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User Topic: BS Questions for WS's II
♀ Member
Member # 21497
Default  Posted: 8:42 PM, January 30th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is probably a stupid question but how do you get a WS to look at themselves. I've tried asking him this, I know he doesn't since he's still with OW.

People are laughing and making fun of them behind their backs and he thinks everything's "peachy". He even wants her to meet his
family (MIL told me) and hasn't even asked me for a seperation or D.

I know this is total MLC since he now hates his business and wants to get out of it, I still see depression even though he says "he's happy" but is there anything that would trigger you to start thinking and seeing what others are seeing?

R takes not one but two!
BS-me WS-him
Too many to talk about.

Posts: 992 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: SE
♀ Member
Member # 22525
Default  Posted: 9:43 PM, January 30th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Introspection will only happen when he's ready. It took me YEARS to fully accept that I need to face my character flaws and address them. Running away from them and finding someone else who finds me attractive because they don't know my full story wasn't the answer anymore and was only making it worse.

Just like any other addiction, it has to be their choice to embrace the ugliness.

The scripture that I have in my signature line hit me like a ton of bricks. That was the beginning of "the end" for me. I gave up my boyfriends for Jesus. Best thing I ever did.


Me - 39yrs FWS (2 OM)
Him - 43yrs Mad Hatter (one revenge A w/MW)
Married 15yrs
2 Kids - 8 & 5
Continuous D days since '05
NC since 12/29/08
Reconciling through IC/MC

"A good marriage takes work but a bad one takes more."

Posts: 255 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: So Cal
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Member # 20530
Default  Posted: 12:19 PM, January 31st (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just want to say thanks to all that answered my question. Your answers helped me. I was having a bad night that brought up past feelings about the affair. You see, my WH was working that night and had to stay overnight at a hotel due to bad weather. Big trigger for me. Was a bad night for me. Thanks for all the support given here.

Posts: 81 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
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Member # 22446
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, January 31st (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am really struggling today. It has been almost a month since dday. I have asked a few questions in here before. Forgive me if they seem the same but I want to know how to help him too. He has been bringing me flowers and telling me he loves me, checking in, ect. I guess he is transparent. I am having a hard time balancing my healing and not pouring lemon juice in his wounds. Make any sense? I think I know all I want to know about his 7 mos EA turned ONS... on dday I know I was in shock bc I told him I 4gave him and we could start a new M. I have found weeks out now, that I am SO ANGRY with him. I do forgive him but am I being 2 faced by being mad? DO I need to just let him work this out on his own? He has not told anyone what really happened. Lies to family and friends. One minute I want him to kiss me, but then when he does all I can picture is her kissing him and them professing their love for one another. How do I know if he is truly in R mode or just confused. He told me last night I was acting crazy and bringing up my pain all the time would not allow us to move on. I know I am rambling but I am letting him make me doubt my sanity. Can he still be in the fog? I am having a horrible day. Anyone have any words of wisdom? Am I crazy? help help help.

Posts: 86 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: USA
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Member # 21212
Default  Posted: 4:29 PM, January 31st (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nope, you're not crazy. I remember vividly our first conversation after Dday, I left for a few days, after Dday. Anyways, when I came back, I wanted to hug him cause he looked sooo miserable and I wanted to hit him cause I was sooo miserable. I really, really felt like I was losing my freaking marbles, and I said to him in a very shaky voice 'Look what you've done to me I feel crazy, please don't commit me' I really was being that weird, one minute I was laughing, and talking about my cousins kids (I had been at her house) and the next minute crying and asking him how he could do such a thing. I know how you feel, and you are not crazy. ((((hugs))))

Dday october 9 2008 (ONS)
3 kids (12,9,6)
Dday Oct 10/08, Officially started R July/09, Started drinking again July/10, Separation Nov/11, Last shot June/12, Officially, mutually done jan/13.

Posts: 1865 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: BC, Canada
Hiding in L.A.
♀ New Member
Member # 22391
Wink  Posted: 10:25 AM, February 1st (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

broken but strong:

you wrote soooo many things that i totally relate to at this time four years into our/my so called "R". Things are good right now, but like you i struggle day in and day out with my WS infidelities. triggers are the worst. i think of clothes he wore when he was with her, i blame him for destroying the pride i had in having what i thought was a perfect marriage--that will never ever be. i hate that i feel like i have to hide my true self from people for fear that they will judge me for sticking around. it drove me crazy to "know" something was up back then to have him deny it over and over again and accuse me of being crazy for thinking he could ever cheat on me. he accused me of being possessed! i just yelled at him the other day about him being the soul "source of my anguish." there is so much to be said for there being a think line between love and hate. i want to be held and feel the love from such an intimate gesture, but when it happens, i literally tense up. it feels ungenuine to me and I don't know if its me or if it is him. i still cry in private. its still painful for me after all of these years. recently i read a book called "the emotionally abused woman" (i've been promoting it all over the SI site ) and since then, i have had an incredible boost of confidence and courage to face the future ahead with or without WS. i love him dearly and constantly try to make sense of why he is still around -- having an affair imo is one's way of saying "next." days are still hard, and i imagine i will still cry when things trigger my memory of times when he was with OW and not me, or when he was with OW and not me. you wrote:

Then I keep retracing your whereabouts during all of the phone records I found.

that is a constant for me...always replaying in my mind when I knew something was just not right.

you wrote

with her telling her you loved her. That you DID NOT LOVE ME.

i struggle with this everyday still. to think that there is some OW out there beleiving in the back of her mind that she had him over me, or thinks she is better than me because he would do this, is totally debilitating.

you wrote

All the while screaming, crying, dying inside, but keeping it together so no one sees what a MESS i really am.

You have to find the thread on here about "wearing a mask" i think its in reconcilliation. it deals with this topic and was quite helpful to me in realizing that I am not alone in my silent pain. i still wear one, but i have hope that i will one day be able to remove it.

broken but strong... thank you for posting. our personal barriers to recovery are similar and i hope by sharing experiences we'l be able to see the light.
hugs -- you are not alone-- nor are you crazy! i too truly know where you are coming from.

Posts: 13 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Los Angeles
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Member # 20530
Default  Posted: 2:01 PM, February 1st (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hiding in L.A.,

I can relate. It's been 3 years & 4 months for us & I still get those triggers too & deal with alot of the same issues you are dealing with.


You are definately NOT crazy! We all feel that way after being betrayed in such a way. I too felt like I wanted to let it go. but couldn't seem to. No matter how much you want to just move on, it seems like there are stages you have to go through emotionally no matter how much you try to skip over them. Your H needs to give you time to heal. A month certainly is not long enough. He has to be able to support you the rest of your lifes together anytime it resurfaces for you. It gets better, but he did it & it will always be there for BOTH of you. Speaking from experience with my H, it will take awhile for him to be able to give you what you need at those times. He probably is feeling guilty now, & just wishes he could forget it & move on. I leaned on a friend alot in the beginning. If noone else, you got us here. Hang in there, it get's easier to handle.

Posts: 81 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
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Member # 21886
Default  Posted: 3:53 PM, February 1st (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

no1spaz, I gather from your post that you are a FWS. So am I, And like you, it took me years to face the character flaw I had that led to my A. In fact I fully faced it just the other day. I now believe I have found the root cause of why I did what I did. Most BS's probably won't believe this but sometimes an A happens due to nothing they did or didn't do. That is the situation with me. My H had nothing to do with my A except perhaps try to support me. My flaw was allowing other people to dictate how I thought of myself. I had a VERY negative self image starting from when I had no defenses to combat it. All this introspection started when my H made a comment after one of our still rather frequent arguments. (I'm only about three months out from confession and total disclosure). It was while thinking on this comment of his that it just hit me: I had no defenses when this image of myself was being formed, no one came to defend me but on the flipside, I didn't *look* for anyone to help me defend myself; I just accepted that those people were right about me. I didn't look for a dissenting opinion. The other realization I had was that my H was treating me the exact opposite way that those others did and it scared me so I went looking for the familiar even though I didn't like it. I was being treated like a person, not a thing without feelings and it confused the sh*t out of me and I didn't know how to deal with it and so, the A. Before this little epiphany, I thought it was about getting an ego boost, having someone agree with my H's view of me, an "objective view" rather than biased like I'd accused my H of being. "Just because I'm biased doesn't mean I'm not telling the truth". I believe my H said that to me years ago but it never really sank in I guess.
In another thread, in Waywardside I believe, a member wanted to know if BS's understood why the A happened and I told much the same story I did here. My comment was that if the *WS* doesn't understand then the BS can't really understand and introspection can certainly help as it did in my case. I talked about my discovery with my H that same day and I do believe that he now understands a little better why I'd done what I did. I helped him fit a few more pieces into the puzzle he had and into my own puzzle. Having realized all this, I really believe that I won't travel down such a destructive path again because all I have to do is remember my H's opinion of me is the only one that counts. Everyone else can go suck raw eggs.

BH Cee64D - 48
WW (me) - 49

All affairs are variations on a theme. No one has 'Beethoven's 5th' to everyone else's 'Chopsticks'.

Posts: 5832 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: A better place
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Member # 12002
Default  Posted: 11:52 AM, February 2nd (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First of all I would like to Thank all of the WS for the time and really helps.

I had a big trigger this morning. H always calls me when I am on my way to work as he is just getting off work..

Yesterday he talked about going by the gym to work out on the way home..I was okay with that until this morning I asked if he was going to the gym and he said no that he was going home and was planning on going tomorrow..

The thing is OW had surgery last Thursday--she has cancer for the third time although I don't know what this surgery was for. She stayed overnight and came home Friday afternoon. I received this info inadvertently thru my son who is friends with one of her sons. Seems like OW is in alot of pain as her son mentioned that she was in alot of pain and high off the pain meds when she came home.

She has not logged into her MS account since 1/27 when her mood said that she was disappointed--don't know if this is from having to have surgery again or if my H told her he could not see her prior to her surgery...

Anyway this morning when he said he was going home this became a trigger for me as when he goes home he always goes on his computer and communicates with her --whether it's to setup a meet or just to do the daily communication thing (BTW--he never goes on his computer when I am home or on the weekends when we are off--I know this cause I always turn the power cord a certain way during the week and can see when it's not in the position I put it in)
My first thought this morning was he was going to go home and get on his computer to email her and see how she was doing cause I don't think that he has communicated with her since Wed of last week...

I do know from checking MS this morning that she has logged into MS this morning and her mood is sore and her logline says she is in alot of pain...

What hurts me the most is the emotional attachment he has made--I don't know if it's because she has cancer--she has had cancer since 2001 off and one, had breast reconstruction and has recently found another lump above her implant... or if he has really deep feelings and just won't tell me--he has never admitted to loving her. Says that he would never leave me for her..

Is the cancer tying him to her? I know he feels bad about her situation but this LTA has just taken everything I have..

I know that I need to leave but can't right now for house/kids/finances--trying to pay off debt so that if it comes to that I can support myself and kids.. trying 180 but even that is hard when I want my marriage to work---don't want to bring up OW condition or the fact that I know about her recent surgery and that I suspect he went home to contact her--just starts another argument--please give me advice on what to do? Can someone explain to me what to do other than leaving which is not an option for me right now?
Thanks always for your help and understanding...

Me: BS
Him: WS LTA 6+ yrs
OW: Skank Company HO
Divorce filed 4-5-11
WH served on 4-6-11 with D papers and NC order.
Divorced: 4/20/12

Posts: 1114 | Registered: Sep 2006 | From: Washington State
♀ Member
Member # 20943
Default  Posted: 1:51 PM, February 2nd (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a question for the WS (hopefully it has not already been asked and I missed it):

Did you continually push your BS to 'move on and find someone' to ease the guilt of leaving?

Thanks in advance.

Humble by history, sadden by memorials, grateful to friends.

Posts: 2588 | Registered: Sep 2008 | From: California
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Member # 22709
Default  Posted: 3:13 AM, February 3rd (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

2 questions..

1. Have any of you WS's been cheated on in the past? How did this affect your R with your BS? How did it affect the unfolding of your A? And anything else you want to add related to this topic.

2. At the time when you were first "falling" into your A, is there anything your BS could have said or done to stop it in its tracks?

Posts: 4 | Registered: Feb 2009
♀ Member
Member # 22577
Default  Posted: 9:24 AM, February 3rd (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Its been a month since dday.... My WH has been great... trying everything he can to show me how sorry he really is... He was with the OW for a month... First two weeks talking. Next week and a half dating and had sex twice... last week trying to break it off with her without her getting mad and me finding out. Said he felt so guilty he had to end it... I read these things about the fog that you were in and stuff... first how do you know that your WS is out of the fog? What I'm scared of is that even though he seems truly sorry... I believe he is truly sorry... is that he could see her again. I mean now he tells me he wishes he never met her. ANd I have talked to her and she thought we were seperated and getting a divorce and she said she wants nothing to do with him. I'm scared to think... what if he contacts her again or something... so could some WS's tell me what they think please. You can private message me too. Thanks.

D-Day 12/31/08
2nd D-Day 7/15/10

Filed for divorce Aug 2011
Final hearing set for Feb 2011

I could never picture my life without him... Now I can't picture having spent the rest of my life with him.

Posts: 405 | Registered: Jan 2009
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Member # 8291
Default  Posted: 9:28 AM, February 3rd (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For those who have been at this for a long time now and are still together with their BS's.......How many days, months, or years did it take to actually get OVER the op? And did, or do you still think of that person when you have sex with your BS?

Posts: 2390 | Registered: Sep 2005
♂ Member
Member # 22240
Default  Posted: 12:12 PM, February 3rd (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If you got pregnant during your affair, from the affair partner...would you tell your BS after he learned about the affair.
Even if it happened a year prior.
I ask this, because I think my WW may have been pregnant.
It drives me crazy.
She lied about so much smaller things post D-day, I can't imagine her admitting it.

Posts: 548 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Central NJ
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Member # 10149
Default  Posted: 5:51 PM, February 3rd (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am a BS who has a friend that is a WS. She refuses to join here, but feels my judgement is clouded by my own situation. So I am posting here in an effort to see if she is right.
Brief summary of the situation. She's married and had a 5 month physical affair with a OMM. He promised her the world, was convinced when his wife found out she would demand a divorce, he even used the term "soul mates" with her. She believed everything he said and promised.

A was found out by her BS. He demanded for OMM to cease contact and gave him time to tell his BW. OMM did cease contact immediately, but never told BW anything. BH did tell OMM's BW of the A.

Five more months pass without word from OMM. One day out of the blue he contacts friend (OMM) at her place of employment. They spoke for awhile...he kept in minimal contact for about 6 weeks through friends via TM (I would say there were a total of 10 times in those 6 weeks he sent TMs, IF that many...I am being generous). In the messages he would say very little, but he would mention he would call her later, then he wouldn't call. He would say he was going to stop by her place of work, then didn't.

The last message OMW sent to him was sort of asking what is going on and that she would understand if he just wanted to let her go. That was about three weeks ago. OMM never responded to this.

We are now almost nine months out from d-day, with about a 6 week period of recontact from OMM. He is still living with his wife, but during those six weeks he made it seem divorce was a blink away.

Now she is wanting to send another message. I have said let it go, he doesn't want contact with you.

OMW's view is that he hasn't said good-bye so he would be happy to see a message.


[This message edited by JustPatty at 5:52 PM, February 3rd (Tuesday)]

Various D-Days beginning 10/04

Posts: 335 | Registered: Mar 2006
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Member # 19714
Default  Posted: 6:32 PM, February 3rd (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well - who knows how far out I am with all the False R etc., but we continue to have difficulty relating to each other.

We are both in IC & MC.

My question...I asked my FWH today - what his understanding of why it happened. He said that he had stuffed a lot of anger at me & when she came along and propositioned him - it was basically a F*&^ you to me. That's why the first A happened and also why the second A happened.

Is this possibly a reason????? Why don't I believe it totally.

He says the only thing in the way of us being fully reconciled is time. I need him to help me.

Basically he said that he's not going to stuff his anger anymore.

[This message edited by roccodom at 8:10 PM, February 3rd (Tuesday)]

BS - me (45) WS - him (45)
married 16 yrs (DS 11yrs, DD 9yrs)
#1 PA - DDay 12/97
#2 PA DDay 5/08
#3 PA DDay 2/12
Trying R
Buddhism teaches that a craving for things outside ourselves causes an unhappy and pointless search for security.

Posts: 789 | Registered: May 2008 | From: MO
♀ Member
Member # 22577
Default  Posted: 7:32 PM, February 3rd (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If a WS would please take time to answer a question I posted earlier... It would be greatly appreciated... thanks

D-Day 12/31/08
2nd D-Day 7/15/10

Filed for divorce Aug 2011
Final hearing set for Feb 2011

I could never picture my life without him... Now I can't picture having spent the rest of my life with him.

Posts: 405 | Registered: Jan 2009
♂ Member
Member # 22260
Default  Posted: 8:01 PM, February 3rd (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


The only way you can heal is if your WS agrees and commits to NC. WS may or may not feel the need to "care" for OP, but that is not WS responsibility period. Even if you are looking to leave, WS has to take this seriously. OP has a family and your WS needs to unconditionally accept responsibility to complete disconnect from that family (which is not his). And completely connect to the family that you provide.

I advise that you let him know that you are planning on leaving or asking him to leave if he does not NC right away...then implement 180. Just because you live in the same house, it does not mean that you have to be in communication. WS needs a wake up call and needs to stop cake eating (or at least get off the fence) one way or the other.

my heart goes out to you.

Me - feelssobad - recovering WH
BW - thisistough
D-Day - December 23, 2008
Married - 5 yrs
Together - 8 yrs
Filed for divorce right away; Final in about a month. BW has given up on us. She has asked me to move on. Move on to where?

Posts: 72 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Wisconsin
♂ Member
Member # 22260
Default  Posted: 8:09 PM, February 3rd (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


My thinking is that WS is not "getting it". The anger is not at you but at something inside of WS. If WS is in IC, it is not working and time to switch to someone who is going to make WS address issues.

There is no acceptable reason for an A and your WS is not taking responsibility or owning up to it.

Being new and just over my A and dday...I am terified of just about everything that I, other WS and especially BS' go through. None the less, you may want to look at the infamous 180 that is described in the healing library.

There is no reason any BS (unless we are talking really dangerous or disturbed individuals) should even been asked to be responsible for a WS choice to be involved in an A.

It is not your fault. Our behavior is our own and our choices are made by us. period.

You are in the right, your WS is in the wrong.

Me - feelssobad - recovering WH
BW - thisistough
D-Day - December 23, 2008
Married - 5 yrs
Together - 8 yrs
Filed for divorce right away; Final in about a month. BW has given up on us. She has asked me to move on. Move on to where?

Posts: 72 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Wisconsin
♂ Member
Member # 22260
Default  Posted: 8:45 PM, February 3rd (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


The question you have is complex, perhaps that is why there have been no answers. I am not sure how either the WS or the BS knows they are out of the fog. My fog is pretty much lifted a month after dday; but the root cause of my A was stemming from my using guilt inducing activities to lift myself out of the mild depression I have apparently suffered with my entire adult life. I can honestly say that I still had feelings which drew me toward the OP until I completely opened up and was honest with myself (which took about a month) as to why I chose to have the A and how I was the responsible party for the damage it caused. I still have to work with OP for a couple more months (due to my contract), but now I see a very hurt person who (without the brain-chemical cocktail effect of the A) is clearly not the one I should spend my life with.

Because I am taking NC completely seriously, I will make sure that I do not interact with OP beyond minimal job requirements again (I actually quit my job to prove to my BS that I want to be with her, but my IC made my having to stay at the same company and having to deal with the OP and those I work with a means of accelerating my therapy – which has also not been very good for moving forward on healing the wounds of the A).

I also wish I had never met the OP and I REALLY wish that I had run to my wife when I knew I was starting to feel “too good”. On the other hand, OP is just another person who, I would have worked with had I not gotten into an A…so the meeting is not really the cause of the A. But by not having met, the A might have been avoided.

For me, the missing piece was not getting help for the many years that even a casual outside observer would have understood that I needed it. My wife knew something was wrong (because I have had significant spending, hording, lying, and online “virtual dating” issues), but she loved me too much to see that I was a “piece of work”. I inherently knew that other people did not feel the need to purchase something in case they might need it someday, and was always surprised when I would lie when the truth was usually the easier and less confrontational path. But I never really KNEW how messed up I was, nor how little expense (relative to a huge spending problem) would have been required to get me beyond my issues. I was using self-defeating and other behaviors to sabotage the best things and people in my life…perhaps as a cry for help perhaps just to feel the power resulting from subconsciously ruining something extremely valuable…(I honestly don’t know…but I am going to find out).

I think you are right to be concerned and I think it might be best for both of you to sit down (holding hands across the table if you are ready) and say, “I need you to not be defensive and to not lie to me right now…I have a concern that is eating at me and I need to have you hear it…I am afraid that you will go back to the other person and it is frightens me. (wait so that it sinks in for both of you and then)…what will you do to help me not be afraid.”

See where that takes you.

Best of luck.

Me - feelssobad - recovering WH
BW - thisistough
D-Day - December 23, 2008
Married - 5 yrs
Together - 8 yrs
Filed for divorce right away; Final in about a month. BW has given up on us. She has asked me to move on. Move on to where?

Posts: 72 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Wisconsin
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