 15th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In General there is a post on the subject of protecting the ow or the BS when the WS was caught.

My h and most of the other WS in that thread, all protected their ow's and not the BS. My question is....Why would a WS protect their ow when they are caught instead of their BS. Was that a way of protecting themselves for getting caught or do you think they really wanted to protect the ow? My h initially was very protective of the ow even though she threw him under the bus.


Posts: 2390 | Registered: Sep 2005
Raoul
♂ Member
Member # 23697
Default  Posted: 8:22 AM, June 15th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Its nearly 10 months out. She's moved out. OM lives with her the weeks the kids are with me (every other week).
Once I knew, the only thing I could do was 180 and I've done a pretty solid one. I initiated the 180 on D-Day (leave him, work on us or S and D). She balked. I got her out of the house 6 weeks later. We only discuss the children and even that in short conversations or text messages. The divorce will be final before September's end.

While I hear from her Mother that WW is 'teary-eyed' about some things, she will not address anything to me or leave OM. I've told her Mom that WW could stop it al 'with a phone call' (to me). But I don't know if that message goes to WW. She will also tell 'Mom' that I'm 'cold to her sometimes and nice other times'. I don't think I vary much but its possible.

She's still a wreck with the kids and very foggy. She looks tired, haggard, weary.

Did I implement the 180 too quickly? I would like to talk to her before the divorce either settles or is tried. But she seems resolute in not ever facing me again despite the wreckage - our children, our home, her family, our friends.

After this much time, will she ever try to reach out? I love her still and would R but (if I've learned anything on SI) I cannot R by myself.

Please help,
Raoul

[This message edited by Raoul at 3:44 PM, June 15th (Monday)]


BS: Me 58 (180/Limited Contact 10/08)
WS: Her 51
Married: 24 years, 3 children 17, 15, 12
D-Day: August 2008 (Detectives)
She moved out October 2008
Divorce in process

Posts: 291 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: North America
survivor78
♀ Member
Member # 23703
Default  Posted: 6:17 PM, June 15th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Posted this earlier on the wrong forum:

Hello to any WS who could comment:
My WH is convinced his OW made him a better man for me. Obviously, I disagree. He still loves her. Tell me...was there anything your BS told you that helped if you ever felt those emotions?

It's killing me. I can't comprehend how he thinks she was his friend when she willingly participated in an EA and helped him shut me out and shut her in.


In the process of D.

Posts: 466 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: Kentucky/Ohio
painandanxiety
♀ Member
Member # 19631
Default  Posted: 6:49 PM, June 15th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My BH never said anything that made me feel differently about my OM. My therapist made me realize he was a toxic person who played me like a fiddle, who was never my friend, who never had my best interests at heart, and whom I never ever loved. Sure, I loved the idea of him, but not him.

If the "breakup" is new, he is in the fog and still thinks OW is great.

Someday, she will fall from her pedestal, and it's a long way down.


It didn't matter that happy ever after was bull, because it was all pretend anyway.
-Nora Roberts


Filed for divorce, and very mutual and amicable.

Me- WW 26yo, no kids, married @ 24
Him- BH 38yo, I am his second divorce.


Posts: 292 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Orange County, CA
caeliste
♀ New Member
Member # 22524
Default  Posted: 8:34 PM, June 15th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To all WS's:

Is it possible for the WS to continue a friendship with the OW, and actually have that be healthy. I know that the automatic response is a resounding NO...but I need to know if there is any possibility of that happening.

My WS will not go NC...in fact, has said to me that maintaining her friendship with OW is helping her create boundaries. She says there is no more romantic or sexual element to their friendship...that they are "just friends" and nothing more.

I've asked her repeatedly to go NC and she flat out will not do it. I even told her that if she refuses NC, I will leave the relationship. But she hasn't...and I haven't.


Me: BS, 30
Her: WS, 28
(Both women)

Posts: 50 | Registered: Jan 2009
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, June 16th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Gonna try to catch up on some of these...

funny story -

Can anyone shed some light on why this may have happened? I'm very confused about it am getting very frustrated at the fact that now it's gone and we can't seem to get it back.

A few thoughts come to mind. First, while in the middle of an A the WS is in a fantasy world. The reality and pressures of life are blotted out as relationships take over. I almost lost everything - family, career, the whole thing - because I had set them all aside for the A.

So now R starts, but reality also reenters. Daily pressures - work, kids, etc. - draw energy and focus away from intimacy. It takes effort to make sure that time is made available to counter these pressures and just focus on each other.

Second, my experience (which was with online cheating) was that both parties exchanged a lot of conversation about what got them going. In other words, they taught each other what felt good to them or what they fantasized about. Now it's back to a couple who may have been together for decades, but never taught each other what made them feel best. I'm not saying it has to be in a clinical sense (step 1, do this...), but at least general ideas of what foreplay gets things going, what things are a turn off and shut things down, etc.

Last, because sexual topics are discussed between AP's, there can be a concern that a certain action may bring back memories to the FWS of their AP. If the FWS is trying to block that person out in an effort to leave them behind, they may avoid introducing those actions to avoid those memories from occurring.

rosieposy -

My question is do you FWS ever compare your spouse to OP?

My A was an EA (nearly PA), so I can't provide a direct answer. Indirectly based on conversations and general interaction though, I would say no. People are very different, and there has been no comparing in my mind about what "could have been" with xMOW and my BW. In fact, my full focus is on my BW and how she makes me feel. Those with PA experience may feel differently. But for me there's no comparing.

SooooSad - you have a PM.

Thehurtgoeson -

I am just very curious from those of you who have been there what was he really saying in this note?

13 days from initial NC? There's plenty of fog still in that head of his. He's trying to do the "right thing" while softening the blow and not looking like a bad guy to OW. I don't think he intends on leaving the door open. Just trying not to have more of his ego come crashing down by the thought of being hated by OW.

I get the concern over being second prize. But until enough time has passed for his fog to clear and for him to state his thoughts and feelings without the influence of OW on his brain, there's no way for him to know how he feels about you and what priority you have in his life.

Raoul -

Once its gone this long, is it too long?

It's not about the length of the fog, but the conditions that create it. As long as your WW is with OM, her common sense will not kick in. There may be a few examples out there as exceptions, but I'm a firm believer that there is a 0% chance of R when the WS is still in contact of any kind with their AP.

You can make yourself available all you want. But she has to want to change. You can't control her actions, nor what she wants. You can only be prepared in the event she does go NC before the D is final to give her firm direction on the things she has to do to get better (IC, honesty, transparency, etc.).

TO -

Why would a WS protect their ow when they are caught instead of their BS.

At first, it's because the lingering fog still tells the brain that the AP is someone you still care about and don't want to hurt. As time goes on, some guilt kicks in (the same guilt that was bypassed during the A) because so much character has been shredded it's agony to think that yet another person thinks the WS is a jerk.

survivor -

He still loves her. Tell me...was there anything your BS told you that helped if you ever felt those emotions?

This feels like heavy fog and honestly the potential that contact is still in place. It softens the severity of A, and is an effort to selfishly keep the WS from being seen in a bad light of any kind. It's an extension of protecting the AP (look how good this person is).

caeliste -

Is it possible for the WS to continue a friendship with the OW, and actually have that be healthy.

I'd love to say yes, but my answer has to be no. As long as the "friendship" continues, the OP continues to feed the ego of the WS. This prevents the WS form facing the fact that they need to develop healthy ways of building their own self esteem as they will keep getting the pats on the back from the AP. Eventually, reality will deal you a down cycle, and the support of the AP will be too much for the WS to resist because they still will not have the skills to get themselves through the tough times.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
EmptyCup
♀ Member
Member # 22909
Default  Posted: 1:52 PM, June 16th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

caeliste - I'm sorry to say it, but I think she's very clearly choosing to disregard your wishes over her own. Refusing to end the friendship is extremely selfish after the pain she's inflicted on you. Selfishness is a key ingredient to all affairs. I think she's keeping the EA alive by maintaining an emotional connection to the OW. Even if that weren't the case, by refusing to stop something that is so hurtful to you, she's not taking the steps necessary to help you heal.

She's a cake-eater, and it's up to you whether or not you will stand for it.


FWW, reconciled with my best friend <3

Nothing much but love to give you, even less have I to hide - Tim O'Brien


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Feb 2009
TICKED OFF
♀ Member
Member # 8291
Default  Posted: 3:20 PM, June 16th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Listening......you should really think about writing a book. You could help out so many people with your wisdom and experience in all this drama. I am not kidding either. Your answers are honest and open and what's more, you take the time to respond as a way to help us all out.


Posts: 2390 | Registered: Sep 2005
funny story
♀ Member
Member # 16855
Default  Posted: 5:26 PM, June 16th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Last, because sexual topics are discussed between AP's, there can be a concern that a certain action may bring back memories to the FWS of their AP. If the FWS is trying to block that person out in an effort to leave them behind, they may avoid introducing those actions to avoid those memories from occurring.

Well, what if in the act of blocking out the AP, they are blocking out everything intimate that they shared with their spouse as well?


And I'm sorry to sound very blunt here, but why would he be a good lover (a great lover) during the A, and then now that we are in R, he is not? And I'm not saying that to be mean or rude or anything, but sex is just not satisfying for me at all at this point.

And it sucks because we had that passion, now we don't...even if that passion was happening while someone else was also getting it.

I know it's in there, but maybe it's just never been meant for me...


(me) BW - (33)
WH - (37)
Married: 11 years
Children: DD - 11, DS - 8
D-Day: September 22, 2007

"I like long walks, especially when they are taken by people who annoy me."


Posts: 2128 | Registered: Nov 2007
Fallen
♀ Member
Member # 4313
Default  Posted: 6:05 PM, June 16th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

funnystory, you both have a lot of emotional baggage now that wasn't there before. Do you talk to him about how you are feeling? Chances are good that if you're feeling it, he is too.


You can't heal what you won't feel.

"There would be no grand absolution, only forgiveness meted out in these precious sips. It would well up from his heart in spoonfuls, and he would feed it to me. And it would be enough."


Posts: 23475 | Registered: May 2004
iwanttokillher
♀ Member
Member # 24178
Default  Posted: 6:20 PM, June 16th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

to the WS

first off if i put this in the wrong section...i apolojize..i have been trying to figure out how to post under this section. (like how to start a thread)


i have been trying to get the truth out of my WS for 1 1/2 years ...i am literally going mad...like to the point ....i think i'm just done...can't live with the questions in my head.

so my question is how do i nicely say...if u don't tell me..where done?
i really don't want it to sound like an ultimatum...it's just worn me plum out...i am sick of worrying, sick of wondering, so much so if i can't have the truth i don't think i can stomach to be around him anymore. it is not a punishment..i am really just sick n tired of my life revolving around this crap.

like just tell me ... let me breathe a lil..then let's just forget it completely.

how can i forgive what i don't know?


Posts: 161 | Registered: May 2009
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:01 PM, June 16th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

iwanttokillher -

so my question is how do i nicely say...if u don't tell me..where done?

What worked for my BW with me was being direct and not worrying about being nice. Let's face it, as a WS we weren't being nice when we did what we had no right to do.

Basically, the thing that shakes a WS out more often than not is being confronted with immediate consequences. I would just lay it on the line. He's got 24 hours (or whatever time frame you choose to accept) to be fully truthful or the D process starts.

For the WS, it's all about creating enough "limbo" to keep things going. The thing that breaks limbo is an either/or choice with no gray.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Raoul
♂ Member
Member # 23697
Default  Posted: 10:07 PM, June 16th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Listeningclosely,

Thanks. I think that she is really gone. She will not give up OM, spends as much time with him as she can. He is way too smart to give her any room to think.

I can wish it wa different. But I have kids to raise and a life to live.

Thanks for the straight and true advice.

Raoul


BS: Me 58 (180/Limited Contact 10/08)
WS: Her 51
Married: 24 years, 3 children 17, 15, 12
D-Day: August 2008 (Detectives)
She moved out October 2008
Divorce in process

Posts: 291 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: North America
diditagn
♀ Member
Member # 3433
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, June 17th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

EX WS Said I pushed him away? Can someone explain this?

Is there some way that might make you feel better about the reasons?


Happy people don't have the best things, they make the best with what they have.

Posts: 1556 | Registered: Feb 2004 | From: WI
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 11:57 AM, June 17th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

diditagn -

EX WS Said I pushed him away? Can someone explain this?

In my fog, I had all sorts of reasons that my BW was pushing me away. I would try to get close and she would push my arm away. I would want to talk with her and she would be too busy. I would look for positive affirmation from her and she would constantly criticize what and how I did things.

That was all through a distorted mirror that I created and xMOW added fuel to that fire. Piled on how she didn't understand how my BW couldn't see what a great guy she had and why she didn't treat me better.

As the fog lifted, a lot became much clearer. She wasn't pushing me away because she didn't want me close. My checking out from the family placed incredible burden on her to deal with everything - making her in essence a single Mom of four kids. When the day finally ended, she had been pawed at by the kids all day and the last thing she needed was to be smothered by an insecure husband. The kids had been talking non stop all day to the point where her head hurt and my talking would push her over the edge. She busted her tail around here with almost no support from me, so the last thing she was going to want to do was to tell me what a great guy I was.

Since pulling my head out of my butt, I've been working much harder to contribute more around the house. And you know what? Now my BW has energy and desire to be closer to me. Funny how the more you give, the more you get in return. But when you're blinded by the fog of an A, you just don't see that.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
survivor78
♀ Member
Member # 23703
Default  Posted: 10:47 PM, June 18th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My best friend just told me she is having an A. She wants to D her H. That is all I know. It was like she broke, texted me this, then won't talk about it.

Please help me on how to respond to her. I love her so much this is killing me. She is very messed up, I see.

Also, in reference to my former post about my WH saying that OW made him a better man for me...this was an EA with a woman he was engaged to several years before he met me. I don't know if he will ever realize he had an EA (he thinks if no sex, then no A), or how this complicates matters with love, etc., since at one time he was legitimately in love with her. I don't know how to process all this, and I don't think the MC is either. Have any of you ever had an ex for OP? Please provide some insight if you did.

Thanks.

[This message edited by survivor78 at 10:49 PM, June 18th (Thursday)]


In the process of D.

Posts: 466 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: Kentucky/Ohio
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 2:05 PM, June 19th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

survivor -

My best friend just told me she is having an A.


Please help me on how to respond to her.

My best friends were instrumental in helping me. None of them supported the affair itself (they yelled at me - when are you going to stop dissin' your husband??? it's time for you to grow up, etc.), but they all unequivocably stood by me.

One friend warned me - "don't sleep with him (AP), don't sleep with him, but even if you do, keep talking to me, I will not stop talking to you." She also threatened me: "if you kill yourself, I swear, I will dig you up and kill you again." I was so blessed with this friend.

They listened without judging - they let me talk it out. They let me know they were there for whenever I needed to talk. And if I didn't want to talk, that was fine, too, but they were there.

Tell her you are there for her. Tell her you will listen if she wants to talk. Make it a safe place for her - she has enough self-hatred going on. It's okay to give her a 2x4 every now and then, but make you and her a safe haven. Let her talk and talk and talk. She probably cannot handle a lot of talk from you at this point - your work, your feelings, etc. Let her talk. Tell her you still love her and you will help her.

[This message edited by UnexpectedSong at 2:11 PM, June 19th (Friday)]


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
eyes2thehills
♀ Member
Member # 24094
Default  Posted: 2:57 AM, June 20th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I went to counseling yesterday. We talked about boundaries to protect our M. It went really, really well. I was feeling really good about things until tonight. My H now says that he feels that I am making him responsible for my "leg" of the marriage. He feels that I expect him to work on his stuff, our marrital stuff, and heal me too. Am I asking too much to want him to establish the boundaries (which he says he is fine with), to show empathy and care and to be humble? I don't get it...am I passing off my responsibilities in healing onto him? What exactly IS a WSs responsibility in the healing process outside of protecting the M from another A?

Posts: 174 | Registered: May 2009
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, June 20th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

eyes2thehills -

He feels that I expect him to work on his stuff, our marrital stuff, and heal me too.

The conventional SI wisdom is that, yes, the WS should put aside his or her pain and help the BS heal, because the pain is inflicted by the WS. I completely agree with this in theory, but I could not handle it. Unfortunately, my H had to do the majority of the "healing" for both of us. He had to step back, he had to put aside his pain, he did so much to help me.

I don't know if this is what your WH is going through. I know that if my H had not stepped up more than he was ever supposed to do, then I would have spent the past six months sleeping.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
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