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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's II
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 11:17 AM, May 14th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ceva,
but do WS really EVER think of their spouce while getting it on with the OP?? Or are they jut into this OP?
Mine was LTA and when I was with xOM, I never thought about H during A. (It was open and my H knew it. )

If it was ONS, I can kind of understand his statement that he was thinking of you during the sex act with xOW, but if he has carried on his PA for 8 month long, sounds to me like, it is BS to me. As a FWS, it is hard to believe what he said, but again I am not your H, so he only has his truth and that each FWS is different.

[This message edited by beach at 11:20 AM, May 14th (Thursday)]


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
Ceva
♀ Member
Member # 23962
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, May 14th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for your post, Beach..

I hope a WH posts as well...

it seems from SI men and women are a bit different but that is probably just me being hopeful!!

WHs!! CAn you addressthis please? I am looking for a remorseful WH, one who does love his wife, to respond.....thank you!


ME: BS 43
Him: WH 44...9 month PA w/ co-worker
WH: wants R
me: not sure...back to square 1: total devastation
Dday(Trickle Truth) April 12-May 8 2009
married 20 years
2 yr old son-light of my life

Posts: 147 | Registered: May 2009 | From: western USA
lieshurt
♀ Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 2:16 PM, May 14th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for the responses

Posts: 13352 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, May 14th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

icbtih8 -

if they desire to be with people other than their spouses, why the secrecy? why not just end the M and go about with other people?

Two words - conflict avoidance. Rather than face the challenge of providing negative feedback to my BW and being challenged on it, I ducked out with my tail between my legs.

Bottom line - I Was too scared to deal with the confrontation, which included me discovering how bad my own weaknesses were in the process.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
NeedingGodsHelp
♀ Member
Member # 23580
Default  Posted: 9:24 PM, May 14th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As long as things were floating along with no real change, there was nothing to push your WS to face the consequences of his decisions. Now you have, and he has been smacked in the face with it full force. He can no longer set it aside and delay dealing with the outcomes he has created.

Does this mean it is possible that the fog could lift?



BS: me 33
WH: him 33
Married almost 9 yrs, together (off-and-on) 18.5 years
4 kids: 1 mine & 3 ours
DD#1: 2/12/2009 (EA#1)
DD#2: 2/26/2009 (EA/PA w/ tramp#2 - since July 2008)
Status: D 5/2010, Standing, WH living with OW, D filed 4/28/09)

Posts: 440 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: Climbing out of hell...
the fsc
♂ Member
Member # 23028
Default  Posted: 11:57 PM, May 14th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ceva,

Just gonna throw this out there. Your WH's response sounds quite protective. By protective, I mean that he is lessening the blow by telling you that stuff, so as to not make it sound as bad as it is. I may be whacked...but I don't really think about anyone else when I'm "working"...hell, I'm "WORKING!!!"

If anything when I was with OW, I was focused on my performance, and worried about how I was perceived by her. Part of my selfish, egotistical, a-hole personality at that time. Does this mean that he doesn't love you, care about you, want to have sex with you? No. I just recognize it as a protective behavior.

I'll give you my real world example in which you will see the similarities...

I told BW that it was "uncomfortable with OW". I tried to make it sound like the sex was terrible with her...so as to lessen the blow to my BW. Of course BW saw right through this. "If it was so TERRIBLE, then why did you go back 2 more times for it?!?!?!". I looked like an ass.

Just be cautious with it...if you are both truly committed to R, then he needs to not be afraid to be completely honest with you. It may take a bit...


WH - (45) Me
BS - (44) Her (Redrock)

D Day 3/23/2008
Easter


Posts: 165 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Michigan
Charli
♀ Member
Member # 15601
Default  Posted: 4:11 AM, May 15th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello dear WS's,

Thank you in advance as always for being here to answer questions

Situation preamble: XFWSO and myself have ended our relationship. I didn't want to at first, but am finding more and more peace with it. I am pretty much sure it has nothing to do with any OW, and everything with XFWSO's inability to deal with what he did and forgive himself, and my not putting in everything I should have had I really wanted R... I did want it, but I let my anger and hurt and resentment get in the way, and didn't do the necessary work on myself either.

We parted on good terms, and still talk rather a lot, which seems to be good for both of us in finding closure. Actually, we're having the best conversations ever now the stakes aren't so high - there is no more relationship to save, the panic and the anger are gone, and we can talk and listen without feeling threatened. I'm sure this will wind down after a while, certainly once/if both of us meet someone else we want to be with, but for now it seems good.

The question: So, this is something I didn't know how to deal with when we were still trying to R, and I still don't know now.

From a WS perspective, what is a good way for a BS to respond to expressions of remorse?

XFWSO had a bad dream a few nights ago. He didn't tell me what it was exactly, but it led him to start apologizing profusely again for everything he'd done to me.

No-one has ever had to apologize to me for very seriously wronging me before, usually any "sorry" can be met with a "Hey, don't worry about it, it'll be fine, you didn't mean to do it..." etc. etc.

You can't really say that about an A though... So I don't know how to respond. I want to let him know I appreciate it, so I usually just answer with a "I know, but thank you for saying it again", but that doesn't really feel right, either. What kind of a response, for a WS, is both acknowledgement and encouragement when you express your remorse?

I believe he is truly remorseful and he has tried very hard to help me heal and make this work. I care about him a lot, and if I can help him at all on this road too forgiving himself, I would like to.

[This message edited by Charli at 4:12 AM, May 15th (Friday)]


me: 31, F, XBSO, getting on with my life!

Posts: 1573 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: The Netherlands
down4now
♀ Member
Member # 23635
Default  Posted: 5:26 AM, May 15th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

maybe this has been asked before but why would a WS have an affair (assuming there are no kids involved)? i don't get it. why not end the M and then go out with the OP?
if they desire to be with people other than their spouses, why the secrecy? why not just end the M and go about with other people?


I've asked my FWH this but he can't give me a fair answer other than he wasn't thinking straight.

He always maintained that if he ever fell in love with anyone else he respected and cared about me so much that he would tell me and end the marriage before it became 'serious'.

Guess he stopped caring about and respecting me..now tells me he really wanted to tell me before it went PA but couldn't - he was afraid of my reaction?
I'm not really sure how he thought I'd react when I found out about his A? (I suppose I wasn't meant to find out).

He's admitted that he's a cake-eater - he wanted his comfortable life with me but the excitement and danger of an A - unfortunately for him all he really got out of it was guilt, depression, suicidal thoughts and a needy, demanding and clingy OW.

[This message edited by down4now at 5:34 AM, May 15th (Friday)]


BS (me) 44
WS (him)45
Married 21yrs, Together 25 yrs
Children boy 14, girl 19
D-Day(s)26th Feb, 1st March, 12th March 2009
5 Month EA/PA
OW: 52,former friend.
NC 4th March 09. Broken by OW 13th Aug, 20th Nov
On the road to R

Posts: 837 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: UK
down4now
♀ Member
Member # 23635
Default  Posted: 5:43 AM, May 15th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ceva

but do WS really EVER think of their spouce while getting it on with the OP?? Or are they just into this OP?


FWH admitted that he had to think of me to 'get it on' with OW, otherwise he struggled to 'perform'. I asked him "well, if that's the case, why didn't you end it with her there and then?"

He couldn't really answer that one, other than he had gone this far, committed himself and somehow had to make it worth it - a male ego thing I suppose. He even told her that sex was better with me, which must have really rankled OW. She would often burst into tears and tell him it would 'get better', she'd just had a difficult time during her many past relationships. He says he thought of me constantly so wasn't really 'with her' in a 'spiritual' sense. She felt that and became more and more demanding, begging him to leave me, trying to out their relationship so I would throw him out. I suppose his thinking of me is what finally made him come clean and end it so quickly.


BS (me) 44
WS (him)45
Married 21yrs, Together 25 yrs
Children boy 14, girl 19
D-Day(s)26th Feb, 1st March, 12th March 2009
5 Month EA/PA
OW: 52,former friend.
NC 4th March 09. Broken by OW 13th Aug, 20th Nov
On the road to R

Posts: 837 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: UK
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 6:44 AM, May 15th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NeedingGodsHelp -

Does this mean it is possible that the fog could lift?

Yes, it's possible. From my own experience, the fog will lift when a WS has both been faced with the severity of the consequences of their actions AND has enough time of NC from the OP to allow them to not be influenced by the OP's words.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 6:47 AM, May 15th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ceva -

I hope a WH posts as well...

Mine was an EA, but it did involve cyber activites. When those happened, my BW was did not enter the picture.

You have to remember that if a WS was thinking of their BW during A activity, it would also open the door to them feeling the guilt and shame of their conscience. Instead, the two worlds are treated as if they were totally different places - one never crossing over into the other.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 6:52 AM, May 15th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Charli -

what is a good way for a BS to respond to expressions of remorse?

I agree that the apologies can't simply be dismissed. So how about graciously accepting them with thanks?

When a remorseful FWS is apologizing to their BS, they are desperately trying to show thsat they understand the pain they have inflicted and are truly sorry for it. Of course, we are also restricted by the fact we lied so much it's hard to believe us on any level. We get frustrated when we say what we feel, and it is summarily dismissed as "just more words".

In your example, I think just saying "Thank you. I am glad that you understand the things you put me through, and I am happy that you are feeling the things you need to feel to help your healing process." would be fine.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 6:58 AM, May 15th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

down4now -

Guess he stopped caring about and respecting me

With all due respect, this is not necessarily true. In the light of 20/20 hindsight, I know I love my wife and always have very deeply. If I did not, we would never have survived this ordeal I created.

I'm not really sure how he thought I'd react when I found out about his A?

Unless I'm misreading this, it's not about how you would react to the A. It's how you would react to negative feedback from him about you. How you would react if he challenged you on things that made him unhappy with you and your M.

Although messed up, the thought process is something akin to "How do I tell the perfect person that they aren't perfect? How do I tell them that although all the facts say they are right, what I feel is wrong. Facts trump feelings, so it will just turn into her attacking me and me having no ground to stand on.?" It's scary thinking that you are in a position where if you tell your spouse how much something they do or say bothers you, they will turn and attack you until they win the battle.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
down4now
♀ Member
Member # 23635
Default  Posted: 10:02 AM, May 15th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Listening Closely

if a WS was thinking of their BW during A activity, it would also open the door to them feeling the guilt and shame of their conscience.

My H was feeling exactly this every time he was with OW. He was depressed before the A started and became almost suicidal during it so it was a relief when it all finally came out.

Unless I'm misreading this, it's not about how you would react to the A. It's how you would react to negative feedback from him about you. How you would react if he challenged you on things that made him unhappy with you and your M.

I feel I have to defend myself here as this isn't strictly true - I suppose I'm contradicting myself on the care and respect – it’s just difficult to believe that your spouse could have continued to feel anything for you. Yes he was worried about how I would react re: his actions but he was far moreworried about my mental health and was convinced I would have a breakdown at the very least. These worries lead to his inaction on many occasions. He wanted to end the A but couldn't cope with the expected outcome – i.e a broken wife. Neither does he blame me or our M for his unhappiness. My H is a classic passive-aggressive, both MC and IC have unearthed this along with lots and lots of independent reading on our part. He admits that he tried to blame me for his depression and unhappiness and that OW happily fostered these feelings by running me down as much as she could, but in reality it was his own feelings of low self-esteem and low self worth that were the root cause. He says quite freely that he 'had everything, a caring wife, a lovely family, the perfect job (he's a self-employed artist) and the respect of his peers but it wasn't enough. He doesn't think anything or anyone would have been enough for him – not even if I’d been a nymphomaniac millionairess with a mansion by the sea (his words not mine!). OW wasn't enough, she just pulled him out of his deep depression very briefly with her excessive flattery and sexual promises but early one in their PA she was already beginning to annoy him – there was no ‘fantasy relationship’ in that sense. He felt adrift and unable to control his life – hence the thoughts of suicide. I always thought my H was a simple man but our MC has joked that he’s the most complicated man she’s met. She also said to me “ You’ve taken an awful lot on haven’t you?” My H agreed!

He knows I'm not perfect and so do I. There were certainly none of those feelings on his part. He was a sad and desperate man who made a very bad choice with disasterous results.
He has said he now feels relieved knowing that he is passive-aggressive as it explains so much about how he's been feeling and behaving over the past few years and knowing that he's determined to change his life for the better.

[This message edited by down4now at 10:03 AM, May 15th (Friday)]


BS (me) 44
WS (him)45
Married 21yrs, Together 25 yrs
Children boy 14, girl 19
D-Day(s)26th Feb, 1st March, 12th March 2009
5 Month EA/PA
OW: 52,former friend.
NC 4th March 09. Broken by OW 13th Aug, 20th Nov
On the road to R

Posts: 837 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: UK
lja02
♀ New Member
Member # 23916
Default  Posted: 10:34 AM, May 15th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a question. My WH says that he has nothing but friend feelings for me and isn't sure he'll ever love me again. He sleeps in the recliner, if he sleeps at all, says everything I do annoys him and he doesn't know why. He's not eating much at all and says he's just so confused right now. Did any of you go thru this during the first couple of weeks of NC? Sunday will be 3 weeks since NC.


BS(me) (29)
WH (29)
Been together 7 1/2 years, married 6 1/2
2 wonderful kids
In R for one month

Posts: 24 | Registered: May 2009 | From: texas
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, May 15th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

down4now -

Please don't mistake my feedback as anything you would need to defend yourself on. You haven't done anything wrong by any means.

it’s just difficult to believe that your spouse could have continued to feel anything for you.

I know this is one of those parts that makes no sense at all. In my case, what I had deceived myself into thinking was luuuvvv for xMOW was in fact latching on to external validation I needed because I did not have the skills to validate myself. It had nothing to do with the fact that I cherished my BW and all she gave me. There was just no way in a "real world" relationship that she would give my ego a stroke 24 hours a day seven days a week. As I checked more and more out of the M, it became more and more difficult for her to give me direct positive feedback. I basically created my own demise, but I didn't see it that way at the time.

The love has always been there for her. But the outward showing of the love I have for her is only possible when I am giving 100% of myself to her.

lja02 -

Did any of you go thru this during the first couple of weeks of NC?

Unfortunately, a WS fog won't necessarily lift in the moment on D-Day. Mine, in gradually lesser amounts, lingered for five months past D-Day. In the early going, I had no idea what I felt. I had no idea which path was right, which feelings were real, which choices were the right ones. I had to take a step in a committed direction, but did so being very unsure at the time.

As longer NC continued and I gained a clearer view of reality, I rediscovered the love that was always within me for my BW. I then learned the skills I needed to both express it better as well as to shore up my own weaknesses.

It makes a lot of sense for a WS to be confused just weeks after D-Day. I can take a long time to clear the fog and be able to state exactly what true feelings exist.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 1:07 PM, May 15th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

down4now -

it’s just difficult to believe that your spouse could have continued to feel anything for you

My H came up with an analogy that I like. The BS finds it difficult to believe that the WS still loved the BS during the A. The WS finds it difficult to believe the BS still loves the WS after the A. (I absolutely did not believe it was possible for him to still love me.)

If both sides cannot feel that "truth", maybe the most effective thing to do is to accept it, for now, and work on other things.

[This message edited by UnexpectedSong at 1:08 PM, May 15th (Friday)]


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6043 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
EmptyCup
♀ Member
Member # 22909
Default  Posted: 1:20 PM, May 15th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a question. My WH says that he has nothing but friend feelings for me and isn't sure he'll ever love me again. He sleeps in the recliner, if he sleeps at all, says everything I do annoys him and he doesn't know why. He's not eating much at all and says he's just so confused right now. Did any of you go thru this during the first couple of weeks of NC? Sunday will be 3 weeks since NC.

He sounds like he's still very foggy. I definitely went through all of that and it was very hard on my BS. I had to decide to start acting in a loving manner towards my H and the loving feelings started to come back.

ETA: Both my H and I joined SI at that time and both posted about how to get the loving feelings back. I wanted to be in love with my husband again. Everyone here told me that love is a verb and that feelings follow action and I've found it to be true. I think your husband needs some time to get over the OP while at the same time working on the relationship with you. It took me several months to really get over OM.

[This message edited by EmptyCup at 1:24 PM, May 15th (Friday)]


FWW, reconciled with my best friend <3

Nothing much but love to give you, even less have I to hide - Tim O'Brien


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Feb 2009
GeminiGirl
♀ Member
Member # 23292
Default  Posted: 7:45 PM, May 15th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have lost track of who asked about the WS who is sleeping in the recliner, not eating much, etc. However, I would add that the WS sounds depressed and probably needs help, independent of the A.

I am a BS. I am not sure "why" my WS had the A but it appears depression had something to do with it.


Me: BW (52); WH: 58
M: 11 years
D-day: 2/24/09
Kids: 2 his, 2 mine
Status: trying R; in MC, both IC

Posts: 137 | Registered: Mar 2009
hopingwaiting
♀ Member
Member # 23575
Default  Posted: 9:43 PM, May 17th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is a total 180 necessary for every WS? What I mean is that I have done a great job not seeing him in person and only communicating on email about bills, baby needs, non emotional stuff. The most I have said is "take care" after he says it to me.

We have gone to one baby class and have another next Saturday. We actually had fun but he cried before he went home; I said nothing and did not cry. So I am thinking that seeing him once in awhile might be a good thing to remind him how "great" I am and our old life...??? By the way, I am surprisingly strong b/c I will go on with or with out him.


BW (Me)-34,
our 1st baby born 7/6/09
WH-34
EA turned PA 8/08-present
D-Day#1 (1/1/09) false R,
D-Day #2 (3/17/09)said he couldn't stop contacting her; told him to move out
married 3.5 years; together 5
status-WH filed for D 6/14/10

Posts: 615 | Registered: Apr 2009
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