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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's II
1DLW
♀ Member
Member # 21971
Default  Posted: 5:00 PM, February 8th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

pmlsea
I shut down sometimes when my BH gets upset and angry.
I know it bothers him but sometimes I just can't speak.
I know he's sick of hearing "I'm sorry" which is really all I can say when he brings some things up.
I can't argue because he is right I did do horrible things. There are no words that can make up for what I have done.
I answer all of his questions, but when he vents at me, I just think, what could I possibly say that would help?
I don't do it to make him angry I guess I just don't know what to do.Maybe your H is in the same boat.
So maybe you could help give me some insight too.
What would be good for your H to do instead of shut down?


WS 42

Posts: 483 | Registered: Dec 2008
pmlsea
♀ Member
Member # 17099
Default  Posted: 5:24 PM, February 8th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thanks for the responses. i don't expect rainbows and sunshine, not at all. just not this.

He tells me I should feel safe expressing my feelings. I usually don't because there is this sort of "backlash"

He hasn't spoken to me all day unless I asked him a question. When I finally said "you don't have to hise from me"
he just looked at me and walked out of the room. didn't say anything.

how am I supposed to feel safe venting?

it makes me feel like it's his response to me telling him that I can't meet his needs right now....so he won't meet mine. I don't know.


BS-me 35
WS-him 38-Sorrowfulfriend
M 12/29/94
3 kids (15,10,9)
A 2002
D-day 11/18/07
in limbo

~People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed, and redeemed; never throw out anyone.~


Posts: 2179 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Central Florida
diditagn
♀ Member
Member # 3433
Default  Posted: 9:24 PM, February 8th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am sure this has been asked.....how many ws said they had never been happy in their marriages.


Happy people don't have the best things, they make the best with what they have.

Posts: 1556 | Registered: Feb 2004 | From: WI
Fallen
♀ Member
Member # 4313
Default  Posted: 10:44 PM, February 8th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

pmslea, you feel safe venting the same way he feels safe confessing or answering your questions. You can acknowledge that it has to be hard for him to hear what you have to say but you need to share it. Also let him know you wouldn't be sharing if you didn't want to trust again, so he needs to allow you that space and to not totally check out for days afterward. Sharing your feelings with him is an indication that you want to heal and you want to rebuild. Maybe he needs some reassurance.... and even though you may have meant "you don't have to hide" to be reassuring, to me that would have been considered criticism. Instead, you might tell him that it means a lot that you can now be open with him.


You can't heal what you won't feel.

"There would be no grand absolution, only forgiveness meted out in these precious sips. It would well up from his heart in spoonfuls, and he would feed it to me. And it would be enough."


Posts: 23475 | Registered: May 2004
UK42
♀ Member
Member # 21568
Default  Posted: 2:10 AM, February 9th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you Fallen for your time reading & replying to my question, its very much appreciated.


Alone but not scared any more!

Posts: 130 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: In Limbo Land hoping to move soon
pmlsea
♀ Member
Member # 17099
Default  Posted: 8:32 AM, February 9th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you Fallen. it's hard to see things when I am looking through the emotions. i tend to take everything personally or assume I've done something wrong. Then I get defensive and want to stike out.

again, thank you for your insight.


BS-me 35
WS-him 38-Sorrowfulfriend
M 12/29/94
3 kids (15,10,9)
A 2002
D-day 11/18/07
in limbo

~People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed, and redeemed; never throw out anyone.~


Posts: 2179 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Central Florida
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 9:56 AM, February 9th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

pmlsea,

i tend to take everything personally or assume I've done something wrong. Then I get defensive and want to stike out.
I am not a deep discussion type face to face. Sometimes I don't know what to say. And that the writing form is comfortable to express my feeling better. Have you tried writing him your thought out? And then ask him the same....? Or Are you guys in MC, can those discussion be handled there?

(((Hugs)))


diditagn,

.....how many ws said they had never been happy in their marriages.
No, not me. I never said anything about my M or my H.

[This message edited by beach at 10:23 AM, February 9th (Monday)]


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
sadandtrying
♀ Member
Member # 19246
Default  Posted: 9:18 AM, February 10th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One minute I want him to kiss me, but then when he does all I can picture is her kissing him and them professing their love for one another

I'm sorry to say that there are still days for me when I'm in this same place, and we are 16 months out.
It's better than it was, but it still happens for me sometimes that I'm so angry that he was able to look someone else in the eyes and say ILY....

All the while screaming, crying, dying inside, but keeping it together so no one sees what a MESS i really am

I can relate.....
I feel like a Dr. Jekyl/Mr. Hyde...(spelling?!)

Posts: 1064 | Registered: Apr 2008
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, February 10th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

pmlsea -

I think I can relate a bit to where your WH is coming from. For me, I already hate conflict. But that fear grows exponentially when faced with conflict where I know there is no way I can win. So rather than face the situation and accept it, I run away in hopes that I can avoid "losing again".

I had a few conversations in IC about this. He pushed my to set my own performance bar rather than gauge my worth based on the standards set by others, including my BW. That's great in theory, but a whole lot harder to do when one of the things you want most in the world is to please your BS.

As a FWS, we are fully at fault with nowhere to place the blame but squarely on ourselves. There is no defense for our actions. So when we have to face the result of the pain we have created, it's a pretty straightforward equation:

Vent + Indefensible action = Loser.

The response is based on the personality type. Aggressive people will get angry and yell back, escalating the fight. Passive people sit in silence and accept the vent, letting it eat away at them from the inside. Passive aggressive people accept the vent, but then look for an outlet elsewhere (lashing out through an alternate path like breaking something they care about or deliberately not doing something they want done).

Until I have solid skills in place to cope with being confronted, the ones where I know I'm going to lose are going to hurt like hell. My only suggestion is to keep pushing him and not let him shut down. Because when he does, it's likely the outlet for his stress and pain will be through a harmful choice.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Elle_47
♀ Member
Member # 10455
Default  Posted: 2:09 PM, February 10th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am sure this has been asked.....how many ws said they had never been happy in their marriages.

Probably most of us. In the fog, we'll say a lot of things.


Turns out sometimes you have to do the wrong thing. Sometimes you have to make a big mistake to figure out how to make things right. Mistakes are painful, but they're the only way to find out who you really are.

Posts: 721 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Canada
toonice
♂ Member
Member # 19862
Default  Posted: 3:52 PM, February 10th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For WS's who villified their BS:

Understanding that there are some BS's who are not perfect people. . .
Are there things you thought about your BS, during your A, which seemed to justify your actions, that you later realized, were just plain wrong?

If so - were you ever able to apologize to your BS for saying/thinking these wrong things about them?


Stronger than reason, stronger than lies, the only truth I know, is the look in your eyes.
BH(42) FWW(41; 8+ OM/OW, 5 year LTA)
M: 16yrs, 2 kids DS16, DD13. d-day 6/17/2008 (after 9 months of MC+gaslighting).

Posts: 4898 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: CA
nothereorthere
♀ Member
Member # 20530
Default  Posted: 4:14 PM, February 10th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lucky me, my FWS is the passive aggressive personality type. It seems to me I'm the one he's lashing out at. I feel like the affair he had was also him lashing out at me. He always has been the type to go into himself & then end up getting mad and hitting a wall or something else. According to him, the one time they had sex was because he got mad because she constantly pushed for it. He's always gotten himself into the worst situations by not talking then getting angry after holding it back. And someone gets hurt in the crossfire. Like me with the affair. So pushing him to open up usually gets a bad reaction. Feels like a no win situation. Feel like the healing is totally left up to me & I have a problem with that since he's the one that brought all this hurt on. We went to marriage counselling, but he's never been to counselling by himself. I think he should, he thinks he dosen't need it.

Posts: 81 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 10:19 AM, February 11th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

toonice -

Understanding that there are some BS's who are not perfect people. . .
Are there things you thought about your BS, during your A, which seemed to justify your actions, that you later realized, were just plain wrong?

If so - were you ever able to apologize to your BS for saying/thinking these wrong things about them?

What I experienced was that there were things we both did for each other that were good, and things that we did to each other that were bad. As the EA evolved, the "good" things I did and the "bad" things she did were overemphasized in my foggy state, while the "bad" I did and the "good" she did was diminished.

I apologized to her for many specific things. I'm not sure if I specifically apologized for overstating the bad and understating the good with her (though if I haven't, consider this my deepest apology for that blunder Wells!).

What has become important to me over time is not so much how I portrayed things, but how I see them in a clear headed state of mind. I'm lucky in that xMOW was an online contact, not a co-worker or friend. My BW does not have to worry about seeing or interacting with her in any way. So what I may have said back when I lost my mind doesn't have to have any lingering issues.

The reality is it doesn't matter what xMOW thinks of my BW. What matters is what we think about each other, that we acknowledge when each other does something that means a lot to us (like when she told me I had messed up in what I took out for dinner, but immediately pointed out it was not a criticism but actually made her laugh). And then to share with our BS or WS the things we need them to consider changing to make the relationship happier for both sides.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 10:30 AM, February 11th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nothereorthere -

We went to marriage counselling, but he's never been to counselling by himself. I think he should, he thinks he dosen't need it.

After D-Day, my BW told me I had two choices. Call a counselor or call an attorney. I arranged to meet with our pastor (who was not very skilled in handling this type of situation). she in turn referred us to an MC who was a really bad fit for us. But that MC referred me to an IC who ended up being perfect for me. When you are passive aggressive, you need an IC who will slowly and methodically but deliberately guide you to understanding yourself. My early sessions angered my BW, because she saw his actions as being to easy on me and letting me off the hook. In fact, he saw that I needed to be coaxed out of my shell, and an all out assault would have shut me down further. He found ways to plant some seeds early, and then helped those ideas grow into bigger philosophies I could handle.

After a few months of IC, I was more prepared to handle the MC we needed, which was much more in my face. Don't get me wrong, I got pissed every time our MC said I "got in over my head" or reflected my behavior as being totally my own fault. But IC gave me enough footing that I didn't shut down in MC. That was a huge step.

It doesn't matter whether someone is passive aggressive or not - you still need to define your boundaries. Without IC, it's highly unlikely you will see any change in your WS's behavior. For me, IC would be a minimum requirement to stay in the relationship. It's that important.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
me+6
♀ Member
Member # 15035
Default  Posted: 1:32 PM, February 11th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Any WS's that come from a family where infidelity is accepted?

WH's family seems to be overrun with infidelity and its is accepted even laughed about.

I am wondering how much this will play into WH ever being able to stay faithful.


me-36 WH-37
Married 16 years together 18
6 children (5,7,8,12,14,16)
DDay - March 4th 2007
DDay #2 September 13, 2008 EA
Separated Oct 24, 2008
7/1/09 He is coming home!
Beginning to R

Posts: 694 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: East Coast
lostall
♀ Member
Member # 6490
Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, February 11th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is to Vale:

>>>Do WS miss or think about their X spouses? <<<

After nearly two years of being divorced, separated four years, I still think about my XH. I miss the happiness, the many good years, and grieve for our marriage. The fact that I had an A and left my H, does not change or even diminish the grief. Leaving a long-term marriage is like an amputation; it maims a person in a way and it leaves scars for life, no matter whether you are the one left, or the one doing the leaving.


FWS
Divorced

Posts: 960 | Registered: Feb 2005 | From: Europe
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, February 11th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

me+6 -

Any WS's that come from a family where infidelity is accepted?

I can't see that being healthy under any circumstances. I came from a family where conflict was hidden and swept under the rug. So something like infidelity would be revealed to the least number of people, hidden and buried in hopes of just getting past it.

Unhealthy? Yes. But I think a climate where it was actually accepted in any way would prevent any type of real healing to take place as long as the WS was getting feedback from their family that what they did was not necessarily wrong.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
cani4give
♂ Member
Member # 19601
Default  Posted: 7:55 PM, February 11th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I read the Betrayed Spouse for the Former Wayward Spouse FAQ, in which KiWi answered that she did think about the OP when she was intimate with her BH.

During the A, always. I cried (privately) at the end of lovemaking because I missed the OM so much. It felt like being unfaithful to the OM. Now, I only think of my H.

My question is, are there any WS's who did NOT think about the AP when they were intimate with their BS during the A? Is it possible to have NEVER thought of the AP during sex with the BS?


BH: Me
FWW: Her
2 amazing children

Posts: 615 | Registered: May 2008
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 8:07 PM, February 11th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

me+6,

Any WS's that come from a family where infidelity is accepted?
I cannot say that it was accepted, but it was common in my culture. I am from Japan and there are many Love Hotels where you can rent for a few hours for sex purpose over there and it kinds of easier for discreet A to happen.

My sister recently told me that our father was having PA LT, which I didn't know about it, but she told me that our mother knew, but she never confronted dad about it.


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 8:10 PM, February 11th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

cani4give,

are there any WS's who did NOT think about the AP when they were intimate with their BS during the A? Is it possible to have NEVER thought of the AP during sex with the BS?

That would have been me.

I didn't think about xOM when I was having sex with H. I was compartmentalizing regardless whether I was with xOM or with H.


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
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