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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's II
painfulandhurt
♂ Member
Member # 22666
Default  Posted: 10:58 AM, May 28th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Tickedoff,

Does the embarrassment that the WS feels after getting caught in an a ever truly go away, especially if all of your family and friends know about it? Is there a time when the WS can feel less guilty? Is there ever a time when a WS can truly come to peace with themselves, especially if they live on the same block as the op, or even those that still work with the op?

This is kind a complicated answer to your question. I also posted some of these thoughts in my big thread in general and in a reply today to hurtingbigtime in the R forum.

The long an short of it though is GUILT and EMBARASSMENT are just temporary strong feelings that eventually become lesser feelings. Do they ever go away? Yes and no. I think the thing that determines this though is how the feelings were originally produced.

A good example of what I mean by temp vs. long term - if I walk outside in the winter and slip and fall on my keister splitting open my pants in front of a huge group of female co-workers - I may be embarassed, i may never forget, but that will go away. Or if I accidently sneezed on the lunch meat tray when no one was looking and I didn't say anything as I watched everyone else eat - I would feel guilty about it but I would get over it.

In the case of an A though, (at least for me) these are feelings that will be very difficult to let go even over the long term. These are things that will haunt me because there are so many other feelings that are wrapped up into beyond the guilt or embarassment. Will they fade over time? that is difficult to say as well. I am only a year out so they have not faded one iota for me.

I am however, trying to come to peace with this and just learn to accept some ugly things about myself. I am not there quite yet so again I cannot fully answer this. But I do suspect I can and will at some future point. It will also though become ingrained into my personality andcharacter, so I can take the lessons I am learning and have already learned, to ensure I dodn't choose to do something this stupid ever again.

Just an opinion...


WS - 30's (Me) BS - 30's (her)
M >10y
1 DS/DD
DDay# 05/2008
R / S / D - Im not sure and it changes moment to moment.

Posts: 359 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: lost...
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 11:49 AM, May 28th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ticked Off -

Does the embarrassment that the WS feels after getting caught in an a ever truly go away, especially if all of your family and friends know about it? Is there a time when the WS can feel less guilty?

I don't know. So far, for me, it has not, and I don't see it going away. I live in hell that I created, knowing that my affair eclipses everything that I have ever done or ever been, for the rest of my life.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6043 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
TICKED OFF
♀ Member
Member # 8291
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, May 28th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"painfulandhurt", in reference to your post, WHAT ARE the things that will haunt you and WHAT ARE the feelings that are wrapped up into and beyond the guilt and embarrassment."

And "Unexpected"...as a BS I shouldn't feel sorry for you or any other WS who have created the hell you live in (in your words)....yet I do feel sorry for the hurt and pain we all feel no matter who threw us into this mess.

I asked this question because I often wonder what is on my h's mind as he passes ow's house which is every day since they live next to us. It has been 5 years now, but I know it still haunts him to this very day. He never says anything about it, but I know it bothers him.


Posts: 2381 | Registered: Sep 2005
painfulandhurt
♂ Member
Member # 22666
Default  Posted: 2:09 PM, May 28th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok Tickedoff - to the specifics of:

WHAT ARE the things that will haunt you and WHAT ARE the feelings that are wrapped up into and beyond the guilt and embarrassment

This is what haunts me:

That my through my selfish choices that I disrespected myself, my wife, and my children. That I would allow my behavior to get to the point I was willing to take advantage of other people, that I lied to my BW, that I willingly engaged in deception, that I manipulated others to my own benefit, that I stole time from my family, that I stole emotion from my wife and children that was rightfully theirs, that I gave information about my marriage instead of protecting it, that I put my family at risk from others whom I knew nothing about, that I toyed with other peoples lives and emotions damaging them, that I devestated my wife's viewpoint of me that I can never regain, that I lost the respect of those around me, that I have invariably damaged my children's ability to grow up in a normal household, that I have essentially stole from them a piece of saftey they count on me for, That I engaged in deviant behavior to achieve my own selfish ends, that I represented myself falsely to manipulate, that i can not take back anything that I have done or said, that acted like a predator, that I am not a good person, that I was willing to potentially engage in risky sexual behavior that could have killed my BW (I never had sex with anyone but the intention is enough), That I have lost that look of love and adoration in my wife's eyes and will never be able to reclaim it, that I have caused my wife to doubt her self, that I have inflicted my wife to now question her looks, that I have put my wife in a position she belives she is second choice,, that I have made my wife feel like nothing more than a warm wet hole to be used for my amusement, that i have knocked down her self worth, that I have destroyed her trust, that I shattered our marriage vows, that I brought pornography into our home, that I abandoned my christian walk, that I lost faith, that I let myself down, that I threw aside boundaries, that I flirted with women in front of my wife and the disrespect that caused her...

And so many more things all caused by my own deplorable choices and most importantly to not be the man, husband, father, and friend I promised to be.

That is what HAUNTS ME.

The feelings that are wrapped into all that beyond gulit and embarassment,

Pain, shame, loathing, sadness, anger, bitterness, resentment, remorse, defeat, sickness, hate, ordinary, stupid, ignorant, deceptive, secretive, anxious, agitation, irritation, etc.

I feel every emotion you can belive but the negatives are so accute they all at some point become painful or hurting in some way.

So will I ever forget....no...will I learn from this...absolutely

I hope that makes sense...if you want to understand me(a WS) at least little more here is my mega post:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=293594&AP=81

try there...

[This message edited by painfulandhurt at 2:10 PM, May 28th (Thursday)]


WS - 30's (Me) BS - 30's (her)
M >10y
1 DS/DD
DDay# 05/2008
R / S / D - Im not sure and it changes moment to moment.

Posts: 359 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: lost...
hurt789
♀ Member
Member # 20937
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, May 28th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For any WS's out there.
How did you, do you, compare your A relationship to your M relationship? Did you put more working into one than the other during the A? Emotional work...I am asking because I have read the 5 languages of love. This pretty much describes the kind of A my WH had. I know this from questions I have asked him, plus it was a LTA. I guess I am trying to figure out how to handle this. He knows how to have a loving, caring relationship to help each other grow. Hell, she read every Dr. Phil book, the Awakening, ect to help thier relationship (dumbass me thought it was to fix her marriage )
How do I let my WH just do it all over again with me.
He says that all the things he did for her and her family were to "get what he wanted" that there was no meaning to them, but I know he is only saying that to try and not hurt my feelings any more. His actions during the A do not match up with the feelings he said he had.
I guess I really dont know what I am asking - I just need to know how and what some other WS were feeling.


BS 40
WS 43
MARRIED 20
TOGATHER 22
1 PERFECT DAUGHTER
DDAY7/13/08
LTA - ALWAYS


Posts: 240 | Registered: Sep 2008
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, May 28th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fyrepixie -

any WS here try to R, get sucked in by OP again and leave your BS...come to your senses and gone back to BS and it actually work out then???

Not my sitch, but I'll bump your question in hopes someone else can respond.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 2:36 PM, May 28th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TO -

Does the embarrassment that the WS feels after getting caught in an a ever truly go away, especially if all of your family and friends know about it? Is there a time when the WS can feel less guilty? Is there ever a time when a WS can truly come to peace with themselves, especially if they live on the same block as the op, or even those that still work with the op?

My A is not something I could ever forget. It is a part of me, and always will be.

I'm not sure that what I feel now is so much embarrassment or guilt. It's more a lingering disappointment in myself for making the choices I did. And deep seated remorse for the pain I caused Wells in the process.

When I am in xMOW's city, even just on a connecting flight, it is definitely a reminder of the damage I have done. The important thing is to have adjusted to a "new normal" where it is a part of who I am, yet does not define my happiness or sadness.

It's like a person who has a heart attack in their 40's and survives. The altered diet, the exercise and therapy routine, the meds are all reminders of the result of the damage their body sustained. Yet that same person can learn to enjoy healthy foods, can learn to like exercise activities, and become benign to the meds they take each day. It is their "new normal", and they are still capable of living a very happy life under the altered circumstances.

That's what I'm aiming for in the end. To understand the disappointment I carry each day, yet still be able to say I am a truly happy man.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Ceva
♀ Member
Member # 23962
Default  Posted: 4:13 PM, May 28th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WSs, this is for you if:

If you are in R with your BS...

and if you were not in love with OW during A. (maybe infatuated or considered it but in the end you wanted to remain married and NOT be with OP)

My WH wants to R badly, and I do too- BUT, intimacy is a big problem for me.

I want to know from the WSs, when you are now intimate with your BS, do you think of the OP?

Do you compare us?

Do you wonder if we are thinking about the OP and you together?

My WH is able to 'perform' IYKWIM. But I cannot help but wonder if he is ever thinking of HER.

He told me the only time he thinks of her now is when I bring her up. That the entire A makes him ill.

But when we are intimate, do WS still 'go back' to the OP at all? Ever?

He is doing everything right and is showing me great love, but I still cannot help but wonder, IS HE STILL THINKING OF HER WHEN WE ARE INTIMATE? Does she pop nto his mind?

Any insights are greatly appreciated.

[This message edited by Ceva at 4:17 PM, May 28th (Thursday)]


ME: BS 43
Him: WH 44...9 month PA w/ co-worker
WH: wants R
me: not sure...back to square 1: total devastation
Dday(Trickle Truth) April 12-May 8 2009
married 20 years
2 yr old son-light of my life

Posts: 147 | Registered: May 2009 | From: western USA
TICKED OFF
♀ Member
Member # 8291
Default  Posted: 12:34 AM, May 29th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

bump for Ceva. Good question. Needs an expert to answer it.

Posts: 2381 | Registered: Sep 2005
Ceva
♀ Member
Member # 23962
Default  Posted: 9:12 AM, May 29th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No WS seem to want to touch this one!!!

hmmmmmmmm...makes a girl wonder.......


ME: BS 43
Him: WH 44...9 month PA w/ co-worker
WH: wants R
me: not sure...back to square 1: total devastation
Dday(Trickle Truth) April 12-May 8 2009
married 20 years
2 yr old son-light of my life

Posts: 147 | Registered: May 2009 | From: western USA
Fallen
♀ Member
Member # 4313
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, May 29th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Since the other wonderful WSes have already answered questions like these many times over, my response was unnecessary. Please help us help you by reading the older posts in this entire ICR thread. Thanks!

[This message edited by Fallen at 9:42 AM, May 29th (Friday)]


You can't heal what you won't feel.

"There would be no grand absolution, only forgiveness meted out in these precious sips. It would well up from his heart in spoonfuls, and he would feed it to me. And it would be enough."


Posts: 23475 | Registered: May 2004
TICKED OFF
♀ Member
Member # 8291
Default  Posted: 9:24 AM, May 29th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bump one more time for Ceva's question.

Posts: 2381 | Registered: Sep 2005
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 9:26 AM, May 29th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ticked...

Its not necessary to bump anything on this thread.

The WS's are doing the BS's a FAVOR by even being here in the first place.

And Ceva...the next time you want to throw some sarcistic comment like that out again, it will be your last time.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 191749 | Registered: May 2002
Fallen
♀ Member
Member # 4313
Default  Posted: 9:35 AM, May 29th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks DS.


You can't heal what you won't feel.

"There would be no grand absolution, only forgiveness meted out in these precious sips. It would well up from his heart in spoonfuls, and he would feed it to me. And it would be enough."


Posts: 23475 | Registered: May 2004
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 9:54 AM, May 29th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, DS and Fallen.


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 11:44 AM, May 29th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ceva -

when you are now intimate with your BS, do you think of the OP?

He is doing everything right and is showing me great love

I am sorry that you are hurting and I understand you need to know this. However, I am going to deliberately sidestep your questions, because I believe you already know the answers - based on what you know of your husband and common sense.

May I suggest that actions speak louder than thoughts or words? So many times, the BSes are saying to watch the actions of the WS. If he says he's sorry, but he does not act it, well, you should trust the actions more than his words. Can you trust the other side, too? Your husband not only says he is sorry and remorseful, but his actions back up his statements. Can you let time ease your worries a little bit?

[This message edited by UnexpectedSong at 11:45 AM, May 29th (Friday)]


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6043 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
bear
♂ Member
Member # 19859
Default  Posted: 2:05 PM, May 29th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ceva, I've actually been thinking alot about your question, and have been trying to construct an answer that will help you. I keep coming around to the same conclusion: this is a unique reality to each individual. In my case, for instance, the answer is No (I don't 'think' about xOW when I am making love to my wife). Now, if you were to ask whether or not there were comparative differences, and did I ever think about those, the answer would have been 'yes', but not while I was being intimate with my wife. Sex with my wife was always good, and I focused my energy on what I was doing at the time. I'm sure there are plenty of WSs who absolutely had the OP on their mind during sex with their BS. Generalizing on this would be unfair and presumptuous.

The bigger question is whether or not YOU think about it now. Your WH may be telling you the honest to goodness truth, but if you can't believe it, his words will have no value. Truthfulness is not exactly the first thing that pops into your mind when it comes to a WS.

I can tell you that I became addicted to the sex with xOW. She had a certain sexual rhythm about her that I got hooked on. In my addictive, foggy mind it was the best sex I had ever experienced. Even writing this down drags me back to the 'feelings' of euphoria, and is part of the reason answering your question is so difficult.

My wife is a really good sexual partner, and she has a rhythm about her that is unique to her. After nearly 40 years, it has become pretty familiar. I'd have to go back to the fall of 1970 to make a fair 'comparison'about sex between my BW and xOW, because of the emotional intensity during those early days versus the emotional intensity of my affair with xOW. This 'reality' might be unique to me, but I'd imagine that many WSs have experienced something similar.

I realize that what you'd like to hear is that the OP never enters the WS's mind during sex with their BS, but it's impossible to answer the question for every WS. You have to determine whether or not you can overcome your own mental struggle with this issue. If you cannot, then it really doesn't make much difference what your WS says.

bear


WH (me): 59
BW: 56
M: 34 years
Together: 38 years
2 DDs: 21 & 25
d'day: 2-11-2008
A: EA & PA 6 months


Posts: 102 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: South
icbtih8
♀ Member
Member # 23797
Default  Posted: 3:57 PM, May 29th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

sorry if this question has been asked before.

my WH wrote some pretty romantic stuff over IM and email to 6 or 7 different women ("i miss you," "you are the only woman i think about," "i wish i had gone to Europe with you," etc.) and he used his pet name to me on all of them. he says that when he said it, it meant nothing to him. that he said it because he liked the conquest/chase. if any WS have experienced this, could it be possible to say these things and not mean it? i just don't understand that concept. one of my personal mottos is "say what you mean and mean what you say." TIA


D-day #1 - April 29, 2009

Beauty is a calling...a call "to transfigure what has harden or was wounded within you"
-- John O'Donohue


Posts: 5424 | Registered: Apr 2009
TICKED OFF
♀ Member
Member # 8291
Default  Posted: 4:24 PM, May 29th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Let me say that I do so appreciate the answers that the WS give to us. They are most valuable and mean more to us than you could even know. They are the one link to any hope that we as BS's have in understanding the makings of an a.

Let me also say, that I have PM'd many a WS personally thanking them for their answers to sometimes very difficult questions. "Listening", painfulandhurt, Bear"...all of them are awesome and I do thank them for their honesty. After all, you are the ones who answer the questions that our own WS can't or won't answer for us. Because of this, I applaud and thank you.

Just wanted to clear the air.

[This message edited by TICKED OFF at 4:48 PM, May 29th (Friday)]


Posts: 2381 | Registered: Sep 2005
the fsc
♂ Member
Member # 23028
Default  Posted: 9:53 PM, May 29th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FP...

any WS here try to R, get sucked in by OP again and leave your BS...come to your senses and gone back to BS and it actually work out then???

Getting "sucked in" by the OP would imply that she has some sort of power over your WS. And it also voids him of any responsibility at all, as he is seemingly "entranced" by this OP.

On the contrary, he is quite responsible for his actions, both then, AND now. He is a grown up, he is a father, he is a husband...with all the responsibilities that those positions entail.

I've been away from SI for a while due to work related items...but I remember reading about the incident with your daughter. Your WS seemed to be in control of his senses at that time, and he publicly humuliated your daughter.

His actions are inexcusable...

Please...do yourself a favor and do an honest 180. Bluntly?...you need to carry on as if he isn't there at all. He will never stop cake-eating until you do...that is a reality.

Harsh? Maybe...but as a member in good standing (at least I hope) of SI, and as a former wayward, I just can't stand to see him take advantage of your kindness and forgiveness.

Do yourself a favor...do your children a favor...and do a real 180, for as long as necessary.


WH - (45) Me
BS - (44) Her (Redrock)

D Day 3/23/2008
Easter


Posts: 165 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Michigan
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