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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's II
Listeningclosely
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Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 11:56 AM, May 26th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

icbtih8 -

If a WS refuses to take a lie detector, do you think it means the WS is hiding more information?

Not necessarily. There are a few possibilities:

If the WS is still trickle truthing, then their resistance to a lie detector would be fear over the information not yet revealed.

If the WS has shared the full story, going into the test they are placed in a potential situation stacked 67% against them and 33% for them. If they pass, great. But if they fail due to a false negative, it's an even bigger loss for them than if they had still been lying. In essence, they told the truth and still were penalized for it.

So there would be fear in a WS whether they had told the truth or not. Based on different reasons, but the outcome is still as detrimental.

With all of this said, the reason a WS would fear the test is irrelevant. Because this is now about what you need as a BS. If there is no other way for you to be able to move forward on your healing journey, then the test is required and the WS will have to "suck it up" and hope the truth is supported by the test. It's just another part of the consequences of the mess created by the WS ourselves.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
lostandafraid
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Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, May 26th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is a question for WW's with children.......

I can almost understand how things can happen that make you feel less desire or love for your S - but how do you go about reconiling having an A without thinking about the effects it would have on your kids? Serious question - not being ugly about it. I'm asking for this reason....

I had a recent run in with FMOW in my H's place of work (fast food restaurant) had very quietly but directly led her to believe that if she didn't get out of there, and ever came back again, I would be inclined to teach her DS some new words - like whore, slut and home wrecker.

I don't have kids- but I understand the protective nature of parenthood and knew this would do the trick - and it did.

She is 100% clearn on my stance - stay out or else. So in my eyes, she can stay away and shield or son, or go to the next step and pay the price.

What are your thougths on this as a WW? Can you see my side on this?

[This message edited by lostandafraid at 1:41 PM, May 26th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 2706 | Registered: Oct 2008
EmptyCup
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Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, May 26th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lostandafraid - I can see where you're coming from, but during the affair I guess I compartmentalized enough to not think about my kids. I never thought they would be affected (even as I was spending less time with them so I could communicate with xOM). I never intended to break up my marriage. When I say that, my husband reminds me that it wasn't necessarily going to be my choice, especially if the A had continued, and he's right. But I didn't think about that either. I was lost in my fantasy world and that was that.

Now that I'm firmly back in my wonderful reality, I would never think about doing anything to jeopardize my kids.

I don't know if that helps you at all, but that's where my head was.


FWW, reconciled with my best friend <3

Nothing much but love to give you, even less have I to hide - Tim O'Brien


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Feb 2009
lostandafraid
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Default  Posted: 1:41 PM, May 26th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Am I "horrible" for using that particular "weapon" against her.

I feel like I'm at war, and if that weapon works, then it works.

I feel like - if she didn't think about her kids and had an A -then why should I worry about them?


Posts: 2706 | Registered: Oct 2008
EmptyCup
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Member # 22909
Default  Posted: 1:49 PM, May 26th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lost - I don't think you're horrible. To be honest, I would think it was horrible if you actually did it, but as a threat, if it scares her away, it's not terrible. However, if NC is established she should certainly be told that you will go for a restraining order if she continues to come near your husband.

Edited to add: and tell her husband you found her there too.

[This message edited by EmptyCup at 1:50 PM, May 26th (Tuesday)]


FWW, reconciled with my best friend <3

Nothing much but love to give you, even less have I to hide - Tim O'Brien


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Feb 2009
UnexpectedSong
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Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 2:17 PM, May 26th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lostandafraid -

Am I "horrible" for using that particular "weapon" against her.

You need to use whatever weapons will achieve your end. Just be aware of the mother tiger instincts. There are very few things that would stop me if my children were threatened.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
painfulandhurt
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Member # 22666
Default  Posted: 2:38 PM, May 26th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

icbtih8 - I am in 100% agreement with LC here.

Eyes2theHills -

Based on his answers, I can understand wanting to control one's own self and destiny - the issue I have with it though is in how he is going about it....

Now based on behaviors I am with LC - so when you say:

To me, this is saying: I want you to sacrifice your sense of safety and care so that I can do what I want and feel in control of my life. Simply put, it says: I don't care about you.

That does ring true for me as well. He hasn't quite dug into himself enough to know he is having boundary issues. I don't know that I would say though that he may be thinking that he does not care about you. I would say more to the point that - I would ask him that question specifically and tell him exactly what you typed.

Such as: When you X, What I am hearing is X and I feel X about it.

Maybe that would help him get it?

So, since I CAN'T control him, despite what he thinks, I have to choose to live with his behaviors or not. And I feel stuck. I love the man, though I'm not in love. And I want to keep our family together for our kids. But selfishly, I want a man who will love me first.

I bolded out pieces of you reply that I wanted to touch...Yes the only person you can control is yourself. You can not make someone do something or feel something. That being said - when you say - I feel stuck - I actually know that is how my BW feels. She feels stuck because I am not agreeing to her wishes for a D or S. She feels powerless in doing anything to change the situation which just helps to build her resentment towards me.

The truth is: If she really wanted to change the situation, she could take steps to change it. I am not holding her or telling her what to do. She is doing that to herself. So, I understand what you are saying and the feelings associated but it is the fear of doing that is providing the feeling of stuck. kwim?

To move pass stuck, you have to get past the fear. The ILYBNILWY - this is generally what a number of WS's use in there talks at some point with their BS. This is something I never understood and I have pushed my BS enough that I finally got - I don't love you anymore. This is something I can not relate to - you either love someone or you don't, maybe that's my black and white thinking but - it is how I see it. Love comes from taking loving actions so when someone say what your saying, what I read is - I am afraid to show my WH loving actions because ( Fill in the Blank). That is something I can understand, so I have no advice there.

When you say 'I want a man who will put me first', I think that is a healthy and normal thing (not Selfish at all). In a relationship, easpecially Marriage, it is VITALLY important for each partner to put the other above everyone else. With an A, you have in essence been relegated to 2nd place. That is also normal. In order to feel first, your WH is going to have to do the work and provide the actions to return you to the position you deserve.

Ultimately it is going to be up to you how long your willing to wait for it and whether you feel heis making progress. I always say, watch the actions - ignore the words.

To me - I look at it simply as - Why would I want to put myself in a potential situation where I am tempted to cross boundaries I knew I already crossed?

This shows care about protecting your marriage. Did you instantly feel this way or did it take time? How did you come to see this as necessary?

This is a re-written boundary that I will now enforce because it has no wiggle room and has been expanded to cover more situations that could occur. No it was not instant, this came after realizing I had boundaries but did not understand the weaknesses in them. As I came to understand the weaknesses, I also learned how I could strengthen them to prevent a re-occurence of A or A like activity. So, it takes time and introspection to understand them. I also read some books that helped me through this and IC helped me nail them down.


So in short the answer I have is no it is not ok, why would I want to hurt myself more? If he isn't able to see that timebomb waiting to happen - then he hasn't dug into himself enough to fully understand why he crossed boundaries in the first place.

How can I encourage him to do this...or can I do anything at all? I'm unsure of my role in this.

This is the part that is difficult on the BS. A WS has to be willing, able, and have the guts to do this work. It is not easy and not for the faint hearted. It forces a WS to face some very ugly things about themselves.

I think a BS's role in WS recovery is not much different than a WS's role in a BS's recovery. It takes compassion and empathy. Granted a WS has a lot more to do but those are the basic components.

To encourage him, it depends on him. Encouragement can be seen as a form of trying to control, so instead - I say offer choices and consequences. Such as, I think it would be great if you would be willing to try and explain to me why you (fill in the blank). That type of statement is giving WS a choice to answer. If the say they 'don't know' you could go into the - when you say X I really hear X and it makes me feel X. - if they still do not want to answer - then consequences -

Since I can not understand the reasons why X and you chose not to X I need to do X to protect myself.

Encouranging, gives choice, and shows consequences. Other than that, it truly is a problem for a WS to deal with.

I don't know if that helps or not but it is my opinion.

[ETA - quick note - When you hear statements like I don't want to be controlled - gently ask [mind jujitsu ] - How do you feel you are being controlled and by whom? ]

[This message edited by painfulandhurt at 2:51 PM, May 26th (Tuesday)]


WS - 30's (Me) BS - 30's (her)
M >10y
1 DS/DD
DDay# 05/2008
R / S / D - Im not sure and it changes moment to moment.

Posts: 359 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: lost...
always learning
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Default  Posted: 2:46 PM, May 26th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Don't involve children.

It will only hurt and scar them. They won't actually process any words that come out of your mouth, they will just see a person attacking their mom and go into a survival and retreat mode.

If they ever see you anywhere else in town for years after it will be you they are afraid of and vilify as "the person that verbally attacked my mom".

I agree with Empty Cup if you want to use it as an "empty threat" that's fine but don't really make good with that threat.

My husband and I are both from divorced families so we both know first hand what divorce and affairs do to a family but we also both know what being in a family with unhappy moms and dads that don't get along also does to the family.

During my affair I really thought we could "get away" with no one finding out. That didn't happen obviously but both my husband and I and the OM and his wife have chosen to leave the kids out of our drama. We obviously don't get together anymore as families but my son has gone over to their house a few times with my husband doing the drop-off and pick-up.

I hope we all find our peace and happiness again soon. I am sorry you are dealing with this whole mess right now.


FWW - Me (42)
BH- Him (40)
Met '94, Married '96.
3 kids DS 13, DD, 8, DD 6.
D-Day December '08.
Status: Reconciling

Posts: 67 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: Midwest
lostandafraid
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Default  Posted: 3:00 PM, May 26th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Empty, Unexpected & Always - I hear you and I'm really trying to wrap my brain around this. But didn't each you "involve" your children when you decided to have an A, whether you thought you'd get caught or not, or wether you thought it would lead to a D or no. But now, as a BS trying to protect my M, I'm not supposed to involve them? I don't get it.

It's an honest, straight-forward question - I give you my word that I'm not trying to "poke sticks" at you - but this is what my brain keeps going back to.


Posts: 2706 | Registered: Oct 2008
beach
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Default  Posted: 3:13 PM, May 26th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lostandafraid,

She is 100% clearn on my stance - stay out or else. So in my eyes, she can stay away and shield or son, or go to the next step and pay the price.
Sounds like she will stay away from your H's restaurant.


But now, as a BS trying to protect my M, I'm not supposed to involve them?
IMO, as a recovered and remoseful FWW, I have learned that I cannot control other people's behavior, but my own. So... I cannot control what xOM's BS might do, however, I will deal with it head on as a responsible mature adult now and that's the price I must pay.

So do whatever you have to do to give yourself heal or satisfaction, but whatever you do, it is your responsibility to own it. We don't know the outcome, too. We cannot forcast and predict what is going to happen.

I am sorry that you are strugling and hurting.

[This message edited by beach at 3:15 PM, May 26th (Tuesday)]


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
UnexpectedSong
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Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 3:17 PM, May 26th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lostandafraid -

But didn't each you "involve" your children when you decided to have an A, whether you thought you'd get caught or not, or wether you thought it would lead to a D or no. But now, as a BS trying to protect my M, I'm not supposed to involve them?

This is very difficult to explain. In the same way that if a husband and wife have an argument (finances, friends, in-laws, work, whatever) and it does not involve the kids, my A did not involve my kids. I knew all along that whatver happened, whether my H kicked me out or not, I would be there for my kids. My kids did not have anything to do with my A. Maybe this is compartmentalization... but really, inside, my A did not have anything to do with my kids.

I will admit to being a horrible wife, a horrible partner, a horrible woman, a horrible person. You can tell me that, by definition, a cheating wife is a bad mother. Heck, I probably already am a bad mother, in the first place. I will concede to all of that.

BUT I am still a mother. I will slay any monster that tries to hurt my kids, whether that "monster" is a bad therapist, the school district denying services, the kids' grandparents making hurtful comments, or someone who wants to hurt me through them.

In my response above, I said that you should use any means necessary to protect your marriage. But, just be aware that there could be repercussions if the mother instinct kicks in.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
lostandafraid
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Default  Posted: 4:45 PM, May 26th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the insights - it is helpful and I know its painful for each of you to look inside yourselves to help us try to understand a little better - so thanks very much.

Posts: 2706 | Registered: Oct 2008
Ceva
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Member # 23962
Default  Posted: 9:19 AM, May 27th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Questions for WSs who had co-worker Affairs:

Did you recognize when it went from being "just friends" to something more?

Was there a day, a moment, a lunch where one of you said something that made you feel as though, uh oh, this has gone into danger territory?

And if so, what made you feel as though you could or should continue to allow that to happen again?

What was in your mind at that pont? Was it about the excitement/intrigue/secrecy/sexual attraction?

Thanks for any insights you can provide..


ME: BS 43
Him: WH 44...9 month PA w/ co-worker
WH: wants R
me: not sure...back to square 1: total devastation
Dday(Trickle Truth) April 12-May 8 2009
married 20 years
2 yr old son-light of my life

Posts: 147 | Registered: May 2009 | From: western USA
EmptyCup
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Default  Posted: 9:26 AM, May 27th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is very difficult to explain. In the same way that if a husband and wife have an argument (finances, friends, in-laws, work, whatever) and it does not involve the kids, my A did not involve my kids. I knew all along that whatver happened, whether my H kicked me out or not, I would be there for my kids. My kids did not have anything to do with my A. Maybe this is compartmentalization... but really, inside, my A did not have anything to do with my kids.

I will admit to being a horrible wife, a horrible partner, a horrible woman, a horrible person. You can tell me that, by definition, a cheating wife is a bad mother. Heck, I probably already am a bad mother, in the first place. I will concede to all of that.

BUT I am still a mother. I will slay any monster that tries to hurt my kids, whether that "monster" is a bad therapist, the school district denying services, the kids' grandparents making hurtful comments, or someone who wants to hurt me through them.

In my response above, I said that you should use any means necessary to protect your marriage. But, just be aware that there could be repercussions if the mother instinct kicks in.

I agree with all of this too. I just didn't see my kids as being involved. I know that's naive because the affair could have ended differently and my husband might not have wanted to reconcile, which certainly would have affected them. I didn't see any of that at the time, though. Hell, I didn't even really see it as affecting my husband. Fantasyland all around.


FWW, reconciled with my best friend <3

Nothing much but love to give you, even less have I to hide - Tim O'Brien


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Feb 2009
EmptyCup
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Member # 22909
Default  Posted: 9:31 AM, May 27th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Questions for WSs who had co-worker Affairs:

Did you recognize when it went from being "just friends" to something more?

Was there a day, a moment, a lunch where one of you said something that made you feel as though, uh oh, this has gone into danger territory?

And if so, what made you feel as though you could or should continue to allow that to happen again?

What was in your mind at that pont? Was it about the excitement/intrigue/secrecy/sexual attraction?

Thanks for any insights you can provide..

Mine wasn't a coworker, but he had been an online friend for several years.

I never thought of him at all as anything but a friend. I think somewhere inside I knew he might have a "crush" on me (which was later confirmed from some things he said during the A). From my perspective, though, there was one night on Facebook where we progressed from platonic conversation to flirting to full-out cybering. It was pretty clear we had moved into new territory. Maybe there had been some mild flirting in the week before that.

And I could have stopped. We gave each other outs so many times! We kept checking with each other to make sure we were ok. And we kept going, eventually getting emotionally attached.

It was very exciting and new, sexually thrilling too. It was fun and I wanted to do it, so I did. It fed my ego big time, all those insecurities I have were satisfied by it. For me, it wasn't enhanced by the secrecy.


FWW, reconciled with my best friend <3

Nothing much but love to give you, even less have I to hide - Tim O'Brien


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Feb 2009
UnexpectedSong
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Default  Posted: 2:09 PM, May 27th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ceva -

Not exactly a coworker affair, but...

Did you recognize when it went from being "just friends" to something more?

Like a lot of the Waywards, now looking back, I realize that the "moment" went back further than I'd thought. I think it was two weeks earlier than my original "cross-the-line" date when the thoughts in my mind changed. However, I didn't say or imply anything to him until two weeks later.

Was there a day, a moment, a lunch where one of you said something that made you feel as though, uh oh, this has gone into danger territory?

Oh gosh... this is very difficult. These are good questions. This is actually the first time that I am making myself really remember and articulate these thoughts.

After a farewell dinner, I texted him that he did not say goodbye - that was my first invitation. Then we exchanged some innocuous emails, and a week later, he emailed that he sensed I was withdrawing from him - that was his invitation.

And if so, what made you feel as though you could or should continue to allow that to happen again?

What was in your mind at that pont? Was it about the excitement/intrigue/secrecy/sexual attraction?

There was excitement. I thought he was good looking - he's probably very ugly in reality. He was a new friend. There was also some disbelief on my part - he couldn't possibly be interested in me, we're so different, he is in an entirely different world. Plus, he listened to me.

(My therapist said that listening, in and of itself, means nothing. People listen to each other in the initial stages of a relationship, then they get comfortable and stop listening. So, he said that did not make the xOM special.)

[This message edited by UnexpectedSong at 3:10 PM, May 27th (Wednesday)]


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
eyes2thehills
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Default  Posted: 3:28 PM, May 27th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Listening,

Thanks for your insight. It's ironic really, because our MC just challenged my H about selfishness. He said that we are either reacting or responding, and if we're reacting, we're thinking of ourself where as if we respond, we think of our mate. We either minister to someone or manipulate someone. Again, one looking out for your mate, the other looking out for yourself.

Its a tricky thing, selfishness. I think we are by nature selfish beings. I battle my own selfishness, and I think I battle it more now than ever. Before the A, I was opperating in a very co-dependent mindset: if he's ok, I'm ok, so I'll do whatever he wants and gloss over my own feelings and needs if it makes him happy. The funny thing is, it didn't work. I was bending over backwards to please him, and he was still dissatisfied. I can never be good enough to solve his lust issue. That is his to own. I no longer take responsibility for it.

But now, I see selfishness as survival. I know from past actions that he isn't looking out for me. So if I'm looking out for him and he's looking out for him, I'm lining myself up for fire. I'm on emotional empty and cannot - literally cannot - handle any more hurt. So I look out for myself. And now I'm asking him to look out for me too. That is selfish of me. But I think that if he could show me over time that he is considering me and our marriage, then I could let go of some of my selfishness and look out for him again. Hopefully in a non co-dependent way this time.

It means he is still focused selfishly on what he wants, without regard for how it impacts others around him.

I guess I'm to the point that this is not ok with me. It is crossing a boundary that I need in a marriage. We both need to consider the other. I've asked him to weigh every decision in light of these two questions: will it help or hurt the trust rebuilding process? Will is restore or undo feelings of love for one another? If we can both do that, I think we can make it. But if he refuses, I think our marriage is dead.

The key is that to date, your WS has not done enough work to show that he has "affair proofed" himself and made these things less concerning.

That's it in a nutshell for me. Couldn't have said it better. I've asked for two things: A list of attitudes and behaviors that lead to the A, and a list of boundaries that he will continue to uphold to ensure that he doesn't wade back into A waters (a relapse prevention plan, is another phrase I've read to describe it). The two should line up as far as I see it. He said he is willing. So now I wait.

The questions I would want answers to would be:

How have you changed from when the A took place that makes it safer for you to place yourself in these situations?

What steps are you willing to take to help me feel safe and secure in our M when you are involved in these areas, where boundaries are frequently crossed when skills are not there to handle them properly?

Thank you for these - excellent. I will print them out.

I really appreciate your help here, thank you.


Posts: 174 | Registered: May 2009
eyes2thehills
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Default  Posted: 4:03 PM, May 27th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Painful, I very much appreciate your insight. Thank you.

I agree that it is understandable to want to control one's own self. I think though, that what he sees as control, I see as care. I'm not saying that he has to do things my way, but I am asking that he include my feelings in his decisions...that we seek "win/win" solutions and care about each other in the process.

He hasn't quite dug into himself enough to know he is having boundary issues.

So, if this is the case, do I gently try to bring this to his attention, or would that be nagging and controlling? Is this a matter of patience (or rather my IMpatience) or am I not understanding how to help and support him in his journey?

I would ask him that question specifically and tell him exactly what you typed.

I have done. He says I'm looking for perfection and that there is no way he can be everything I want. I asked if that means he's not willing to try, he said no. I said I'm not looking for perfection - just honest efforts to love one another the right way and humble admitance when we mess up. He was quiet, but his body language is rolling of eyes, scowling and general impatience. I'm losing hope.

Such as: When you X, What I am hearing is X and I feel X about it.

Maybe that would help him get it?

I'll give this a try. It's what I've been going for, but I know my anger and emotion get in the way sometimes. I'm afraid that he DOES get it, he just doesn't like it and doesn't want to do it, and that's why I feel hopeless.

The truth is: If she really wanted to change the situation, she could take steps to change it. I am not holding her or telling her what to do. She is doing that to herself. So, I understand what you are saying and the feelings associated but it is the fear of doing that is providing the feeling of stuck. kwim?

You are right. I am making choices here, and it is my fear that is keeping me in the "stuck" place. I don't like either of my options, and so I sit in the middle with one foot on either side and feel confused and stuck, but it is my choice to sit there rather than put the other foot on the same side and move forward.

To move pass stuck, you have to get past the fear.

Its interesting, because this journey has been about faith and surrender for me, mostly. I need to choose to have faith that God will use this for good and do the imposible in our M...to let go of what my life was supposed to look like and accept what he has for me. To choose that no matter my H's future choices, if I stay, God is in control and will provide what I need when I need it. Or, I need to have faith that he will take care of me no matter what, that he has plans to prosper and not to harm, and surrender the last little bit of the dream I had for my life (staying home with my kids and having an intact family) and divorce. To not be scared about finances and damage to my kids. Both options require faith and surrender. NEither option stands out as being preferable or easier.

The ILYBNILWY - this is generally what a number of WS's use in there talks at some point with their BS. This is something I never understood and I have pushed my BS enough that I finally got - I don't love you anymore. This is something I can not relate to - you either love someone or you don't, maybe that's my black and white thinking but - it is how I see it. Love comes from taking loving actions so when someone say what your saying, what I read is - I am afraid to show my WH loving actions because ( Fill in the Blank). That is something I can understand, so I have no advice there.

It is a matter of caring about him, wanting good for him, and choosing to love him in actions (like you said). Actions sometimes produce feelings, but for me, at least at the moment, they are not. I still make his lunch, clean his cloths, work out, watch what I eat, tell him what I appreciate about him...the things that speak love to him. But, I don't look at him and gush. I'm not overcome with butterflies when he touches me. I'm not giggling when he says something flirty. I'm not dreaming about him. I'm not happy to be married to him. So those types of "in love" feelings aren't there. Think of it in terms of kids: I love my kids and will love them no matter what they do. If they get arrested someday, I will not be happy about it, but I will still love them. My H had an A. I didn't like it, but I still love him. It did, however, take away my mushy in love feeling for him. Does that make sense? I'm not afraid to show my H loving actions. I choose to love him in actions everyday even if I don't feel like it. It is the in love feeling that I can't choose to have...they just aren't there. And he isn't doing anything to restore them for me. Does that make sense?

When you say 'I want a man who will put me first', I think that is a healthy and normal thing (not Selfish at all). In a relationship, easpecially Marriage, it is VITALLY important for each partner to put the other above everyone else.

Thanks for affirming my needs. I sometimes wonder if I'm making selfish demands because I've been hurt.

With an A, you have in essence been relegated to 2nd place. That is also normal. In order to feel first, your WH is going to have to do the work and provide the actions to return you to the position you deserve.

I so wish he saw it this way.

As I came to understand the weaknesses, I also learned how I could strengthen them to prevent a re-occurence of A or A like activity. So, it takes time and introspection to understand them. I also read some books that helped me through this and IC helped me nail them down.

Were these steps you took on your own or did your wife do something to encourage or...?

This is the part that is difficult on the BS. A WS has to be willing, able, and have the guts to do this work. It is not easy and not for the faint hearted. It forces a WS to face some very ugly things about themselves.

Maybe my H doesn't. I just don't know anymore. And I just don't know what to DO while waiting. I've been waiting a long time. I'm to the end of my rope. He knows that. I've discussed separating. He says it scares him because he's afraid I'll decide I like life without him more than with him and move onto divorce. Faith again. Where do I put it? In recovery alone or together? Tough call to make. I'm afraid of either choice and the damage that either will leave in its wake.

It takes compassion and empathy.

I can do this IF I see effort. If there is no effort, then I have none because he is choosing 40% instead of giving 100%. I'm not free goods. There is a price to keeping me. And I'm worth 100%. I know change is hard. Its hard for me to impliment the changes I need to make in me as I discover communication errors, foo issues, etc. I can understand mistakes along the way, but I NEED effort.

I say offer choices and consequences.

If the say they 'don't know' you could go into the - when you say X I really hear X and it makes me feel X. - if they still do not want to answer - then consequences -

Since I can not understand the reasons why X and you chose not to X I need to do X to protect myself.

Wow - this is gold! THank you. I've been doing the first part but the consequences piece has been missing. I'll be working on this. I very much appreciate your help. Thank you!



Posts: 174 | Registered: May 2009
fyrepixie15
♀ Member
Member # 20815
Default  Posted: 4:24 PM, May 27th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

a couple questions...

any WS here try to R, get sucked in by OP again and leave your BS...come to your senses and gone back to BS and it actually work out then???


Me 39
H 39
Married 14 yrs
DD 20
DS 18
D-Day 8/11/08
in IC, both of us


"You change for two reasons: Either you learn enough that you want to, or you've been hurt enough that you have to."


Posts: 1710 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Florida
TICKED OFF
♀ Member
Member # 8291
Default  Posted: 9:31 AM, May 28th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Does the embarrassment that the WS feels after getting caught in an a ever truly go away, especially if all of your family and friends know about it? Is there a time when the WS can feel less guilty? Is there ever a time when a WS can truly come to peace with themselves, especially if they live on the same block as the op, or even those that still work with the op?


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